HSU VTF-2 MK3 or PA-120 or other? for Music LARGE room - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: For a very large room should I go for qty 1-HSU VTF-2 MK3 or qty 2-PA-120?
Qty 1, HSU VTF-2 MK3 0 0%
Qty 2, Premier Acoustics PA-120 0 0%
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post #1 of 14 Old 05-29-2009, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok so my brother in law just got a new set of Martin Logans+ sub and it has made me realize I desperately need to upgrade my speakers. I'm new to quality audio and need some advice.

I have been doing research on my own a here is what I came up with.

Here is what Im looking for and would really apreciate some of everyones opinions and advice.

Bellow is a picture of my huge room, it measures around 30' X 21' x 10' high.

I want to get a sub or subs for this. My listening ins about 70% music 20% Games and 10% Home Theater. I like tight punchy bass not boomy bass even for my HT viewing/ listing I will sacrifice loud for tight and accurate.

I have a budget of around $700.00 for the sub(s) and may be able to add another for around the same in a year or so.

I'm Considering:

Qty 1, HSU VTF-2 MK 3

Or

Qty 2, Premier Acoustic PA-120

Thoughts?

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post #2 of 14 Old 05-29-2009, 12:34 PM
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The VTF-2 MK3 is a much better choice all the way around and especially for music. Multiple PA-120s should provide you with more SPLs and that is a large area, however since your preference is mostly music you'll be much happier with the HSU. I'd go with the VTF-2 and even 3 if you can swing it in that large area. You'll be even happier for the next year until you can add another.
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post #3 of 14 Old 05-29-2009, 04:00 PM
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I have dual PA-120's..... they are not boomy at all...

now I have heard and compared multi thousand dollar systems and subs at CES in vegas .... I personally cant afford them,,, but having a love for good recorded music and having done my own critical listening for my own car audio system to make it equal to the best home systems as far as soundquality goes..... having spent thousands of dollars on my competition sound system trying to buy the amps/subs/speakers/stereo/wires
I have decided that... not unless u are involved in a home audio competition,,,, most expensive gears arent worth spending the money for... not unless ur money is burning a hole in ur pocket and dont mind spending the money and u just have to have it.....

I have noticed that truly accurate subs dont sound great as ppl thinkthey should ... ppl have this misconception of what great subs should sound like and it isnt correct

if u are used to good recordings,,, and u KNOW what u are hearing and how things should sound and ur willing to spend that extra large amount of money to obtain it... then go for the HSU or any other big sub.... if you dont practice the art of sitting in front of ur stereo speakers listening for every lil detail,, movement,, placement of instrument,,, width/depth of sounstage and center image then maybe spending all that money isnt worth it

I enjoy my PA-120's... they sound like they should... I have no complaints even with the most complex of music... I alsohave a verylarge room

I say do this... find a high end home audio store and take a listen to their reference system and see if spending the money is worth it... or see if u can find something that cost a fraction of the cost and sound just as good....

just my .02
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-30-2009, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Jae thanks for the input good food for thought. So easy to get wraped up in the very fine details when buying audio gear.

I'm no audiophile but I know quality that sounds good and I can tell when it is cheap and sounds bad. I don't want to waste money on best buy gear that I will regret 2 years from now.

I just want it to sound good, it does not have to be perfect just quality audio, that I enjoy. Unfortunately where I live there is no high(er) end audio stores within 150miles so I cannot go listen to them, so why I'm here asking for advice from people that know something about audio gear.
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-30-2009, 07:28 AM
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well dont let me steer you to one direction or another... I prefer to have u lookat both sides equally and look at the pros and cons

for example for me this is what I came up with
A2-300 and the STF-2
pros,,
low freq stability,,, reputable company,,,, loud ,, recommended by many

cons,,
cost,,, looks,,, additional cost for dual set up ,, will I really be able to playit to its potential (townhome living )


PA-120
pros,,
cost, cost for duals, appearance,, decent to good reviews (happy owners ),, good frequency response for being a budget sub,,, better than what I had originally

cons,,
might not be as great as the A2-300/STF-2..

to my surprise the PA-120 was much better than what I expected,,, (I went into it expecting just the absolute minumum ) ... and my dual set up... was WAY more than what I expected.... was expecting a 3dB gain across the board.... it was more like 6dB gain a huge diference...

im sure I would have been happier with the A2-300/STF-2... but that would mean spending more for the sub itself and then extra for a piano gloss finish

everyone has their reasons
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post #6 of 14 Old 05-31-2009, 11:26 PM
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has anyone heard the PA-120 and the HSU? what are your impressions?
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post #7 of 14 Old 05-31-2009, 11:53 PM
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i have only heard the hsu stf-2 at the hsu company,,, i wasnt impressed with the sound.. maybe it was just me..
i didnt care too much for the location of it.. behind the main seating area isnt an option for me so the tacticle sensations i was getting i knew i would NOT get in my house..
it kind of ruined the listening experience for me since the location wasnt a possible one for me.. maybe i was expecting too much from the lil sub..

im sure it would sound really nice but for me the cost turned me off along with the first impression.. im sure i would have to go back and listen again and this time with an open frame of mind and do some critical listening

it would be nice if i could borrow one and do an A/B comparison and do a nice review on both... i have the music cd's for it.. one can always dream..lol
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post #8 of 14 Old 06-01-2009, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangosalsa View Post

has anyone heard the PA-120 and the HSU? what are your impressions?

