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post #721 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 03:11 PM
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I'd call the Captivator "ruggedly" good-looking by intention. It's not likely to win beauty contests, but it's build quality is flawless.

I believe that Jeff can offer at a premium pretty much any veneer than one might want. I'd love to see pics of a Cap with a premium veneer if Jeff should happen to build any like that.
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post #722 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

I see guys stating they will be powering this sub with 1500-3000 watts of power bridged from a pro amp. My question is are you guys running these on a 20 amp circuit or a separate 15 amp circuit from the rest of your equipment. Because I'm sure multiple amps plus multiple subs on one 15 amp circuit might spell trouble down the road.

Even though I also know most amps are not putting out anywhere near their peak power ratings most of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

DD, I've been wondering this too. I currently run 1000w sub, 300w x 5 amp, and the usual prepro, bluray player, projector, eq etc. all off a single 15amp circuit and I don't have any problems, but it would be nice to have a couple of dedicated 20amp circuits for peace of mind.

Ross

For several years I've been running an EP2500 (which is identical to the newer EP4000) on a 15amp circuit shared by seven other channels of amplification, plus a disc player, AVR, etc. and have yet to trip a circuit breaker.

Still your right, a dedicated 20amp circuit would be nice.
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post #723 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 03:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

For several years I've been running an EP2500 (which is identical to the newer EP4000) on a 15amp circuit shared by seven other channels of amplification, plus a disc player, AVR, etc. and have yet to trip a circuit breaker.

Still your right, a dedicated 20amp circuit would be nice.

I'm guilty as well. I'm running three Behringer EP4000's, One samson SX2800(700 watts per channel @8ohms, it's my favorite of the bunch), 55" LCD, Cable box, Blu Ray player, computer, printer, receiver(only used as prepro, not sure if that makes a difference), and the Dayton SA 1000 subwoofer amplifier on one 15 amp circuit.

It's popped a few times but usually only in bad weather. Makes me wonder though. Not sure if upgrading my surge protectors would save me down the road.
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post #724 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

DD, I've been wondering this too. I currently run 1000w sub, 300w x 5 amp, and the usual prepro, bluray player, projector, eq etc. all off a single 15amp circuit and I don't have any problems, but it would be nice to have a couple of dedicated 20amp circuits for peace of mind.

Ross

Unless you're running steady state test tones, you'll likely be fine. Music and HT have widely swinging dynamics, whereby the peak to average ratio, can be very significant. That, and the fact that breakers, by design, will allow very large values of current to pass prior to tripping. What this means is when one combines dynamic program material, with over-current protection that allows high currents for brief periods of time, you have plenty of short term circuit capacity for several thousand watts.

It's ok.

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post #725 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

I'm guilty as well. I'm running three Behringer EP4000's, One samson SX2800(700 watts per channel @8ohms, it's my favorite of the bunch), 55" LCD, Cable box, Blu Ray player, computer, printer, receiver(only used as prepro, not sure if that makes a difference), and the Dayyton SA 1000 subwoofer amplifier on one 15 amp circuit.

It's popped a few times but usually only in bad weather. Makes me wonder though. Not sure if upgrading my surge protectors would save me down the road.

Current capacity is one thing, voltage sag and starving an amp is another.
I'd be curious to see what your voltage sags to under big hits. 15 amp circuit usually means 14 gage wire. This is not bad if it's a short run, but less than optimal if it's a longer run to your outlets. With a digital volt meter the only way you'll see the voltage sag is if you run something like a test tone at high volume.

Sometimes this is a difference between functional and optimal.

If I were wiring up outlets for a home theater, I would run 12 gage (or heavier) wire, even if I only needed 15 amps.

My Rythmic 15 will dim the lights and sag the voltage down on a 15 amp/14 gage circuit (no other subs or amps running on that circuit).
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post #726 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 04:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

I think you meant the A7-900. The 450 is 22x22x22 while the 900 is 50x26x27.

Nope, the A7-450 is a large ported sub, you're thinking of the A7S-450, a smaller sealed unit. The A7-450 measures 37" high by 25" wide by 30" deep and weighs 300lbs. shipped. Check it out http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=656

The A7-900 is even bigger, but that's just crazy......!
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post #727 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

I'm guilty as well. I'm running three Behringer EP4000's, One samson SX2800(700 watts per channel @8ohms, it's my favorite of the bunch), 55" LCD, Cable box, Blu Ray player, computer, printer, receiver(only used as prepro, not sure if that makes a difference), and the Dayyton SA 1000 subwoofer amplifier on one 15 amp circuit.

