*Simple way to improve Bass* - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 68 Old 08-01-2009, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been interested in the benefits of upgrading of Power Cables for a while. Elite Electronics here in Hawaii has been liquidating (..a pause for SO MANY DEALS-they're an auth. Elite dealer and is wher i bought my 111FD) and I found a Monster Power Powerline 300 AV Power Cord and inquired about it. List price was $99.99 and he knocked off about $40.00 (..again I pause) So anyway, without expecting anything I bought it and had intentions of replacing my A/V Reciever cord with it.

When i got home I remembered the guy commenting on a friend's results when he replaced his Power cord to his Sub; but I went ahead and hooked it up to my reciever..immediately noticing the KPBS jazz was clearer and alot less noisy. "hm" i wondered..so i hooked it up to my SVS and well -- wHAt the F(#(#!!??

I have been replaying alot of bluray titles and DVDs for the last two days that i've seen in the past week just to make sure i'm not losing my mind. I think i may have to turn down my Bass level. This is what i've heard/felt:

1. It's LOUDER
2. It's LOWER
3. It's FASTER
4. I actually felt it in my freakin ear because of so low it was (Props to SVS obviously)
5. I've watched Bolt at least twice all the way through and by now know the demo quality scenes are, and there are lows that i'm noticing that just wasn't there last week when I watched it.

Here is a link so everyone knows what it looks like:

http://www.monstercable.com/company_...IEC+Power+Cord

..I went back and bought another one -- for my Marantz receiver. Outstanding - i really was not expecting such an immediate difference but there is. I really wish everyone could hear what i'm hearing.
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post #2 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:10 AM
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Snake oil

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post #3 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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lol we all have opinions
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post #4 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:14 AM
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Without any objective evidence, it'll be hard to convince anyone of this "placebo" effect. If you really want anyone to take this seriously, please use some objective measurements before and after cable is used.
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post #5 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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nope, i don't have to prove anything - i'm just sharing my experience (wonder why i'm smiling?)
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post #6 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:36 AM
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what a joke.

I am no longer able to watch a movie. I am monitoring a video display with regards to chroma, brightness, contrast and correct pulldown.
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post #7 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:57 AM
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Noel is this you?!!?!?
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post #8 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:16 AM - Thread Starter
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lol wow. i guess somebody's gonna say next that interconnects, speaker wire, hdmi cable, different phono cartridges, different turntables, different speakers, different displays etc., don't each differ and each aren't of better quality based on its parts and build quality. i'm beginning to think i've touched a nerve here! ()
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post #9 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 04:54 AM
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What a load of crap!
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post #10 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

1. It's LOUDER

This should be very simple to prove. Set an SPL meter at your listening position. Play the subwoofer test tone from your receiver. Change *nothing* but the power cord. Does the SPL level change?
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2. It's LOWER

This one will be a little more work. First download the test tones from the RealTraps website:
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm
Track 1 is individual frequencies from 10 to 19 Hz. Track 2 is individual frequencies from 20 to 29 Hz. Again, place your SPL meter at your LP. Play the tones and record the levels for each frequency. Change *nothing* but the power cord. Re-measure each frequency. Do their levels change?
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3. It's FASTER

This one can't be measured because there is no such thing as playing a frequency "faster". If a sub can play a frequency, it is, *by definition*, fast enough.
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Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

4. I actually felt it in my freakin ear because of so low it was (Props to SVS obviously)

Don't hurt yourself!
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Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

5. I've watched Bolt at least twice all the way through and by now know the demo quality scenes are, and there are lows that i'm noticing that just wasn't there last week when I watched it.

Did you change anything else, like possibly the position of the sub, or your listening position?

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #11 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 11:09 AM
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Sounds great, but already own three of these for three of my subs! ^_^

Video Games, 3D, and Home Theater Forever! ^_^

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post #12 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Craig, i have all the test equipment (spl meters, many test discs, tones etc.) but i'm not going to do any of that right now. I will keep your instructions for future reference btw I'm ALWAYS wanting to learn something new!

But to answer though, i haven't moved my Sub at all, i'm a little superstitious about that.

When i say faster, i guess it seems that the bass that i hear starts and stops quicker depending on different scenes in what i'm watching and has alot more impact than before.

