JTR Captivator - Page 145 - AVS Forum
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post #4321 of 4739 Old 04-29-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Lot's of great sounding speakers and a pair of S2's ... doesn't get any better than that!smile.gif

...except maybe an HT with four S2's. biggrin.gif

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post #4322 of 4739 Old 05-13-2013, 05:43 PM
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Does anyone have a link or information about how to set up a mic 2200 with the captivator that jeff talked about?
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post #4323 of 4739 Old 05-13-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

...except maybe an HT with four S2's. biggrin.gif
Which I guess is the equivalent of what you have. biggrin.gif
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post #4324 of 4739 Old 05-13-2013, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Does anyone have a link or information about how to set up a mic 2200 with the captivator that jeff talked about?

Goonstopher if your referring to the 2400 Passive Captivator Jonathan helped me to get the best response I could using the Dayton Omnimic V2 and the MIC2200 EQ. If not using Omnimic (MIC 2200 EQ disengaged) but engaging the HPF on the MIC2200 you can set for port tune (20Hz for my situation). Then see the cut and paste below from page 140 on this thread which details how I have plugged in cables to the back of my unit. Has worked for me perfectly with this arrangement and using the Dayton V2 Omnimic with MIC2200 EQ has gone a step further and allowed me to achieve the flattest resoponse for my situation. My trial and error with omnimic is also in this thread on the last couple of pages I think if you need to go down that path. Just remember that the EQ below was just a guess at this stage and pre omnimic tailoring. Hope this helps.

QUOTE PASTED FROM P140

"I have also had the MIC2200 engaged for a bit now and have had some success calibrating the Parametric EQ and feel I'm getting a cleaner sound than I was before. Its a shot in the dark without the right gear but for now I definitely prefer when the EQ is on (see below my settings, let me know if you guys notice anything out of the ordinary).

MIC2200

FRONT PANEL

MIC GAIN/MIC/LINE: Off
LO CUT: On (18Hz or Port Tune)
FREQUENCY: 0.1 On (32Hz started at 45Hz but this is really a guess)
OCTAVE BANDWIDTH: On (1.8 started at around 1.6 also a guess)
LEVEL: On (+4 or+5dB I like the extra punch this gives)
OUTPUT: Set at Zero

REAR PANEL MIC2200 to EP4000

RCA to XLR (From AVR to MIC2200): Hooked up to Channel 1
1st TPS connector (From MIC2200 to EP4000): Hooked up from Output Channel 1 MIC2200 to Input 1 EP4000
2nd TPS connector (from MIC2200 to EP4000): Hooked up from Output Channel 2 MIC2200 to Input 2 EP4000

Archaea Im pretty sure this is correct (rear panel setup) but if you can see anything obvious that shouldn't be I'd appreciate any feedback. Haven't looked at display for MIC2200 whilst in running but enjoy the extra Bass coming through with the level knob slightly increased. I now feel there is a clearer bass signal and more impact after much A/B testing and am loving this bloody thing! I run my Yamaha at around -40dB (moderate listening) to -26dB (loud listening) and the CAP has been well matched as I said earlier to levels of all speakers. May change soon as Im considering adding a Rotel RMB 1075 which Im hoping will improve the detail/clarity of Mains/Centre/Rears when listening at louder volumes (but thats for another thread right......?)

Klipsch: KLF-30, KLF C-7, KG 5.5, KG 4.2 Power&Preamp: Elektra Theatron, Rotel RSP 1570
Subs: Dual Passive JTR 2400 Captivators
Power Amps: Behringer EP 4000, Crown XLS 5000
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post #4325 of 4739 Old 05-14-2013, 09:02 AM
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I only plan on using the hpf and Lin level boost. What is a good setting for the hpf? I think its tuned to 15?

What about the volume / line level?
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post #4326 of 4739 Old 05-15-2013, 02:14 AM
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Mine is set at about 18Hz for the HPF (port tune is around 20Hz for mine). It will just be a guess for your line level but mine was at about +4dB. Do a bit of A/B testing to see what you prefer. Highly recommend Getting the Dayton V2 omnimic. Not as hard as it seems with advice here to help then youll really know where you stand re output.

