BIC Acoustech H200 Subwoofer (AKA PL-200) - Page 47 - AVS Forum
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post #1381 of 1406 Old 03-20-2014, 07:44 AM
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Any idea on how to improve this sub for use in music? I know it's not known for being good with music, but outside of running it +5 or more hot I was wondering if there was anything else I could do to help improve.

When I play music I usually hook up laptop up via HDMI.
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post #1382 of 1406 Old 03-20-2014, 07:59 AM
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I've had one in use for a little over a month, but admittedly don't listen to a ton of music through my home theatre. It's mostly for TV and movies. That said, it's done really well for bass support on concert DVDs.

If anything, it's got a lot of ( too much? ) potential headroom, so even after running it through Audyssey, the volume is usually between 9:00 and 10:00...and I'll still hear occasional complaints from my wife upstairs. This is a large space, 15x25x9, hardwood floors, leading into an open kitchen, and has no problem filling the space without being obnoxious.

The first one I got had a bad amp. Talked through the issue with Fred Henderson of BIC America's tech support, and Mike Embers of Acoustic Sound Design and worked it all out promptly. Mike sent out a replacement unit with a prepaid UPS return tag. New one has been problem-free from the moment I un-boxed and set it up.

I have pretty efficient mains, rated to 40Hz, and Audyssey tried to set those up for full range. In the end, I overrode those settings, and changed the crossover to 60Hz, and have been pleased all around.

This replaced a Hsu Research VTF-2 with an amp that crapped out. Specs are pretty close, though the Hsu was downward firing, with two side ports.

Overall, very pleased, and a bargain to boot!
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post #1383 of 1406 Old 03-21-2014, 08:30 AM
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I've been wanting to see if I can get better performance out of my sub and wanted to mess around with the calibration a little more

Currently I had the sub volume knob at about 11:45. Just a little below 12:00. YPAO calibrates it to -5.5. I manually adjust it to +1.

My question is should I lower the volume on the sub and let YPAO try to automatically get it close to 0 and then I can adjust? Or is how I have it now good? Or is it the same thing?

I hope that makes sense.
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post #1384 of 1406 Old 03-21-2014, 08:44 AM
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I don't think I can help you, but you might try Fred at BIC US tech support. He seems like an old-school type, but he might be able to eke out a bit better performance.

The first one I received, I'd have to set the volume to ~3:00 to get a loud enough Audyssey tone for calibration. Lower than that and the microphone wouldn't pick up on it. Then I'd get a distorted warble in use, indicating that something was awry.

With the replacement one, 9:00 is fine, and ~10:30 is getting a bit overbearing. That you're going closer to 12:00 makes me wonder, between what you're listening to, size / room characteristics.

Is it the volume that's a concern? Or the quality of the tone that's a concern? Knowing that going in might help you ( or Fred ) ascertain the problem and / or solution (s).

Good luck, and be sure to report how it turns out.
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post #1385 of 1406 Old 03-22-2014, 01:03 PM
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I set my bic h100 gain to the 10:30 position and then ran ypao. Once the calibration was finished, I moved up the subwoofer level in the avr just a little bit and that worked wonders for me.

Regarding music with this sub, it is not the most musical sub, but it does ok.Your issues maybe related to your room placement. Room placement can make all the difference with subwoofers. If you have not tried to put you sub in a front corner, give it a try.If you need more help with sub placement, go to youtube. There are some excellent video's on there.
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post #1386 of 1406 Old 04-03-2014, 11:17 AM
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I too have issues with music. My avr is not good for audessy, cambridge 751r, so i did all by measurement distances and by ear.

I will have dual PL200's. Any recommendations on setting up 2 of these subs? should I just turn the gains down on both? I have the receiver doing crossover, so pl200 is set to "out" but seems gain still operates in this setting. Is that correct? I was tild gain and crossover onobs shouldn't work with crossover being set to "out"
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post #1387 of 1406 Old 04-03-2014, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron hawaii View Post

I too have issues with music. My avr is not good for audessy, cambridge 751r, so i did all by measurement distances and by ear.