I was in a HI-FI in Louisiana a couple years ago. The owner has been in the business for over 40 years, has never used a test disc or SPL meter, tunes every kind of turntable under the sun using very simple equipment (some are 15k and up equipment) and what he told me is this, "there is no audio instrument in the world that can replicate the ear". His demo HT was an NAD Amp/NAD DVD player, floorstand speakers and surrounds and a comparable sub. I have yet to hear as much realisim in Star Wars Episode I. I've heard it louder of course, maybe more bassy because the level is turned up but never again like that, and it wasn't even playing that loud. And he doesn't let the Amp figure out the crossover/phase etc., he does it all himself. I've been doing this now for at least 12 years and I have to say I learned quite a bit from this gentleman that day. We can invent all kinds of ways to measure and calculate but in the end, it still all comes down to sound

I'll also say this, if I had an extra AC cord and somebody wanted to use it for a while in their setup, I would let them use it - it makes that much of a difference.
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post #13 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post


But to answer though, i haven't moved my Sub at all, i'm a little superstitious about that.

Wow. This BS just gets better and better. What is it you think might occur if you move your sub? Seven years bad luck? (LOL)

I take it science is not your strongest suit.
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post #14 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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post #15 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:38 PM
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There are a few-a VERY few people who posess the skills to do tuning/alignment PROPERLY by ear. The rest of the people DON'T!

Just because you met somebody who was good at it (and let's not forget things like maybe the ACOUSTICAL environment you were in at the store could have A LOT to do with what you heard) DOES NOT mean that YOU can do it.

Have you tried putting the old power cable back in and seeing what happens? Maybe have somebody switch it out and not tell you which one is being used.

THEN you might have something. Maybe. But if you know which cable is being used-it is real easy to "hear" a difference.

Blind tests are the ones that show what BS this is.

But people who "believe", do not believe in blind tests.

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post #16 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Ivan I didn't say that I calibrated by ear, I can't and would not attempt to, that was the experience that I had with the owner of the HI-FI and how he does it, and do agree that very few people have that expertise. I was using that to point out that in the end however speakers are calibrated what is heard is what matters.

Is it also BS that Audiophile equipment whether it be Amps, Turntables, Speaker Monitors, or Floorstanding speakers use similar power cables -- It really is strange to read that so many claim BS when everyone is ignorant to not ever using the product itself All that i'm doing is passing on my impression of an AV Cable that I bought and included in my system that I haven't changed in the last 8 years, (as far as audio goes) and have had same Sub for the last 5. I can tell the difference in what I'm hearing if there was one - good or bad.

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post #17 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

Craig, i have all the test equipment (spl meters, many test discs, tones etc.) but i'm not going to do any of that right now. I will keep your instructions for future reference btw I'm ALWAYS wanting to learn something new!

I don't get it. You have everything you need to validate your claims, but you're "not going to do that right now"??? How do you then expect us to lend credence to your claims?

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But to answer though, i haven't moved my Sub at all, i'm a little superstitious about that.

I don't doubt you're superstitious. Wiki says: "Superstition is a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge."

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Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

I was in a HI-FI in Louisiana a couple years ago. The owner has been in the business for over 40 years, has never used a test disc or SPL meter, tunes every kind of turntable under the sun using very simple equipment (some are 15k and up equipment) and what he told me is this, "there is no audio instrument in the world that can replicate the ear".

I'm sure *he* had good, well trained ears. I know for myself, I can't get my speakers balanced to within a dB without an SPL meter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

His demo HT was an NAD Amp/NAD DVD player, floorstand speakers and surrounds and a comparable sub. I have yet to hear as much realisim in Star Wars Episode I. I've heard it louder of course, maybe more bassy because the level is turned up but never again like that, and it wasn't even playing that loud. And he doesn't let the Amp figure out the crossover/phase etc., he does it all himself. I've been doing this now for at least 12 years and I have to say I learned quite a bit from this gentleman that day. We can invent all kinds of ways to measure and calculate but in the end, it still all comes down to sound

Of course, "...it still all comes down to (how it) sounds. However, do you think subwoofer designers reply solely on their ears to design their subs? Do you honestly think that, if SVS was aware of the significant improvements you've claimed, they wouldn't switch to these power cords? Or, at least offer them as an option? I suggest you contact Ed Mullen of SVS. He's a member of the forum. Ask him for his thoughts on these power cords.

Monster claims in that link you provided:
Quote:


PowerLine 300 Delivers Four Times More Power for Better Sound and Picture

I would like to see an explanation and "*measurements* to validate that claim. Power = Voltage x Current. Whch of these does the power cord increase the delivery of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

I'll also say this, if I had an extra AC cord and somebody wanted to use it for a while in their setup, I would let them use it - it makes that much of a difference.