Klipsch: KLF-30, KLF C-7, KG 5.5, KG 4.2 Power&Preamp: Elektra Theatron, Rotel RSP 1570
Subs: Dual Passive JTR 2400 Captivators
Power Amps: Behringer EP 4000, Crown XLS 5000
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post #4327 of 4739 Old 05-15-2013, 05:17 AM
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The analog dial on the HPF knob of the mic2200 is generally accurate on mine. It is labeled frequency low cut and should be set to just about right at the frequency you want. I have mine at 20hz with the Crown XLS-5000. I had it a click or two under with the EP4000 because that amp wasn't powerful enough to bottom out the drivers even with no HPF engaged. The crown has enough power to make the driver lose control below port tune where the ported cabinet is no longer helping resist driver excursion. My line levels are just 0'ed out,(knob on the far right) - but again the Crown doesn't need any help getting loud. The mic2200 can be used for dual parametric EQ when you daisey chain the channels - that's how I'm using it. I'm giving it a bit of a boost at 30hz range and a bit of a boost at 70hz range - but that is tailored for my room and sub position. Your boost or cut frequencies may be completely diffferent. The omnimic is a sound recommendation to make the most of your HPF and parametric EQs.

If you read the last 10 pages of this thread or so you'll definitely see some setup advice for the mic2200.



POSITION OF THE SUBS and LISTENING POSITION MAKES SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!

here is an older test I ran
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1375633/ep4000-vs-inuke-dsp-3000-w-2-jtr-captivators-and-an-omnimic-which-amp-is-better

In that test I had to cut 70hz by about 10dB, I moved the subs to optimal position and now I actually boost a couple db at 70hz to keep a flat frequency response line. My current FR chart is flatter than my original go listed in the thread above - but with only two bands it still isn't as flat as what the Inuke can do with it's 8 bands of parametric EQ. I simply like the extra power in the crown over the Inuke - so that's why I'm still using the mic2200/crown combo. I'd prefer the Inuke DSP 3000 with an omnimic over a EP4000/mic2200/omnimic personally, but you'll need measuring gear to set it up correctly.

That should explain why we can't just throw parametric EQ settings at you and hope it works - you need to tailor the sound to you room and listening position using measuring gear like an omnimic or REW.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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2011 KC Sub Shootout
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #4328 of 4739 Old 05-15-2013, 12:40 PM
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I dont plan on using the EQ - Just want to know how high to set the gain to boost the level
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post #4329 of 4739 Old 05-15-2013, 02:32 PM
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leave the mic2200 gain at 0 most likely. instead adjust through your AVR subwoofer trim or LFE trim. Ideally your AVR trim on the subwoofer should be negative rather than positive. I've heard experts say ideally between 0 and -6 for AVR subwoofer trim is your goal. It really shouldn't matter much either way on this particular point.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #4330 of 4739 Old 05-15-2013, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

leave it at 0 most likely. instead adjust through your AVR subwoofer trim. Ideally your AVR trim on the subwoofer should be negative rather than positive. I've heard experts say ideally between 0 and -6 for AVR subwoofer trim is your goal. It really shouldn't matter much either way on this particular point.

mines at -2.5. Anything else and my house will fall apart.
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post #4331 of 4739 Old 05-15-2013, 08:47 PM
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my wife and kids were out today and twice I cut my sytem loose -- once this morning before work, and then tonight for a while.

I broke out into a stupid grin this morning listening to dubstep --- it's fantastic that my captivator subs still force me to smile nearly 2 years into ownership.


Then tonight in the breakout session I had an empty cardboard box sitting on the concrete a few feet away and to the side of one of the subs. I'd just unloaded that box from a lot of DVDs I purchased from a person at work who was letting them go for about a buck a piece. When I cranked up the music and the bass was hitting heavy I noticed the box was rotating slowly on the concrete slab (tiled) basement floor. LOL. vibrating a cardboard box on concrete! Truly! There just aren't very many subs that can do that! cool.gifbiggrin.gif
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"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #4332 of 4739 Old 05-16-2013, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

my wife and kids were out today and twice I cut my sytem loose -- once this morning before work, and then tonight for a while.