It's popped a few times but usually only in bad weather. Makes me wonder though. Not sure if upgrading my surge protectors would save me down the road.

Get power conditioners. Surge protectors are junk and generally don't protect anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

Current capacity is one thing, voltage sag and starving an amp is another.
I'd be curious to see what your voltage sags to under big hits. 15 amp circuit usually means 14 gage wire. This is not bad if it's a short run, but less than optimal if it's a longer run to your outlets. With a digital volt meter the only way you'll see the voltage sag is if you run something like a test tone at high volume.

Sometimes this is a difference between functional and optimal.

If I were wiring up outlets for a home theater, I would run 12 gage (or heavier) wire, even if I only needed 15 amps.

My Rythmic 15 will dim the lights and sag the voltage down on a 15 amp/14 gage circuit (no other subs or amps running on that circuit).

I'm no electrician, but I'd suspect there's something wrong with your wiring if your subwoofer dims the lights but you think the circuit has no other loads on it. Small wattage (like the largest amp offered by Rhythmic's 600W) should barely be a blip on a 15a circuit's radar, especially considering HT and music is a smaller, dynamic load, not a constant one. That 600W is really almost never pushing more than 300W for more than a couple seconds, if that.

I have an APC H15 power conditioner handling my equipment which, granted, isn't much, but is more than what you're running, and I have no voltage dips or problems whatsoever on a 15a circuit. The LCD display on the H15 shows I have a pretty near constant voltage in and out, with only slight variation, even when everything is working hard.
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post #728 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 06:15 PM
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ED A7-450 vs the Captivator is an interesting comparison. The ED has the size advantage vs the Captivator's power advantage. The Captivator probably has a higher sensitivity driver and probably a bigger motor. Xmax? Who knows, probably the Captivator has the edge too. Overall, my guess is that the Captivator should have the edge in output, probably closer to ED A7-900 sub.
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post #729 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

Current capacity is one thing, voltage sag and starving an amp is another.
I'd be curious to see what your voltage sags to under big hits. 15 amp circuit usually means 14 gage wire. This is not bad if it's a short run, but less than optimal if it's a longer run to your outlets. With a digital volt meter the only way you'll see the voltage sag is if you run something like a test tone at high volume.

Sometimes this is a difference between functional and optimal.

If I were wiring up outlets for a home theater, I would run 12 gage (or heavier) wire, even if I only needed 15 amps.

My Rythmic 15 will dim the lights and sag the voltage down on a 15 amp/14 gage circuit (no other subs or amps running on that circuit).

I have a Mackie M1200 pro amp [1200w into 4ohms driving a sealed Tumult] 7 Parasound mono amps 5 of them see a 4 ohm loads a 56" DLP tv and the usual source devices, plus an SVS PB12/2. I've never seen any light fluctuations on the single 15amp line, I have CFL bulbs on all of my lights though. Having said that all my gear hooked up through 3 APC UPS units that provide automatic voltage regulations, and during loud passages on movies I see them regulating more often then not, so I assume there is voltage sags alright. I'm interested to get the Cap passive version and probably get one of those digital amps from Crest or behringer to drive it, since a large Class A/B might indeed would trip my breaker.

sent via Morse code...........

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post #730 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

I'm no electrician, but I'd suspect there's something wrong with your wiring if your subwoofer dims the lights but you think the circuit has no other loads on it. Small wattage (like the largest amp offered by Rhythmic's 600W) should barely be a blip on a 15a circuit's radar, especially considering HT and music is a smaller, dynamic load, not a constant one. That 600W is really almost never pushing more than 300W for more than a couple seconds, if that.

I have an APC H15 power conditioner handling my equipment which, granted, isn't much, but is more than what you're running, and I have no voltage dips or problems whatsoever on a 15a circuit. The LCD display on the H15 shows I have a pretty near constant voltage in and out, with only slight variation, even when everything is working hard.

I doubt it's the wiring, considering I've tried the same test in two houses (both of them fairly new with legit wiring). My EP2500 will do the same thing when pushed. When you hit a quick transient and the main power supply caps are drained, it grabs some power. Keep in mind most digital devices/readouts will not catch a quick dip in voltage, since they only refresh every second or two.

Even with 14 gage wiring, if you guys are in the basement near the box or otherwise on a short run of wire, it's different than a long run of wire. I'm near the opposite end of the house from the box, plus I"m pretty sure all the wiring runs up into the attic and then back down to the outlets.
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post #731 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Nope, the A7-450 is a large ported sub, you're thinking of the A7S-450, a smaller sealed unit. The A7-450 measures 37" high by 25" wide by 30" deep and weighs 300lbs. shipped. Check it out http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=656

The A7-900 is even bigger, but that's just crazy......!

