BIC Acoustech H200 Subwoofer (AKA PL-200) - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1400 Old 10-19-2011, 06:01 AM
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In general when you set the crossover in the Yamaha to 80 hz, it is sending everything from about 80 hz on up to the speakers and 80 hz down to the subwoofer. It is best to set the crossover on the sub to bypass or just crank it up to maximum and let the Yamaha handle the crossover.

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post #1082 of 1400 Old 10-19-2011, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

In general when you set the crossover in the Yamaha to 80 hz, it is sending everything from about 80 hz on up to the speakers and 80 hz down to the subwoofer. It is best to set the crossover on the sub to bypass or just crank it up to maximum and let the Yamaha handle the crossover.

I guess I'm lost with what you're saying, here. I do understand the first part of what you said, that the crossover is literally a threshold for the minimum freq. for the speakers, and maximum for the sub.

I didn't understand your recommendation, though. For the record, I don't yet own this sub (it will arrive on Friday, if I'm not mistaken). Since it seems to have its own crossover tuner, what will it do if I let the sub handle it (compared to the Yamaha, that is)? In other words, is there a way that I can get what others are doing? (subwoofer takes < 80 Hz freq., speakers take > 120 Hz, and they share the 80 - 120 Hz range together).

Sorry for the confusion. It will probably make more sense when I am possessing the actual receiver. I simply want to make sure that, if I crank up the sub's bass, I'm not just going to get boomy effects to compensate for not having as audible of frequencies as I should.
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post #1083 of 1400 Old 10-19-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

I guess I'm lost with what you're saying, here. I do understand the first part of what you said, that the crossover is literally a threshold for the minimum freq. for the speakers, and maximum for the sub.

I didn't understand your recommendation, though. For the record, I don't yet own this sub (it will arrive on Friday, if I'm not mistaken). Since it seems to have its own crossover tuner, what will it do if I let the sub handle it (compared to the Yamaha, that is)? In other words, is there a way that I can get what others are doing? (subwoofer takes < 80 Hz freq., speakers take > 120 Hz, and they share the 80 - 120 Hz range together).

Sorry for the confusion. It will probably make more sense when I am possessing the actual receiver. I simply want to make sure that, if I crank up the sub's bass, I'm not just going to get boomy effects to compensate for not having as audible of frequencies as I should.

From what I understand, you don't want to have two crossovers fighting it out with each other. Most crossover dials on subwoofers are not very accurate. If you set the crossover in the PL-200 to 80 hz it might be actually 70 hz or 90 hz etc. The crossover dial on the PL-200 only goes from 30 hz to 90 hz. So you can't set it for 120 hz. I don't know about the settings in the Yamaha. Some receivers will let you set crossovers for individual speakers and the subwoofer. If I understand you right, you can then set the speakers for 80 hz and the sub for 120 hz. Then your speakers will play down to 80 hz and the sub will play up to 120 hz. Personally I would not run a sub past 90 or 100 hz. You start to get localized sound that high. Start with the crossover set at 80 in the Yamaha, bypass the crossover in the sub then adjust it to your listening preference.

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post #1084 of 1400 Old 10-20-2011, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

From what I understand, you don't want to have two crossovers fighting it out with each other. Most crossover dials on subwoofers are not very accurate. If you set the crossover in the PL-200 to 80 hz it might be actually 70 hz or 90 hz etc. The crossover dial on the PL-200 only goes from 30 hz to 90 hz. So you can't set it for 120 hz. I don't know about the settings in the Yamaha. Some receivers will let you set crossovers for individual speakers and the subwoofer. If I understand you right, you can then set the speakers for 80 hz and the sub for 120 hz. Then your speakers will play down to 80 hz and the sub will play up to 120 hz. Personally I would not run a sub past 90 or 100 hz. You start to get localized sound that high. Start with the crossover set at 80 in the Yamaha, bypass the crossover in the sub then adjust it to your listening preference.

Thank you, good sir.