I just received the VTF-2 Mk 3 last week. I am more than pleased. I'm still fooling with it but I could not be happier.
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post #9 of 14 Old 06-01-2009, 07:57 AM
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I’ve owned the PA-120 for about 6months. Although it is great sounding for movies, for music, I preferred something tighter. The bass was there. It’s just not as controlled as I would have liked. No matter where I put it or what setting I had. It just didn’t work out. I have also considered a Hsu sub for music, but instead went with the Epik Dragon for the extra head room.

My space looks like ¾ size of your room. If you can, get the VTF-3 MK3 for the extra headroom and will be happy for many years.
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-01-2009, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

I've owned the PA-120 for about 6months. Although it is great sounding for movies, for music, I preferred something tighter. The bass was there. It's just not as controlled as I would have liked. No matter where I put it or what setting I had. It just didn't work out. I have also considered a Hsu sub for music, but instead went with the Epik Dragon for the extra head room.

My space looks like ¾ size of your room. If you can, get the VTF-3 MK3 for the extra headroom and will be happy for many years.

for 800 dollars more I would hope so...lol

the price difference with the HSU vtf-2 mk3 is a lil.... more in cost than the PA-120

now comparing just single subs in the right set up... im sure the HSU will sound better,,,, but is it worth the additional cost

the dual PA-120's will allow for a smoother bass response,,,,

I personally enjoyed the sound of the single sub,,, but my dual set up is evenmore impressive
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post #11 of 14 Old 06-01-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaejw1 View Post

now comparing just single subs in the right set up... im sure the HSU will sound better,,,, but is it worth the additional cost

As someone who has taken both routes through the upgrade path I would say positively YES, without a doubt.

Given the ops statement of "I like tight punchy bass", his preference geared toward music and his possible intent to add another in a year or so (which will probably be a necessity in that size room) I would recommend he go for the VTF-2 or even 3 if possible.

I can say for sure through my experiences that going the less expensive route can and probably will cost more in the end with upgrades and changing subs isn't fun either with the size and weight.

I've had both the Bic H-100 which is similar to the PA120 and the VTF-2 in my system and there really is no comparison. The H-100 was a great sub at it's price point I'd recommend it or the PA-120 to anyone looking for a sub with a $200 budget but it's strong suit definitely wasn't music which the op has listed that as a priority.
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post #12 of 14 Old 06-01-2009, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

Given the ops statement of "I like tight punchy bass", his preference geared toward music and his possible intent to add another in a year or so (which will probably be a necessity in that size room) I would recommend he go for the VTF-2 or even 3 if possible.


yeah i forgot about that..


something funny though... im a newb to these forum.. but im definately no stranger to good reorded music and good sounding speakers.. i have about 15 yrs of experience with researching/listening to home audio and actually competing in sound quality for car audio..

with that said.. do ppl really know what they are asking for in a sub... what reference are they going by.. i think if every person asking about sub so-and-so then the answer would be more precise and not just opinions..

question.. would one good sub be better than 2 good quality budget subs... ????

have you considered dual stf-2's or something similar in that price range... buying a single sub with that size room will lead to having room modes... not every seat will have equal bass response.. thats one of the reasons to running duals.. and since music is important to you ,, you dont want to hear different bass notes as you walk around the living room..

i know im rambling on.. i guess im just trying to help you save money... especially in this economy but if you have the money go ahead and buy what sounds reasonable to you..

good luck and have fun..

Quorum just curious... what speakers are you running or plan on running..
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post #13 of 14 Old 06-01-2009, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quorum View Post

My listening ins about 70% music 20% Games and 10% Home Theater. I like tight punchy bass not boomy bass even for my HT viewing/ listing I will sacrifice loud for tight and accurate.

I have a budget of around $700.00 for the sub(s) and may be able to add another for around the same in a year or so.

Considering these conditions, the Rythmik Audio F12 should be thrown in the mix. If you do some searches here in the Subwoofer forum as well as the DIY forum, I think you'll find that the Rythmiks are revered for their sound quality. With a flat response down to 14Hz (actually, 13Hz) they're also capable of loosening drywall screws during spirited HT listening. I say get one now, then add another next year if necessary.

I've had my F12 for 3 weeks now and I'm still grinning ear to ear. My last sub was an Outlaw LFM-1 Compact, which is a capable sub in it's own right (sibling to the Hsu STF2/VTF1), but the Rythmik is a whole 'nuther experience.

...
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post #14 of 14 Old 06-01-2009, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again guys for all the feedback. Great info and food for thought I really appreciate it. I like the looks of that F12 Rythmik Audio Sub thanks for the suggestion. I have been looking around for a sealed non-ported sub assuming that would give me more accuracy for music, that one looks good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaejw1 View Post

Quorum just curious... what speakers are you running or plan on running..


To answer your question Jae I'm running these studio monitors. http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B2031P.aspx
At the time it was what I could afford, and they worked pretty good for music in my old house with a small intimate living room where I was able to sit pretty close to the speakers, but not so good my new big room. I had a cheap sub and used to turn it off to listen to music since I hated the muddy/ boomy sound, thus why I want to get a good sub first then I'll upgrade the fronts latter.

After the Sub purchase will come new fronts, I like the sound of my brother's Martin Logans, but I like bookshelf form factor and was looking at some of the Energy speakers. I’m really wide open when that time comes I could do just about anything in the $700-$1000 per speaker range. I'm open for suggestions?
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