BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 83 - AVS Forum
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post #2461 of 2862 Old 03-29-2012, 10:59 PM
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But mine does go up to 11...
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post #2462 of 2862 Old 03-30-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralSpecific5 View Post

But mine does go up to 11...

I don't even know what mine goes up to or what number it is set at. LOL--I think around 9 to 9:30 o'clock on the dial, but I don't know the number.

I just configure the sub gain so that the room correction software ends up around -3db to 0db for the receiver, then bump it up a couple db on the receiver (I like it a little hot). That -3db to 0db practice is supposed to best match the sub gain sensitivity for the receiver.

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post #2463 of 2862 Old 04-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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My room is actually a 10x12 as well, and I'm loving every bit of this subwoofer. Because it is such a small room, it gives me flexibility over the output of the subwoofer--meaning I can keep it turned down to a modest level or completely over-power my room if I want to
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post #2464 of 2862 Old 04-02-2012, 12:22 PM
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My new BIC F-12 will be here tomorrow, can't wait to get it hooked up so I can test it out!


Denon AVR-2802(IIRC)
Mains - Polk RT800i
Center - Polk CS400i
Surrounds - Polk RT35i
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post #2465 of 2862 Old 04-03-2012, 11:22 AM
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I have a few questions. I've had my BIC F-12 for a month or so now and I've been pretty happy with it. Currently I have it in the corner of my living room in a SW - L - C - R setup. I noticed I was getting quite a bit of rattle from the windows and even some of the plastic on the speaker framing so it got me thinking about sub placement.

I noticed walking into the room that the bass is much bigger if you are standing in the direct opposite corner of the room. After doing some reading, this is normal and why some people feel a sub in the corner is not the best route.

In the Denon manual for my sub, they recommend a L-SW-C-R setup.

I'm not a fan visually of how that looks with having a big gap between the right speaker, but if it leads to better sound then I'll do it. I've also seen people say instead of a corner, to have it on the outside wall.

Where do you guys have your F-12 sitting and why?
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post #2466 of 2862 Old 04-03-2012, 12:00 PM
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Here's a drawing (with labeled and accurate dimensions) of our media room. Seating is directly across from the media stand, of course.

I chose the location based on sound quality, then aesthetics. My second choice was along the 11'6" wall, but the current location sounded a bit better. Probably because it was too close to my chair on the other wall!
LL
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post #2467 of 2862 Old 04-03-2012, 06:31 PM
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Got my F12 setup today and man does it sound good!

I set the gain to 3 and preformed the level test and only had to turn the gain up between 3 and 4 to get 75db with the trim set to +/-0db in my receiver.
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post #2468 of 2862 Old 04-04-2012, 05:06 PM
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After only one day of F12 use my receiver stopped working, not a clue whats wrong but the "digital" light on the display is blinking and there is no sound coming from the speakers, not even the volume level test tones produce sound.

The Denon AVR-2802 is about 10 yr's old but used very little in that time, I guess I'll be getting a new receiver.

What's the general opinion of the Denon AVR-1712?
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post #2469 of 2862 Old 04-04-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWP View Post

What's the general opinion of the Denon AVR-1712?

No experience with the 1712, but I have a 2112 which is similar but has a few more features, and I really like it. Read the first few posts in the Denon AVR XX12 thread on the Amps and Receivers page here to get a ton of information about the 1712 and to compare it with other Denons to see if it is the best fit for your needs.
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post #2470 of 2862 Old 04-04-2012, 08:36 PM
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audyssey set my f12 to -2.5 at about 1 gain on the sub. wanted more bass so i upped the level from the denon to +1

i still want more bass (it doesnt exactly shake my room like many say theirs does so im thinking something is wrong). i dont want to increase the gain on the sub as to not mess with the audyssey filters.

id like to try +2 or maybe even +3, but dont want to push my luck. how much higher can i raise the sub level on the denon receiver without damaging the sub?

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post #2471 of 2862 Old 04-05-2012, 01:47 AM
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I think people are relying to much on the auto setup for setting speaker levels, especially for the sub, after I get my new receiver I will run the auto level setup and then verify levels with my db meter and adjust to 75 db before running the room correction that way I know the volume is to my liking.
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post #2472 of 2862 Old 04-05-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsan4610 View Post

I have a few questions. I've had my BIC F-12 for a month or so now and I've been pretty happy with it. Currently I have it in the corner of my living room in a SW - L - C - R setup. I noticed I was getting quite a bit of rattle from the windows and even some of the plastic on the speaker framing so it got me thinking about sub placement.

I noticed walking into the room that the bass is much bigger if you are standing in the direct opposite corner of the room. After doing some reading, this is normal and why some people feel a sub in the corner is not the best route.

In the Denon manual for my sub, they recommend a L-SW-C-R setup.

