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Is It Safe To Buy Dual MFWs?

68K views 1K replies 135 participants last post by  KlipschHead281 
#1 ·
I've been a supporter of AV123 for awhile, and the recent issues concerning the company and MLS have really been tough to deal with. I've always found the man and his company to be fair and generous, but I need convincing now. I'm running an Outlaw LFM-1EX, and have been very happy with it. Lately the upgrade bug has bitten, and I've been thinking about getting more subwoofage. The latest sale on MFWs is very tempting, but with all the problems they have had I need to be sure I won't be buying into trouble. I've never had an issue with any sub I purchased, and the thought of problems developing with dual MFWs has me worried. The sale will be over before the new subs ship, so I have no user data to go by. The competition is dual A5-350s from eD, or maybe dual A7s-450s. Wish I could go dual HSU ULS-15s, but that's getting too expensive. Bottom line, is it safe to order MFWs? Is the amp issue really fixed? How about the hum issues? Anything else to worry about, or are these as good a deal as they seem? MLS, are you out there? If you can personally ensure that these subs are all they should be then I will place an order, come on man! You need to get vocal again, it's been too long! Convince me (and everyone else) that the MFWs are the best deal going, and you're sure to sell a boat load.
 
#78 ·
For some reasons, my response to Graphicguy didn't show so I'll have to start over again.


First off, thank you Graphicguy for your insightful post.

I'm here to learn more about the MFW prior to making my decision so anything related is really helpful.


At this point, I wish to ask you a few more questions please.


You said he used to sell Swan speakers (I didn't anything about this brand so I'll need to do some more readings) then whatever happened to him not selling them anymore?


Regarding Emotiva, I do know a little about them when I was searching for a HT amp.

I now have their pre/pro & amp in my system and they are great.

I always thought Emotiva was launched & is owned by Dan Laughman (sp)?


So MLS is both av123 president and a designer/manufacturer?

He must have had an engineering and marketing background in order to do so.

I myself can hardly hold one simple job at any one time, let alone doing several tasks at the samt time.

I must admite I always admire such talents.


Alright, I'll need to go reading up on av123 then come back here with more questions.


Thanks again Graphicguy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy /forum/post/16622399


LIttle bit of background to catch you up.....reader's digest version.


AV123, and company founder/President, Mark Schifter was one of the first internet direct audio companies. He used to sell other manufacturer's products (like Swan Speakers). He even had a hand in helping to launch current ID companies (i.e. EMOTIVA) by reselling their products.


Then, he became a designer/manufacturer (which he also did with a couple of his earlier companies).


He's been making his own speakers for well over a decade (could be 15 years). Current line up includes the Rocket line, the X-series, LS and ELT525. He's also got a fairly large arsenal of now retired speaker products.


As AV123, Mark (or as he's more commonly know as, MLS) made a reputation as producing some of the best performing, best looking speakers for the amount of money they cost.....available anywhere.
 
#79 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy /forum/post/16625602


Interesting! One thing I've overlooked in this is if the MFWs would actually be a marked improvement over my LFM-1EX. The Outlaw subs are "cousins" to the HSU subs, and are reported to be very similar sonically. Maybe just adding a second EX would make the most sense. I'm starting to feel like this might not be the best time to rejoin the AV123 "family"!

You may want to contact craigsub. He owned dual MFW's now he owns dual LFM-1EX's. I know from some of his posts that I have read that he likes the LFM-1EX subs, but felt the MFW's offered more output. But the safe bet seems to be going with dual LFM's since you already own one. How big is your room? What are the room dynamics? Sometimes you can get the most bang for your buck by spending some money on room treatments. I take it you are from Florida? Having spent most of my life in Florida I can attest that many rooms have tile floors and vaulted ceilings which can really affect acoustics.
 
