JTR Captivator - Page 13 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #361 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 12:59 AM
Senior Member
 
HT_New_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So is this the best sub (for the price) to get the ultra low 10-15hz output? I see the HSU ULS-15 is said to play down to 10hz... but no one else really claims that for less than $3500. Is this the best bet?
HT_New_Guy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #362 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 04:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT_New_Guy View Post
So is this the best sub (for the price) to get the ultra low 10-15hz output? I see the HSU ULS-15 is said to play down to 10hz... but no one else really claims that for less than $3500. Is this the best bet?
We're talking about a Captivator that is tuned to 15hz and would best be used with a 14hz filter below that. So no, I wouldn't consider it the best choice for 10hz response. It may be one of the most powerful subs at 15hz however.

Also last I heard, the ones built from here on in will be tuned to 20hz instead of 15. Output will be even greater, but not as deep. You might want to check with Jeff to find out if he is still willing to build the 15hz version.

For true 10hz response, you need multiple sealed subs that run without low filters and you might also need eq to boost the bottom. Ported subs are not really the answer for useable 10hz response.
mojomike is offline  
post #363 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 10:24 AM
Senior Member
 
HT_New_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Are there any subs that do this?
HT_New_Guy is offline  
post #364 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 10:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT_New_Guy View Post

Are there any subs that do this?

Yes, the Danley DTS-10 and I think the Orbit Shifter. I think maybe the Terraform does as well. You have to pay to play or DIY.

LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
MKtheater is offline  
post #365 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 01:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,089
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 41
It is ironic that I have seen at least a handfull of FR plots of the Seaton Submersive with response to under 10 hz. The thing is, those FR plots were always taken at about 78 db. I always asked for the plots at 100, 105, and 110 db, but don't remember anyone every following up with the requested plots.

One would also want THD plots at 100, 105, and 110 db so you would know if you are getting ~80% THD at 10 Hz and 105 db, (assuming the Submersive could actually deliver 10 Hz at 105 db).
spyboy is offline  
post #366 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 01:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
A sub such as the Submersive is going to depend on the type of room gain that you get from a smallish, sealed room to provide useful output at 10hz. Otherwise, you would need multiple Submersives and a good deal of eq. It's just physics. You can't fight it.
mojomike is offline  
post #367 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 02:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,089
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

We're talking about a Captivator that is tuned to 15hz and would best be used with a 14hz filter below that. So no, I wouldn't consider it the best choice for 10hz response. It may be one of the most powerful subs at 15hz however.

Also last I heard, the ones built from here on in will be tuned to 20hz instead of 15. Output will be even greater, but not as deep. You might want to check with Jeff to find out if he is still willing to build the 15hz version.

For true 10hz response, you need multiple sealed subs that run without low filters and you might also need eq to boost the bottom. Ported subs are not really the answer for useable 10hz response.

What happened to the Captivator? Wasn't it a sealed design originally? Now it seems that sacrificing sub 20 Hz performance for greater 25Hz> performance is the direction things are going. Might as well get an SVS PB-13 Ultra with the 1,000 watt SLEDGE amp and run it in 20 hz mode.
spyboy is offline  
post #368 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 02:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
The original Captivator had an 18" passive radiator with a 12" active driver. The new Captivators are ported with a massive 68 lb 18" driver.

The difference between a Captivator and a PB-13 is that the Captivator will have the output of at least three PB13's.
mojomike is offline  
post #369 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 02:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,089
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The original Captivator had an 18" passive radiator with a 12" active driver. The new Captivators are ported with a massive 68 lb 18" driver.

The difference between a Captivator and a PB-13 is that the Captivator will have the output of at least three PB13's.

OK, ported with a massive 18 inch driver tuned to 20 Hz.

It's comical that some companies are striving for uber output to below 10 Hz and others are winning the war with little response below 20 hz and uber output above 20 Hz.

Can't wait to hear from the 3 people who are buying the new Captivator.
spyboy is offline  
post #370 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 02:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
The Captivator I'm waiting on is tuned to 15hz. Apparently, any ordered from this point on will be tuned to 20hz unless Jeff decides to offer different variations. I will be offering up my impressions of the sub compared with my PB13 once I get my hands on it and am able to give it a proper shakedown.
mojomike is offline  
post #371 of 4766 Old 12-07-2010, 06:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

OK, ported with a massive 18 inch driver tuned to 20 Hz.

It's comical that some companies are striving for uber output to below 10 Hz and others are winning the war with little response below 20 hz and uber output above 20 Hz.

Can't wait to hear from the 3 people who are buying the new Captivator.

Well bein a hobby guess ya gotta have somethin to do. Once you have 20hz and up handled then there is 10hz to 20hz and lastly 10hz on down. What a lot of people don't realize (I know you do) is that you can have output down to 10hz and below but if it's not substantial then it's meaningless in the real world. Then, the other part of the equation is if a movie even contains it then it also has to be recorded at a significant level. I have 2) DTS 10s nearfield and not high passed so I get plenty of shakin up goin on. I'm lookin forward to my 15hz tune Cap to even out room response. It should be interesting. I doubt my local IMAX is hitting below 20hz and I still enjoy it. It goes into smaller degrees of what deeper and deeper bass starts to contribute to the enjoyment factor. It takes a LOT more cone area to get those last few hertz. Get close and be happy or be lucky enough to have a room with lots of gain (MK Theater) or IB or lots of watts and drivers - almost always a compromise.
gpmbc is online now  
post #372 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 05:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Jeff Permanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes, the Danley DTS-10 and I think the Orbit Shifter. I think maybe the Terraform does as well. You have to pay to play or DIY.

