Is It Safe To Buy Dual MFWs? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

As I said, I urge anyone to call the principals of any of these ID companies to get a better picture of what they're all about.

This is the best advice here. We all know companies are completely open and honest. Never ask anyone for references or look at reviews. Just trust everything they tell you.
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post #92 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisOneKidMongo View Post

I thought the X-Sub was okay?

nope--it had problems too
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post #93 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 10:12 AM
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Per the requests for independent reviews of the MFW (already posted craigsub rankings).....

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=46337

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #94 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 10:24 AM
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That's fair enough and to illustrate the opposite side of the coin, albeit not performance, here's another link.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #95 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The HSU VTF-3 MK3 is $699+100 shipping. And I think the MFW-15 would be considered a superior sub. The HSU ULS-15 is $1099 + $60 shipping and handling and would be a more comparable sub to the MFW-15 performance wise.
.


Fair enough...I may have mis interpretted your first staement above...a problem with forum duiscussions. I was under assummtion by your statement that the MFW is far more superior sub then the 3.3.

Hey, I liked the MFW and if they had no problems, I could have been an MFW guy.
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post #96 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 11:36 AM
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I own and operated 2 businesses. I know the day to day problems that you can have with suppliers, customers, banks, ect.

It seams sloppy that you would announce a new sale on your own closed forums. Promise an e-mail that never comes. And put one picture on your website that says "open the floodgates" but have no mention of the sale on your site. And no way to order on your site.

I operate company stores for my clients. I can go online and change a graphic or add a product in about 1 minute. All businesses have problems, but its how you deal with them that really counts. It doesn't seam like these guys have a clue on how to get back on the right track.
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post #97 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisOneKidMongo View Post

I thought the X-Sub was okay?

They were minor compared to the problems the other subs have had, but there were still problems. The most common, I believe, and the one I had was with the auto-on circuit not detecting that a signal was present.
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post #98 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

How about you post your non-helpful to the OP / pro AV123 cheerleading in another thread? The OP wants to know if it's safe to buy dual MFW-15's and you just post about how much your MFW-15's rock. Just like you always do. That's not a helpful post.

Well gosh Meeester forum cop, thanks for putting me back in my place, you go boy!

Quote:


We all know you're in love with your MFW-15's and you think they're the greatest thing ever. We all know they can break things, etc, etc, etc... Your anecdotes are unrelated and not beneficial except to sub salt in the wounds of the people who have ongoing problems.

Well then, I'm glad this isn't "Stereodude's" forum... you don't decide what is and isn't helpful. As for salt, you are the spokesman for all aren't you. How thoughtful. NOT.

Quote:


The OP is clearly aware of their performance when working. He wants to know if the problems are past. Just because there are still some working MFW-15's, that amaze their owners with every movie watched, out in the field doesn't mean the new ones are a safe buy.

Maybe the OP should post what he feels, not Stereodude, since you are NOT the OP. Obviously you have disdain towards the MFW, that is clear to everyone so how about you post what you post and leave the moderation to those that do it well.

Ask for a forum promotion to the seeker of off topic posts, but then I'm sure you are one of those in the back ground PM'ing the mods crying like you were wronged or something because a thread isn't on topic as you see it. Doctor heal thyself.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #99 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOOCHY View Post

I have a B-stock MFW-15 from last year that still kicks all kinds of ass. I'll be adding another B-stock most likely before the end of the year. The performance for the money is unbeatable. Every interaction I've ever had with AV123 has been quick and courteous.

Glad to see the same group of guys are piling on in this thread. Waiting on Pure-Evil (Jinx) to join in on the gang bang. Only then will it be complete.

GOOCHY, posting that your MFW's still kick arse is off topic and not relevant to the OP, please abide by Stereodude...

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #100 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

You expected something else? The same cheerleaders (yourself included) join every thread and post non helpful and irrelevant anecdotes about how much your MFW-15(s) rock and/or about how your experience with AV123 was fine.

There can only be a few possible conclusions drawn from your and others posts.

1) The cheerleaders are just trolling.

