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post #91 of 4795 Old 12-05-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

How much more powerful is the Catpivator compared to the Captivator ?

Regards,

Its custom made, just for you, twice the price



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Get ready for Darth-vator

That's 4 Captivators stacked or lying head to head across the front or back, each with 1000w amp.

Coming soon, to a Theater near you.


Thats Death-Vator
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post #92 of 4795 Old 12-05-2009, 06:50 PM
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WTF???? Weirdos!
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post #93 of 4795 Old 12-05-2009, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

I got a cap and Jeff has been over a couple times, we're currently trying work on some issues....will update with a full amateur review when everything is working right.

Well I swapped out the passive radiator last night and all is good now. This thing is beasting anything I throw at it. Actually just finished cleaning up a mess in my laundry room. Thanks to the cap, some things on a shelf took a spill causing the entire shelf to become unbalanced and the whole thing just crashed to the floor Will write a better review when I have time but to all those who are on the fence do not hesitate to jump on anything Jeff creates.
Stopped by the shop yesterday and the quintuple and new veneered triple 8's are flat out gorgeous, I know some of you have purchased them recently and all I can say is lucky you!


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post #94 of 4795 Old 12-05-2009, 11:04 PM
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nice setup, what did you use to mount the center speaker?
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post #95 of 4795 Old 12-06-2009, 07:19 AM
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Nice setup Pinktri,
I like the acoustic treatments under the L & R speakers
Looks like the Captivator got a center divider in it's port mouth.
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post #96 of 4795 Old 12-06-2009, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

nice setup, what did you use to mount the center speaker?

Thanks. The mount is made by sanus designed for CRT tv's. I cut the arm a little so it did not hang too far out. The speaker is actually strapped in and is super secure. I believe it's rated for 120lbs with 4 lag bolts straight in the stud.

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post #97 of 4795 Old 12-06-2009, 11:17 AM
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how would the output on this unit using a 500watt amp compare to a Submerssive?
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post #98 of 4795 Old 12-06-2009, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dlfromcanada View Post

how would the output on this unit using a 500watt amp compare to a Submerssive?

maybe RMK can answer that since he's heard both. I've run the Cap on a single channel (currently bridged) around 600watts and it sounded fine but definitely lost some headroom

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post #99 of 4795 Old 12-06-2009, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

maybe RMK can answer that since he's heard both. I've run the Cap on a single channel (currently bridged) around 600watts and it sounded fine but definitely lost some headroom

Nice setup pinktri, are those Snuggy-Wows in your AV cabinet?

I am told (by someone who should know) that they are very close from their shared bottom (15Hz or so) up to their upper ranges. The Captivator needs to be crossed at 80Hz. The Submersive will play up to 200Hz + so will work better with less capable mains. I was told (again by someone who should know) that the Captivator’s bandpass design (like the Terraform) will play a little cleaner within its FR.

Putting it in perspective, I considered both and am happy with my choice.

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post #100 of 4795 Old 12-06-2009, 05:27 PM
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To be more familiar with this design, what exactly is a band pass sub (captivator)

is that like a folded horn?
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post #101 of 4795 Old 12-07-2009, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

To be more familiar with this design, what exactly is a band pass sub (captivator)

is that like a folded horn?

No, the JTR Growler sub is a folded horn design. Sorry, but you should use the Google to research this. Jeff and Mark Seaton collaborated on this design and it is a variation on the bandpass theme. I doubt they will (or should) go into great detail about the specifics. The Captivator includes a 12 driver in an internal chamber, an 18 passive radiator, a slot vent and it sounds fantastic within its 15-85hz range.

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post #102 of 4795 Old 12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

To be more familiar with this design, what exactly is a band pass sub (captivator)

is that like a folded horn?

Bandpass designs have a chamber in front and behind the driver.
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post #103 of 4795 Old 12-09-2009, 07:41 PM
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Ok, so I used "the google" to find more info on this design. It seems there are different types of "orders" 4th and 6th?

Most of the info. was found in car audio forums not pertaining to home audio.
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post #104 of 4795 Old 12-10-2009, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Ok, so I used "the google" to find more info on this design. It seems there are different types of "orders" 4th and 6th?

Most of the info. was found in car audio forums not pertaining to home audio.

