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Is It Safe To Buy Dual MFWs?

68K views 1K replies 135 participants last post by  KlipschHead281 
#1 ·
I've been a supporter of AV123 for awhile, and the recent issues concerning the company and MLS have really been tough to deal with. I've always found the man and his company to be fair and generous, but I need convincing now. I'm running an Outlaw LFM-1EX, and have been very happy with it. Lately the upgrade bug has bitten, and I've been thinking about getting more subwoofage. The latest sale on MFWs is very tempting, but with all the problems they have had I need to be sure I won't be buying into trouble. I've never had an issue with any sub I purchased, and the thought of problems developing with dual MFWs has me worried. The sale will be over before the new subs ship, so I have no user data to go by. The competition is dual A5-350s from eD, or maybe dual A7s-450s. Wish I could go dual HSU ULS-15s, but that's getting too expensive. Bottom line, is it safe to order MFWs? Is the amp issue really fixed? How about the hum issues? Anything else to worry about, or are these as good a deal as they seem? MLS, are you out there? If you can personally ensure that these subs are all they should be then I will place an order, come on man! You need to get vocal again, it's been too long! Convince me (and everyone else) that the MFWs are the best deal going, and you're sure to sell a boat load.
 
#52 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike /forum/post/16618957


Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from AV123 that has a power cord. With them, active electronics have always been the kiss of death.

There, I fixed it for you. I like Mark, and I like their speakers, but for someone to pretend that their active electronics have been anything but a disaster only proves they haven't been paying attention.


I can't recall a single product they've sold with a power cord that hasn't had problems. Though I welcome someone to correct me if I'm wrong.
 
#54 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude /forum/post/16622841


I can't recall a single product they've sold with a power cord that hasn't had problems. Though I welcome someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

The amps they put on the Minis & RS1000s seemed pretty bulletproof, although very basic without even auto-on/off feature.
 
#55 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvgillow /forum/post/16622995


The amps they put on the Minis & RS1000s seemed pretty bulletproof, although very basic without even auto-on/off feature.

I personally had a RS1000 amp fail. Sandbagger had an amp from his Minis fail if I'm remember correctly, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about them being bulletproof.
 
#56 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by landalakes /forum/post/16622742


alages

I work hard for my money and i just want to spend it wisely. I do do have the woodworking talent and the tools to make most anything.

My point was that if you can make a 5.2 system that works (including powered amp(s)) then it would be my recommendation that you pursue that course instead of purchasing something from AV123 that may not work or is not delivered. Less expensive and not working correctly is not better than slightly more expensive and meeting expectations. If your money is important to you (as you indicated) then you should either build your own or purchase from a different company.

Again....that is just my opinion.
 
#57 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy /forum/post/16622781


I can't imagine a better deal than the current ELT 5.1 special. I just wish the head honcho would come out of his self imposed exile and convince everyone that his latest sale really is all it's supposed to be!

How is he supposed to do this "convince everyone", given his history of promises after promises that didn't come through or came through much later than were supposed to I personally wouldn't take anything he said at this point with anything other than a grain of salt and a quick giggle.


I totally agree everything to this point should have been handled in a different manner but as of now, the only thing that can be done is correct the amp problem, which he said has been done and start selling again and let time work everything else out. To me anything else given the history would be pissing in the wind.


The only thing we can say for sure is a working MFW is an amazing product, even at the previous sale price, with the current pricing if indeed the amp problem is corrected, which I'm pretty much personally convinced everything has been done to insure this, then it's a steal.
 
#59 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy /forum/post/16619554


"CONE of silence"......



Just playin'!


MLS has been posting quite a bit over at AV123.


First up, the announcements about the reintroduction of the MFWs with the new amps. More on replacing the old amps (first shipments of those should begin sometime next week). Now, the ELT525 + MFW for $1K deal.


Sale on the MFWs may not be extended past 6/19, based on current sell through.


