BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 02:28 PM
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i hope that 254 is better than the 247.... that was the biggest pile of junk i've ever purchased.

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post #242 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 03:38 PM
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thanks for the clarification Danielson99 - I did plug it in so I should of realized that was the wrong phase - 'connect' (with one cord) would perhaps be more correct...!

Any recomendations for sub cords? - I saw an audioquest class A subwoofer cable on amazon and more expensive ones... Is the ground attachment necessary? -I also saw some on bluejeans cable(without an (external?) ground) - and I'm impressed with the HDMI cords I got on that site...

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post #243 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formulanerd View Post

i hope that 254 is better than the 247.... that was the biggest pile of junk i've ever purchased.

Actually the 247 as it's sold now, refurbished direct from HK with the latest firmware is a great receiver and at the price it goes for on the ebay auctions....a steal. I've purchased several for installs I've done with no reported issues. HK seems to take some time to get the models right, many new released have more than the normal amount of issues but as time goes on they seem to iron out the issues and it's a solid product. I personally feel better about buying HK refubished than I do new, they are much more reliable with less issues and cheaper, which is always a plus.
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post #244 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyerob View Post

thanks for the clarification Danielson99 - I did plug it in so I should of realized that was the wrong phase - 'connect' (with one cord) would perhaps be more correct...!

Any recomendations for sub cords? - I saw an audioquest class A subwoofer cable on amazon and more expensive ones... Is the ground attachment necessary? -I also saw some on bluejeans cable(without an (external?) ground) - and I'm impressed with the HDMI cords I got on that site...

Any sub cable from monoprice is fine, they are cheap and quality cables. Don't get caught up in the brand name theories, a quality cable is a quality cable no matter if it has Monster on the lablel or Generic.
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post #245 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

Actually the 247 as it's sold now, refurbished direct from HK with the latest firmware is a great receiver and at the price it goes for on the ebay auctions....a steal. I've purchased several for installs I've done with no reported issues. HK seems to take some time to get the models right, many new released have more than the normal amount of issues but as time goes on they seem to iron out the issues and it's a solid product. I personally feel better about buying HK refubished than I do new, they are much more reliable with less issues and cheaper, which is always a plus.

mine was a refurb (h/k ebay, excellent price), about 6 months ago with "all the fixes and latest firmware"

it was still a pile of junk.... my 663 wasnt much more $$$ and it's just an all around more capable piece of equipment.

edit: checked the old thread, i thought maybe they did eventually get the issues fixed.... doesnt look that way. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...868358&page=91

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post #246 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 05:12 PM
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You got a bad one, it happens with any brand. Anyway, I'm ordering a PA-120 tonight. $229 w/free shipping. I've seen the F12 in stock for as low as $168 right now, $175 at twisted sister electronics and in stock there too.
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post #247 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

You got a bad one, it happens with any brand. Anyway, I'm ordering a PA-120 tonight. $229 w/free shipping. I've seen the F12 in stock for as low as $168 right now, $175 at twisted sister electronics and in stock there too.

lol, did you click the link? EVERYONE got a bad "one"

i know a % of failures are to be expected from every company... i won the auction and asked QC to specifically inspect it to make sure it wasnt plagued with HDMI sparkles like everyone elses, they said all refurbs are 100% tested and etc.... then they ship me a unit with HDMI sparkles.

while it does make me feel really bad about H/K, i wasn't warning anyone about them, just the 247/347.... pony up and at least get the _54



good pricing on the F12... what makes you want to shell out more on the PA-120? i've been going back and forth with many options... h100, pl200, pa-120, vk12, f12.... etc.... i think i may just pony up and order an eD A2-300

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post #248 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 05:23 PM
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Yep, that's what I did and got the 254. Haven't had any issues yet and I have to say...awesome looking, awesome GUI and real easy to setup. The sound quality goes without saying
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post #249 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 06:10 PM
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Don't know about Danielson, but I'm going with the PA-120 as I live in Las Vegas and can pick it up without shipping charges ($200 total), which puts it virtually at the same price as the F12. Pa-120 > F12 due to:

200w vs 150w
23Hz tested vs 25Hz advertised
58lbs vs 42lbs
Ability to daisy chain another sub (LFE out on sub)
Larger woofer surface area (the Bic has a wide foam surround)

So for basically the same price, the PA, at least on paper looks to be the better buy. I don't know of any direct comparisons or reviews, so it's all speculation though.

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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post #250 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formulanerd View Post

good pricing on the F12... what makes you want to shell out more on the PA-120? i've been going back and forth with many options... h100, pl200, pa-120, vk12, f12.... etc.... i think i may just pony up and order an eD A2-300

For the same reasons just listed by Spartacus and also because the top is gloss black

I'll probably be buying the F12 soon anyway so it's not like it really matters.
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post #251 of 2844 Old 04-14-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

For the same reasons just listed by Spartacus and also because the top is gloss black

Oh snap, I forgot about the glossy top!

Let us know if you get both the PA and F12 and can write up a comparison.