I broke out into a stupid grin this morning listening to dubstep --- it's fantastic that my captivator subs still force me to smile nearly 2 years into ownership.


Then tonight in the breakout session I had an empty cardboard box sitting on the concrete a few feet away and to the side of one of the subs. I'd just unloaded that box from a lot of DVDs I purchased from a person at work who was letting them go for about a buck a piece. When I cranked up the music and the bass was hitting heavy I noticed the box was rotating slowly on the concrete slab (tiled) basement floor. LOL. vibrating a cardboard box on concrete! Truly! There just aren't very many subs that can do that! cool.gifbiggrin.gif

Thats awesome! I am now the proud owner of dual Caps! Thats awesome too!
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Klipsch: KLF-30, KLF C-7, KG 5.5, KG 4.2 Power&Preamp: Elektra Theatron, Rotel RSP 1570
Subs: Dual Passive JTR 2400 Captivators
Power Amps: Behringer EP 4000, Crown XLS 5000
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post #4333 of 4739 Old 05-16-2013, 05:54 AM
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Same here. Still love the cap after 2yrs of owning it. Every time I have the opportunity, I crank the ba-jesus out of it.
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post #4334 of 4739 Old 05-16-2013, 10:50 AM
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Try this if you want to crush some dubstep (0:55 mark is where the awesomeness happens). I told Carp to use it for his next GTG. This ought to just destroy is house. Come to think of it, Popalock's as well. I only have a single Cap and it just is insane...


eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
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post #4335 of 4739 Old 05-26-2013, 12:23 PM
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perhaps someone can help to clarify my understanding of the benefits of multiple subs. specifically the Cap S2.

1) sealed sub-woofers are designed for for lower extension, but provide less output...?
2) so adding another or more sealed sub-woofers provides more output at the same extension...? lower extension...? or some combination of the two..?
3) is it linear, or at least predictable...? going from 2-3, and 3-4, so on will provide linear results?
4) is there a cut-off where there is nothing more to gain by adding more S-2's?
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post #4336 of 4739 Old 05-26-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siriusproper View Post

perhaps someone can help to clarify my understanding of the benefits of multiple subs. specifically the Cap S2.

1) sealed sub-woofers are designed for for lower extension, but provide less output...?
2) so adding another or more sealed sub-woofers provides more output at the same extension...? lower extension...? or some combination of the two..?
3) is it linear, or at least predictable...? going from 2-3, and 3-4, so on will provide linear results?
4) is there a cut-off where there is nothing more to gain by adding more S-2's?

The S2 is an amazing sub. It's expensive, but worth every penny! I'll try to answer your questions in order:

1) Yes, while this is not a law, if the same driver is compared in a sealed configuration and a ported configuration, the general trend is for sealed subwoofers to have greater output below the tuning frequency of the ported box. There are caveats, though - the sealed sub will often not have as flat a frequency response as the ported (down to the tuning point of the ported box), and will rely upon some combination of EQ and room gain (greater in smaller rooms, generally) to make up the output deficiencies compared to the ported box. In the S2 and most other high-end sealed configurations, this is done through the use of a DSP equalization profile built into the amp (and often not user-customizable).

Plus, tuning a ported or horn design really low (much below 20hz) requires an ENORMOUS box. The tradeoff for efficiency (more output higher up in the range) is box size, generally. TLDR: at 20hz tuning, a ported box will have more ouput than a sealed box, but will drop off significantly faster (by design) below that tuning frequency than a sealed box.

2) & 3) Adding more of the same exact sub with the same exact frequency response and power does nothing to change the response characteristics of the subs themselves. However, every doubling of the exact same subs adds double the output within the coupling range - at all frequencies where the wavelength(s) in question is less than the distance between the speakers. So, 2 subs is double the output of 1 at coupling frequencies. 4 is double 2, etc. Adding multiple subs also will often help smooth out the room cancellation or excitement modes to eliminate big dips/peaks in response within a room. This varies with the amount and placement of subs, so trial and error is important in getting it right with multiple subs.

4) You never stop gaining by doubling the number of subs, but the point of diminishing returns is reached when you meet your required level of output at desired frequency response. This varies by person, but many are happy with two S2s, though some may require 3 or more to hit that sweet spot.

