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post #61 of 557 Old 09-01-2010, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjulius View Post

Anyone running two Antimodes with two subs?

Wouldn't calibrating each sub independently from each other produce better results?

Thanks for any input.

MrJulius

I have 4 subs calibrated with one Anti Mode. The Anti Mode can do a better job calibrating all the subs at the same time then a one to one calibration.
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post #62 of 557 Old 09-04-2010, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I have 4 subs calibrated with one Anti Mode. The Anti Mode can do a better job calibrating all the subs at the same time then a one to one calibration.

bsoko2,
Do you have matched subs?
I will be adding an Epik Empire to an Epik Dynasty. I wasn't sure if mismatched subs would be a problem. My thoughts were that one Antimode connected to both subs might somehow mess one of the subs up.

Thanks again for the help,
MrJulius

The Evil Plan = (Dynasty + Empire) / at 40 Hz !
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post #63 of 557 Old 09-04-2010, 06:55 AM
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mrjulius, I run 2 Epik Empires off one Antimode. The subs are equidistant from my main LP. I think you may run into issues depending on how close the dynasty & empire are in performance and position when calibrated.
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post #64 of 557 Old 09-04-2010, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitbull24 View Post

mrjulius, I run 2 Epik Empires off one Antimode. The subs are equidistant from my main LP. I think you may run into issues depending on how close the dynasty & empire are in performance and position when calibrated.

Pitbull24,
That's what I was concerned about. I E-mailed DSpeaker (Antimode) and will post their reply when I get it.

Thanks,
MrJulius

The Evil Plan = (Dynasty + Empire) / at 40 Hz !
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post #65 of 557 Old 09-04-2010, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjulius View Post

bsoko2,
Do you have matched subs?
I will be adding an Epik Empire to an Epik Dynasty. I wasn't sure if mismatched subs would be a problem. My thoughts were that one Antimode connected to both subs might somehow mess one of the subs up.

Thanks again for the help,
MrJulius

I have quad Empires and have in the past mixed subs with the Anti Mode. I would try the mix and see how it performs for you. It's not like the setup of the Anti Mode is "mucho" time and others mix subs all the time.

Bill
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post #66 of 557 Old 09-04-2010, 02:19 PM
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Any Empire owners using the "lift" function with their antimode?
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post #67 of 557 Old 09-04-2010, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly View Post

Any Empire owners using the "lift" function with their antimode?

Tried it and it was too much for what I am running. My quads run in the 78 to 79 db range with the mains at 75. Plenty of bass with this.

Bill
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post #68 of 557 Old 09-06-2010, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjulius View Post

Pitbull24,
That's what I was concerned about. I E-mailed DSpeaker (Antimode) and will post their reply when I get it.

Thanks,
MrJulius

Here is the response from the manufacturer:

If you run this new subwoofer with the same signal as the first one, then you don't need another 8033. You can use single 8033 to correct both subwoofers.

... (MSc Eng)
Lead Designer (Acoustics & DSP)
DSPeaker / VLSI Solution Oy

The Evil Plan = (Dynasty + Empire) / at 40 Hz !
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post #69 of 557 Old 09-06-2010, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I have quad Empires and have in the past mixed subs with the Anti Mode. I would try the mix and see how it performs for you. It's not like the setup of the Anti Mode is "mucho" time and others mix subs all the time.

Bill

Bill,
Thanks for the advice. You are correct about the Antimode being able to tame more than one subwoofer.

MrJulius

The Evil Plan = (Dynasty + Empire) / at 40 Hz !
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post #70 of 557 Old 10-06-2010, 09:00 AM
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so how does use the 8033 best with the new integra DHC 80.2 or equiv with audyssey xt32 and the sub eq included?