Color me corrected and embarrassed.
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post #732 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

I see guys stating they will be powering this sub with 1500-3000 watts of power bridged from a pro amp. My question is are you guys running these on a 20 amp circuit or a separate 15 amp circuit from the rest of your equipment. Because I'm sure multiple amps plus multiple subs on one 15 amp circuit might spell trouble down the road.

Even though I also know most amps are not putting out anywhere near their peak power ratings most of the time.


I hear ya but I should be ok.

I have a 100 AMP sub panel dedicated to my basement. My Theater has 4 dedicated 20 AMP circuits.

2 -Equipment Closet
1- Front Stage
1- Rear of Theater

All Lights are on seperate Circuit.
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post #733 of 4766 Old 01-06-2011, 08:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 View Post

ED A7-450 vs the Captivator is an interesting comparison. The ED has the size advantage vs the Captivator's power advantage. The Captivator probably has a higher sensitivity driver and probably a bigger motor. Xmax? Who knows, probably the Captivator has the edge too. Overall, my guess is that the Captivator should have the edge in output, probably closer to ED A7-900 sub.

I'm not sure I agree with that, the unpowered Captivator output depends on the associated amp, and the EP4000 seems to be a favorite. It will put out 1750 watts into the 8 ohm Captivator in bridged mode, which isn't that much more than the 1300 watts on tap for the Ed sub. I'd really like to see the two tested against each other, it would make for an interesting shootout!

edit - feed the Captivator 4000 watts, however, and all bets are off!
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post #734 of 4766 Old 01-07-2011, 03:43 AM
 
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If I do pick up this sub I will definitely be purchasing some used Samson S-converters or smart box pros and up the signal going to my amps so they won't have to work so hard from here on out.
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post #735 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 08:54 AM
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The first powered Captivators shipped out yesterday. Attached is the response of the powered version. The amplifier has two different programs to select from, one for the 20hz tuned and the other for 15hz tuned (port plug).
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post #736 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 09:53 AM
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That looks great! I look forward to hearing reports from the field.
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post #737 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Is that a foam surround on the Cap woofer?

I'm curious about this. I'd like to know too.
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post #738 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 10:35 AM
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the dimming lights is not always the result of poor wiring, or improper wire gauge. a 15amp circuit is capable of 1800watts continuous and close to 5000watts instantaneous. a typical 100 or 200 amp service is more than enough. the issue is the service being delivered to your home such as the transformer. i live in the city where old services are slowly getting replaced as more old homes are being torn down with new homes all running 200 or 400 amp service panels. my lights dim like crazy in the summer when ac kicks in and when neighbours pool pumps start. i spent close to a year tracking this problem down, and only had it resolved when the electrical company came and upsized the street transformer.

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post #739 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 11:56 AM
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It's all about ample current delivery and voltage drop.

If the utility came out and changed the size of the pole mounted/pad mounted transformer, in was inadequate. Theoretically no different than a residential panel being over loaded, or a branch circuit being overloaded.

Voltage drop is what causes dimming lights, nothing else. Whether it's a motor start-up that causes dimming, or excessive LFE excursions from Black Hawk Down, if the current draw nears the capacity of the circuit, voltage drop will be the result.

The circuit can consist of the utility service for a group of homes, a residential service for one dwelling, or a 20a branch circuit in your HT.

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post #740 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 12:18 PM
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there are a couple easy ways to test if the culprit is before your main breaker box. One way is to check voltage at an outlet that you know is on another circuit while your heavy load is running. If that voltage doesn't move much, but there is sag where you see the lights dim, then it's the branch. If they both sag, it's probably prior to your main box.
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post #741 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 04:35 PM
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I've been working on getting this subjective Captivator review done, and I think I covered just about everything I wanted to demo. Just for a recap, I'm running JBL E-80 L/R and EC-35 center, with (soon to be replaced) Polk R15 surrounds in a 5.1 system powered by a Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K receiver, so nothing too fancy. The Captivator is corner loaded, has the foam plug in for 15hz tuning, and is powered by a Behringer EP4000 in bridged mono mode.

I have no EQ until I can get my REW pc online again. I was a little concerned about the lack of HP filter until I saw Jeff's recommendation to gpmbc to not worry about it when only tossing 1200ish watts at it. I ran MCACC, set all speakers to small, and am running the sub at -6. This is actually pretty close to right according to the rat shack SPL meter, with the sub being 1db hot. I generally never listen above -25 on the receiver, so I'm not terribly concerned about damaging anything, even in movie scenes that are excessive.