I suppose my only issue with the 120 Hz thing anyway is that, as someone told me a little above, my receiver can't set individual speakers to certain frequency thresholds on the lower end of the spectrum.

I'll go for the 80 Hz (maybe 90 just in case lol), and see what kind of results I get. If placement truly is key for this thing, I might be in a mess of trouble, because currently there are only two places in my room where I can position it (at least where my 20 ft cable can unobtrusively reach to), and I surely do hope they will be the right spot for the right punch!

This sub is coming in tomorrow, by the way.
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post #1085 of 1400 Old 10-20-2011, 08:55 AM
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When you get the PL-200, start with the volume set no more than about the 11:00 position. Trust me it might be a budget sub but it is very strong. There is a switch on the back for bypassing the crossover in the sub. It will say "crossover out/in". Set it for out so the Yamaha will do the crossing over. Placement might be an issue. In my room I had no problems with placement because with other subs I already knew where I get the best response from. It took a few good weeks to get it right but it worked out well. The only thing you need to consider is the PL-200 has a rear port. In my room subs with front firing ports sound better and stronger. Just keep adjusting and playing with it when it comes in until you get it right because that is half of the fun about this hobby....

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post #1086 of 1400 Old 10-20-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

When you get the PL-200, start with the volume set no more than about the 11:00 position. Trust me it might be a budget sub but it is very strong. There is a switch on the back for bypassing the crossover in the sub. It will say "crossover out/in". Set it for out so the Yamaha will do the crossing over. Placement might be an issue. In my room I had no problems with placement because with other subs I already knew where I get the best response from. It took a few good weeks to get it right but it worked out well. The only thing you need to consider is the PL-200 has a rear port. In my room subs with front firing ports sound better and stronger. Just keep adjusting and playing with it when it comes in until you get it right because that is half of the fun about this hobby....

Haha, touché...

Well I currently own two subs, but they aren't anything special (they were merely parts of the HT sets I got them from). They are the 8" ones featured in these images:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HT-AS7...9133731&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-.../dp/B0039UUPH6

The Samsung rattles at its lows (not in a good way, as the sub rattles and not the room ), and the HK just kind of hums in the mid-range. I just want to rid these (or keep the HK for my 7.2 setup just in case) and stick with the BIC. Anyway, as far as placement for these, before they were on either side of my main desk, which held my LCD. Now that I'm scooting all of that off to the side for my new 59" plasma and stand, I'm afraid I will be about 3" short of being able to squeeze the PL-200 to the right of the stand, out in front. My best placement, as of now, is underneath that old "main desk" and aiming right-to-left from my view (near the front right corner of the room). I'm hoping this will do. If not, the next best place will be the back left corner of my room, aiming back-to-front. The only problem is that I don't think my 20 ft cable for my sub can wrap around my room that far for that kind of reach.

We'll see I guess!

Thanks for everything btw.
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post #1087 of 1400 Old 10-20-2011, 02:24 PM
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If you need to, go to monoprice.com and you can get a 35ft sub cable for around $8 or $9. They are great cables. I use them for my subs.

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post #1088 of 1400 Old 10-20-2011, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

If you need to, go to monoprice.com and you can get a 35ft sub cable for around $8 or $9. They are great cables. I use them for my subs.

That's where I got my two 20 ft cables. No regrets buying from there, ever lol.
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post #1089 of 1400 Old 10-29-2011, 01:47 AM
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How is this sub for music. I listen to everything classical, alternative, hip-hop, rap, etc
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post #1090 of 1400 Old 10-29-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by edo101 View Post

How is this sub for music. I listen to everything classical, alternative, hip-hop, rap, etc

It's okay... Check back through this thread and you'll see what people have posted.
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post #1091 of 1400 Old 11-02-2011, 10:27 PM
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If I were to get this sub for 279, is this a good deal? I want an all around sub for music, games, and movies. Should I look elsewhere?