Joel
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post #71 of 557 Old 10-06-2010, 09:06 AM
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Don't use the Anti Mode with Audyssey Pro or XT32. These versions of Audyssey are far superior to the Anti Mode so don't waste the $$$$$.
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post #72 of 557 Old 10-07-2010, 06:19 PM
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With antimode is there a way to calibrate dual sub such that one only produce anything above 50hz and the other sub take charge of everything below.
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post #73 of 557 Old 10-07-2010, 06:24 PM
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I use FMOD High pass filter for this same purpose

http://www.amazon.com/FMOD-Crossover...6501050&sr=8-7

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post #74 of 557 Old 10-08-2010, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymalya View Post

I use FMOD High pass filter for this same purpose

http://www.amazon.com/FMOD-Crossover...6501050&sr=8-7

Thanks mate! So just put this between the cable and the sub? Is the frequency filter fixed or we can set other freq manually?
Looks like it filters off all freq below 50hz?
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post #75 of 557 Old 10-08-2010, 05:43 AM
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Right, it goes between cable & sub. Each FMOD comes with fixed filter ( 30Hz,50Hz,70 Hz etc) - so no you can't change them. They sell both Low Pas & High Pass filters

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post #76 of 557 Old 10-08-2010, 10:54 AM
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Thanks for sharing that Mr Julius. That was a weak response by DSP.

You may be ok with one 8033 for 2 different subs if you are sure they are properly level matched (ie. ensuring that each sub is playing at the same volume with a given signal). Most people frown on having 2 different subs b/c they say the lesser sub may restrict the greater sub (by the lesser sub distorting or bottoming out while the better sub has more steam). This should not be a problem in your situation b/c with Epiks there is no bottom .
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post #77 of 557 Old 10-08-2010, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Don't use the Anti Mode with Audyssey Pro or XT32. These versions of Audyssey are far superior to the Anti Mode so don't waste the $$$$$.


Ha..Just the answer was looking for, as I just pre ordered the Denon 4311ci.and had been thinking of the Anti mode again of lately.

Thanks

Djoel
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post #78 of 557 Old 10-09-2010, 08:41 AM
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a few basic questions about the 8033 if i may. are we just using a Y cable from the unit if running multiple subs? i also will be using the second stereo RCA output from my 2 channel preamp (i have 2 outputs) into the antimode. i noticed they sell a Y cable for this also that has resistors built into it, but it is $100. this seems a little rediculous for a $300 unit - is it necessary, or will just a regular Y cable work? one final question - can the unit be bypassed or can you simply shut it off and pass the stereo signal through it if you don't want to listen to your subs on some music? thanx!
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post #79 of 557 Old 10-09-2010, 09:04 AM
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Yes, you can use a simple y-adapter.

Yes, you can bypass the 8033 with the push of a button on the front panel.
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post #80 of 557 Old 10-09-2010, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitbull24 View Post

Yes, you can use a simple y-adapter.

Yes, you can bypass the 8033 with the push of a button on the front panel.

thanx pitbull! i take it you mean you can use a standard Y connector from a stereo preamp to the antimode. what is the point of the one they sell with the resistors built into it? does anyone know?
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post #81 of 557 Old 10-09-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratso1 View Post

a few basic questions about the 8033 if i may. are we just using a Y cable from the unit if running multiple subs? i also will be using the second stereo RCA output from my 2 channel preamp (i have 2 outputs) into the antimode.

If you are only using a single 8033 you can use a Y-adaptor for the input if you are using a "stereo out" from your preamp.

On the output of the 8033 you can also use a Y-adaptor to your subs, or simply use the extra (180 degree) output and "REVERSE" the phase at the sub to make both subs "in phase". This is assuming your sub amp has either a "phase switch" or "phase adjustment dial".

Regards,

John
CENTURY CITY AV
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post #82 of 557 Old 10-09-2010, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

If you are only using a single 8033 you can use a Y-adaptor for the input if you are using a "stereo out" from your preamp.