Before I get to my analysis, I wanted to say that there doesn't seem to be any problem with voltage sent out by the receiver. I know some were curious if there would be enough current for the EP4000 to pick up the signal, and it seems plenty. I have experienced no problems to speak of using a basic male RCA to male XLR cable.

As for music, I picked some famous tracks and some that I've seen other AVS forum members commenting about. Starting out with classical, my notes are as follows:

Camille Saint-Saens "Maestoso Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78"
- The organ depth had prodigious authority, just as intended. I've only heard better from real pipe organs, never another subwoofer.

The Japanese Drum Team "Bonten Wadaiko Drums"
- "Flowers" features an excellent workout, with tons of transients. All produced with no overhang, resonance, or boominess.
- "Samurai" has a strong, synth bassline that was kept completely separate from the cacophany of violent drumming. There was audible separation of the percussion impacts when slightly out of sync (per the recording). This is a good thing.

Respighi "Feste Romane"
- The tympanies throughout weren't as tight as I have come to expect. However, the organ in the final movement was solid.

Tchaikovsky "1812 Overture"
- My old band teacher in high school said that recordings of this could destroy subwoofers. Well, the cannon blasts in it did no such thing to the Captivator. It reminded me of the Master and Commander cannons - I'm pretty sure I could hear the distinct sound of each 18 pounder as it exited the cannon's barrel. Superb!

The Dave Brubeck Quartet "Time Out"
- "Blue Rondo A La Turk" displayed excellent high and mid bass guitar. The Captivator expertly defined the odd syncopations separating the alto sax, the bass guitar, and the drums. I couldn't stop thinking of the Pink Panther!
- "Three To Get Ready" showed me the Captivator was ready with authoritative drums and finger licking good double bass guitar. I could hear the vibration of nearly every string pluck. Insanely detailed.

The Chemical Brothers "Come With Us"
- "Denmark" showed me what the Captivator thought of a nonstop, transient bassline. Captivating.
- "Hoops" didn't sound like it was being played by a driveby ghetto blaster, but at some points was less than precise.
- "Come With Us" didn't give the sub a break, but it didn't sit on any of the notes.

Linkin Park "Reanimation"
- "Frgt/10" is rhythmically tense, but the Captivator remained honest to this hiphop track through the high, mid, and low bass it demonstrates.

Prodigy "Their Law: The Singles"
- "Girls" has a staccato high bass drum combined with the reverberating, garage-like bassline that seemed effortless.
- "Poison" made the neighbors across the street ask if they could join the party. Their text read, "Dood, you didn't invite us? WTF?"
- "Smack My Bitch Up" had no extra resonance, just ground pounding bass.
- "Out of Space" had the Captivator producing multiple frequencies at once, and it really shined in doing so! Great upper register dynamics synchronized with the reggae background theme digging deep.

Erykah Badu "Baduizm"
- This was the only demo where the Captivator sounded bloated. But, this recording is excessively hot in the lower octaves, so I'm willing to place blame elsewhere. Though I like the music, I've never heard this album sound "good." It always sounds overblown, like a potbellied tenor trying to sing a bass's lowest registers. Terrible. A better demo would be India Arie's "Acoustic Soul," but I no longer have that album.

I don't listen to much rock, aside from some folk stuff that really has no bass to speak of, so I can't offer much opinion there, other than that Sheryl Crow's "Riverwide" from "The Globe Session" album was full of punchy kick drum. Also, from an indie perspective, Maximum Balloon's self-titled album contains a track named "Absence of Light" that displayed great synth drum & bass with exquisite pitch definition.

As for home theater movie reproduction, I have a lot to say, but it can be summed up by one thing: the theater is in my basement, and during the pod emergence scene in "War of the Worlds," my bed on the 2nd floor felt like one of those vibrating mattresses you find in a no tell motel.

The "KungFu Panda" skidoosh scene was breathtaking. My pant legs felt like I was having the pinky trick applied!

I was a little less than impressed by the "LOTR - FOTR" opening scene where Sauron dies. I think perhaps the eD A2-300 had been reproducing this one quite well and my expectations were set too high. I dunno, I just always imagine this to be the ultimate in explosive bass and, well, it wasn't. Also, it may be that my discs only contain the DD 5.1 tracks, no DTS.