Or could i just turn off the sub when listening to music and use my DV 64 tower speakers solely for music since the PL-200s are bad. I will not go above 300 bucks for a woofer.
on my budget that is...or should I get a 5.0 system with towers for now and wait to make some money and get a better sub
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post #1092 of 1400 Old 11-02-2011, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edo101 View Post

If I were to get this sub for 279, is this a good deal? I want an all around sub for music, games, and movies. Should I look elsewhere?

Or could i just turn off the sub when listening to music and use my DV 64 tower speakers solely for music since the PL-200s are bad. I will not go above 300 bucks for a woofer.
on my budget that is...or should I get a 5.0 system with towers for now and wait to make some money and get a better sub

If you want a better sub for music, get something sealed and/or look at HSU research.. Just read about a few of them and you'll find a lot of folks like their speakers and subs. The 200 is effectively solid form 30-100hz. It's not that bad for music I just wish it was a lot better.

-edit-

279 is also what I paid for the 200.00 it's probably a tad steep in asking price but not that bad of a deal...
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post #1093 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BigDonk View Post

If you want a better sub for music, get something sealed and/or look at HSU research.. Just read about a few of them and you'll find a lot of folks like their speakers and subs. The 200 is effectively solid form 30-100hz. It's not that bad for music I just wish it was a lot better.

-edit-

279 is also what I paid for the 200.00 it's probably a tad steep in asking price but not that bad of a deal...

Well 300 bucks is really where I'm trying to cut things off. I won't be able to get something more expensive until summer rolls around and that is a long wait for me (especially with the movies i wanna watch on a better sound system and games as well). The HSUs are all expensive as hell unless there are coupons.

Right now my choices are the PL-200 and LSP-12 (people says its better musically) which i heard there is an AVS member discount. I will wait till December time to buy em but its just something i'm trying to make up my mind on.

I plan on getting DV 64 towers as fronts and 63si for rear and the 63 CLR for center. Unless the DV 64s will be sufficient for bass till i can blow money on the HSU ST2 during the summer. I plan on getting the RC-370 which has AUdssey-Multi XT (i'm guessing this will help with stuff?)
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post #1094 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 03:57 AM
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I think this sub is worth the money. It works well for HT. It seems to work well with the below 30hz frequencies for me. While sitting in the same room I can hear some crazy vibrations in the next room like long wavelenghts affecting it w/o anything audible from the sub. IE: I popped in Cloverdale and I thought an engine block was crashing through the roof in the kitchen, lol. And listening to music, there's really nothing out of place.

It puts a welcome gentle bottom out that's just below my mains, very little to no muddiness. I'm pleased with this good bang for the buck sub. I like having it on for daily tv watching and can't go without it anymore. I know that's not scientific but just an impression.

I have a Denon 2310ci and used audessey to set it all up. It is a bit corner loaded in my mid sized LR. I never touch the gain and just let it be. Not too loud at all but makes it presence known when needed.
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post #1095 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 05:37 AM
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$279 is a great deal when it comes to this sub. Don't let people confuse you on the subject. This is a great sub and if your budget is $300 you really cannot go wrong with it. It is a Great HT sub and a good music sub. The trouble it has with music is that it's best output is in the lower range of it total output capabilities. It can play mids decently but just can't muster the same output that it can at it's lowest lows, generally between 30-90hz.
With the speakers you are getting this should not be a problem. All you would have to do is set the cut off for your speakers to be 80hz. Have Double Bass turned on and have the crossover send everything 120/110hz to your sub.

If you are not comfortable with the $279 for the PL-200 I would say go with the H100 that BIC has, you should be able to get that for as low as $240 with best offer. The H100 is pretty much the same subwoofer with just a touch less wattage.