On the output of the 8033 you can also use a Y-adaptor to your subs, or simply use the extra (180 degree) output and "REVERSE" the phase at the sub to make both subs "in phase". This is assuming your sub amp has either a "phase switch" or "phase adjustment dial".

cool! thanx!
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post #83 of 557 Old 10-09-2010, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Thanks for sharing that Mr Julius. That was a weak response by DSP.

You may be ok with one 8033 for 2 different subs if you are sure they are properly level matched (ie. ensuring that each sub is playing at the same volume with a given signal). Most people frown on having 2 different subs b/c they say the lesser sub may restrict the greater sub (by the lesser sub distorting or bottoming out while the better sub has more steam). This should not be a problem in your situation b/c with Epiks there is no bottom .

deepstang,
I just didn't think that one Antimode would tame two very different subs. I ditched that idea

I went with the Evil Plan. I bought a Behringer DCX2486 and put that downstream from the Antimode. I set a crossover at 40Hz and the low stuff goes to the Dynasty (18" ported and great for HT and uber low bass) and the higher stuff goes to the Empire (dual 15" sealed and more musical than the Dynasty). It goes like this:

Receiver--Antimode--DCX2486 (crossed at 40 Hz)--Sub 1
............................................................ ......--Sub 2

This way when the Antimode sends it's sweeps each sub is handling the portion that works best for it and the filters are applied to the correct sub (taking into account the slope of the crossover of course).

My REW graph looks pretty good and the sound is incredible. The DCX2496 (via laptop) lets you mute a sub, mute the other one, put them back online, move the crossover point, remove the crossover altogether, Etc, on the fly.

I played with the crossover from 30 to 50 Hz and settled on 40 as the best sounding for music and HT.

BTW the crossover point is pretty dern flat via REW. That's what I was hoping for.

MrJulius

The Evil Plan = (Dynasty + Empire) / at 40 Hz !
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post #84 of 557 Old 10-09-2010, 04:35 PM
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Thanks Mr Julius. Great info. So with that flat REW, what were your honest impressions on the differences you HEARD (slight, dramatic)?

I now have a flat REW with my dual Sentinels, but still feel like I am hearing muddiness and cancellation at certain frequencies.
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post #85 of 557 Old 10-10-2010, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

If you are only using a single 8033 you can use a Y-adaptor for the input

Beware! Using a simple cable-only Y-adapter for the Anti-Mode input will connect the two outputs of your pre-amp or AVR together! This may be dangerous to the line output stages of the pre-amp or AVR.

The correct way is to use resistors to protect the line out drivers.

With the Anti-Mode output you can use one or more Y adapters to split the signal.
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post #86 of 557 Old 10-10-2010, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1bert View Post

Beware! Using a simple cable-only Y-adapter for the Anti-Mode input will connect the two outputs of your pre-amp or AVR together! This may be dangerous to the line output stages of the pre-amp or AVR.

The correct way is to use resistors to protect the line out drivers.

With the Anti-Mode output you can use one or more Y adapters to split the signal.

Clarification? Why would anybody use a Y splitter on dual subwoofer outputs going to the Anti Mode. If you have dual subs, then use the Y splitter on the Anti Mode output to the subs.
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post #87 of 557 Old 10-10-2010, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Thanks Mr Julius. Great info. So with that flat REW, what were your honest impressions on the differences you HEARD (slight, dramatic)?

I now have a flat REW with my dual Sentinels, but still feel like I am hearing muddiness and cancellation at certain frequencies.

deepstang,
This is my REW graph.
Antimode ON.
Dynasty and Epic crossed at 40Hz
1/3 octave smoothing:



As you can see the graph is relatively smooth through the crossover transition (24dB Butterworth slope at 40 Hz) and generally follows the REW curve.

The sound difference between this and no crossover of these subs is hard to put into words without cursing. As always YMMV. Maybe proper placing of these subs (if there is one in my environment) would make them play nicer together, but my placement options are limited. As my wife puts it..."We're trying to live in a society here"... so end tables and such wouldn't work.