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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post #252 of 2844 Old 04-15-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusMagnus View Post

On my current watch list:

Bic F12: 150w RMS/12"/25Hz/42lbs/~$200 shipped
PA-120: 200w RMS/12"/24Hz/60lbs/~$230 shipped
tSc T250: 250w RMS/10"/23Hz/31lbs/$250 shipped

Compared to a proven performer...
eD A2-300: 250w RMS/12"/18Hz/71lbs/$350 shipped

The Speaker Company's sub is the smallest driver, but has the most power, lowest frequency response and has a rubber surround (not foam). It also weighs significantly less than the other two, which is concerning, so for that reason I'm leaning toward the PA.

Well, after much thought I did indeed decide on the PA-120 and will be picking it up from a local warehouse on Friday for $200- the price of the F12 and the FR of the T250 at twice the weight. I hope I made the right choice...

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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post #253 of 2844 Old 04-15-2009, 10:25 AM
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I think spending $200 on that sub is never going to be a wrong choice assuming it arrives in perfect working condition. All of these subs you have listed are entry level subs that blow HTIB subs away. We can't expect miracles from them but we can expect good amounts of bass...and much much more than what most people are used to.

This is like comparing the garbage entry level computers you can buy from BB or any large store...to custom built ones. For the same amount of money you can build your own computer that will outperform the big store computers offering by miles.

I think you made a great choice. It's not like there is alot of selection...it's really down to a few good subs at this price point. Gotta just go with one and see how it works for you. I'd be willing to bet you'll be very happy. I'll post my impressions of the same sub when I get it too. Might take me a bit longer however...I'm in Canada and have to drive to Washington to get it. No big deal...I visit family there at the same time
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post #254 of 2844 Old 04-17-2009, 06:36 AM
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thanks to everyone for their comments and pics on this thread. After lurking arond the sub threads I thought i "had" to get an svs, or hsu, etc in the $500 range. And I just didn't think my listening style would take advantage of such a higher cost sub. (at least higher cost for me) This sub really looks like the one for me. Does anyone with an AVR with Audeyssey have any further info to share? I have a Denon 789 and was just curious if any settings tend to be really off with Audeyssey and this sub. Looks like I'll crack open the piggy bank and get an order placed on this soon.

thanks -
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post #255 of 2844 Old 04-17-2009, 09:15 AM
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When hooking up the 789 you should read through my setup guide and FAQ; the FAQ especially addresses a few issues/quirks with subs and Audyssey. I don't think the PA-120 has a defeatable crossover, so the sub distance is likely to be reported at several feet longer than the physical distance.

Also read through the Audyssey FAQ:
http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index.html

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

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post #256 of 2844 Old 04-17-2009, 09:39 AM
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thanks for the links batpig -- I've read your denon to english info when I set up my 789. I'll check the other links though too since I will be making a pretty big upgrade from an 8" 50 watt sub up to the most likely F-12. Audessey did what it could with what I had for a sub. When I re-run setup next time with a new sub I just wanted to make sure there wasn't any "gotchas" --- again, thanks for the links
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post #257 of 2844 Old 04-17-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm2112 View Post

thanks to everyone for their comments and pics on this thread. After lurking arond the sub threads I thought i "had" to get an svs, or hsu, etc in the $500 range. And I just didn't think my listening style would take advantage of such a higher cost sub. (at least higher cost for me) This sub really looks like the one for me. Does anyone with an AVR with Audeyssey have any further info to share? I have a Denon 789 and was just curious if any settings tend to be really off with Audeyssey and this sub. Looks like I'll crack open the piggy bank and get an order placed on this soon.

thanks -

I have the F12 connected to the 789 and Audyssey has it spot on. I had an issue when it I first set it up..but that was a subwoofer cable problem. Just make sure you get a good sub cable. I got this one from Monoprice.

The F12 has plenty of output for the price..you will notice a big difference from your 50 watt sub.

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post #258 of 2844 Old 04-20-2009, 06:45 AM
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The F12 has plenty of output for the price..you will notice a big difference from your 50 watt sub.[/quote]

So you got the F12... Where from, how much? How is it performing for you? Does it have enough bass for you? I have one, think it's the 'bee's knee's' tons of bass, but I haven't seen many posts here from new F12 owners reporting their findings/opinions.
I gave mine a 7 hour workout Friday, had it cranked while doing yard work then enjoyed some good old rock I haven't listened to for years. It brings a whole new dimension to music that I never expected. Like I said it was cranked for a long time, amp was HOT, AVR was HOT but everything sounded great and the F12 never missed a beat. Completely happy with it! And that's not 'ignorance is bliss,' my buddy came over, hooked up a whack of stuff to his lap top and checked the output with a mic, a meter and a special cd for calibrating. He moved my F12 about 6 inches further away from the wall and said that it was optimal for my room! Can't even notice a difference as it was already away from the wall. Oh well, he's an expert, and he wasn't even upset that I didn't buy a sub from him.
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post #259 of 2844 Old 04-20-2009, 03:55 PM
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Question F12 owners: What kind of feet are included with the sub? I'm working up a review on the PA-120 and would like a reference point.

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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post #260 of 2844 Old 04-20-2009, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusMagnus View Post

Question F12 owners: What kind of feet are included with the sub? I'm working up a review on the PA-120 and would like a reference point.

