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post #1 of 40 Old 03-30-2009, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like they got tired of producing watered down tiny subs.

A new REAL SUBWOOFER from Danley is in the pipes and it looks like it's using a pair of B&C's 21" 21sw150's . It's name is the...

TH221

Looks like it's about -3db at 24hz and -10db at 18hz. It also looks like it's about 103db with 2.83v at 20hz outdoors. It should handle a few thousand watts easily (those big B&C's are no joke). It's rated for 3000w rms.

I'll leave it to you to figure out what all of that means if you were to put this thing in even a very large lossy room...

Me want...

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/inde...2/0/#msg_43300
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post #2 of 40 Old 03-30-2009, 11:36 AM
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Woah!

Oh my...

B-DEAP to the MAX!

Nice find, Ricci.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #3 of 40 Old 03-30-2009, 11:57 AM
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Where is the Ear when we need him????
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post #4 of 40 Old 03-31-2009, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Woah!

Oh my...

B-DEAP to the MAX!

Nice find, Ricci.

The BDEAP's highest sensitivity region was up in the 80-100 Hz range and it rolled of pretty steeply. I should know as we did most of the TEF measurements of the cabinets and all the pictures that used to be on the Servo website were taken by me at my shop. To get deep low frequency response you needed to position them close to a boundary and apply loads of equalization boost.
The TH221 aka, "Cinemonster" on the other hand has a sensitivity @ 20 Hz of 103dB which is 30-40 dB range higher than the BDEAP @ 20Hz and the TH221 handles substantially more power as well at 3000 watts RMS.
The Cinemonster is in a league of its own with regards to the combination of cutoff and output and the primary application being large theater spaces, seating several hundred if not thousand seats, but we'll be glad to sell them for the HT market as well.
The retail price of the TH221 is just over $10K so it isn't for the average customer but then again the average customer isn't looking for this performance either. There are certainly many subs on the market that cost more than this but none I am aware of that can hold a candle to its performance.

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post #5 of 40 Old 04-02-2009, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike,

What's the dimensions on the TH221? I don't remember it being mentioned other than it was 50cu ft external. $10K retail (gulp) If that translates into $6-$7K actual cost it almost seems reasonable for what I imagine it can do. I hope I get to hear a pair of these in a nice theater sometime maybe an IMAX install?
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post #6 of 40 Old 04-02-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Mike,

What's the dimensions on the TH221? I don't remember it being mentioned other than it was 50cu ft external. $10K retail (gulp) If that translates into $6-$7K actual cost it almost seems reasonable for what I imagine it can do. I hope I get to hear a pair of these in a nice theater sometime maybe an IMAX install?

60"x60"x28". A single TH221 will exceed the block of 4-TH50's in the Chicago IMAX so I don't think you'll be seeing pairs, but rather singles!
As to the cost, remember the Genelec 7073A a 4-12 sub is in that price point and it would be laughable to compare the two.

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post #7 of 40 Old 04-02-2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hedden View Post

60"x60"x28". A single TH221 will exceed the block of 4-TH50's in the Chicago IMAX so I don't think you'll be seeing pairs, but rather singles!
As to the cost, remember the Genelec 7073A a 4-12 sub is in that price point and it would be laughable to compare the two.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

I cannot even imagine the output of that monster! My TH50 has redefined what I consider clean/loud/deep output. Truly stunning...

Denon 4311ci with Mini DSP and antimodeL/R -DIYSOUND tempest towers (40" tall towers)C - DIYSOUND alchemy 8LS/RS - community D6MACHTSUB SYSTEM2-Stereo Integrity HST-18 D1 subs (happy dance) in dual 12 cuft ported tuned 16hzSub amp- Speakerpower SP2-12000
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post #8 of 40 Old 04-02-2009, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hedden View Post

60"x60"x28". A single TH221 will exceed the block of 4-TH50's in the Chicago IMAX so I don't think you'll be seeing pairs, but rather singles!
As to the cost, remember the Genelec 7073A a 4-12 sub is in that price point and it would be laughable to compare the two.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

The Genelec is nice but a bit overpriced IMO. It wouldn't even be thought about in comparison. Not even in the same league...Actually what is?

1 of these trumps 4 TH-50's Does it cost less than the 4 TH50's? Understanding that this is intended for very high output extended bass, do you forsee any other intended apps besides large cinema installs? What about live sound, or fixed installations? How is the more normal 35-150hz pro sub range compared to multiple smaller, less extended subs like TH115's or the new TH212's? I figure that the smaller subs more optomised for that range would have an advantage there? Why not one driver in a cab half the size and just double up?
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post #9 of 40 Old 04-03-2009, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

The Genelec is nice but a bit overpriced IMO. It wouldn't even be thought about in comparison. Not even in the same league...Actually what is?