In the last few weeks, I've spoken to MLS, Suzanne, Jess (and probably Kyle, at one point, too).


So, they haven't been incognito, by any stretch. MLS is posting publically. Just not here.


Gotta admit.....$500 for one MFW 15, or $900 for duals is a whole lot of LFE for the money.

Just watched Top Gun in Blu-Ray, all I can say is holy friggin crap!!! These dual MFW's have mad skills.



I wish I had room or need for the ELT deal with MFW, alas I'm trying to buy a pair of RSS300's and the wife is driving me nuts over it.
 
#60 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 /forum/post/16623445


Just watched Top Gun in Blu-Ray, all I can say is holy friggin crap!!! These dual MFW's have mad skills.



I wish I had room or need for the ELT deal with MFW, alas I'm trying to buy a pair of RSS300's and the wife is driving me nuts over it.

I'm so glad your here adding value to the OP's thread instead of just posting non related drivel.
Oh wait, I've got that backwards. Oh well...
 
#61 ·
If you have to ask, you already know the answer. So far none of their subs has been a safe purchase. Do you have enough extra money that you would feel safe walking into a shady gambling establishment, plopping down a grand on the ruelette wheel with the hope of winning two killer subs but full knowledge that you could also lose it all?


My advice is to not give AV123 any money you can't afford to lose.


As for the advice of just call them and speak to MLS. Are you kidding? Very little of what he says or posts turns out to be true. He can't even keep a promise to send an email. He is also very good at manipulating people. Whether you call him a salesman or a con man, he has a charisma and persona that sucks people in. As evidence, look at how there are still a bunch of lemmings cheering him on and telling you to trust him despite overwhelming evidence that he can't be trusted. If you don't have a healthy dose of skepticism and a good BS detector, do not call him up, you are just asking to get taken.
 
#63 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoop /forum/post/16623154


First off...answer to the question...NO its not

The MFW is in no way a superior sub then the 3.3. I have had both, and I can assure everyone that they are about equal. In my room, the 3.3 went lower. I would love to know how you came up with that conclusion...cause it's simply false.


I am not sure how you can compare a ULS equal to a MFW...???..another very strange statement.


I have often praised on how well the MFW sounded for the "MONEY"...They sound excellent, as well as the hsu 3.3...very COMPARABLE...however, given the failure rate on amps and more importantly the lack of customer service, they are no longer a great sub for the money...unless you want a lack of customer service along with a very high failure rate. As a result, I would never recomend that sub until things are definitely resolved...and they are not.

This is straight from craigsub scoring. He scored the MFW-15 higher than the 3.3 (with turbo) for both music and movies. My comment concerning the ULS-15 is that you would have to step up into that sub from HSU to best the MFW-15. Now if you are telling me that craigsub scoring is just plain off, then that is your opinion, but he has had a good track record around this forum and others and I definitely would put more stock in his scoring of a sub than just about anyone else.


And I am not advocating that anyone buy the MFW-15. Actually, I have recommended the opposite (stay away). But there is no denying that a working MFW-15 at $499+shipping cannot be touched by HSU, SVS, or eD right now based on price to performance.
 
#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by m-fine416 /forum/post/16623582


...look at how there are still a bunch of lemmings cheering him on and telling you to trust him despite overwhelming evidence that he can't be trusted...

"lemmings" might be a little harsh. However, I have wondered if some of these MLS "supporters" might have a selfish interest in seeing him succeed. Is it possible that if enough people don't ignore the problems at AV123 that the company will not survive as viable business entity? What happens to someones investment in AV123 equipment if they can't convince others to continue to purchase from MLS & Company despite their recent history? Seems as though repairs and re-sale value might suffer. Just speculating......
 
#65 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alages /forum/post/16623777


"lemmings" might be a little harsh. However, I have wondered if some of these MLS "supporters" might have a selfish interest in seeing him succeed. Is it possible that if enough people don't ignore the problems at AV123 that the company will not survive as viable business entity? What happens to someones investment in AV123 equipment if they can't convince others to continue to purchase from MLS & Company despite their recent history? Seems as though repairs and re-sale value might suffer. Just speculating......

av123 themselves have killed resale value IMHO based on the deals they have been offering as of late on new and "B" stock gear.
 
