MFW-15 w/ new July 2009 amps <absolutely NO AV123 or MLS bashing/negativity!!> - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

I'm wishing I had gone with Rosewood instead of Moho-Rosa Satin.

I wish I had 2 Rosewood rather than the Palisander rosa diamonds. They are STUNNING but the wall behind them and the 850's hanging out with them don't match up all the way. Anyone interested in trading PRS diamonds for Diamond black or Rosewood PLEASE PM me. I love these things man, three of them is deadly good. On a side note, I still have a 90% null in my seating position which is never going to be solved. I sit one foot to the left and BANG there's the bass. At this point, the room sounds so good it doesn't even bother me anymore.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter View Post


The overall product can surely support a 40 or 50 pound piece of Granite, etc.

All the best...

mls

Actually I weight 290 or so and have had to stand on mine a couple of times to do random stuff in the theater room.

Might not be recommended, but just throwing that out there.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by grantc79 View Post

Actually I weight 290 or so and have had to stand on mine a couple of times to do random stuff in the theater room.

Might not be recommended, but just throwing that out there.

I was in there at 285 standing on them to dust a corner, they can take it. I'm sure any sub box with the kind of bracing these things has can handle much more.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 08-15-2009, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I didn't know AVS had so many linebacker audiophiles. I guess big boys get big subs.

Mark, when the new batches/shipments come in, are a few tested from each batch? I don't intend any disrespect, but I know in the past it seems that issues could be traced to various batches.

In the last several pages, I have not read any issues with hum or failure. It seems that the newest of the new shipment is relatively trouble free.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

man i wish i had a pair of Diamond Black (that was my original choice) ..... if only i had $$$

You can always ask...



I'd love to help as many as I can... Makes for better business relations and happier customers...

You know my e-mail addy... let me know if I can help --- we have tons of Canadian Customers eager to get Piano Rosewood too...

Best as always...

mls

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Old 08-15-2009, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

I'm wishing I had gone with Rosewood instead of Moho-Rosa Satin.

Of course this can be fixed too...

You guys know me well enough to know that IF I can find a way to help you --- I will...

I'm not sure where you live (apologies... just getting back to being on forums again)... but I feel pretty certain we can sell yours - and find a way to get you a Rosewood... I think we have 40+ left from the last container...

All the best...

mls

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Old 08-15-2009, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirac View Post

Sorry this is quick, but just wanted to let you know that the boom is back! Still unpacking and getting the AV system put together, but I did a quick "ops check" with a 26" Panasonic LCD, Oppo 980H over HDMI, stereo RCA output from the TV into the MFW stereo line in, and the CD "Blackwater" by Mofro, and there is PLENTY of low end. And there is NOTHING else, not even the faintest hum. I know you had some heartbreak with the manufacturing on the early amps, but I got a feeling you got your money's worth on this one. Can't wait to get everything hooked up and balanced properly and let this thing rip!

Thanks so much for the quick assistance, was really surprised when you stopped me mid-sentence to tell me a new amp would be here in two weeks--and very happy to see it show up early. Thanks again...

My pleasure...

I DID manage to mangle one CS issue last week by not properly entering the order correctly - I'm new at this...

While I am still learning - I can surely say this much - We will do what we can in every situation to apologize for the trouble - get the fix sent ASAP - and stay connected with you to make sure that Da Boom is (as my Granddaughter Gracie say --- ALL THAT)...

Each person matters...

Thanks for your note...

All the best...

mls

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Old 08-15-2009, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

I installed the 2nd replacement amp tonight. I have to say I agree, there is more punch than there was previously. I had to literally A/B it to make sure it wasn't a suggestion trying to prove itself.

The new amp does have more omph between 30 and 70, great job AV123. The impact below 30hz seems to be the same and while I hit 121db this time I didn't have the meter cutting off at 120 like I did previously. So I'm going to say overall output is the same as before, which is to say it's outstanding.

I have a few friends coming over tonight for movie night, can't wait to see what they think.

These MIRROR my results precisely...

Thanks - and enjoy...

All the best...

mls

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Old 08-15-2009, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by crOwcaine View Post

I wish I had 2 Rosewood rather than the Palisander rosa diamonds. They are STUNNING but the wall behind them and the 850's hanging out with them don't match up all the way. Anyone interested in trading PRS diamonds for Diamond black or Rosewood PLEASE PM me. I love these things man, three of them is deadly good. On a side note, I still have a 90% null in my seating position which is never going to be solved. I sit one foot to the left and BANG there's the bass. At this point, the room sounds so good it doesn't even bother me anymore.



Stay in touch Big D...