My experience is with the H100, I have not heard the PL-200 but from other reviews I have read, it is just as I said above, the same unit with a but more power. I absolutely loved my H100 and it was a massive step up from the HTiB sub I had previously. I would still have it today If I had not purchased my VTF-2 Mk3.
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post #1096 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 07:04 AM
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Sometimes I get tickled hearing people talk about "musical" when it comes to subwoofers and then mention their budget is at the low end. I've had M&K subs, I've had Sonance subs and the price ranges were in the $800 - $1400 ranges. Now I have a PL-200 and it blows away the more expensive competition. $279 is a great price and you'll have to spend much more for no or little difference in sound. This is a great sub PERIOD. Do better subs exist? Yes. Are they much more expensive? Yes. Do they sound much much better? No. BIC is doing it right. I now have a complete BIC speaker system. If you compare price and sound together, they are unbeatable IMO.

Remember, with home theater equipment, if you double your budget, the sound quality does not double. I'd say (and this is not scientific), if you double your price the sound quality will only go up by 10%-20%. It's very exponential.

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post #1097 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffreyJonesBSME View Post

Sometimes I get tickled hearing people talk about "musical" when it comes to subwoofers and then mention their budget is at the low end. I've had M&K subs, I've had Sonance subs and the price ranges were in the $800 - $1400 ranges. Now I have a PL-200 and it blows away the more expensive competition. $279 is a great price and you'll have to spend much more for no or little difference in sound. This is a great sub PERIOD. Do better subs exist? Yes. Are they much more expensive? Yes. Do they sound much much better? No. BIC is doing it right. I now have a complete BIC speaker system. If you compare price and sound together, they are unbeatable IMO.

Remember, with home theater equipment, if you double your budget, the sound quality does not double. I'd say (and this is not scientific), if you double your price the sound quality will only go up by 10%-20%. It's very exponential.

Well my worry is also that people have said the PL 200 lags in music, that it doesn't keep pace with the other speakers. I figure i guess I can just turn off the bass when i'm playing music. But yeah I don't know what else to get; I've heard the Polk 505 is decent but it doesn't get very low. SO I'm left with LSP12 and the HSUs which even the STF1 is 299 or so plus a 34 dollar shiping and handling which is quite ridiculous
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post #1098 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by edo101 View Post

Well my worry is also that people have said the PL 200 lags in music, that it doesn't keep pace with the other speakers. I figure i guess I can just turn off the bass when i'm playing music. But yeah I don't know what else to get; I've heard the Polk 505 is decent but it doesn't get very low. SO I'm left with LSP12 and the HSUs which even the STF1 is 299 or so plus a 34 dollar shiping and handling which is quite ridiculous

I guess I haven't heard anyone claim lagging in music. I guess it's possible, but I really doubt it. I've been one of those people who always thought that higher prices meant much higher quality. In my life, the speakers I've owned are Phase Technology, Boston Accoustics, Bose, Niles, M&K, and Sonance. Most of it was low to medium end gear from elite sound shops (Most high end gear at regular "audio stores" I qualify as low end gear at elite shops. I felt like I took a big chance this past year with BIC especially since I couldn't hear it first. I kinda feel stupid now with my previous thinking. I got a chance to hear my BIC PL-89's side by side to my Niles PHD-60's (MUCH higher priced). The PL-89's were very comparible if not just a little nicer sounding. The PL-200 blows away the other subs I've had. Wall Shaking Powerful!!! Pull the trigger, and I bet you feel as silly as I did once you've heard it. I'm not easily impressed but the PL-200 impressed the crap out of me.

"Engineers aren't boring people, we just get excited over boring things".
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post #1099 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 04:04 PM
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I guess I haven't heard anyone claim lagging in music. I guess it's possible, but I really doubt it. I've been one of those people who always thought that higher prices meant much higher quality. In my life, the speakers I've owned are Phase Technology, Boston Accoustics, Bose, Niles, M&K, and Sonance. Most of it was low to medium end gear from elite sound shops (Most high end gear at regular "audio stores" I qualify as low end gear at elite shops. I felt like I took a big chance this past year with BIC especially since I couldn't hear it first. I kinda feel stupid now with my previous thinking. I got a chance to hear my BIC PL-89's side by side to my Niles PHD-60's (MUCH higher priced). The PL-89's were very comparible if not just a little nicer sounding. The PL-200 blows away the other subs I've had. Wall Shaking Powerful!!! Pull the trigger, and I bet you feel as silly as I did once you've heard it. I'm not easily impressed but the PL-200 impressed the crap out of me.