However, the "Master and Commander" DVD DTS track was shocking. I didn't understand why this is widely regarded as one of the best subwoofer demos out there until now. Yes, it was good with my previous sub, but it wasn't like this. There's just something about the reverb of those cannon blasts that now feels like it's tickling my entire central nervous system.

"Inception" exhibited zero problems for me. I didn't get any ugly noises out of the Captivator during the bathroom scene, nor when the van hits the water. Just excessive, pretty much overwhelming bass. I liked the movie, but the sound mix should have kept the dialog in line with the rumble stiltskin track.

"How to Train Your Dragon" was intense throughout, but, I dunno, maybe after reading all the commentary about it I was expecting more. The Captivator shook the walls without ever sounding boomy, but it just wasn't breathtaking like I expected. Oh, it was deep, and so often I couldn't hear the bass but could feel it. Perhaps I just needed to turn it up?

The cave scene in "Iron Man" was reasonably over the top, but I haven't yet watched "Iron Man 2." "WOTW" pod emergence was ridiculous as noted. "The Incredible Hulk" has its moments, especially like the sonic cannons, and was probably too much on a Thursday night at 1:30AM. Oh well! I haven't yet watched the infamous "Pulse" server room scene, but that may happen tonight.

I don't have "Pearl Harbor," but I have been watching "The Pacific," and through episode 5, it's been pretty good for the surround sound and LFE. I feel like the bass is mixed a little too hot in places, such as the intro. Perhaps that's just a failing of my system, particular to my room, the nuances of the Captivator, or a lack of EQ. As an aside, the Captivator's cabinet is not inert, and it vibrates a little, but there are no audible resonances or unusual sounds being produced, even with test tones at 10-19hz. Also of note is that I have experienced zero port chuffing.

All in all, I've been very happy. But, of course, what else would I say, right? The Captivator isn't perfect, but it has performed admirably so far. It plays deep with ease. It reaches significantly beyond my SPL needs, but it gives me room to grow, and I definitely wanted too much instead of too little. As they say, you can always dial it back. I think for the price I paid including the amp and shipping, I can't really imagine anything better for pure sound quality or volume - it does both with aplomb. JTR Speakers, well known in the pro audio world, has gotten it absolutely right for the HT crowd, too. I can't imagine a powered Captivator with EQ in the right room...wow! This actually has me _very_ curious to hear how the Orbit Shifter performs!
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post #742 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 04:58 PM
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"How to Train Your Dragon" was intense throughout, but, I dunno, maybe after reading all the commentary about it I was expecting more. The Captivator shook the walls without ever sounding boomy, but it just wasn't breathtaking like I expected. Oh, it was deep, and so often I couldn't hear the bass but could feel it. Perhaps I just needed to turn it up?

First, thanks for taking the time to type this up.

Second, on Dragon, it has quite a bit of information below 20hz. For most of us, that will only be felt and not heard anyway. When you're not feeling it with that movie, then there may be a problem. Then again, without any way to measure what you're hearing or an active eq going (as you said you don't have), it's quite difficult to make any conclusions about the Cap you're using. For all we know your room may have a massive peak at 60hz or something...

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #743 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 06:01 PM
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First, thanks for taking the time to type this up.

Second, on Dragon, it has quite a bit of information below 20hz. For most of us, that will only be felt and not heard anyway. When you're not feeling it with that movie, then there may be a problem. Then again, without any way to measure what you're hearing or an active eq going (as you said you don't have), it's quite difficult to make any conclusions about the Cap you're using. For all we know your room may have a massive peak at 60hz or something...

He did state that he rarely listens above -25 on his receiver. In comparison I listened at -5 when I put on the Incredible Hulk. Might be the reason for less FEEL especially in the lower registers. The Cap keeps gaining in sensitivity has you get higher up, 86db at 15hz and 98db at 50hz. I noticed a HUGE difference going from 450 to 1350 after rewiring the driver to a 2 ohm impedance. More power, maybe address a potential midbass peak or even just a little more volume can all help to make the low end more visceral.
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post #744 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 06:21 PM
 
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I've been working on getting this subjective Captivator review done, and I think I covered just about everything I wanted to demo. Just for a recap, I'm running JBL E-80 L/R and EC-35 center, with (soon to be replaced) Polk R15 surrounds in a 5.1 system powered by a Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K receiver, so nothing too fancy. The Captivator is corner loaded, has the foam plug in for 15hz tuning, and is powered by a Behringer EP4000 in bridged mono mode.