All the best...

mls

Founder and President
av123 / Rocket Loudspeakers
Perpetual Technologies
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by grantc79 View Post

Actually I weight 290 or so and have had to stand on mine a couple of times to do random stuff in the theater room.

Might not be recommended, but just throwing that out there.

JGC... I had no idea you were THAT BIG...

Dude...



Best to YOU as always...

Mark

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Old 08-15-2009, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Wow, I didn't know AVS had so many linebacker audiophiles. I guess big boys get big subs.

Mark, when the new batches/shipments come in, are a few tested from each batch? I don't intend any disrespect, but I know in the past it seems that issues could be traced to various batches.

In the last several pages, I have not read any issues with hum or failure. It seems that the newest of the new shipment is relatively trouble free.

Good question - and given that this amp issue was so terrible - I don't feel disrespected at all... I would be asking also...

Here's how it goes...

Each amp built at QSC here in Longmont, CO gets completely tested "out of full product assembly" by Mark (another Mark - not me )or his team at QSC --- Then if they pass - they get assembled into completed units... (Power Supply - Pre-Amp, etc.) - then they are tested again and brought once daily to av123 (we are 1.1 miles away from them)... THEN they are tested by myself or my wife Lynn BEFORE they are installed into complete subwoofers...

Once they are installed - they are tested ONE MORE TIME as a completed unit... Lynn, Tim or me do that final test... My daughter Christina comes in a few times per week to help as well - but the testing is done EXACTLY as noted...

Several of you that have visited av123 in the last 6 weeks or so can surely chime in with your experiences here... I'm cool with that...

We have had something close to 11 total failures in the last 600 ++ units... These include 330 + for Warranty - 40 + for Freight Damage returns (for new units dating back more than 8 months) and the well over 250 new unit sales... I'm not unhappy with this...

My take is this - "we're good" - and actually getting better in many spots...

All the best...

mls

Founder and President
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Perpetual Technologies
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:49 PM
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Am I being ridiculous to think the 15 will still be on sale in 6 weeks or so??

Quote:


THEN they are tested by myself or my wife Lynn BEFORE they are installed into complete subwoofers...

the real boss tests everything here as well I
am 6'4" 240 (down from 316/2005)..SHe is 5'3" but still the boss!
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SbWillie View Post

Am I being ridiculous to think the 15 will still be on sale in 6 weeks or so??

the real boss tests everything here as well I
am 6'4" 240 (down from 316/2005)..SHe is 5'3" but still the boss!

Loved this...

Please e-mail or call me at the office (I'm at extension 301)... I will quarantine one for you...

In 6 weeks - the prices will surely change...

We sent an e-mail to our Customer List yesterday letting everyone know in advance... prices WILL BE going up...

Cool...

All the best...

mls

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Old 08-15-2009, 07:32 PM
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wow that was quick!

Actually I'm also looking for one for my install job I mentioned earlier (as well as my OWN first HT) IF my full price offer gets accepted on my dream home that we submitted an hour ago.
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SbWillie View Post

Am I being ridiculous to think the 15 will still be on sale in 6 weeks or so??

the real boss tests everything here as well I
am 6'4" 240 (down from 316/2005)..SHe is 5'3" but still the boss!

OT but down from 285 to 252 in 3 months.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

OT but down from 285 to 252 in 3 months.

Great job I was at 275, now i'm at 256 in about 2 months
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Old 08-15-2009, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigred7078 View Post

Great job I was at 275, now i'm at 256 in about 2 months

One never knows where these threads might go, but I do believe this might be a first. For the record, I'm not as big as any of the previously mentioned fellers, but I ain't a little guy either... AND, I have never once given thought to standing on my sub. It's pretty funny to think of all these guys, who seem so particular about every nuance of their audio, actually standing on one of their speakers... Oh well, to each their own.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ~ B. B.
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter View Post

Thank you for your note - well received and completely understood...

We've successfully sold over 2400 of these before having the trouble we ran into with this bad shipment of amplifiers. Those 1st units have worked really well - and to date we are a tad over 3.5% defect rate - high for sure - but not catastrophic...

The man that we hired to design the new amp has been actively designing within our industry for more than 35 years... JL knows his stuff... As well, JL is an Industry Expert on Class D and he has written many of the seminal industry application notes that ALL of these Engineers look at... Lastly, he is "THE" go-to-guy in the Pro Audio world for these sorts of designs... Does that mean that we won't experience any problems - no, it does not... BUT, we are surely better off with him in this area of the company than we have been with past "Engineering Talent"...

The basic design being used here DOES have significant test and measurement behind it... JL has these designs well vetted and we are very comfortable with all of this...

We are working on a new warranty statement (extended warranty) and the decision to extend one or two years has not been made... We've had a very busy few weeks here - and simply discussing it on forums is not enough... I need some time with my teammates to be certain of the direction we will take...

