BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 97 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #2881 of 2893 Old Yesterday, 06:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynomyte View Post
Mine too is pretty low...probably around 2 (I'm not home right now to verify exactly). When I run audessy I adust the gain to get as close to 0db as possible then bump it up +3db in the AVR afterwards. At first I thought this would be too low as well but we have to remember, gain is not volume and when the source material calls for it my F12 answers with thunderous bass even at very low gain settings. You're right though, what sounds best to YOU is what's most important!
Stupid question....what's the difference between gain and volume? And when you say you set it to 2, is that 2 out of 10, or 2 o'clock position?

I had the gain set to the 2 oclock position and the AVR to +9 dB when I had the Polk PSW125. I was surprised I had to set it that high to get decent bass. Then again, I returned that sub and was not impressed at all by it.

My F12 arrives tomorrow or Weds, can't wait!
jeep05 likes this.
CinemaSound7 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2882 of 2893 Old Yesterday, 06:23 PM
Senior Member
 
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Anybody thinking about the F12 should also consider the V-1220 or V-1020. I found both of them to be a better sub than the F12.
MIX_MASTER_ICE is online now  
post #2883 of 2893 Old Yesterday, 06:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tingham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaSound7 View Post
Stupid question....what's the difference between gain and volume? And when you say you set it to 2, is that 2 out of 10, or 2 o'clock position?

I had the gain set to the 2 oclock position and the AVR to +9 dB when I had the Polk PSW125. I was surprised I had to set it that high to get decent bass. Then again, I returned that sub and was not impressed at all by it.

My F12 arrives tomorrow or Weds, can't wait!
The gain is the volume dial on the sub. The original OP was just stating that volume can be loud even at a low gain. Set the sub's volume between the number 2 and 3 on the volume control dial and go from there, not 2 or 3 o'clock. It's not necessary with the BIC to set the volume dial high. Enjoy your new sub...
jeep05 and CinemaSound7 like this.

Go Phillies! Go Eagles! Go Sixers! Go Flyers!
tingham is offline  
post #2884 of 2893 Old Yesterday, 08:05 PM
Senior Member
 
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post
The gain is the volume dial on the sub. The original OP was just stating that volume can be loud even at a low gain. Set the sub's volume between the number 2 and 3 on the volume control dial and go from there, not 2 or 3 o'clock. It's not necessary with the BIC to set the volume dial high. Enjoy your new sub...
The gain control on a sub isn't really the same as a volume control at all. Turning up gain control is increasing the output relative to your input.
MIX_MASTER_ICE is online now  
post #2885 of 2893 Old Today, 06:21 AM
Senior Member
 
jeep05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: N.C.
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaSound7 View Post
Stupid question....what's the difference between gain and volume? And when you say you set it to 2, is that 2 out of 10, or 2 o'clock position?

I had the gain set to the 2 oclock position and the AVR to +9 dB when I had the Polk PSW125. I was surprised I had to set it that high to get decent bass. Then again, I returned that sub and was not impressed at all by it.

My F12 arrives tomorrow or Weds, can't wait!
Congrats on the new toy

As a note on the F12's gain, I set it a 3 and YPAO on my Yamaha set it at "0". That's where I left it and sounds really well for my setup.
CinemaSound7 likes this.
jeep05 is offline  
post #2886 of 2893 Old Today, 06:25 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Anybody thinking about the F12 should also consider the V-1220 or V-1020. I found both of them to be a better sub than the F12.
Elaborate please! I was considering both of those are well but went with the F12 because of the great reviews, popularity, and asthetics.


So I guess bottom line is, play around with the gain vs volume on AVR to find the best sound?
CinemaSound7 is online now  
post #2887 of 2893 Old Today, 06:44 AM
Member
 
ChromeJob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere between 70 and 125 mph
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Download some freq sweeps from audiocheck.net, you can set your subs gain relative to mains quite easily with those. Also helped me pick a cross over point.
CinemaSound7 likes this.

Modest "theater": Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic BDT210, Yamaha RXV775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
ChromeJob is offline  
post #2888 of 2893 Old Today, 09:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Augerhandle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
The gain control on a sub isn't really the same as a volume control at all. Turning up gain control is increasing the output relative to your input.
Actually, it's just the opposite, and you just described a volume control. The amplification in the subwoofer amplifier is constant relative to the input, and the amp is running full out all the time it is on. The gain is controlling the sensitivity of the input to the amplifier. That's why most people only need to turn it up to 2 or 3 on the dial.

"The wise understand by themselves; fools follow the reports of others"-Tibetan Proverb
_________________________________________________
 

Last edited by Augerhandle; Today at 09:33 AM.
Augerhandle is offline  
post #2889 of 2893 Old Today, 09:50 AM
Member
 
rynomyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West Columbia, SC
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaSound7 View Post
Stupid question....what's the difference between gain and volume? And when you say you set it to 2, is that 2 out of 10, or 2 o'clock position?