#66 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk /forum/post/16623683


This is straight from craigsub scoring. He scored the MFW-15 higher than the 3.3 (with turbo) for both music and movies. My comment concerning the ULS-15 is that you would have to step up into that sub from HSU to best the MFW-15. Now if you are telling me that craigsub scoring is just plain off, then that is your opinion, but he has had a good track record around this forum and others and I definitely would put more stock in his scoring of a sub than just about anyone else.


And I am not advocating that anyone buy the MFW-15. Actually, I have recommended the opposite (stay away). But there is no denying that a working MFW-15 at $499+shipping cannot be touched by HSU, SVS, or eD right now based on price to performance.

You can't put your faith into just one set of scoring. Different conditions, different people, and different preferences.


I have also heard an MFW-15, and owned a 3.3....not in the same room, and I felt the 3.3 sounded better, certainly not a night and day difference. If someone told me they did a side by side comparison, and thought the 3.3 was a better sub, my experience certainly wouldn't cast a doubt on what that person thought.


There are very few people that have compared an MFW-15 to another competing sub.


If I were to gamble on my money on a sub, then it is a no brainer.
 
#67 ·
No way in hell is the 3.3 gonna match the MFW in output.


sounds better is all in the ear of the beholder so to speak.


20 to 63hz avg is not even close.
 
#68 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator /forum/post/16624382


No way in hell is the 3.3 gonna match the MFW in output.


sounds better is all in the ear of the beholder so to speak.


20 to 63hz avg is not even close.

Probably true about output, but there is no test in output for the MFW-15.


True, sound is in the ear of the beholder.....but to make that judgement, you have to hear both, and not many people have.
 
#69 ·
Where else can you buy the A-stock of a Mark Seaton-designed sub, widely respected, highly regarded for $499?


And my question for the skeptics is, if MLS wanted to really shaft everyone of money, why doesn't he just take all the money and run? Why does he insist on re-outfitting existing subs with new amps, re-outfitting all subs with new amps, and continuing to make good on speaker deliveries?


The fact of the matter is that MLS got scheisted by some sleazy overseas subwoofer manufacturer. We can't really blame him for that.


The Rocket speakers I have are fantastic. The reviews I've read for the MFW-15, when it works, are fantastic. I've seen pictures of the new amp boards....they look good.


AV123 is way in over its head. If it doesn't deliver, it's entire reputation will be toast over the subwoofer. Based on that, I believe they will deliver.
 
#70 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alages /forum/post/16623777


"lemmings" might be a little harsh. However, I have wondered if some of these MLS "supporters" might have a selfish interest in seeing him succeed. Is it possible that if enough people don't ignore the problems at AV123 that the company will not survive as viable business entity? What happens to someones investment in AV123 equipment if they can't convince others to continue to purchase from MLS & Company despite their recent history? Seems as though repairs and re-sale value might suffer. Just speculating......

I don't plan on ever selling my AV123 products to anyone, and I own:


a pair of Strata Mini's

a pair of LS-6's

a pair of MFW's

a pair of MTM's

5 pair of X-CS's


I couldn't be happier with the quality I have received on their products. Just incredible value. And Kyle and all of their CS reps have never been anything but professional and incredibly helpful.


That being said, I am still waiting on my $1100 worth of refund from Mark, which I've been awaiting since SEPTEMBER of last year. For that reason, I would recommend that any and all dealings w/ AV123 be for in-stock items, and through AV123 ONLY.


I'm not going to pretend -- Mark and I have had numerous correspondences and phone conversations, and I think he means well, but I think that he has had some serious PERSONAL cashflow problems that make me entirely unwilling to recommend anything from his PERSONAL brand (The Graham Company).