2) The cheerleaders think that everyone who posts warnings about AV123 or certain AV123 products is lying.

3) The cheerleaders think that the concerns posted about AV123 or certain AV123 products are irrelevant and/or invalid.

Which of the three camps do you fall into?

And this roll of drivel is what, relevant to this thread? Too funny..

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #101 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by swgiust View Post

I own and operated 2 businesses.

Wow, that's amazing.

Regards,
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post #102 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

Ask for a forum promotion to the seeker of off topic posts, but then I'm sure you are one of those in the back ground PM'ing the mods crying like you were wronged or something because a thread isn't on topic as you see it. Doctor heal thyself.

I'm all healed now. Do you need some mental healing?
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post #103 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I'm all healed now. Do you need some mental healing?

I think many in here do. I must say, reading these threads for the past several months has had it's amusing moments. With all the jabs, some factual, most not, taken from both sides If I were in the market for a sub wouldn't change my view of the MFW, AV123 or MLS one way or the other.
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post #104 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 03:23 PM
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This thread is heading the way of all of the other AV123 threads.

The apologists make excuses.
Others hurl insults.

Basically -- AV123 has demonstrated for YEARS a history of overpromising/underdelivering products, delays of sometimes years, outright lying, etc. If the MFW was the first time...then there wouldn't be this anger. But it certainly is not.

When you combine shoddy products, poor customer service, and suspect business practices...there is no reason to EVER buy that product again.

How people can recommend AV123/MLS at this time is simply unfathomable.

John
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post #105 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 03:39 PM
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I know I'm not quite as prolific a poster here versus other forums, but per the OP's request, I will throw in my suggestion as well.

If it were me and I were in the sub market, I would pass on the MFW.

Will the new amps work? Probably.

But this whole experience has really disenchanted me. Throughout this trying extremely drawn out process I have had several private conversations that have given me cause to further question his business practices.

It's saying something that I'd rather spend more money for equal or less performance than buy another MFW, or any other product with an electrical cord from AV123. There are ever increasing choices where to spend $$ from id companies that don't have the black eye that av123 has.

Again, just imo, ymmv, yada yada, etc....
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post #106 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I'm all healed now. Do you need some mental healing?

You're all healed now, you betcha. My mental health is just fine, but we are off topic, you wouldn't want to get chastised by the forum cop now would you?

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #107 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 View Post

This thread is heading the way of all of the other AV123 threads.

The apologists make excuses.
Others hurl insults.

Basically -- AV123 has demonstrated for YEARS a history of overpromising/underdelivering products, delays of sometimes years, outright lying, etc. If the MFW was the first time...then there wouldn't be this anger. But it certainly is not.

When you combine shoddy products, poor customer service, and suspect business practices...there is no reason to EVER buy that product again.

How people can recommend AV123/MLS at this time is simply unfathomable.

It would probably help if they stuck to getting the issues resolved prior to having these big sales which seem to just feed the anger. But then they have to drum up cash so damned if you do and damned if you don't.

To go back to topic so Stereodude doesn't have an embolism, at this time based on the customer service I have received I would by from them again.

I'm not an apologist, I have never posted anything but my experience with them over a short period. But I do know for the now 8 speakers I have purchased, they have not charged my card until each order shipped and each item was packed well and everything worked.

If they continue to have problems with the new amps, hopefully their warranty takes care of it. I think others feel the same way because they realize the value these speakers have for the money.

So, OP, good luck with your decision, I'm sure whatever you buy will work well for you.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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post #108 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 07:12 PM
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I found this rather strange and troublesome.

If MLS can't refund a measly $1100 since last September then how can av123 functions as a company?
I thought a company in av123 caliber should have a strong financial position?
This starts to bother me as a potential customer.

And he has a personal company called The Graham Company?
I don't know what to make of this.

Back to more reading then.

Very strange indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post


That being said, I am still waiting on my $1100 worth of refund from Mark, which I've been awaiting since SEPTEMBER of last year. For that reason, I would recommend that any and all dealings w/ AV123 be for in-stock items, and through AV123 ONLY.