I think this is approximately right, although I'm no authority on the subject. Good luck, and let us know how many you end up going with!
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post #4337 of 4739 Old 05-26-2013, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siriusproper View Post

perhaps someone can help to clarify my understanding of the benefits of multiple subs. specifically the Cap S2.

1) sealed sub-woofers are designed for for lower extension, but provide less output...?
2) so adding another or more sealed sub-woofers provides more output at the same extension...? lower extension...? or some combination of the two..?
3) is it linear, or at least predictable...? going from 2-3, and 3-4, so on will provide linear results?
4) is there a cut-off where there is nothing more to gain by adding more S-2's?

As per Jeff, when compared with a ported cap with 2.4K amp, S2 provides equal output above 20 Hz and substantially more output below that.

When compared with the OS, it provides 6 db less output above 20 Hz and provides 6 db more output below that.

Unless you have a huge room the primary benefit of multiple S2s would be smoother frequency response not output, because it's unlikely that you will use the full output capabilities of a single S2.

In my room a single S2 gets flat to 5 Hz at reference at my MLP which is 9 feet away and the drivers are barely moving.
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post #4338 of 4739 Old 05-26-2013, 09:13 PM
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i spoke to Jeff of JTR Speakers, and he suggested 2 S-2's for me. based on what i described to him of the room i could have, he said 2 could hurt the house. but hurt seems so ordinary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

As per Jeff, when compared with a ported cap with 2.4K amp, S2 provides equal output above 20 Hz and substantially more output below that.

When compared with the OS, it provides 6 db less output above 20 Hz and provides 6 db more output below that.

Unless you have a huge room the primary benefit of multiple S2s would be smoother frequency response not output, because it's unlikely that you will use the full output capabilities of a single S2.

In my room a single S2 gets flat to 5 Hz at reference at my MLP which is 9 feet away and the drivers are barely moving.
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post #4339 of 4739 Old 05-26-2013, 09:46 PM
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thanks. i hope to use this information to build a reasonable HT/Music system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

The S2 is an amazing sub. It's expensive, but worth every penny! I'll try to answer your questions in order:

1) Yes, while this is not a law, if the same driver is compared in a sealed configuration and a ported configuration, the general trend is for sealed subwoofers to have greater output below the tuning frequency of the ported box. There are caveats, though - the sealed sub will often not have as flat a frequency response as the ported (down to the tuning point of the ported box), and will rely upon some combination of EQ and room gain (greater in smaller rooms, generally) to make up the output deficiencies compared to the ported box. In the S2 and most other high-end sealed configurations, this is done through the use of a DSP equalization profile built into the amp (and often not user-customizable).

Plus, tuning a ported or horn design really low (much below 20hz) requires an ENORMOUS box. The tradeoff for efficiency (more output higher up in the range) is box size, generally. TLDR: at 20hz tuning, a ported box will have more ouput than a sealed box, but will drop off significantly faster (by design) below that tuning frequency than a sealed box.

2) & 3) Adding more of the same exact sub with the same exact frequency response and power does nothing to change the response characteristics of the subs themselves. However, every doubling of the exact same subs adds double the output within the coupling range - at all frequencies where the wavelength(s) in question is less than the distance between the speakers. So, 2 subs is double the output of 1 at coupling frequencies. 4 is double 2, etc. Adding multiple subs also will often help smooth out the room cancellation or excitement modes to eliminate big dips/peaks in response within a room. This varies with the amount and placement of subs, so trial and error is important in getting it right with multiple subs.

4) You never stop gaining by doubling the number of subs, but the point of diminishing returns is reached when you meet your required level of output at desired frequency response. This varies by person, but many are happy with two S2s, though some may require 3 or more to hit that sweet spot.

I think this is approximately right, although I'm no authority on the subject. Good luck, and let us know how many you end up going with!
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post #4340 of 4739 Old 05-27-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by siriusproper View Post

i spoke to Jeff of JTR Speakers, and he suggested 2 S-2's for me. based on what i described to him of the room i could have, he said 2 could hurt the house. but hurt seems so ordinary.