If you lent one to me, the *first* thing I would do is measure to see if it made anything louder or lower.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

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post #18 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

Ivan I didn't say that I calibrated by ear, I can't and would not attempt to, that was the experience that I had with the owner of the HI-FI and how he does it, and do agree that very few people have that expertise.

It really is strange to read that so may claim BS when everyone is ignorant to not ever using the item itself All that i'm doing is passing on my impression of an AV Cord that I bought and included in my system that I haven't changed in the last 8 years, (as far as audio goes) and have had same Sub for the last 5. I can tell the difference in what I'm hearing if there was one -good or bad.


The purpose of the AC cable is simply wire to bring the AC voltage into the sub. Once it is there-the "sound" of the cabinet is determined by the amplifier and loudspeaker driver-PERIOD!

As long as the AC cable is not having any loss while delivering power (I doubt your old cable was having loss), then it has done its job. The AC power is converted to DC for the amp to actually run off of. Therefore anything "special" that the cable "might" be providing is lost by the time it is converted to DC.

Now if you moved your sub to a slightly different position while replacing the cable-I have no doubt you might be hearing something different-due to room modes. But THAT is not due to the power cable-just the fact that you moved your sub.

And in scientific terms-you have now changed 2 things (cable and position) so you have no idea what has actually caused the change.

But in the end, I am glad you are happy, and I am sure the store was willing to take your money and make them happy also-and Monster was also happy.

So see- buying an expensive AC cable IS GOOD (or at least some people are happier).

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post #19 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:05 PM
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When you noticed this drastic difference in sound quality between the two power cords, did you attempt to use any logic or reasoning as to why or how a power cord could bring about such a tranformation? Does it make any sense to you scientifically at all? Are you sure your old power cord wasn't very defective?
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post #20 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

When you noticed this drastic difference in sound quality between the two power cords, did you attempt to use any logic or reasoning as to why or how a power cord could bring about such a tranformation? Does it make any sense to you scientifically at all? Are you sure your old power cord wasn't very defective?

I actually did look at the two cables i replaced and they're in good condition. The only thing changed was the two cables replaced and that is all. We all know that the quality of a picture is dependant upon the source material but how the signal transmits in between has an effect as well. The same goes for sound, there are many variables that can make sound sound worse, vibration, dust, dirt (when playing records), worn out records, inferior cartridges, magnetism, interferance, acoustics, poor amplification etc., in trying to diminish some of these things is what makes sound sound better right? I would think if someone invested thousands of dollars one would research and learn as much as one could to get the most out of what was purchased. I've been reading up on this for at least 4 years but never bought any until now.
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post #21 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:32 PM
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Sorry, but when it comes to electronics, I just personally have no tolerance for a path of reasoning that is not in any way based on logic or science. But whatever, if it sounds good to you, enjoy.
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post #22 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post


I've been reading up on this for at least 4 years but never bought any until now.



There are a few others who agree with you. If you disagree with the research, the mods will make sure that you are replaced with a different cord!


Link between power cable upgrade's and dope
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post #23 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:48 PM
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The Monster cable more than likely gave you a better connection (tighter) to the sub via the plug-in. That's why some of the guys use "Hospital" grade plug-ins on their cords and wall outlets.

Bill
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post #24 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

The Monster cable more than likely gave you a better connection (tighter) to the sub via the plug-in. That's why some of the guys use "Hospital" grade plug-ins on their cords and wall outlets.

Bill

Yeah, that's it! I'm sure the tighter connection provides four times more power!

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #25 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:53 PM
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Wow, I just tried one on my computer and now my internet's FASTER!
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post #26 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

I actually did look at the two cables i replaced and they're in good condition. The only thing changed was the two cables replaced and that is all. We all know that the quality of a picture is dependant upon the source material but how the signal transmits in between has an effect as well. The same goes for sound, there are many variables that can make sound sound worse, vibration, dust, dirt (when playing records), worn out records, inferior cartridges, magnetism, interferance, acoustics, poor amplification etc., in trying to diminish some of these things is what makes sound sound better right? I would think if someone invested thousands of dollars one would research and learn as much as one could to get the most out of what was purchased. I've been reading up on this for at least 4 years but never bought any until now.

It doesn't matter what the OUTSIDE of the cable looks like-it is ALL about the quality of the connections INSIDE-that you can't see.

I bet the used car guys LOVE you-since all you seem to be concerned with is outside appearance and not what is happening "under the hood".