I'm not a fan visually of how that looks with having a big gap between the right speaker, but if it leads to better sound then I'll do it. I've also seen people say instead of a corner, to have it on the outside wall.

Where do you guys have your F-12 sitting and why?

I myself have the F12 sitting in between the FL and the C speakers, simply because if I put it in the corner it will be partially blocked by a desk. IMHO, I feel like I get better sound from the F12 when the driver is pointing at me and not being blocked by furniture.

The easiest thing to do would be to try the sub crawl to find out where it sounds best. Put the sub where you will be sitting when watching movies, playing games etc. and play some music or a movie with heavy bass. Then literally crawl around the corners of the room and find out where the bass sounds the best to you. That is where the sub should go for the optimal sound.
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post #2473 of 2862 Old 04-05-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradymartin View Post

audyssey set my f12 to -2.5 at about 1 gain on the sub. wanted more bass so i upped the level from the denon to +1

i still want more bass (it doesnt exactly shake my room like many say theirs does so im thinking something is wrong). i dont want to increase the gain on the sub as to not mess with the audyssey filters.

id like to try +2 or maybe even +3, but dont want to push my luck. how much higher can i raise the sub level on the denon receiver without damaging the sub?

If you only have the gain on the sub at 1, then the F12 definitely has much more to offer for you. I normally have my receiver set at 0db for the sub, and the gain on the back of the sub around the 9 or 10 o'clock position (3 or 4) depending on if I am playing games or watching movies. I do find that I need to turn it up slightly more for music, but that is probably just the way certain music is recorded.

As for how much you can push the sub, the most I have done was 3db on the receiver and about 4.5 gain on the sub while watching the earthquake scene in War of the Worlds at around the 20 min mark. Also turning up the master volume on the receiver will also obviously increase the volume of the sub as well. If I turn up the master volume higher while watching a movie, I will typically have to turn down the sub volume so it is not overpowering. Hope that helps!
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post #2474 of 2862 Old 04-05-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWP View Post

I think people are relying to much on the auto setup for setting speaker levels, especially for the sub, after I get my new receiver I will run the auto level setup and then verify levels with my db meter and adjust to 75 db before running the room correction that way I know the volume is to my liking.

Thanks you very much! I think I've said this a few times.

If the volume on the back of the F12 needs to be set to 3 or 4 or 5, to make it sound good for your room then so be it. Run your AVR's EQ or room correction and then go in to your AVR's settings and adjust it to your liking. People seem to be so fixated on running the EQ/room correction over and over and never get round to enjoying their system.
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post #2475 of 2862 Old 04-05-2012, 06:50 PM
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Hi all, been reading alot around here on subs, but this is my first post. After reading all the comments mostly positive some negative on the BIC F12 I decided to go for it. I ordered two off Amazon this morning - $376 delivered. Will post back with impressions and in room measurements when I get them. Thanks for a great thread.
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post #2476 of 2862 Old 04-05-2012, 10:45 PM
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I gotta say, you guys that are ordering two, do you have a large room to fill? Mine is in a room 14 x 20 with a cathedral ceiling and it fills my room with easy. I have the receiver set at -2 and the gain on the sub at 4. Sometimes I'll turn it up to 5 on certain movies but sometimes I have to back it off to 3 so my windows don't rattle loose!


I do really love this sub. It's my first real sub and for what I paid I am very happy with it.
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post #2477 of 2862 Old 04-06-2012, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intimdtr77 View Post

I gotta say, you guys that are ordering two, do you have a large room to fill? Mine is in a room 14 x 20 with a cathedral ceiling and it fills my room with easy. I have the receiver set at -2 and the gain on the sub at 4. Sometimes I'll turn it up to 5 on certain movies but sometimes I have to back it off to 3 so my windows don't rattle loose!


I do really love this sub. It's my first real sub and for what I paid I am very happy with it.

I second that. My room is even bigger, totally open concept and 10' ceiling and am happy with one. Two might be better but really no need, IMHO, in my space. Maybe it's the 2x8"and 2x10"woofers in my mains and surrounds that fills my space, I have everything set to "large," so they're all working, although nothing below 80hz goes to them all four are capable of 20hz. "7 channel enhanced" sounds mind blowing when listening to music.
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post #2478 of 2862 Old 04-06-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intimdtr77 View Post

I gotta say, you guys that are ordering two, do you have a large room to fill?

The benefit is more than just additional output. Two subs (if well placed) can smooth the bass response in the room. Lot of people love dual subs for this reason.

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post #2479 of 2862 Old 04-06-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post


I second that. My room is even bigger, totally open concept and 10' ceiling and am happy with one. Two might be better but really no need, IMHO, in my space. Maybe it's the 2x8"and 2x10"woofers in my mains and surrounds that fills my space, I have everything set to "large," so they're all working, although nothing below 80hz goes to them all four are capable of 20hz. "7 channel enhanced" sounds mind blowing when listening to music.