I also wish to indicate that our alert re prices going back up is simply that - and alert... In the past, when we've not announced that an increase is coming folks have been a bit displeased... My goal is to simply let everyone know that we will not keep these "market re-entry prices" for long... Our e-mail to our mailing list will go out this weekend most likely... and the same holds true - we are letting people know that shortly (shortly means two weeks in my book) these numbers will rise...

We have virtually every finish and variant in the house right now - and the next container is due in 6 days... If the site says we have it - then we do...

We have container 5 and 6 already pretty much cast in stone - so the upstream numbers are good as well...

Hope this helps... and thanks for allowing my reply in kind...

All the best...

mls

Mark,

Thank you for taking the time to try and address some of my concerns.

To me failures equal loss, and that loss has to be accounted for somewhere, either in unit cost (consumer paying for the failures) or against your earnings. Not sating you are, but in my experience those who are quick to accept or explain away high defect loss are the one's "passing it on". Anyhow I guess many are lucky that you "re-entered the market" because I imagine it would have been "catastrophic" for many to be stuck with a silent 123lb wood box.

Regarding the amplifier, it sounds as if you have now retained consultation from a competent engineer, and hopefully it works out for everybody. However just because the "basic design" has been tested doesn't automatically correlate to your modified design being just as reliable. So, from your statement one can imply that the actual design you have implemented has not been extensively tested let alone modeled for reliability and longevity. Therefore one has no relative guarantee this new model will last longer than the last.

Regarding warranty, I am happy to hear you are going forward with an extension for the affected customers, I hope it's satisfactory for all parties. One thing that cropped up a few times in my further research is veneer de-lamination. Have you're production engineer's been able to pinpoint the cause, and has it been addressed in the latest round of production? Just curious what kind of glue you're using PVA, plastic resin, CC, 2-part? Anyhow, has there been a change in policy regarding warranty coverage against de-lamination problems. Will you fix or replace the housing if this occurs, contrary to many who stated they were left with a failing woodwork and no compensation? Needless to say this is very worrisome to me, and would like to hear your comment.

Regarding pricing, I am happy to hear you are now informing customers about upcoming price changes. My original skepticism surrounded the seemingly contrived statements by some and the push to buy. In AV123's new quest for transparency and honesty I hope your company will post a simple memo online stating the reason for the price increases and the date of said increase, as other respectable companies do. This would greatly simplify things for the consumer, and there would be no ambiguity to when and why, instead of leaving us to interpret "soon" and "to me soon is roughly 2 weeks" etc..

-Thanks
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:51 AM
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How do we go about getting a replacement amp? Mine has died. I don't see a place to order one on the web site.

My life is set at reference level.
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by GobbityGotz View Post

How do we go about getting a replacement amp? Mine has died. I don't see a place to order one on the web site.

Uh, how about clicking the support link on the company page and contacting them? There are phone numbers and email addresses... I think it's that easy... Good luck.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ~ B. B.
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Wow, I didn't know AVS had so many linebacker audiophiles. I guess big boys get big subs.

Mark, when the new batches/shipments come in, are a few tested from each batch? I don't intend any disrespect, but I know in the past it seems that issues could be traced to various batches.

In the last several pages, I have not read any issues with hum or failure. It seems that the newest of the new shipment is relatively trouble free.

ROTFLMAO i'm 6 7" 325lbs....so i guess i'm in that "linebacker" class as well LOL
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mdaudioguy View Post

One never knows where these threads might go, but I do believe this might be a first. For the record, I'm not as big as any of the previously mentioned fellers, but I ain't a little guy either... AND, I have never once given thought to standing on my sub. It's pretty funny to think of all these guys, who seem so particular about every nuance of their audio, actually standing on one of their speakers... Oh well, to each their own.

Not something I'm prone to do, but that corner had a cob web that needed removing and the sub was perfect for standing on and reaching it. Had I heard a crack or other such sound, I would have had a heart attack on the spot.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

ROTFLMAO i'm 6 7" 325lbs....so i guess i'm in that "linebacker" class as well LOL

Good grief man! Our next football game I'm calling you over!

Back on topic, the 2nd amplifier fit right into the opening perfectly! No need convincing it to fit, very easy.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:33 AM
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I'm puttin' him on my offensive line.


OT-Orlando Pace, St. Louis Rams
Height: 6-7
Weight: 325


OT- Nate Garner, Miami Dolphins
Height: 6-7
Weight: 325

Jack
 

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Old 08-16-2009, 12:47 PM
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I know this is hard to answer BUT....

How would dual-collocated mfw-15's compare to a single epik dynasty?