I have no EQ until I can get my REW pc online again. I was a little concerned about the lack of HP filter until I saw Jeff's recommendation to gpmbc to not worry about it when only tossing 1200ish watts at it. I ran MCACC, set all speakers to small, and am running the sub at -6. This is actually pretty close to right according to the rat shack SPL meter, with the sub being 1db hot. I generally never listen above -25 on the receiver, so I'm not terribly concerned about damaging anything, even in movie scenes that are excessive.

Before I get to my analysis, I wanted to say that there doesn't seem to be any problem with voltage sent out by the receiver. I know some were curious if there would be enough current for the EP4000 to pick up the signal, and it seems plenty. I have experienced no problems to speak of using a basic male RCA to male XLR cable.

As for music, I picked some famous tracks and some that I've seen other AVS forum members commenting about. Starting out with classical, my notes are as follows:

Camille Saint-Saens "Maestoso Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78"
- The organ depth had prodigious authority, just as intended. I've only heard better from real pipe organs, never another subwoofer.

The Japanese Drum Team "Bonten Wadaiko Drums"
- "Flowers" features an excellent workout, with tons of transients. All produced with no overhang, resonance, or boominess.
- "Samurai" has a strong, synth bassline that was kept completely separate from the cacophany of violent drumming. There was audible separation of the percussion impacts when slightly out of sync (per the recording). This is a good thing.

Respighi "Feste Romane"
- The tympanies throughout weren't as tight as I have come to expect. However, the organ in the final movement was solid.

Tchaikovsky "1812 Overture"
- My old band teacher in high school said that recordings of this could destroy subwoofers. Well, the cannon blasts in it did no such thing to the Captivator. It reminded me of the Master and Commander cannons - I'm pretty sure I could hear the distinct sound of each 18 pounder as it exited the cannon's barrel. Superb!

The Dave Brubeck Quartet "Time Out"
- "Blue Rondo A La Turk" displayed excellent high and mid bass guitar. The Captivator expertly defined the odd syncopations separating the alto sax, the bass guitar, and the drums. I couldn't stop thinking of the Pink Panther!
- "Three To Get Ready" showed me the Captivator was ready with authoritative drums and finger licking good double bass guitar. I could hear the vibration of nearly every string pluck. Insanely detailed.

The Chemical Brothers "Come With Us"
- "Denmark" showed me what the Captivator thought of a nonstop, transient bassline. Captivating.
- "Hoops" didn't sound like it was being played by a driveby ghetto blaster, but at some points was less than precise.
- "Come With Us" didn't give the sub a break, but it didn't sit on any of the notes.

Linkin Park "Reanimation"
- "Frgt/10" is rhythmically tense, but the Captivator remained honest to this hiphop track through the high, mid, and low bass it demonstrates.

Prodigy "Their Law: The Singles"
- "Girls" has a staccato high bass drum combined with the reverberating, garage-like bassline that seemed effortless.
- "Poison" made the neighbors across the street ask if they could join the party. Their text read, "Dood, you didn't invite us? WTF?"
- "Smack My Bitch Up" had no extra resonance, just ground pounding bass.
- "Out of Space" had the Captivator producing multiple frequencies at once, and it really shined in doing so! Great upper register dynamics synchronized with the reggae background theme digging deep.

Erykah Badu "Baduizm"
- This was the only demo where the Captivator sounded bloated. But, this recording is excessively hot in the lower octaves, so I'm willing to place blame elsewhere. Though I like the music, I've never heard this album sound "good." It always sounds overblown, like a potbellied tenor trying to sing a bass's lowest registers. Terrible. A better demo would be India Arie's "Acoustic Soul," but I no longer have that album.

I don't listen to much rock, aside from some folk stuff that really has no bass to speak of, so I can't offer much opinion there, other than that Sheryl Crow's "Riverwide" from "The Globe Session" album was full of punchy kick drum. Also, from an indie perspective, Maximum Balloon's self-titled album contains a track named "Absence of Light" that displayed great synth drum & bass with exquisite pitch definition.

As for home theater movie reproduction, I have a lot to say, but it can be summed up by one thing: the theater is in my basement, and during the pod emergence scene in "War of the Worlds," my bed on the 2nd floor felt like one of those vibrating mattresses you find in a no tell motel.

The "KungFu Panda" skidoosh scene was breathtaking. My pant legs felt like I was having the pinky trick applied!

I was a little less than impressed by the "LOTR - FOTR" opening scene where Sauron dies. I think perhaps the eD A2-300 had been reproducing this one quite well and my expectations were set too high. I dunno, I just always imagine this to be the ultimate in explosive bass and, well, it wasn't. Also, it may be that my discs only contain the DD 5.1 tracks, no DTS.