1 of these trumps 4 TH-50's Does it cost less than the 4 TH50's? Understanding that this is intended for very high output extended bass, do you forsee any other intended apps besides large cinema installs? What about live sound, or fixed installations? How is the more normal 35-150hz pro sub range compared to multiple smaller, less extended subs like TH115's or the new TH212's? I figure that the smaller subs more optomised for that range would have an advantage there? Why not one driver in a cab half the size and just double up?

Yes, the TH221 is less money than four TH50's. We have many applications for this sub, live, fixed, staging, etc. This is a pretty big box so if you only need 35Hz the TH115, TH215, or TH212 would make more sense to me. Danley is making products that give the designer flexible options without having to sacrifice performance. Pick your cutoff, output, and size and we probably have something to fill the order in fact below 40Hz I don't know of a company in existence that gives you more options.

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Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
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post #10 of 40 Old 04-03-2009, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Why not one driver in a cab half the size and just double up?

Because there is a certain group of people out there who only want to compare ONE cabinet to ONE cabinet-they don't care about size-drivers-costs-impedance etc. Model X vs model Z type of thing.

So the new "monsters" the TH221 and the TH812 were designed with those people in mind. For touring companies these cabinets will also result in less truck space and less trips moving gear from the truck to the stage. That will save them money in trucking costs and labor!

Both the TH221 and the TH812 may be offered in "half" versions if the demand is such. There would be no difference in low freq response-and the max output would simply be less-along with a smaller size.

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post #11 of 40 Old 04-04-2009, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

Because there is a certain group of people out there who only want to compare ONE cabinet to ONE cabinet-they don't care about size-drivers-costs-impedance etc. Model X vs model Z type of thing.

Like the PSW-6 (think its more for permanent installations). The Meyer's still smaller though.
Hope you have enough space to squeeze in some amps for the 8 drivers in the TH-812!
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post #12 of 40 Old 04-04-2009, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 2100 View Post

Like the PSW-6 (think its more for permanent installations). The Meyer's still smaller though.
Hope you have enough space to squeeze in some amps for the 8 drivers in the TH-812!

Smaller yes-but won't go anywhere near as low OR as loud! as the TH221 or the TH812

And then there is that whole sound "quality" issue.

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post #13 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 10:58 AM
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Ivan or Mike,


Is Danley (in Georgia) open daily for auditions? Anything special required
or can one simply stop by without any notice? I'm certain
some notice is preferred.

Is the entire product line setup for listening - I seem to recall
a post talking about speaker switching capability.

Thanks!

lon
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post #14 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpc View Post

Ivan or Mike,


Is Danley (in Georgia) open daily for auditions? Anything special required
or can one simply stop by without any notice? I'm certain
some notice is preferred.

Is the entire product line setup for listening - I seem to recall
a post talking about speaker switching capability.

Thanks!

We have a dedicated space with stereo pairs of SHmini, SH100,SH100, SH100B, SH50, SH95, SH64, and SH96. DTS20 THspud, CS30, THmini, TH212, TH115, TH215, TH50, TH221, and TH812 subs are there and you can hear any pair or single top with any sub. The 7.1 consists of whatever selected fronts with SH100' doing the four surround channels. Ivan built a wonderful switcher that allows not only selection of the individual cabinets or pairs but also applies the proper high pass/low pass filters and allows us to precisely level match. Our typical demo set up has no equalization in place. We can also bypass the level matching to show sensitivity differences. If one wants to A/B our products against some other product our switching easily allows that be that an active self powered, multi way amplified, or passive network version. We have a 16'x9' screen with a 3chip Panasonic native HD projector and everything is Crestron controlled. The room is scrimmed off to be 22'x55'x12' but acoustically it is 80' x 55' x 12'.
The space is always ready for a demo but we do ask for appointments as our schedules are pretty booked up. I spent the money and dedicated the space because an audible picture tells a story much better than a spec sheet or words. Let us know if you are in the area a day or so in advance and we'd be glad to see everybody.

God Bless,


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post #15 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 12:11 PM
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So, ah...which one of you guys will be the first to buy it and put it through the paces?

****cough cough RICCI cough cough****

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post #16 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 12:59 PM
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awesome, now this is a real sub! Looking forward to seeing this thing in action some day.

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post #17 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

awesome, now this is a real sub! Looking forward to seeing this thing in action some day.

Seeing it is one thing-FEELING it is quite another

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post #18 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

awesome, now this is a real sub! Looking forward to seeing this thing in action some day.

its -3dB down at 24Hz....I want -3dB down at 10Hz

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post #19 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

its -3dB down at 24Hz....I want -3dB down at 10Hz

I hear ya, Penn but the TH221 is a whole different beast than what we usually build over in the DIY area.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #20 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I hear ya, Penn but the TH221 is a whole different beast than what we usually build over in the DIY area.
Here is a little something I put together out of boredom over the weekend. This is the response at my listening position. Notice the even power response of the spectragraph and with zero equalization applied. Also this is high resolution, if I smoothed the data to 1/3 octave it quickly looks like a flat line. I don't use the DTS20, just the TH50's. Also notice Penn, it may not be -3@10 but it's pretty good to 15Hz and will do close to 130dB!