I had the gain set to the 2 oclock position and the AVR to +9 dB when I had the Polk PSW125. I was surprised I had to set it that high to get decent bass. Then again, I returned that sub and was not impressed at all by it.

My F12 arrives tomorrow or Weds, can't wait!
Yep, I meant the 2 position out of 10...NOT 2 o'clock. I arrived at this position by repeatedly running the first step in the Audyssey set up on my Marantz and adjusting the gain knob until I was able to hit zero on the sub woofer levels within the AVR. I don't think it's necessary to hit exactly zero in the AVR for the initial sub levels but you definitely don't want to be too far from it in either the plus or the minus. The closer you are to zero for the sub the more ability your AVR/Room correction has to make it's adjustments for the sub. And of course feel free to bump it up 3-6 db after calibration from within the AVR to suit your needs! Also, don't adjust the gain on the sub once you have run your calibration...only make adjustments then from within the AVR itself. Hope you enjoy it!

Marantz SR5008
Klipsch RF-82II's - RC-62II - RS-52II's - AW-650's outside
BIC America F12
LG 55LW5600
HTPC Home Built for XBMC & Gaming
rynomyte is offline  
post #2890 of 2893 Old Today, 11:00 AM
Senior Member
 
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Actually, it's just the opposite, and you just described a volume control. The amplification in the subwoofer amplifier is constant relative to the input, and the amp is running full out all the time it is on. The gain is controlling the sensitivity of the input to the amplifier. That's why most people only need to turn it up to 2 or 3 on the dial.
Quote from PSA "A volume control adjusts the output levels. A gain control adjust the output levels *relative* to the input levels."
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/gain-control
MIX_MASTER_ICE is online now  
post #2891 of 2893 Old Today, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Augerhandle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Quote from PSA "A volume control adjusts the output levels. A gain control adjust the output levels *relative* to the input levels."
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/gain-control


From the same link:

Quote:
A volume control adjusts the output levels....all the gain control really does is control the sensitivity of the input (RCA jack or XLR) jack on the subwoofer...The maximum output capabilities of the subwoofer never change.
He is correct in the quote above, which is also what I stated. He contradicts himself when he states "A gain control adjusts the output levels *relative* to the input levels." That just can't be true if "The maximum output capabilities of the subwoofer never change". It adjusts the input relative to the output, which is just the opposite.

An amplifier multiplies the voltage of the input in order to amplify it. The output always uses the same multiplication ratio, and does not change no matter what the input is.

In a receiver, the volume control adjusts the output of the pre-amp section. The amp in the receiver, like all amps, multiplies this by a set value (let's say 10 times) determined by its circuit design. When you use a pre-out jack run to another amp, such as a subwoofer out jack on the receiver, the volume controls that as well. Now let's asume that the subwoofer's amp amplifies twice as much as the receiver's amp (20 times the input signal). This means that the subwoofer would be louder than the rest of the speakers! The gain control allows one to adjust the input (it actually pads it down, with 0 being 100% attenuation and 10 being zero attenuation) so that the sound level matches the rest of the system, and one may then control everything with the receivers volume control, and amplification will be even across all channels. the subwoofer amp is still multiplying 20 times, and the receiver's amp 10 times. That never changes. That is why one never changes the gain setting on an amp after it has been set properly.

"The wise understand by themselves; fools follow the reports of others"-Tibetan Proverb
_________________________________________________
 

Last edited by Augerhandle; Today at 12:07 PM.
Augerhandle is offline  
post #2892 of 2893 Old Today, 12:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynomyte View Post
Yep, I meant the 2 position out of 10...NOT 2 o'clock. I arrived at this position by repeatedly running the first step in the Audyssey set up on my Marantz and adjusting the gain knob until I was able to hit zero on the sub woofer levels within the AVR. I don't think it's necessary to hit exactly zero in the AVR for the initial sub levels but you definitely don't want to be too far from it in either the plus or the minus. The closer you are to zero for the sub the more ability your AVR/Room correction has to make it's adjustments for the sub. And of course feel free to bump it up 3-6 db after calibration from within the AVR to suit your needs! Also, don't adjust the gain on the sub once you have run your calibration...only make adjustments then from within the AVR itself. Hope you enjoy it!

Awesome! Thanks! It just arrived today at work in the mail room. Can't wait to get home haha.

Hoping I have better luck than with the RTR that arrived dead. Fingers crossed!
CinemaSound7 is online now  
post #2893 of 2893 Unread Today, 07:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Have the gain set to 3, AVR set to +3 db.....sounds amazing. love it so far. so much better than the Polk. Jeez what a difference. The Polk sounds like it was made just to be loud and boomy and for people who have never had a sub before to say "Wow!". I watched Blackhawk Down tonight...it is loud when it needs to be, and quiet when it doesn't need to be. Great stuff!
CinemaSound7 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off