I would assume the dynasty gets lower, are there any other differences?
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Old 08-16-2009, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter View Post

Greg - Good Morning...

Please do let us know how we did...

Thanks so much - good luck...

All the best...

mls

I got my boom back!

It has been so long...I might have had a tear in my eye. I probably watched the train scene at the beginning of Polar Express a few too many times according to my wife.

One sounds great...two would be insane! Despite all the drama...very good subwoofer here for the money!
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

I got my boom back!

It has been so long...I might have had a tear in my eye. I probably watched the train scene at the beginning of Polar Express a few too many times according to my wife.

One sounds great...two would be insane! Despite all the drama...very good subwoofer here for the money!

Two with a working original amplifier was good, two with the modified one, same low end much better in HT now. Mid end grunt was good before, now it's better. I'd love it if someone who knows his stuff would do a comparo between them and report back.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by GobbityGotz View Post

How do we go about getting a replacement amp? Mine has died. I don't see a place to order one on the web site.

Please e-mail at

techsupport (and you know the rest)...

happy to help...

All the best...

mls

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Old 08-17-2009, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

Mark,

Thank you for taking the time to try and address some of my concerns.

To me failures equal loss, and that loss has to be accounted for somewhere, either in unit cost (consumer paying for the failures) or against your earnings. Not sating you are, but in my experience those who are quick to accept or explain away high defect loss are the one's "passing it on". Anyhow I guess many are lucky that you "re-entered the market" because I imagine it would have been "catastrophic" for many to be stuck with a silent 123lb wood box.

Regarding the amplifier, it sounds as if you have now retained consultation from a competent engineer, and hopefully it works out for everybody. However just because the "basic design" has been tested doesn't automatically correlate to your modified design being just as reliable. So, from your statement one can imply that the actual design you have implemented has not been extensively tested let alone modeled for reliability and longevity. Therefore one has no relative guarantee this new model will last longer than the last.

Regarding warranty, I am happy to hear you are going forward with an extension for the affected customers, I hope it's satisfactory for all parties. One thing that cropped up a few times in my further research is veneer de-lamination. Have you're production engineer's been able to pinpoint the cause, and has it been addressed in the latest round of production? Just curious what kind of glue you're using PVA, plastic resin, CC, 2-part? Anyhow, has there been a change in policy regarding warranty coverage against de-lamination problems. Will you fix or replace the housing if this occurs, contrary to many who stated they were left with a failing woodwork and no compensation? Needless to say this is very worrisome to me, and would like to hear your comment.

Regarding pricing, I am happy to hear you are now informing customers about upcoming price changes. My original skepticism surrounded the seemingly contrived statements by some and the push to buy. In AV123's new quest for transparency and honesty I hope your company will post a simple memo online stating the reason for the price increases and the date of said increase, as other respectable companies do. This would greatly simplify things for the consumer, and there would be no ambiguity to when and why, instead of leaving us to interpret "soon" and "to me soon is roughly 2 weeks" etc..

-Thanks

Many thanks... wow, you convey a message in a way that's expressive and really nice... THANK YOU...

May I humbly suggest that you send along your e-mail to me (mine is mls@ - you know the rest)... and I will get you a copy of what JUST went out - and keep you in that "loop"...

There is a long history here about "marketing" and the use of another fourm for same... I'm trying to keep the messages informative - while NOT crossing the line...

We use a UREA-base glue for most of the veneer processing in Colombia - we have used others as well (depending on the substrate and veneer to be used)... Our issues were with Palisander (very oily and difficult - requiring a ton of prep) - and once the UREA Glue was used we WERE able to combat some of our problems...

Look for some new finishing ideas in the next 6 months... We have several new finishes that are coming that blend nicely with what we have out there - and really make the future look bright and exciting...

We have always working with anyone that has veneer cracking or fissures... There have been a few cases (less than 25) where we did not have that model aany more - and we helped in other ways... There is a ton of anecdotal evidence of this - and how we dealt with it...

The design that was implemented HAS IN FACT been used in some variant for many years... JL designs for many Pro Audio companies - and as I understand it - this design (and variants thereof) has been used for many years - and over 1000's of finished good products... I'm not at liberty to name... sorry...

All the best...

mls

Founder and President
av123 / Rocket Loudspeakers
Perpetual Technologies
Mark L. Schifter is offline  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

I got my boom back!

It has been so long...I might have had a tear in my eye. I probably watched the train scene at the beginning of Polar Express a few too many times according to my wife.

One sounds great...two would be insane! Despite all the drama...very good subwoofer here for the money!

GREAT to hear...

Made my Monday...

All the best - and enjoy...

mark

Founder and President
av123 / Rocket Loudspeakers
Perpetual Technologies
Mark L. Schifter is offline  
 
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