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mike's HT response with spectrographs.doc 361.5k . file
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post #21 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

its -3dB down at 24Hz....I want -3dB down at 10Hz

It is not a matter of the freq it is 3dB down at, but rather how LOUD it will be at a particular freq. 3dB down at 10Hz doesn't do much good if it is only 80dB

It has to be able to get loud enough to do some good.

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post #22 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

its -3dB down at 24Hz....I want -3dB down at 10Hz

They already have it, its called the Matterhorn and does about "153dB @ 1m" in the passband. Not really for home usage though. Then again neither is a 96 x 18" IB with 48 amps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It is not a matter of the freq it is 3dB down at, but rather how LOUD it will be at a particular freq. 3dB down at 10Hz doesn't do much good if it is only 80dB

It has to be able to get loud enough to do some good.

I think Penn knows that, he's just looking for something deeper which is louder than the usual ported/sealed boxes but softer than the Matterhorn.

But if anybody remembers dirtyharriet, she purchased a bunch of TH-115s (did not get the JBL 3 series) in the end to augment her 16 (?) driver IB.
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post #23 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It is not a matter of the freq it is 3dB down at, but rather how LOUD it will be at a particular freq. 3dB down at 10Hz doesn't do much good if it is only 80dB

It has to be able to get loud enough to do some good.

lot of talk

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...127851&page=11

lets see the walk.....

hahah

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post #24 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hedden View Post

Here is a little something I put together out of boredom over the weekend. This is the response at my listening position. Notice the even power response of the spectragraph and with zero equalization applied. Also this is high resolution, if I smoothed the data to 1/3 octave it quickly looks like a flat line. I don't use the DTS20, just the TH50's. Also notice Penn, it may not be -3@10 but it's pretty good to 15Hz and will do close to 130dB!

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

Impressive... Most Impressive.
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post #25 of 40 Old 04-07-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hedden View Post

it may not be -3@10 but it's pretty good to 15Hz and will do close to 130dB!

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

This is what most people on the forum don't understand. What good is "flat" to 10Hz if it can only hit 80dB-90dB?
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post #26 of 40 Old 04-08-2009, 12:02 PM
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Mike or Ivan,


Might I ask for hotel recommendations for something close to Danley?

I'm shootin' for arrival on Thursday, 16 April. Hopefully, the ears
won't be too shot from the drive over.

American Express Card - maybe I should leave home without it.
I noticed that 'thebuckaman' hasn't posted lately...RIP!

Looking forward to hearing all of the goodies!

Cheers!

lon
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post #27 of 40 Old 04-08-2009, 12:23 PM
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I don't care if this thing is down 10 db's at 10 hz, it would still hit high spl numbers down there. Do these horn subwoofers act like sealed subs below their tuning frequencies?
Danley is a company that I can see myself owning in the future(when I get tired of playing with my setup now). I wonder how this sub would do in my 2200 cubic foot room(just curious)? I have eight 18 inch sealed subs now with 1200 watts each.
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post #28 of 40 Old 04-08-2009, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I posted this like a week ago and now everybody sees it! Sheesh.

Let's see...6kw is what? 37.5 dbw? GP 2.83v sensitivity is 103db at 20hz, add boundary gain, plus a tiny bit of pressure vessel gain, now account for 4m distance from the sub....Ah screw it! We're talking about probably close to 140db peak capability in the 20hz range if you were to put this thing in your house. Even with severe roll off you probably still have 115db or more left at 10hz.

The cannon battles in M&C would never be the same...

Get a pair and give yourself PTSD.
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post #29 of 40 Old 04-08-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricci View Post

i posted this like a week ago and now everybody sees it! Sheesh.

Let's see...6kw is what? 37.5 dbw? Gp 2.83v sensitivity is 103db at 20hz, add boundary gain, plus a tiny bit of pressure vessel gain, now account for 4m distance from the sub....ah screw it! We're talking about probably close to 140db peak capability in the 20hz range if you were to put this thing in your house. Even with severe roll off you probably still have 115db or more left at 10hz.

The cannon battles in m&c would never be the same...

Get a pair and give yourself ptsd.

exactly.
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post #30 of 40 Old 04-08-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpc View Post

Mike or Ivan,


Might I ask for hotel recommendations for something close to Danley?

I'm shootin' for arrival on Thursday, 16 April. Hopefully, the ears
won't be too shot from the drive over.

American Express Card - maybe I should leave home without it.
I noticed that 'thebuckaman' hasn't posted lately...RIP!

Looking forward to hearing all of the goodies!

Cheers!

There are lots of hotels close by (within a mile or two) and range from really cheap to the Hilton.

I will be out of town most of next week. The best thing is to call the office (770-535-0204) and make an appointment. I don't know about the other peoples schedules.

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