Since when does the audio signal travel on the AC power cable? And I still stand by my statement that the amp runs off of DC NOT the AC coming into the unit. Yes I will agree that most of your statements can affect the sound quality-but they are DIRECTLY affecting it. The AC power cable IS NOT.

As was said earlier-if the power cable alone would make that much difference-then why don't manufacturers all upgrade to them to make their products perform better?

Ya know-if you want it sound even better, you should raise the cables off of the floor But only with "special" lifters.

And even better yet-you should replace your wall outlets-along with the covers-you know the vibrations from the covers can greatly affect the sound quality. You can get a good outlet cover for a less than a thousand dollars.

And don't forget about the DC blockers you should put on the AC line as well-your cable will work better with them.

And don't forget about getting new breakers for your HT as well. You know those "magnetic" types affect the sound.

AND ALWAYS ALWAYS be sure to check for the proper phase of your AC signal. I assume you know that the power company changes the phase of the grid from time to time and you always need to be able to switch your system to the other "phase" in order to get good sound.

Anyway-jsut trying to give some "helpful" ideas that can allow you to improve the sound even more.

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post #27 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Yeah, that's it! I'm sure the tighter connection provides four times more power!



The conclusive research results are posted in my link above. Here is part of the latest research:


"So, what effect did this new set of Hospital Grade AC Plugs have when I put them on the power cords of my Megachanger, 2 Digital Processors and Preamp?

Since the AC Power eventually becomes the Music we listen to the improved build quality and super tight fit of the new Hospital Grade AC Plugs enhanced the performance of my equipment which resulted in my being able to now hear the individual unique sonic signature of each and every instrument with a clarity that was simply impossible when I was using the stock molded plugs.

There was a new ultra tight integrity to the Harmonic Structure and the creation of lingering decay envelopes that transverse the entire soundstage instantaneously. The tonal character had become rich, lush and more full of instrumental bloom due to a substantial increase in dynamics provided by more instant access to the AC current now coming through the new Hospital Grade plugs.

One of the most welcome improvements was that the Music was more mellifulous and natural sounding than I had ever heard it before.

One thing I wanted to mention specifically about the effect that the new Hospital Grade AC Plug had on the Sony CX300 Megachanger and that was that it removed a layer of Digititus from the presentation which gave a new super smooth and relaxed feel to the Music that I have only heard on one other occasion and that was back in 2000 when I heard a Sota Turntable driving a pair of Cary SLAM 100 Tube Monoblocks. I never imagined that replacing a single molded plug on a stock captured cord on a piece of Sony equipment would have this much of a dramatic effect in my Audio system."
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post #28 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

The conclusive research results are posted in my link above. Here is part of the latest research:


"So, what effect did this new set of Hospital Grade AC Plugs have when I put them on the power cords of my Megachanger, 2 Digital Processors and Preamp?

Since the AC Power eventually becomes the Music we listen to the improved build quality and super tight fit of the new Hospital Grade AC Plugs enhanced the performance of my equipment which resulted in my being able to now hear the individual unique sonic signature of each and every instrument with a clarity that was simply impossible when I was using the stock molded plugs.

There was a new ultra tight integrity to the Harmonic Structure and the creation of lingering decay envelopes that transverse the entire soundstage instantaneously. The tonal character had become rich, lush and more full of instrumental bloom due to a substantial increase in dynamics provided by more instant access to the AC current now coming through the new Hospital Grade plugs.

One of the most welcome improvements was that the Music was more mellifulous and natural sounding than I had ever heard it before.

One thing I wanted to mention specifically about the effect that the new Hospital Grade AC Plug had on the Sony CX300 Megachanger and that was that it removed a layer of Digititus from the presentation which gave a new super smooth and relaxed feel to the Music that I have only heard on one other occasion and that was back in 2000 when I heard a Sota Turntable driving a pair of Cary SLAM 100 Tube Monoblocks. I never imagined that replacing a single molded plug on a stock captured cord on a piece of Sony equipment would have this much of a dramatic effect in my Audio system."


Now that is amazing! My own research gave me exactly the same results. Obviously, it's way more than a mere coincidence!
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post #29 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 02:11 PM
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I heard putting a finger up one's arse can make the bass in any subwoofer tighter.
calvieee is offline  
post #30 of 68 Old 08-02-2009, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvieee View Post

I heard putting a finger up one's arse can make the bass in any subwoofer tighter.

It couldn't hurt. Well, on second thought...
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Closed Thread Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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