The feet are a solid rubber compound, roughly 1 inch thick and 2 inches wide, held in place with a screw in the centre. No movement across the floor like I have read some do.
Off the topic of your question, I have noticed over the last couple of weeks, many of the pictures hanging on the walls in my home have been needing adjustment, they seem to be moving. Finally figured out why...
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post #261 of 2844 Old 04-20-2009, 10:24 PM
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Thanks Bic. It appears the F12 has better feet than the 120, though neither have "pro" spikes...

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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post #262 of 2844 Old 04-21-2009, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusMagnus View Post

Thanks Bic. It appears the F12 has better feet than the 120, though neither have "pro" spikes...

I'm glad it didn't come with spikes, I have hardwood.
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post #263 of 2844 Old 04-21-2009, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

I'm glad it didn't come with spikes, I have hardwood.

Yeah, me too, but either way the sticky backed foam pads that came with the PA-120 leave a little to be desired... Luckily that seems to be the biggest issue in build quality.

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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post #264 of 2844 Old 04-21-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusMagnus View Post

Yeah, me too, but either way the sticky backed foam pads that came with the PA-120 leave a little to be desired... Luckily that seems to be the biggest issue in build quality.

I'd send it back if I was you, lol.

How is it, don't recall seeing your opinion/review on your new sub.

I had my first neighbour complaint yesterday, yeh! Had it cranked with some serious bass tunes and the back window open. My yard is fairly large, lots of distance from neighbours on both sides but he had to wine. I told him if it's that loud after 11pm to call the police.
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post #265 of 2844 Old 04-21-2009, 11:04 AM
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Like I said, the feet are the only mark against the PA in terms of build quality and it's a pretty minor issue. All subs in this price tier will have to cut some corners in order to make budget, so I'd rather it be the feet than another component...

As for my review, it's coming. I've begun writing it up, but it probably won't be finished and posted for another day or so. I will say this, the PA unit is impressive. It's the price of the F12 with the specs, fit and finish of the H-100. You'll have to look out for Danielson's comparison however as he purchased both (or will soon).

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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post #266 of 2844 Old 04-22-2009, 03:39 AM
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I just set up my new F12, and it is amazing. Hooked up to a HK254, in a 5.1 system. I am very happy with it. Played Quantum of Solace, great DTS track, and it did not disappoint.
Also very good service from Twisted Sister.com
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post #267 of 2844 Old 04-23-2009, 06:44 PM
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I just got it now!!! So that's (March 12 - April 23rd)...too many days!!

But I don't care because I wouldn't have set it up until next week. The great things are the following

1- i have never had a sub...and well, this is a good start!
2- it's not broken

but best of all

3- I payed no duty/taxes!!!!!


But beware: if anyone is from canada, or anywhere really, just never order from thetwistergroup.com...it took them 1 month exactly to ship my item.

Can't wait to set it up soon.
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post #268 of 2844 Old 04-24-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewow View Post

I just got it now!!! So that's (March 12 - April 23rd)...too many days!!

But I don't care because I wouldn't have set it up until next week. The great things are the following

1- i have never had a sub...and well, this is a good start!
2- it's not broken

but best of all

3- I payed no duty/taxes!!!!!


But beware: if anyone is from canada, or anywhere really, just never order from thetwistergroup.com...it took them 1 month exactly to ship my item.

Can't wait to set it up soon.

Why can't you set it up till next week? I couldn't wait to get my hooked up, had the cable plugged in to the AVR ready to go.

'A good start' I think once you hook it up you'll find it's more than just a good start!

Great that you didn't pay any extra fee's, did twister indicate a value of less than $20?

Cangrats and enjoy!
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post #269 of 2844 Old 04-24-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

Why can't you set it up till next week? I couldn't wait to get my hooked up, had the cable plugged in to the AVR ready to go.

'A good start' I think once you hook it up you'll find it's more than just a good start!

Great that you didn't pay any extra fee's, did twister indicate a value of less than $20?

Cangrats and enjoy!

i just finished my bachelors 1 hr ago lol, and basically i was waiting for that so that i can set everything up. Also, I need to go pick up my speakers from the states, and I will be doing that thursday. So I'll be setting everything up around that time.

I don't know why I payed nothing to be honest...there was no markings of any price anywhere...but I can't complain!!!

I'll be sure to post impressions after I set stuff up. This may sound very weird, but I can't wait to clean the mess that is my room and re-arrange everything...It's a stable right now
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post #270 of 2844 Old 04-24-2009, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gewow View Post

i just finished my bachelors 1 hr ago lol, and basically i was waiting for that so that i can set everything up. Also, I need to go pick up my speakers from the states, and I will be doing that thursday. So I'll be setting everything up around that time.

I don't know why I payed nothing to be honest...there was no markings of any price anywhere...but I can't complain!!!

I'll be sure to post impressions after I set stuff up. This may sound very weird, but I can't wait to clean the mess that is my room and re-arrange everything...It's a stable right now

Ok, I noticed a few grammatical errors and I'm wondering what Bachelor's you finished...was it a Bachelor pad?
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