However, the "Master and Commander" DVD DTS track was shocking. I didn't understand why this is widely regarded as one of the best subwoofer demos out there until now. Yes, it was good with my previous sub, but it wasn't like this. There's just something about the reverb of those cannon blasts that now feels like it's tickling my entire central nervous system.

"Inception" exhibited zero problems for me. I didn't get any ugly noises out of the Captivator during the bathroom scene, nor when the van hits the water. Just excessive, pretty much overwhelming bass. I liked the movie, but the sound mix should have kept the dialog in line with the rumble stiltskin track.

"How to Train Your Dragon" was intense throughout, but, I dunno, maybe after reading all the commentary about it I was expecting more. The Captivator shook the walls without ever sounding boomy, but it just wasn't breathtaking like I expected. Oh, it was deep, and so often I couldn't hear the bass but could feel it. Perhaps I just needed to turn it up?

The cave scene in "Iron Man" was reasonably over the top, but I haven't yet watched "Iron Man 2." "WOTW" pod emergence was ridiculous as noted. "The Incredible Hulk" has its moments, especially like the sonic cannons, and was probably too much on a Thursday night at 1:30AM. Oh well! I haven't yet watched the infamous "Pulse" server room scene, but that may happen tonight.

I don't have "Pearl Harbor," but I have been watching "The Pacific," and through episode 5, it's been pretty good for the surround sound and LFE. I feel like the bass is mixed a little too hot in places, such as the intro. Perhaps that's just a failing of my system, particular to my room, the nuances of the Captivator, or a lack of EQ. As an aside, the Captivator's cabinet is not inert, and it vibrates a little, but there are no audible resonances or unusual sounds being produced, even with test tones at 10-19hz. Also of note is that I have experienced zero port chuffing.

All in all, I've been very happy. But, of course, what else would I say, right? The Captivator isn't perfect, but it has performed admirably so far. It plays deep with ease. It reaches significantly beyond my SPL needs, but it gives me room to grow, and I definitely wanted too much instead of too little. As they say, you can always dial it back. I think for the price I paid including the amp and shipping, I can't really imagine anything better for pure sound quality or volume - it does both with aplomb. JTR Speakers, well known in the pro audio world, has gotten it absolutely right for the HT crowd, too. I can't imagine a powered Captivator with EQ in the right room...wow! This actually has me _very_ curious to hear how the Orbit Shifter performs!

This appears to be the most honest and indepth review I've seen for the 2011 Captivator. It seems that it has a few minor setbacks in the music realm but is all in all a good performer for music and a bottomless pit of spl for HT. Thank you very much for honest commentary on your new purchase.
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post #745 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

This appears to be the most honest and indepth review I've seen for the 2011 Captivator. It seems that it has a few minor setbacks in the music realm but is all in all a good performer for music and a bottomless pit of spl for HT. Thank you very much for honest commentary on your new purchase.

I agree it's honest, but without knowing whether or not he has big peaks or nulls in his room's response, conclusions simply can't be drawn based solely on listening. That goes for products from JTR, Seaton, SVS, Epik, etc.

I'm not a graph Nazi, but I do think no one really knows what they have in a sub unless they know for sure they're not listening to a 20db swing between 20, 40, and 60hz.

Stephen.

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post #746 of 4766 Old 01-08-2011, 08:04 PM
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First, thanks for taking the time to type this up.

Second, on Dragon, it has quite a bit of information below 20hz. For most of us, that will only be felt and not heard anyway. When you're not feeling it with that movie, then there may be a problem. Then again, without any way to measure what you're hearing or an active eq going (as you said you don't have), it's quite difficult to make any conclusions about the Cap you're using. For all we know your room may have a massive peak at 60hz or something...

Oh, I definitely get it. I was actually making a sorta wry joke about HTTYD. I should have put a smiley face in, huh? I did check my room with REW a couple of years ago when I first moved in here and got the A2-300. Nothing has really changed since then besides the new sub and TV, so I presume the big 47hz null at the LP is still there. I wish I had the graphs from back then. Maybe this time I'll upgrade to a better mic.

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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

He did state that he rarely listens above -25 on his receiver. In comparison I listened at -5 when I put on the Incredible Hulk. Might be the reason for less FEEL especially in the lower registers. The Cap keeps gaining in sensitivity has you get higher up, 86db at 15hz and 98db at 50hz. I noticed a HUGE difference going from 450 to 1350 after rewiring the driver to a 2 ohm impedance. More power, maybe address a potential midbass peak or even just a little more volume can all help to make the low end more visceral.