I confess, I have never completely understood this but if all your speakers are set to Large, isn't the only thing going to the sub whatever might (or might not) be encoded in the LFE ???
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post #2480 of 2862 Old 04-06-2012, 02:18 PM
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boy just hooked one of them up she sounds great !!!!
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post #2481 of 2862 Old 04-06-2012, 06:32 PM
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Yes I am not after more output. Just hoping to balance out the response a bit. I did some investigating with two smaller subs I currently have and two definitely balanced out the sound. So I know I will be getting more output from even 1 BIC but figured at that price I would try 2.
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post #2482 of 2862 Old 04-06-2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal516 View Post

I confess, I have never completely understood this but if all your speakers are set to Large, isn't the only thing going to the sub whatever might (or might not) be encoded in the LFE ???

Whatever is 80hz and below plus LFE
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post #2483 of 2862 Old 04-07-2012, 01:05 PM
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Whatever is 80hz and below plus LFE

Ahhhh ... I see ... I guess. On my AVR (Onkyo 709) you can set each speaker to a specific crossover (i.e., 80hz) or you can set them to Large, but you can't do both. So, does your AVR send 80hz and lower to the sub AND the speakers set at large?
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post #2484 of 2862 Old 04-07-2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal516 View Post

Ahhhh ... I see ... I guess. On my AVR (Onkyo 709) you can set each speaker to a specific crossover (i.e., 80hz) or you can set them to Large, but you can't do both. So, does your AVR send 80hz and lower to the sub AND the speakers set at large?

Right Yes And no
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post #2485 of 2862 Old 04-16-2012, 08:48 AM
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I have a question about gain vs. receiver.

When I originally did my auto-calibration, I set the sub to level 3 gain and the receiver registered at -2.5db.

I ended up increasing the gain on my sub to 4 and bumping the receiver to +2db.

Is it better to leave the receiver at what it calibrated and increase the gain on the sub more or keep the gain low and increase the sub?

Which is better and why? Is there even a good answer?
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post #2486 of 2862 Old 04-16-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by danielsan4610 View Post

Is it better to leave the receiver at what it calibrated and increase the gain on the sub more or keep the gain low and increase the sub?

Which is better and why? Is there even a good answer?

Most people recommend turning up the channel level on the receiver. The reason being is that the sub dial can be so sensitive that, should you want to change it again, it's difficult to adjust the gain on the sub up and down and consistently get it back to the exact same setting. It's just less precise.

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post #2487 of 2862 Old 04-30-2012, 08:06 AM
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I have a question about installation of this subwoofer (I have one one order from Amazon). This will be my first powered subwoofer. My old one is a passive one in which I connected the speaker out terminals to the SW and the SW then connects to my front speakers.

I understand that I will connect the subwoofer out from my receiver to the subwoofer, and I'll run Audissey again with the Denon 1612. I understand that when I watch Blu-rays and DVDs, the LFE will be output to the subwoofer. My question is about music. I play all my redbook CDs with a CD player connected with an optical cable to the receiver. I have seen posts in which some people say they have no sound from the sub if they play music this way. Does that mean I still have to connect the speaker wires the way I do on my old subwoofer? Or do I set it to Pro-Logic instead of 5.1? Or should it work for CDs the same way it will for 5.1 sound?
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post #2488 of 2862 Old 04-30-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18 Brumaire View Post

I have a question about installation of this subwoofer (I have one one order from Amazon). This will be my first powered subwoofer. My old one is a passive one in which I connected the speaker out terminals to the SW and the SW then connects to my front speakers.

I understand that I will connect the subwoofer out from my receiver to the subwoofer, and I'll run Audissey again with the Denon 1612. I understand that when I watch Blu-rays and DVDs, the LFE will be output to the subwoofer. My question is about music. I play all my redbook CDs with a CD player connected with an optical cable to the receiver. I have seen posts in which some people say they have no sound from the sub if they play music this way. Does that mean I still have to connect the speaker wires the way I do on my old subwoofer? Or do I set it to Pro-Logic instead of 5.1? Or should it work for CDs the same way it will for 5.1 sound?

I set the size of my mains to "small", according to an Onkyo 509. Then when listening to music, the subwoofer is active.
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post #2489 of 2862 Old 04-30-2012, 10:35 AM
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I am currently set to "large", as the receiver does not know I have a subwoofer. Yes, I will be changing my speakers to "small" once the subwoofer is in.
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post #2490 of 2862 Old 04-30-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18 Brumaire View Post

I am currently set to "large", as the receiver does not know I have a subwoofer. Yes, I will be changing my speakers to "small" once the subwoofer is in.

Then you'll be good to go. IIRC, you'll just need to go into the Denon's GUI menu to set up 2-channel sources to include your sub and set your mains as "small" there also. You will not need to make any additional connections between your sub and AVR, and you will not need to change settings on the sub when you switch sources.
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