I researched (via the Google) the bandpass design before ordering the Captivators and will take a shot at a VERY high level explanation. You are correct that there is little data out there and the data that exists is either DIY or related to Car Audio.

It appears Jeff (with Marks assistance) is using a variation of the 6th order bandpass with a sealed chamber that has the driver firing into an 18” PR and a slot ported chamber for the back wave. The idea is that this bandpass design is very efficient within its intended frequency range (15-85Hz) and as with any sub, driver selection, box size and (if applicable) port tuning being the all important variables. Marks Terraform and Terraform XL subs are based upon a similar design concept but very different in design details and, they are powered.

I have not heard a better sounding sub than the Captivators and find they mate perfectly with the Triple 12HT’s. I hope Jeff (or Mark) will correct any misstatements.

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post #105 of 4795 Old 12-10-2009, 09:47 AM
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Yeah, we both went to the same sites, the same way you understand this designs is exactly how I pictured it.

I know Mark was involved in this design along with Jeff (audio magicians) and that Marks offerings are different in some aspects. His bandpass subs are also not well know. What I mean by this is not many people know about them. Iam sure they sound ridiculous as well.

Just curious why there is so little info on this design and why (to my knowledge) no else in high end audio is using this design. Only Mark and Jeff.

Everything that I read pointed to the fact that this design does not lend it self to a good transition to high fi audio in the home. Only PA systems, with the ultimate goal of high spl levels with little concern for sound quality.

So I read negative comments about such a design and think this may not be a good sub, but then you read and hear comments about Marks and Jeff design and how it takes your breath away with it performance and sound quality.

Iam not by any means knocking this design, I trust Jeff and Mark as well as the few owners of these subs when the say they are fantastic.

Just wondering what magic pixie dust they are sprinkling on top of these subs that makes them one of the best options for home theater use.
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post #106 of 4795 Old 12-10-2009, 10:20 AM
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I think no else does it because of costs (design) and size of the sub.

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post #107 of 4795 Old 12-10-2009, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

I think no else does it because of costs (design) and size of the sub.

Yes, they are like Danley Tapped Horns in that regard. What I did read is that if you design and build to a certain frequency range these bandpass subs can produce very clean powerful bass. My experience with them validates that point.

Jeff chose a smaller enclosure and a more limited FR (15-85Hz). Mark chose a bigger box with its port tuned lower, powered and capable of more range on the upper end. I suppose it was a risk to go with an unproven design like the Captivator but knowing Jeff and Mark a little bit, plus having heard their other products made me confident that I would be happy with the Captivators and I am...

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post #108 of 4795 Old 12-10-2009, 11:43 AM
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pinktri adn RMK!,

Valid points, its is a difficult design and expensive. Like most sub designs there are many factors to get right and most don't. Maybe why there are negative comments by those that have tried (DIY) and did not get it right. This would lead to lowered expectations and beliefs about the abilities of this design in other venues like home theater.

Also, ported and sealed designs have been the main stay of subwoofage for so long, many feel reluctant on taking RMK's leap of faith into other designs that may offer greater performance and sound.

I was just thinking of these as I wrote: The flavor of the month regarding subs is folded and tapped horns. They offer efficiency and dynamics needed for the HT environment. Which makes sense. Jeff as gone a different route, he choose a folded horn for his growler which is intended for PA crowds and choose a bandpass design for his home theater customers. To contrasting designs in other wise contrasting environment.

I believe most (average individual if made to chose) would have choosen the folded design for HT and bandpass for PA.

The captivator needs a bigger audience, a say subshoot out!!!
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post #109 of 4795 Old 12-12-2009, 07:40 PM
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Jeff, how does a bandpass design differ from a ported design sound quality wise? Is it cleaner sounding? Just wondering about the benefits. Thanks.
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post #110 of 4795 Old 12-12-2009, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

Jeff, how does a bandpass design differ from a ported design sound quality wise? Is it cleaner sounding? Just wondering about the benefits. Thanks.

Hi Tom Bley,

I have one 6th order bandpass subwoofer and you are right it sounding very clean and precise, usually 6th bandpass design has very high sensitivity my sub has 103 dB 1w/1m so it is quite loud it is in the left back corner near two back doors on that video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg0VF4BMdfk

Regards!
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post #111 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

Nice setup Pinktri,
I like the acoustic treatments under the L & R speakers
Looks like the Captivator got a center divider in it's port mouth.