I will have dual PL200's. Any recommendations on setting up 2 of these subs? should I just turn the gains down on both? I have the receiver doing crossover, so pl200 is set to "out" but seems gain still operates in this setting. Is that correct? I was tild gain and crossover onobs shouldn't work with crossover being set to "out"

If you have an SPL meter, you could use it to calibrate, in lieu of Audyssey.

If you're letting the receiver do the crossover, then yes, the toggle switch should be set to "Out." Odd designation, and not intuitively obvious, but confirmed by BIC America Tech Support guy Fred. In that position, the PL-200's crossover dial is no longer in play, but the gain still works. Mine is usually between 9:00 and 10:30, or else it gets too boomy, or the wife complains.

I have the AVR crossover set to 60Hz, since my mains are pretty efficient, and are rated to 40Hz. I believe Audyssey has the output of the sub at -4.5 or -5.0 dB, though another thread in here said ideally, you shouldn't go beyond + / - 3.5 dB. If I get bored, I might re-run Audyssey, with the gain at 9:00, as, IIRC, I had it on 10 or 10:30 when I last ran it. Which is why 9:00 is probably close to that -3.5 dB sweetspot.
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post #1388 of 1406 Old 04-03-2014, 12:53 PM
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DJE31,
Thanks, this makes sense. I don't have a SPL but the audio guy who sold me the 751r set up the calibration with distance meter and by ear too, so I trust it. This was with a diff sub though.

I appreciate your help and will try all those that you said. Yes, the gain still works with the "out" position.

Has anyone tried to "stuff" the port of the PL200 to get tighter bass? I know I will lose output, but that is the least of my problems, esp since I will be running dual PL200s.

Thanks again for your help.
Ron
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post #1389 of 1406 Old 04-07-2014, 10:37 AM
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What are the correct setting on the back, for this sub? I have my Volume knob at the 12 o'clock position (straight up), Phase at 0. Crossover is at 80

Sony KDL65W850A 65" LED HDTV 
Denon AVR-2113CI
Polk Monitor 65T (Fronts)
Polk Monitor 50's (Rears)
Polk CS2 (Center)
Acoustech PL-200
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post #1390 of 1406 Old 04-07-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodean View Post

What are the correct setting on the back, for this sub? I have my Volume knob at the 12 o'clock position (straight up), Phase at 0. Crossover is at 80
It depends on several factors. You need to have a SPL meter and some sort of measuring device to see the response in your room. You cannot just use certain settings, place the sub down and expect it to work properly.

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post #1391 of 1406 Old 04-07-2014, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

It depends on several factors. You need to have a SPL meter and some sort of measuring device to see the response in your room. You cannot just use certain settings, place the sub down and expect it to work properly.

Since I don't have an SPL meter, any good starting points?

Sony KDL65W850A 65" LED HDTV 
Denon AVR-2113CI
Polk Monitor 65T (Fronts)
Polk Monitor 50's (Rears)
Polk CS2 (Center)
Acoustech PL-200
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post #1392 of 1406 Old 04-07-2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodean View Post

Since I don't have an SPL meter, any good starting points?
For starters, Have your phase set to 0, crossover to Out, and under most situations you should not have the SUB volume at 12 o'clock, I would suggest no higher than 10 o'clock. Make sure your receiver is set to work with a subwoofer and has high-pass filter set to between 80-100 hz depending on the capability of your existing speakers and set low pass filtered at 80hz on the rest.

If you have not done the subwoofer crawl I highly suggest that you do it, you will most likely be surprised at where the best placement is for your room. After doing the subwoofer crawl run Audyssey or YPAO if your receiver has it.

There you have it, that should be a good starting point for ya.
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post #1393 of 1406 Old 04-07-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodean View Post

Since I don't have an SPL meter, any good starting points?
There are two simple methods you can use to set the volume on your sub. The easiest way is just to play one of your favorite demo scenes from a movie you know and enjoy and listen to the bass. Adjust the volume until it sounds right to you. The other way is to run the test tones thru your receiver and adjust the subs volume until it sounds level with the other speakers. I have my PL-200 volume set around the 11 o'clock setting with the phase at 0. I also have the crossover bypassed because I'm using the crossover in my AVR. You do this by setting the switch to crossover out.