Originally I had the EP4000 wired for just a single channel, and that was pretty much AOK, but I wanted to see what bridging would do. Well, as it turns out, it does quite a bit. As I understand it, dropping -6 on the sub channel might actually remove some of the dynamics from the signal? I've heard that bandied about a bit and wasn't sure. As for overall volume from reference, well, -25 is already too loud in some sequences. Again, though, I am pretty sure I've heard some folks say that this is less than optimal, that you lose dynamics by having the volume so far from reference. Your thoughts?

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I agree it's honest, but without knowing whether or not he has big peaks or nulls in his room's response, conclusions simply can't be drawn based solely on listening. That goes for products from JTR, Seaton, SVS, Epik, etc.

I'm not a graph Nazi, but I do think no one really knows what they have in a sub unless they know for sure they're not listening to a 20db swing between 20, 40, and 60hz.

I couldn't agree more, and want to get things rolling on that front, but won't be able to very soon. Break is almost over, sadly.
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post #747 of 4766 Old 01-09-2011, 06:58 AM
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Oh, I almost forgot. I watched two other bass demo movies that are pretty well known. "Finding Nemo" was great, and the depth charges scene was...explosive! But, the infamous Darla Finger Tapping scene was, as intended, way, way beyond what was necessary. I loved it!

I also had some friends over to watch "Cloverfield." None of them had ever seen it, and I'd watched it with an ex once when it came out, but not since. Well, we sat down to watch the whole thing and were bored to tears through the first 20 minutes of the party dialog, etc. However, when the first "earthquake" happened, my buddies and I were just speechless. The whole rest of the movie I'd be hard pressed to tell you who had the bigger sh*t eating grin at what the Captivator was doing. For the first time ever, a giant monster on my 60" screen actually SOUNDED and FELT like a GIANT MONSTER! You just can't fake that; it's such an enormously obvious difference to go from almost, sorta, maybe producing that visceral impact to actually doing it. "Cloverfield" has gotta be my favorite bass demo movie out of everything I've watched because it's not a terrible movie, and the LFE is just right for the visual content.

Lastly, I am pretty scientific minded, so take all of this qualitative analysis with a grain of salt. It's just my opinion without any graphs to back up my claims. It's nice to hear the subjective, but this is the Audio/Video Science Forum. Luckily, Jeff has been pretty solid about giving out info on his products and hasn't made any unrealistic claims. I hope to be able to provide some measurements and graphs soon, too.
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post #748 of 4766 Old 01-09-2011, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post




Originally I had the EP4000 wired for just a single channel, and that was pretty much AOK, but I wanted to see what bridging would do. Well, as it turns out, it does quite a bit. As I understand it, dropping -6 on the sub channel might actually remove some of the dynamics from the signal?

No you won't The dynamics are in the recorded content, manipulating the gain or the line level won't change that, it might affect the noise floor or the available headroom or create clipping, in some extreme cases. However the perceived dynamics can be affected by calibration or listening levels, for instance if the overall level is too low, the soft passages can "disappear" into the typical room noise floor, or too high listening level could flatten dynamics simply because the system run out power, but it's not the "signal" per se but the reproduction of it.

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post #749 of 4766 Old 01-10-2011, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Quaxtros View Post

I'm curious about this. I'd like to know too.

In answer to floridapoolboy's original question about the surround material on the Captivator's 18" sub, it does appear to be some form of treated foam. Perhaps Jeff can contribute more if this is incorrect.

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No you won't The dynamics are in the recorded content, manipulating the gain or the line level won't change that, it might affect the noise floor or the available headroom or create clipping, in some extreme cases. However the perceived dynamics can be affected by calibration or listening levels, for instance if the overall level is too low, the soft passages can "disappear" into the typical room noise floor, or too high listening level could flatten dynamics simply because the system run out power, but it's not the "signal" per se but the reproduction of it.

Thanks for the input. I don't like misinformation, but, well, that was just what I had read from some folks here. I'm relieved to hear that this info was wrong. What you said makes sense, logically. I suppose if what you said was untrue, it would mean that higher volume levels would result in the addition of some type of extra performance or dynamics added to the content, such as a "loudness" setting, which would essentially not be in the source material, but at the receiver/amp/pre/pro level?
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post #750 of 4766 Old 01-10-2011, 06:28 PM
 
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Hmm, more foam, I just read that the new Hsu subs are using this as well. Rubber has been viewed as the material of choice for awhile now, is there a reason why manufacturers are again using foam? Has the material advanced to where it lasts as long as rubber? Curious.........!
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