My sincere hope is that he turns things around personally, both with his finances as well as his health.
 
#71 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyriderfox /forum/post/16624635


Where else can you buy the A-stock of a Mark Seaton-designed sub, widely respected, highly regarded for $499?

You can't.

Quote:
And my question for the skeptics is, if MLS wanted to really shaft everyone of money, why doesn't he just take all the money and run? Why does he insist on re-outfitting existing subs with new amps, re-outfitting all subs with new amps, and continuing to make good on speaker deliveries?

He is presently holding monies from a fair amount of people and for considerable amounts of time while not delivering product. He's holding monies from people who have defective products and are waiting for replacements. The MFW isn't the only sub that they sell that has amp issues. Those folks have products that are under warranty and there's not been a peep from the company commander and his subordinates on that. If he does run, and that means AV123 folds, then he'll be subject to criminal prosecution.

As to why he's providing replacement amps, well that's part of the warranty everyone has, no? So long as he's not Chapter 11 or worse he's obligated to adhere to the terms of the sale. As to making good on speaker deliveries, he might do well to make good on prior commitments too.

Quote:
The fact of the matter is that MLS got scheisted by some sleazy overseas subwoofer manufacturer. We can't really blame him for that.

Yes we can. We can blame him for not properly vetting the company. We can blame him for not hiring the right people to do so if he's incapable of doing so. We can blame him for not having a QC program in place to ensure uniform quality across the board. He is guilty of incompetence. He enjoys taking your money so let the buck stop where it's supposed to and demand some accountability for God's sake.
Quote:
The Rocket speakers I have are fantastic. The reviews I've read for the MFW-15, when it works, are fantastic. I've seen pictures of the new amp boards....they look good.

When it works...
Quote:
AV123 is way in over its head. If it doesn't deliver, it's entire reputation will be toast over the subwoofer. Based on that, I believe they will deliver.

It's do or die for sure. However, he's got a lot of issues that need addressing besides the MFW and the public is going to keep the pressure on until he lives up to his and the company's promises. He might start by not taking so much money out and hiring the right people to oversee the management of the company.
 
#72 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie /forum/post/16624828


I don't plan on ever selling my AV123 products to anyone, and I own:


a pair of Strata Mini's

a pair of LS-6's

a pair of MFW's

a pair of MTM's

5 pair of X-CS's


I couldn't be happier with the quality I have received on their products. Just incredible value. And Kyle and all of their CS reps have never been anything but professional and incredibly helpful.


That being said, I am still waiting on my $1100 worth of refund from Mark, which I've been awaiting since SEPTEMBER of last year. For that reason, I would recommend that any and all dealings w/ AV123 be for in-stock items, and through AV123 ONLY.


I'm not going to pretend -- Mark and I have had numerous correspondences and phone conversations, and I think he means well, but I think that he has had some serious PERSONAL cashflow problems that make me entirely unwilling to recommend anything from his PERSONAL brand (The Graham Company).


My sincere hope is that he turns things around personally, both with his finances as well as his health.

I want to see a doctor's note that's been notarized. He's always sick.
 
#73 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang /forum/post/16624334


You can't put your faith into just one set of scoring. Different conditions, different people, and different preferences.


I have also heard an MFW-15, and owned a 3.3....not in the same room, and I felt the 3.3 sounded better, certainly not a night and day difference. If someone told me they did a side by side comparison, and thought the 3.3 was a better sub, my experience certainly wouldn't cast a doubt on what that person thought.


There are very few people that have compared an MFW-15 to another competing sub.


If I were to gamble on my money on a sub, then it is a no brainer.

Interesting! One thing I've overlooked in this is if the MFWs would actually be a marked improvement over my LFM-1EX. The Outlaw subs are "cousins" to the HSU subs, and are reported to be very similar sonically. Maybe just adding a second EX would make the most sense. I'm starting to feel like this might not be the best time to rejoin the AV123 "family"!
 