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post #1394 of 1406 Old 04-07-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raistline View Post

For starters, Have your phase set to 0, crossover to Out, and under most situations you should not have the SUB volume at 12 o'clock, I would suggest no higher than 10 o'clock. Make sure your receiver is set to work with a subwoofer and has high-pass filter set to between 80-100 hz depending on the capability of your existing speakers and set low pass filtered at 80hz on the rest.

If you have not done the subwoofer crawl I highly suggest that you do it, you will most likely be surprised at where the best placement is for your room. After doing the subwoofer crawl run Audyssey or YPAO if your receiver has it.

There you have it, that should be a good starting point for ya.
Exactly....I forgot to suggest doing a crawl. smile.gif

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #1395 of 1406 Old 04-09-2014, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

Any idea on how to improve this sub for use in music? I know it's not known for being good with music, but outside of running it +5 or more hot I was wondering if there was anything else I could do to help improve.

When I play music I usually hook up laptop up via HDMI.

I probably listen a little more to music than I watch movies with this sub and it sounds really good for music to my ears. And I don't change the setting when I switch to a movie or a CD. So what exactly are people complaining about when they say that it's not a great sub for music? To my ears, it, in no way sounds boomy and I have mine set to around the 11:30 position, which, might be a bit aggressive for some people here. To my ears, it's a very nice, taught bass with no hint of "boominess" or distortion at that level. So what exactly are people complaining about when they say it's not a great sub for music?


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post #1396 of 1406 Old 04-10-2014, 09:35 AM
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I should note that the way that I'm connecting this sub is different then perhaps most people here. I'm not using the LFE input, instead, I'm using the high-level speaker inputs/outputs and then continuing the run onto my main speakers. I've read somewhere that by using the LFE input, there is a several DB boost to the signal relative to using the speaker inputs. So perhaps my 11:30ish gain position is equivalent to something below the 10:00 position for those who use the LFE input.
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post #1397 of 1406 Old 04-10-2014, 09:42 AM
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Also, I feel that this sub sounds so good with *both* music and movies, that I purchased a second one. Now I have one on each side of the room.
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post #1398 of 1406 Old 04-10-2014, 08:58 PM
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Where can I buy this sub from?
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post #1399 of 1406 Old 04-11-2014, 07:40 AM
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There is normally an advertisement to purchase this sub near the top of this thread. Just click on it. If they are unavailable, just keep checking back every few days. Eventually they should be back in stock.
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post #1400 of 1406 Old 07-07-2014, 07:18 PM
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FYI, anyone looking, This sub is now on sale at Amazon.com for Unser 260
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post #1401 of 1406 Old 08-15-2014, 10:46 AM
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This sub will be in my possession very very soon...

Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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post #1402 of 1406 Old 08-20-2014, 11:21 AM
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Could anyone point me to where I can find an owner's manual for the PL-200 online?

Here's a second question: Could someone explain what the "High-level amplifier inputs" are for, and why they only seem to accept speaker wires? I would like to connect a two-channel stereo pre-amp outputs to the PL-200. The place of the main "sub-in" subwoofer input on the PL-200 is taken by the cable running from the sub-out/pre-out jack on my av receiver (this is for regular multi-channel bass-management). Other subs have supplementary line-level L & R inputs that I have used for 2-channel music with my stereo pre-amp, but all I can see on the PL-200 are those "High-level amplifier inputs" with only seem to accept speaker wire connection, and no other line-level inputs apart from the main LFE Sub-in jack.

Any helpful explanations would be welcome.

Basically, My pre-amp has line-level L & R rca audio outs, which I have connected to Line level RCA L & R inputs for successful 2-channel bass management on other subs (e.g. the Polk PSW 505). I am wondering whether the same can be done with the PL-200.

Thanks.
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post #1403 of 1406 Old 08-27-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post
Could anyone point me to where I can find an owner's manual for the PL-200 online?