yeah I'm an audio enthusiast, I do appreciate nice sound but i'm not anal like an audiophile...I just like maxing performance with my budget. anyway, what kind of songs do you listen to on the PL-200?
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post #1100 of 1400 Old 11-03-2011, 04:34 PM
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yeah I'm an audio enthusiast, I do appreciate nice sound but i'm not anal like an audiophile...I just like maxing performance with my budget. anyway, what kind of songs do you listen to on the PL-200?

100% Home Theater, that's why I can't be sure about music on it. Of course, plenty of music in a movie soundtrack. I've never heard anything to give me doubts on it's performance.

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post #1101 of 1400 Old 11-07-2011, 05:09 AM
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Thanks for pointing that out!
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post #1102 of 1400 Old 11-07-2011, 07:10 AM
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read through the thread last night; is the PL-200 still one of the best bang-for-your-buck subs for HT use under $300? PL-200 is shipped for $280. I'm considering the HSU STF-1 due to its smaller size but it is $50 more. This is for HT (movies/TV) only use. Thanks.
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post #1103 of 1400 Old 11-11-2011, 08:00 AM
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read through the thread last night; is the PL-200 still one of the best bang-for-your-buck subs for HT use under $300? PL-200 is shipped for $280. I'm considering the HSU STF-1 due to its smaller size but it is $50 more. This is for HT (movies/TV) only use. Thanks.

I'm in the same boat as you are (looking for a budget sub). I'll be using it mostly for HT use, but also video games and once in a while music.

Originally I was all set to get the F-12 (found it for $183 shipped), but after reading this thread, I did some digging and was able to find the PL-200 for only $249 shipped.

For only $66 more, it seems like a no-brainer, but I wanted to see if that's still the case.

This would be my first sub, so I really don't have anything to compare it to. My AVR is about 6 years old (RX-V750), while my speakers are over 10 years old. This is going into our family room which is roughly 14x20x8. It connects to both a living room (full wall with double doors) and the kitchen area (half wall with doorway).
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post #1104 of 1400 Old 11-11-2011, 09:36 AM
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Doesn't it seem odd that the PL-200 has a shorter warranty on the amp than the F-12 (2 yrs vs 5 yrs)?

Is that something I should be concerned about?
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post #1105 of 1400 Old 11-11-2011, 05:57 PM
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I believe the F-12 has the same warranty as the Pl-200
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post #1106 of 1400 Old 11-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

I believe the F-12 has the same warranty as the Pl-200

Nope different.
F12 http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...pe=8&spkrID=84 5 years parts and labor
pl-200 http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...e=8&spkrID=123 8years parts and labor, 2 years amp
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post #1107 of 1400 Old 11-12-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Nope different.
F12 http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...pe=8&spkrID=84 5 years parts and labor
pl-200 http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...e=8&spkrID=123 8years parts and labor, 2 years amp

My bad, thanks for the correction C.R. I do find that a bit "odd" that the F-12 has a better warranty then the Pl but it does.
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post #1108 of 1400 Old 11-14-2011, 01:48 PM
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If anyone is debating on whether to get the F-12 or PL-200, here's a recent review of both subs:

http://www.trulygadgets.com/review/a...-your-buck-bic
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post #1109 of 1400 Old 11-14-2011, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjlee View Post

If anyone is debating on whether to get the F-12 or PL-200, here's a recent review of both subs:

http://www.trulygadgets.com/review/a...-your-buck-bic

Its musical performance is what's keeping me, plus the cheaper price of the PSW 505
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post #1110 of 1400 Old 11-15-2011, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blur456 View Post

read through the thread last night; is the PL-200 still one of the best bang-for-your-buck subs for HT use under $300? PL-200 is shipped for $280.

Hi blur456, $250 fs PL-200 at Acoustic Sound Design with code thesub.
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