I tried doing a Hard Knee Curve using additional filters on the DCX. I didn't care for that at all. My mid-bass all but disappeared. I used my RS meter to test for my house curve. My house curve between 30Hz and 100Hz is about 12 dB. The REW graph pretty much shows this, so having a curved response SOUNDS FANTASTIC.

Last night I was playing 70's music (stop laughing) to see how that sounded. WOW !!! I have been hearing these songs for quite some time and I can honesty say that I have never heard such clean bass notes...ever on any system that I have owned. The rest of the notes sound pretty dern good too with my new Klipsch RS-82 II fronts.

One nice thing about the DCX2496 is that you can sit and watch, via the lights on the front panel, just when each sub engages and how hard. I thought that a lot more good musical bass resided below 40Hz. It's pretty cool to see the Empire (sub2) firing during certain notes then the Dynasty (sub1) kick in as they go down further and seeing both subs firing away and sounding this smooth.

As far as your Sentinels go I'm not very technical as to why certain frequencies may be canceling each other out. Maybe someone else can jump in here or post your REW graph and someone may see something. The waterfall graph may be the most revealing but I don't have a clue as to how they are read. I just got REW running a couple of weeks ago.

As far as muddiness goes I can say that the Antimode REALLY did help me there. If I turn it off with the crossover intact I get some boominess out of the Dynasty and an overall crappy sound. If I have the Antimode off and the crossover off as well...Yikes I can't tell when a bass note starts or stops.

Currently I am using NO filters on the DCX, just the crossover and the Antimode upstream. I tried adding additional filters on the DCX and while they may have flattened the peaks, nothing sounded better overall than the simplest approach.

I now get a good bit of mid bass slam with one Empire coupled with the Dynasty. I never had this with the Dynasty alone. I can only imagine those with two or four Empires and what the slam feels like. Not having heard two or four Empires I would still bet that I would want to have an uber low sub mixed (and crossed over) in there somewhere. My single Empire just doesn't dig as deep into the HT explosions and current music tracks as the Dynasty does...and does so very well

MrJulius

The Evil Plan = (Dynasty + Empire) / at 40 Hz !
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post #88 of 557 Old 10-10-2010, 06:45 AM
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Any thoughts on Antimode vs Audyssey multiEQ? will antimode do a better job?
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post #89 of 557 Old 10-10-2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Why would anybody use a Y splitter on dual subwoofer outputs going to the Anti Mode.

When you have and AVR you have the LFE out that feeds Anti-Mode. No problem there.

If you have a stereo system, you may not have LFE out in your amplifier, just the left and right channel line-level outputs (or only speaker-level outputs). Then you would need to merge the channels to be able to use just one Anti-Mode (with whatever number of subs you have). This is where you have to think a bit and not simply connect the outputs together.
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post #90 of 557 Old 10-11-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1bert View Post

When you have and AVR you have the LFE out that feeds Anti-Mode. No problem there.

If you have a stereo system, you may not have LFE out in your amplifier, just the left and right channel line-level outputs (or only speaker-level outputs). Then you would need to merge the channels to be able to use just one Anti-Mode (with whatever number of subs you have). This is where you have to think a bit and not simply connect the outputs together.


i asked the andrew the well respected owner of blue jeans cables about this:

" I can’t think of a reason why the resistors are in place on this assembly. My guess is that it somehow controls the gain increase when a stereo signal is summed together. However, this gain increase is really dependant on the impendence of the system, and can’t really be assumed to be a specific value. I would normally suggest using a typical y-splitter for this application, which doesn’t use the resistors. Alternatively, some amps do offer a mono-functionality when using just (typically) the left output of the Subwoofer/LFE pre-out to left channel of subwoofer. Doing it this way would have the same electrical effect as summing the subwoofer, and then breaking it back out into an artificial stereo signal (if sub accepts L/R inputs). Just double-check that your devices can do it this way…



Thanks,

Andrew

BJC "
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