Actually, the DTS-10 can't: recommended processing.....15hz HP@24db/butterworth. All vented speakers and tapped horns need a high pass filter just below tuning because there is no acoustic load below tuning (think of a car engine in neutral). The Obrit Shifter LF has a sealed rear chamber so it can play down into the single digits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The Captivator I'm waiting on is tuned to 15hz. Apparently, any ordered from this point on will be tuned to 20hz unless Jeff decides to offer different variations. I will be offering up my impressions of the sub compared with my PB13 once I get my hands on it and am able to give it a proper shakedown.

I just placed the order for foam plugs for the Captivator's port which will be included with the Captivator. For 15hz tuning, simple install the foam plug and if you have a powered version then install the foam plug and switch the dsp mode on the amplifier.
Jeff Permanian is offline  
post #373 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 06:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post


I just placed the order for foam plugs for the Captivator's port which will be included with the Captivator. For 15hz tuning, simple install the foam plug and if you have a powered version then install the foam plug and switch the dsp mode on the amplifier.

Cool! Tuneable like my PB13. I presume that the 15hz tuned mode with the plug in place will still have sufficient "breathing"?
mojomike is offline  
post #374 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 06:26 PM
Member
 
Sidewayz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: HUSKERLAND
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Can't wait to hear from the 3 people who are buying the new Captivator.

Geeze spyboy, whats with the hate-on for JTR? When I called about Captivators, they were all sold and awaiting material so new ones could be built. Those 3 people must have bought alot of subs!!
Sidewayz is offline  
post #375 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 06:53 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked: 475
[quote=Jeff Permanian;19617183]Actually, the DTS-10 can't: recommended processing.....15hz HP@24db/butterworth. All vented speakers and tapped horns need a high pass filter just below tuning because there is no acoustic load below tuning (think of a car engine in neutral). The Obrit Shifter LF has a sealed rear chamber so it can play down into the single digits.



I never used a HP on my dts-10's and never had any problems with any material well behond reference levels. I can see it in huge rooms.

LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
MKtheater is offline  
post #376 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 06:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


I never used a HP on my dts-10's and never had any problems with any material well behond reference levels. I can see it in huge rooms.

With all due respect, MK, with you having two of them in your small sealed room, your DTS-10's were loafing along even beyond reference levels.
mojomike is offline  
post #377 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 07:04 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

With all due respect, MK, with you having two of them in your small sealed room, your DTS-10's were loafing along even beyond reference levels.

It is only small due to the low ceilings. I do realize that but to say the DTS-10 can't will depend. I do understand about the OS but that would need major EQ to get the 10hz range even with midbass area, or, put it in my room.

LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
MKtheater is offline  
post #378 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 10:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Jeff Permanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It is only small due to the low ceilings. I do realize that but to say the DTS-10 can't will depend. I do understand about the OS but that would need major EQ to get the 10hz range even with midbass area, or, put it in my room.

The Orbit Shifter's roll off works extremely well at mating in with room gain. In RMK's room we had solid output down to 7hz, raw, no eq:
Jeff Permanian is offline  
post #379 of 4766 Old 12-08-2010, 10:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 80
With mention of port plugs are slot vents no longer in use?
gpmbc is online now  
post #380 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 06:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Jeff Permanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
With mention of port plugs are slot vents no longer in use?
Each Captivator only comes with one plug to plug one side of the vent. It is not recomended to plug both sides.
Jeff Permanian is offline  
post #381 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 07:28 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,667
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
The Orbit Shifter's roll off works extremely well at mating in with room gain. In RMK's room we had solid output down to 7hz, raw, no eq:
That looks very nice. What is the natural rolloff and at what frequency does it happen? My room has tons of gain from 30hz and down. To put it this way, it created a 15 db peak at 18hz with my dts-10's or a 5 db peak with the best placement(of course I can't use them in this spot). When I get tired of playing around with my CS subs and JBL speakers my next project was going to try Seaton cat's, triple 12's, or Danley SM60F's with OS's. Seaton's would be tuff though as I would have to run XLR cable all over.

Jeff, you have always been a friendly guy and made some awesome products, good job and keep it up!

LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
MKtheater is offline  
post #382 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 07:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
You are totally crazy, man! I love it.
mojomike is offline  
post #383 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Jeff Permanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
2011 Captivator:

Fabric grill that is magnetically attached:
Jeff Permanian is offline  
post #384 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 09:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 80
That looks sweet! Send it out send it out send it out
gpmbc is online now  
post #385 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 10:05 AM
Senior Member
 
Quaxtros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
+1
Quaxtros is offline  
post #386 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 10:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

That looks sweet! Send it out send it out send it out

What he said!
mojomike is offline  
post #387 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 10:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TnTBigman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That does look sweet.

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

$ubwoofer$ and premium mango tree cultivar$

TnTBigman is offline  
post #388 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 10:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Yes, sweet in a beastly "I'm going to destroy the room" kind of way.
mojomike is offline  
post #389 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Jeff Permanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
So, apparently, when walls flex a lot, the drywall crumbles around the drywall screws
Jeff Permanian is offline  
post #390 of 4766 Old 12-09-2010, 11:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Damn it, I wondered what those little remnants were scattered about the room
gpmbc is online now  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off