I'm not going to pretend -- Mark and I have had numerous correspondences and phone conversations, and I think he means well, but I think that he has had some serious PERSONAL cashflow problems that make me entirely unwilling to recommend anything from his PERSONAL brand (The Graham Company).

My sincere hope is that he turns things around personally, both with his finances as well as his health.

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post #109 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 07:18 PM
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Graphicguy,

Thanks again.

Can you tell me which product(s) did MLS design?

I started my reading and found out he was involved in Genesis a long time ago with Arnie Nudell and Paul McGowan but couldn't find any specifics as to what was designed by MLS.

Also, I read up a little on Swan speakers and they seem to be good speakers but also couldn't find any info as to why MLS stopped selling them.

Thanks,


Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Shis....not a problem. You can find out more about Swan here...

http://www.swanspeaker.com/

They are now sold by this company...

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/

Sounds like you're already familiar with EMOTIVA. They make great products. While I don't have any experience with their speakers, I did have their LMC/LPA gear in my system for a good long while. They did have some teething problems with their LMC pre-pro, but they got them sorted out. Both products are retired, however.

Dan did indeed launch the EMOTIVA brand, along with Lonnie. Early on, EMOTIVA was marketed by AV123, before they went out on their own, including sales and marketing. It's been awhile, but I've had the pleasure of speaking with both Dan and Lonnie. Both great guys. Whenever possible, I always urge anyone to contact the principal's with any of these ID companies to get information instead of speculation....doesn't matter if it's EMOTIVA, or AV123, or any of the other ID companies.

Regarding MLS and AV123, sometimes MLS sends off design work to other respected sources, sometimes his design hand is more involved. Depends on the product. With the MFW, Mark Seaton actually designed it (http://seatonsound.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=1942660). Mark also sells his own, higher end sub, the Seaton Submersive. You can read more about it in this thread.....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877

Older interview (about 5 years), but here's a video interview that should give you some feel for MLS's background....

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/video...k-schifter.mov

Not entirely up-to-date to where AV123 is today, as things have changed a bit (they also build speakers in Cali, Columbia) and some of their dealings in China has changed.

Hope that helps cut through some of the noise. As I said, I urge anyone to call the principals of any of these ID companies to get a better picture of what they're all about.

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post #110 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

It would probably help if they stuck to getting the issues resolved prior to having these big sales which seem to just feed the anger. But then they have to drum up cash so damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Why would you be so quick to gloss over the one relevant thing you have offered?

I think most of us agree that they need to keep having these sales, despite not having reliable products in stock, because they need to drum up cash. The problem with doing business with a company that has to keep drumming up cash is what happens if they fail to get enough cash one of these days? Unless the firm or its employees are big Obama contributors, bye bye company, bye bye pre-payments, bye bye warranty, bye bye upgrades and support.

IT IS NOT SAFE to buy products from a small business that has cash problems. Sure if the product is rock solid and the odds of ever needing warranty work are extremely small you not care if the company goes away a second after you get your unit. Clearly that has never been the case with AV123 subs.

How the sub performs, how it ranks next to other units, who makes the forum rules and all that crap have nothing to do with how SAFE it is to buy an MFW. We are talking about a company with a history of dishonesty and broken promises, a history of quality and reliability issues, and cash flow problems. These are all facts that are easily verified with public information. In light of these facts, how can anyone say it is SAFE to buy an MFW at this point in time is beyond me.
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post #111 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by m-fine416 View Post

Unless the firm or its employees are big Obama contributors, bye bye company,

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post #112 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisnotindahouse View Post

I found this rather strange and troublesome.

If MLS can't refund a measly $1100 since last September then how can av123 functions as a company?
I thought a company in av123 caliber should have a strong financial position?
This starts to bother me as a potential customer.

And he has a personal company called The Graham Company?
I don't know what to make of this.

Back to more reading then.

Very strange indeed.