Here's a second question: Could someone explain what the "High-level amplifier inputs" are for, and why they only seem to accept speaker wires? I would like to connect a two-channel stereo pre-amp outputs to the PL-200. The place of the main "sub-in" subwoofer input on the PL-200 is taken by the cable running from the sub-out/pre-out jack on my av receiver (this is for regular multi-channel bass-management). Other subs have supplementary line-level L & R inputs that I have used for 2-channel music with my stereo pre-amp, but all I can see on the PL-200 are those "High-level amplifier inputs" with only seem to accept speaker wire connection, and no other line-level inputs apart from the main LFE Sub-in jack.

Any helpful explanations would be welcome.

Basically, My pre-amp has line-level L & R rca audio outs, which I have connected to Line level RCA L & R inputs for successful 2-channel bass management on other subs (e.g. the Polk PSW 505). I am wondering whether the same can be done with the PL-200.

Thanks.
Q1: I've not seen one available on-line, maybe BIC America tech support can email one to you.

Q2: As you have already correctly determined, the PL-200 only offers one, "low-level" RCA input, labeled "Sub In". If you also want 2-channel audio going through the sub, why not use the "high-level", speaker wire inputs/outputs? That's what I use. Just disconnect the speaker wires that are already going to your speakers and connect them to the "speaker inputs", then, run another set of speaker wires from the "speaker output" terminals back to your speakers. Next, by placing the crossover bypass switch to "out", now allows your AVR to manage the cross-over value.


By providing speaker wire inputs and *outputs*, it allows you to do the very thing that your wanting to do, use the sub to handle the low end of the frequency spectrum of 2-channel audio.

Another option is to consider purchasing more subs. I've noticed a *significant improvement* to the SPL of the lower frequencies than what 1 PL-200 can do by itself.


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post #1404 of 1406 Old 08-27-2014, 05:28 PM
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Incidentally, the PL-200 is now *on sale* again.

Sub $260 with shipping!

A great time to add to the collection. But better hurry, they don't stay on sale very long.


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post #1405 of 1406 Old 09-02-2014, 06:32 AM
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I ordered the pl-200 this morning to replace my pinnacle ac100. IT will be playing along side the polk RTi A5 and CSi A6 mains and center that i also ordered to match my Polk FXi A4 surrounds. I really hope it all comes together nicely and they get along with each other! LOL

I do not condone what i do, but i will not deny myself the pleasure!
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post #1406 of 1406 Old 10-06-2014, 10:43 PM
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This forum has helped me out many times with various issues, but today is the day that I cannot find a solution and am getting very frustrated.

I just put together a new home theater system with the following:

Receiver: Yamaha HTR-3066
Fronts: BIC DV64
Center: BIC DV62CLRS
Surrounds: Fluance XL7S
Sub: BIC Acoustech PL-200

That said, I just switched out subs because I wanted a little more bass than the Polk PSW505 had to offer. This is where my problems started...

Long story short, the sub plays fine at low volumes. But immediately shuts off or goes into protection at a certain level (which is not very loud at all...) I have to turn the system volume down and unplug the sub in order to get it to come back on. At first YPAO set the sub to -10db, so I figured that maybe the sub was not getting a strong enough signal from the receiver. I turned it to around +2db (at one point I even turned it up to +7), and set the knob to about 9 o'clock. Same thing happens when the sub gets to a certain volume. I have no idea how to fix this, but if someone could please I would be very grateful. BIC customer support is closed on the weekend



Also: I have the sub volume knob set to 10 o'clock (~30%), crossover knob set to max, speakers set to small, etc. I think I have it set up correctly, but who knows, I am still pretty new to this stuff.




UPDATE:

Well I ended up re-arranging my entire system/living room and also let the sub play at low volumes for a while in hopes that it just needed to loosen up :shrugs:

After rearrangement, I think that I have placed this sub a little bit better or it has loosened up, as it sounds better. Strangely enough, the PSW505 sounded fine in that old location.

Anyway, I also reran YPAO a few times after reading that I should shoot for +/- 0DB for the sub.

Anyway, the sub sounds much better, but the output/volume still is not there. This room is rather small, 12x12 ish, and the sub still turns off if I try to turn the system volume past -38db, especially when a low bass note hits.

Have I just reached the maximum output of this sub?

Anyone have any ideas?

I really would appreciate your thoughts and input.
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