2 is better than one smile.gif
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post #4341 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 07:11 PM
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So I have been lookingn at those captivator s1000's with the 18" radiator in the for sale section. 1000.00 seems like a good deal, but there has to be a reason why they are still for sale? Would they work well with 2 PSA XV15's in the same room? I can not find any specs on them. Would somebody be so kind to post the specs?
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post #4342 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 07:40 PM
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So I have been thinking over these past couple weeks of what to do and am really leaning towards the cap 1000 passive with an amp and mic2200 . I am a little worried for I am so green when it comes to half of what you all talk about but figure get the correct equipment and learn. I have a pioneer vsx 1522 with no sub eq and that is my biggest concern on learning to eq it in my 24x17x9 room that is mainly used for ht. I would like to spend 2 to 2.5 k but am a little over my head I believe would I be better off going with a fv15hp either way it will be placed nearfield.
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post #4343 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

So I have been lookingn at those captivator s1000's with the 18" radiator in the for sale section. 1000.00 seems like a good deal, but there has to be a reason why they are still for sale? Would they work well with 2 PSA XV15's in the same room? I can not find any specs on them. Would somebody be so kind to post the specs?
The caps will have more output in all areas over the 15s you have now. You will also need a external amp for the caps. You can ask the seller how much power he's running on them. Or email Jeff at jtrspeakers.
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post #4344 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RON82ND View Post

So I have been thinking over these past couple weeks of what to do and am really leaning towards the cap 1000 passive with an amp and mic2200 . I am a little worried for I am so green when it comes to half of what you all talk about but figure get the correct equipment and learn. I have a pioneer vsx 1522 with no sub eq and that is my biggest concern on learning to eq it in my 24x17x9 room that is mainly used for ht. I would like to spend 2 to 2.5 k but am a little over my head I believe would I be better off going with a fv15hp either way it will be placed nearfield.
From the look of the website, jtr doesn't have a passive 1000 cap. Passive means you need an external amp to power the sub.
Jtr only has a powered (built in amp) cap 1000, which is easier for you because it would be easier to set up. I mean you can request what ever you want and Jeff will build it.
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post #4345 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

From the look of the website, jtr doesn't have a passive 1000 cap. Passive means you need an external amp to power the sub.
Jtr only has a powered (built in amp) cap 1000, which is easier for you because it would be easier to set up. I mean you can request what ever you want and Jeff will build it.

When you look at the specs for the Captivator 1000, if you look closely at the bottom there's a notation that you can get a passive Cap for $1199. So Jeff does offer one.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #4346 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

The caps will have more output in all areas over the 15s you have now. You will also need a external amp for the caps. You can ask the seller how much power he's running on them. Or email Jeff at jtrspeakers.

I know I will need a amp and I figured they would have more output than my xv15's...However I was curious what the tuning point was on them and how well they would work WITH my xv15's?
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post #4347 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I know I will need a amp and I figured they would have more output than my xv15's...However I was curious what the tuning point was on them and how well they would work WITH my xv15's?

I think the port tune is 17.5hz. I think they would work okay with your XV15's, I'm guessing you'd place the XV15's near field and have the Cap's up front in your room?

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Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #4348 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I think the port tune is 17.5hz. I think they would work okay with your XV15's, I'm guessing you'd place the XV15's near field and have the Cap's up front in your room?

Yup...Thats exactly what Im thinking! I already have the XV15's nearfield and they slam hard, but Im on a quest for 120db in the 15hz area. I need another 5-7db output to acomplish this. do you think the cap1000's will get me there?
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post #4349 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Yup...Thats exactly what Im thinking! I already have the XV15's nearfield and they slam hard, but Im on a quest for 120db in the 15hz area. I need another 5-7db output to acomplish this. do you think the cap1000's will get me there?

Are we talking if you were to upgrade them to the newest drivers or just use them with the old ones?

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #4350 of 4739 Old 06-17-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Are we talking if you were to upgrade them to the newest drivers or just use them with the old ones?

Just use the old ones...my other option was to pick up that xv30 b stock. that should get me another 3-6db, but i thought dual cap's with a crown amp would yield more output?
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