That was a good catch Tom. I asked Jeff about this (thinking I had last years model) and in a sense, I do. Jeff has moved over to MDF to allow for the wood finishes that are so popular. This required a re-design of the box and additional bracing that wasn't necessary with good old 13 ply BB he was using. This also accounts for the size increase in the Triple 8's.

Personally, I'd rather have the BB with Line-X but I guess I'm in the minority on this one.

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post #112 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

That was a good catch Tom. I asked Jeff about this (thinking I had last years model) and in a sense, I do. Jeff has moved over to MDF to allow for the wood finishes that are so popular. This required a re-design of the box and additional bracing that wasn't necessary with good old 13 ply BB he was using. This also accounts for the size increase in the Triple 8's.

Personally, I'd rather have the BB with Line-X but I guess I'm in the minority on this one.

Wow, thanks for the info. I also like my T-8's with the Line-X and Baltic Birch ply. The other thing I noticed on Pinkti's is it doesn't have the nice round over edges that yours does. I'm wondering how just your two Cap's with an action movie sound or have you just used the two for music?

Tom
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post #113 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 11:45 AM
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RMK!

Your captivators also have rounded edges, pinktri's caps. are square.

I read and article a few months back regarding wood properties and its (wood) ability to properly reproduce sound.

I can't remember exactly what the recomendation was but BB and MDF where involved in the study.

One reflects sound and the other absorbs sound.

I wonder if that affects the sound in Jeff's designs, if any?
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post #114 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

Wow, thanks for the info. I also like my T-8's with the Line-X and Baltic Birch ply. The other thing I noticed on Pinkti's is it doesn't have the nice round over edges that yours does. I'm wondering how just your two Cap's with an action movie sound or have you just used the two for music?

Tom

Yes, the radius edges look better but a beeach to veneer.

I have run the Caps alone and they are great but I have to be careful as I have no highpass filer on them. When I'm running them with the Danley's level matched with the other speakers they are usually just coasting so no problem but I have heard them hit bottom on some crazy LFE content.

I have a 14hz HP via my SMS-1 for the TH-SPUD's but the Caps are not connected to the SMS-1 so I need a separate HP for the Caps. Neither my processor (Integra DHC-80.1) nor my amps have HP filter capability so I'm open to ideas.

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post #115 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Yes, the radius edges look better but a beeach to veneer.

I have run the Caps alone and they are great but I have to be careful as I have no highpass filer on them. When I'm running them with the Danley's level matched with the other speakers they are usually just coasting so no problem but I have heard them hit bottom on some crazy LFE content.

I have a 14hz HP via my SMS-1 for the TH-SPUD's but the Caps are not connected to the SMS-1 so I need a separate HP for the Caps. Neither my processor (Integra DHC-80.1) nor my amps have HP filter capability so I'm open to ideas.

Gotcha. thanks for the info. I wonder if there is something simple and in- expensive that could provide adjustable HP filtering. I'm suprised you heard it bottom especially w/ the Danleys but, I guess that's still is a possibility because of no HP filter on them.
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post #116 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 12:34 PM
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I wonder if you hit bottom or reached the PR's limit.

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post #117 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 12:40 PM
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Thomas, is the E.D. box on top of your QSC providing a HP filter for your Cap?
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post #118 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Gotcha. thanks for the info. I wonder if there is something simple and in- expensive that could provide adjustable HP filtering. I'm suprised you heard it bottom especially w/ the Danleys but, I guess that's still is a possibility because of no HP filter on them.

After my last Audyssey calibration the ELF's (<20Hz) are really putting out and I think that is the issue.

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I wonder if you hit bottom or reached the PR's limit.

Dunno

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Thomas, is the E.D. box on top of your QSC providing a HP filter for your Cap?

I was wondering the same thing.

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post #119 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I just looked at the ED unit and for $100 it looks like it will do the job. Wish it had XLR or Speakon connects.

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post #120 of 4795 Old 12-14-2009, 01:03 PM
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For the money, it looks like a good solution.
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