#80 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoop /forum/post/16625751


Here we go again with this craigsub list...First off, his scoring is not the bible and he will tell you so. How much superior is a sub if its higher in points then another...do you really no sound wise? My guess is, you would not. My buddy has a MFW and have heard it in my room and his and I liked it...ALOT. It seemed there was a wait for an MFW, so I purchased the 3.3. Then I compared it to the MFW in my room and hauled my 3.3 over his place and compared it also. Superior...no way...Similar, sure. I did not do any high tech testing other then seeing how low they went and how loud they were when they went there lowest and that was it. My room, the 3.3 was lower and his room almost equal...still don't understand that but I am not in the science of subs.


REGARDLESS, your statement early is completely off "bass". I am not bashing MFW, but until there problem is resolved, I just wouldn't recomend buying that sub. When it does get resolved, I would more then happy to recomend the product. It is an excellent product with unfortunately currently inferior parts. If they would just put something in reliable and raise the price to compensate, people would still by...considering its still lower in price then many subs out there with regards to performance...and customer service...I will not go there.

You like the HSU over the MFW. Nothing wrong with that. Other people feel differently. Who is right or wrong? There is no right or wrong answer, it is personal preference. And I have actually compared about 5 subs (including HSU, eD, SVS, BIC) that are on the craigsub ranking list and I have found his list to be pretty much inline with my own tastes. So I do put some stock in his ranking. But the best test would be for the OP to try both dual subs in his space and keep the winner. That would be the only true test. But, as I have stated several times in this thread and which you seem to ignore, I would not buy any av123 product at this time, and certainly not their subwoofer. Too many other reputable companies out there that make great products. .
 
#81 ·
graphicguy as usual left out important information.


His statement reads like AV123 has not had amp problems with its subs before.


Try telling that to the ULW owners with bad amps, and the disgrace with the UFW-12.


You conveniently left out the fact that MLS designed the UFW-12 mule with significant deep bass and then CHANGED the design of the amp/driver such that the UFW-12 left a lot of people disappointed. They had been clearly led to believe that the UFW-12 would have good deep bass. But the changes MLS made turned the UFFW-12 into something akin to the SVS SB-12 Plus, (as far as deep bass is concerned). To the best of my knowledge, buyers only found out that the design had been changed when they received the $1,100-$1,200 UFW-12.


AV123 has been working on delivering what it promised for close to 3 years now, and things are still up in the air. The fix is still not available after 2 years of promises.


Other amp fixes resulted in excess heat and had to be re re-designed!


There is more that affects OTHER AV123 subs. Perhaps one of the non-apologists can elaborate on the non MFW sub amp issues.
 
#82 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 /forum/post/16625992


He has just as much right to post a positive comment as the people who post constant negative comments, as often as they all like.

How about you post your non-helpful to the OP / pro AV123 cheerleading in another thread? The OP wants to know if it's safe to buy dual MFW-15's and you just post about how much your MFW-15's rock. Just like you always do. That's not a helpful post. We all know you're in love with your MFW-15's and you think they're the greatest thing ever. We all know they can break things, etc, etc, etc... Your anecdotes are unrelated and not beneficial except to sub salt in the wounds of the people who have ongoing problems.


The OP is clearly aware of their performance when working. He wants to know if the problems are past. Just because there are still some working MFW-15's, that amaze their owners with every movie watched, out in the field doesn't mean the new ones are a safe buy.
 
#83 ·
I have a B-stock MFW-15 from last year that still kicks all kinds of ass. I'll be adding another B-stock most likely before the end of the year. The performance for the money is unbeatable. Every interaction I've ever had with AV123 has been quick and courteous.


Glad to see the same group of guys are piling on in this thread. Waiting on Pure-Evil (Jinx) to join in on the gang bang. Only then will it be complete.
 
#84 ·
Well you there's something called the reverse gang bang which is when one person screws a whole bunch of others
 
#85 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOOCHY /forum/post/16626758


Glad to see the same group of guys are piling on in this thread. Waiting on Pure-Evil (Jinx) to join in on the gang bang. Only then will it be complete.

You expected something else? The same cheerleaders (yourself included) join every thread and post non helpful and irrelevant anecdotes about how much your MFW-15(s) rock and/or about how your experience with AV123 was fine.