Mark was selling both B-stock and some A-stock AV123 products on the AV123 forum, but using his personal Paypall account to accept payment. That account belongs to "The Graham Company" which I believe is named after one of his dogs. For a while, AV123 refused to help people who had not received their AV123 products purchased from AV123 forum sales because they claimed they were purchased from Mark and not the company.
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post #113 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

and some of their dealings in China has changed.

As in Mark/AV123 are no longer owners/partners in the SAC factory, and now have to go to other factories to get their products manufactured. This is not a minor change, as IMHO I think it has a lot to do with the quality issues and some other problems.
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post #114 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason brent View Post

I know I'm not quite as prolific a poster here versus other forums, but per the OP's request, I will throw in my suggestion as well.

If it were me and I were in the sub market, I would pass on the MFW.

Will the new amps work? Probably.

But this whole experience has really disenchanted me. Throughout this trying extremely drawn out process I have had several private conversations that have given me cause to further question his business practices.

It's saying something that I'd rather spend more money for equal or less performance than buy another MFW, or any other product with an electrical cord from AV123. There are ever increasing choices where to spend $$ from id companies that don't have the black eye that av123 has.




Again, just imo, ymmv, yada yada, etc....



I thank you for your opinion, unfortunately it makes a lot of sense. I've yet to hear from Mark, and until MLS can give some personal assurance, I really can't see how I can take the risk. Too bad, really, but things are as they are, and so far nothing seems to have changed..........
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post #115 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 08:02 PM
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[edit]I give you version 2!!!

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post #116 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 08:08 PM
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I'm scratching my head right now.

From what I have read the last couple hours, av123 was a great company when first started out with Swan speakers from HiVi.

What had happened since?

Humm.

More reading to do.
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post #117 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 08:10 PM
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Huh?

You mean MLS sold av123 products through another channel?

This is a first.

Is it proper?

This is getting stranger and stranger.

I don't think this is normal business practices at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m-fine416 View Post

Mark was selling both B-stock and some A-stock AV123 products on the AV123 forum, but using his personal Paypall account to accept payment. That account belongs to "The Graham Company" which I believe is named after one of his dogs. For a while, AV123 refused to help people who had not received their AV123 products purchased from AV123 forum sales because they claimed they were purchased from Mark and not the company.

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post #118 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisnotindahouse View Post

Huh?

You mean MLS sold av123 products through another channel?

This is a first.

Is it proper?

This is getting stranger and stranger.

I don't think this is normal business practices at all.

Not proper at all... Many weren't even aware that they were buying stuff from a 3rd company... If you want to read more, have fun! http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=53755

Quote:


madpoet wrote:
Sad this has to be my first post here. You are (sadly) not alone. Mark owes me $4125 and has for over 6 months now. Because Mark has you buy things through the Graham Company AV123 claims they are not in any way responsible even when they are AStock items and Mark is selling them through the AV123 forum. There are quite a few of us owed many, many thousands of dollars in gear and refunds. I know I am looking at legal remedies, but it's a daunting task. The truly awful part is 6 months ago I would have bet everything that Mark/AV123 would make it all right.

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post #119 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post


Okay, that's pretty funny.
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post #120 of 1011 Old 06-11-2009, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I thank you for your opinion, unfortunately it makes a lot of sense. I've yet to hear from Mark, and until MLS can give some personal assurance, I really can't see how I can take the risk. Too bad, really, but things are as they are, and so far nothing seems to have changed..........

You are certainly welcome.

This whole thing makes me sad, really. Back when I was introduced to av123 it was quite the infectious place, with a great vibe. MLS is a very charismatic person imo and extremely likable. I think he is a great idea man for sure, but perhaps not the best operations guy. Unfortunately I think this type of thing happens a lot in small businesses. The guy who starts the business gets it going with his own time and money, and it is difficult to let go of the control aspect and let someone else run it. I work in a family business right now and have grown up around it and have seen my uncle make the same types of mistakes over and over.

It certainly is possible for them to turn things around, and I hope that they do. It will just take a while to regain my trust again. I need to see some positive action coming from the company consistently for a significant period of time (at least a year or more) before I will feel comfortable considering them worthy of my audio dollars....
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