#74 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk /forum/post/16623683


This is straight from craigsub scoring. He scored the MFW-15 higher than the 3.3 (with turbo) for both music and movies. My comment concerning the ULS-15 is that you would have to step up into that sub from HSU to best the MFW-15. Now if you are telling me that craigsub scoring is just plain off, then that is your opinion, but he has had a good track record around this forum and others and I definitely would put more stock in his scoring of a sub than just about anyone else.


And I am not advocating that anyone buy the MFW-15. Actually, I have recommended the opposite (stay away). But there is no denying that a working MFW-15 at $499+shipping cannot be touched by HSU, SVS, or eD right now based on price to performance.

Here we go again with this craigsub list...First off, his scoring is not the bible and he will tell you so. How much superior is a sub if its higher in points then another...do you really no sound wise? My guess is, you would not. My buddy has a MFW and have heard it in my room and his and I liked it...ALOT. It seemed there was a wait for an MFW, so I purchased the 3.3. Then I compared it to the MFW in my room and hauled my 3.3 over his place and compared it also. Superior...no way...Similar, sure. I did not do any high tech testing other then seeing how low they went and how loud they were when they went there lowest and that was it. My room, the 3.3 was lower and his room almost equal...still don't understand that but I am not in the science of subs.


REGARDLESS, your statement early is completely off "bass". I am not bashing MFW, but until there problem is resolved, I just wouldn't recomend buying that sub. When it does get resolved, I would more then happy to recomend the product. It is an excellent product with unfortunately currently inferior parts. If they would just put something in reliable and raise the price to compensate, people would still by...considering its still lower in price then many subs out there with regards to performance...and customer service...I will not go there.
 
#75 ·
Some like to revert to name calling. That's OK. Wouldn't be the first time I've heard derogatory remarks hurled my way.


But, as a person who does own more than a few speakers from AV123, and a current owner of an MFW, I couldn't be happier with my purchases, their performance, or their looks.


So. is it safe to buy duals (trying to stay on topic)? You want opinions. Plenty of them here. Some from owners who have legitimate beefs....some from people who've never ordered a single piece from AV123.


GM is headed for bankruptcy. I'm not going to run out and sell my 2 year old Tahoe because of that. It runs great and has never had any issues while in my possession. There's no doubt in my mind that I'll get 150K miles out of it with little in the way of issues....just like the previous one I owned. Other Tahoe owners don't feel the same.


Same deal with AV123. My gear has been sterling, sounds great, looks even better. At the off chance that they do close their doors, that doesn't change.


To me, if AV123 was going to shutter their doors, it would have happened before now. As it is, I think they've turned the corner. If you would have asked me their status 4-5 months ago, I would have given them a 50-50 shot. Today, they're delivering speakers, fixing sub amp problems, and moving in the right direction.


Before the year's out, I'll probably buy more speakers from them, and perhaps another MFW.


IF you're worried, buy MFWs with a credit card. My previous sub blew up. When I submitted my claim to my CC company, they had indeed extended the warranty on it and sent me a check to have it fixed. I took that check and bought the MFW.


I'll repeat, buy what you want, from whom you want. Call me names if you want. It really doesn't matter to me.


I've been a long time AV123 customer. And, I've been pleased with them....even when things went sideways.


It's your money. I can't see another sub, for the money, that can out perform the MFW, nor look anywhere nearly as good as MFWs do.
 
#76 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUMoneyMan /forum/post/16624685


You are the biggest AV123 ass kisser of them all. Give it a rest already.

He has just as much right to post a positive comment as the people who post constant negative comments, as often as they all like.
 
#77 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie /forum/post/16624828


I am still waiting on my $1100 worth of refund from Mark, which I've been awaiting since SEPTEMBER of last year

What else needs to be said?

If MLS still cannot refund $1100.00 from September 2008, why would anyone commit any more money to him?

Invest your hard earned dollars elsewhere....this dog has fleas.
 
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