There can only be a few possible conclusions drawn from your and others posts.


1) The cheerleaders are just trolling.


2) The cheerleaders think that everyone who posts warnings about AV123 or certain AV123 products is lying.


3) The cheerleaders think that the concerns posted about AV123 or certain AV123 products are irrelevant and/or invalid.


Which of the three camps do you fall into?
 
#88 ·
I fall into the camp that doesn't take a single word you post at face value. Here, and at the ********** forum you added absolutely nothing worth reading. Every single one of your posts is a snarky, cynical comment no matter if the subject is AV123 or anything else.
 
#89 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisnotindahouse /forum/post/16626008


For some reasons, my response to Graphicguy didn't show so I'll have to start over again.


First off, thank you Graphicguy for your insightful post.

I'm here to learn more about the MFW prior to making my decision so anything related is really helpful.


At this point, I wish to ask you a few more questions please.


You said he used to sell Swan speakers (I didn't anything about this brand so I'll need to do some more readings) then whatever happened to him not selling them anymore?


Regarding Emotiva, I do know a little about them when I was searching for a HT amp.

I now have their pre/pro & amp in my system and they are great.

I always thought Emotiva was launched & is owned by Dan Laughman (sp)?


So MLS is both av123 president and a designer/manufacturer?

He must have had an engineering and marketing background in order to do so.

I myself can hardly hold one simple job at any one time, let alone doing several tasks at the samt time.

I must admite I always admire such talents.


Alright, I'll need to go reading up on av123 then come back here with more questions.


Thanks again Graphicguy.

Shis....not a problem. You can find out more about Swan here...

http://www.swanspeaker.com/


They are now sold by this company...

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/


Sounds like you're already familiar with EMOTIVA. They make great products. While I don't have any experience with their speakers, I did have their LMC/LPA gear in my system for a good long while. They did have some teething problems with their LMC pre-pro, but they got them sorted out. Both products are retired, however.


Dan did indeed launch the EMOTIVA brand, along with Lonnie. Early on, EMOTIVA was marketed by AV123, before they went out on their own, including sales and marketing. It's been awhile, but I've had the pleasure of speaking with both Dan and Lonnie. Both great guys. Whenever possible, I always urge anyone to contact the principal's with any of these ID companies to get information instead of speculation....doesn't matter if it's EMOTIVA, or AV123, or any of the other ID companies.


Regarding MLS and AV123, sometimes MLS sends off design work to other respected sources, sometimes his design hand is more involved. Depends on the product. With the MFW, Mark Seaton actually designed it ( http://seatonsound.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=1942660 ). Mark also sells his own, higher end sub, the Seaton Submersive. You can read more about it in this thread.....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877


Older interview (about 5 years), but here's a video interview that should give you some feel for MLS's background....

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/video...k-schifter.mov


Not entirely up-to-date to where AV123 is today, as things have changed a bit (they also build speakers in Cali, Columbia) and some of their dealings in China has changed.


Hope that helps cut through some of the noise. As I said, I urge anyone to call the principals of any of these ID companies to get a better picture of what they're all about.
 
#90 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOOCHY /forum/post/16627051


I fall into the camp that doesn't take a single word you post at face value. Here, and at the ********** forum you added absolutely nothing worth reading. Every single one of your posts is a snarky, cynical comment no matter if the subject is AV123 or anything else.

I'll take this post as you waving the white flag in this discussion. You can no longer stand on principal or the facts and have instead moved on to desperate and baseless insults.


You have just made my day.
 
#91 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy /forum/post/16627064


As I said, I urge anyone to call the principals of any of these ID companies to get a better picture of what they're all about.

This is the best advice here. We all know companies are completely open and honest. Never ask anyone for references or look at reviews. Just trust everything they tell you.
 
#94 ·
That's fair enough and to illustrate the opposite side of the coin, albeit not performance, here's another link.
 
#95 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk /forum/post/16622252


The HSU VTF-3 MK3 is $699+100 shipping. And I think the MFW-15 would be considered a superior sub. The HSU ULS-15 is $1099 + $60 shipping and handling and would be a more comparable sub to the MFW-15 performance wise.

.


Fair enough...I may have mis interpretted your first staement above...a problem with forum duiscussions. I was under assummtion by your statement that the MFW is far more superior sub then the 3.3.


Hey, I liked the MFW and if they had no problems, I could have been an MFW guy.
 
#96 ·
I own and operated 2 businesses. I know the day to day problems that you can have with suppliers, customers, banks, ect.


It seams sloppy that you would announce a new sale on your own closed forums. Promise an e-mail that never comes. And put one picture on your website that says "open the floodgates" but have no mention of the sale on your site. And no way to order on your site.


I operate company stores for my clients. I can go online and change a graphic or add a product in about 1 minute. All businesses have problems, but its how you deal with them that really counts. It doesn't seam like these guys have a clue on how to get back on the right track.
 
#97 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisOneKidMongo /forum/post/16626966


I thought the X-Sub was okay?

They were minor compared to the problems the other subs have had, but there were still problems. The most common, I believe, and the one I had was with the auto-on circuit not detecting that a signal was present.
 
#98 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude /forum/post/16626631


How about you post your non-helpful to the OP / pro AV123 cheerleading in another thread? The OP wants to know if it's safe to buy dual MFW-15's and you just post about how much your MFW-15's rock. Just like you always do. That's not a helpful post.

Well gosh Meeester forum cop, thanks for putting me back in my place, you go boy!


Quote:
We all know you're in love with your MFW-15's and you think they're the greatest thing ever. We all know they can break things, etc, etc, etc... Your anecdotes are unrelated and not beneficial except to sub salt in the wounds of the people who have ongoing problems.

Well then, I'm glad this isn't "Stereodude's" forum... you don't decide what is and isn't helpful. As for salt, you are the spokesman for all aren't you. How thoughtful. NOT.

Quote:
The OP is clearly aware of their performance when working. He wants to know if the problems are past. Just because there are still some working MFW-15's, that amaze their owners with every movie watched, out in the field doesn't mean the new ones are a safe buy.

Maybe the OP should post what he feels, not Stereodude, since you are NOT the OP. Obviously you have disdain towards the MFW, that is clear to everyone so how about you post what you post and leave the moderation to those that do it well.


Ask for a forum promotion to the seeker of off topic posts, but then I'm sure you are one of those in the back ground PM'ing the mods crying like you were wronged or something because a thread isn't on topic as you see it.
Doctor heal thyself.
 
#99 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOOCHY /forum/post/16626758


I have a B-stock MFW-15 from last year that still kicks all kinds of ass. I'll be adding another B-stock most likely before the end of the year. The performance for the money is unbeatable. Every interaction I've ever had with AV123 has been quick and courteous.


Glad to see the same group of guys are piling on in this thread. Waiting on Pure-Evil (Jinx) to join in on the gang bang. Only then will it be complete.

GOOCHY, posting that your MFW's still kick arse is off topic and not relevant to the OP, please abide by Stereodude...
 
#100 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude /forum/post/16626907


You expected something else? The same cheerleaders (yourself included) join every thread and post non helpful and irrelevant anecdotes about how much your MFW-15(s) rock and/or about how your experience with AV123 was fine.


There can only be a few possible conclusions drawn from your and others posts.


1) The cheerleaders are just trolling.


2) The cheerleaders think that everyone who posts warnings about AV123 or certain AV123 products is lying.


3) The cheerleaders think that the concerns posted about AV123 or certain AV123 products are irrelevant and/or invalid.


Which of the three camps do you fall into?

And this roll of drivel is what, relevant to this thread? Too funny..
 
#102 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 /forum/post/16628592


Ask for a forum promotion to the seeker of off topic posts, but then I'm sure you are one of those in the back ground PM'ing the mods crying like you were wronged or something because a thread isn't on topic as you see it.
Doctor heal thyself.

I'm all healed now. Do you need some mental healing?
 
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