I've had it up to here with AV123 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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For those of you reading the other thread who have posted both positive and negative comments this will be my last post on this topic.

My patience is at an end. Nothing is worth this frustration. IMO the only thing worse than these subs is the customer service. New driver, new amp. broken grill, cracked veneer, loose and missing screws, horrible hum. Don't like it? Fine, pay to send it back, pay for us to ship you a new one. And you paid full retail for A stock that we are now selling for $200 less than you bought yours for? Too bad, so sorry.

So Mark apologizes and tells me, personally, that he wants to send me a new sub so I can see what the quality of AV123 really is. No conditions. He'll just send me a sub. Sounds good and I post that.

Then he "seems" to forget his personal promise and sends me emails about delays in shipping me my new amp. And it's not a miscommunication around words. He is mixed up. So I post my thoughts and he calls and tells me that it was poor communication between his employees and him. OK. Fine. Then he changes the rules and tells me he will still ship me a sub but hey, can I send the old one back? (now he adds conditions) He will put a return shipping label in with the new one and I can send the old one back at my convienience. Not the orginal deal but OK. That works for me.

Then he calls me irrate that I posted negative stuff about him and while he is angry, will send the sub.

Now I get an email from one of his employees that they are sending UPS to my home to pick up the old one and only when they get the old one back will they ship me a new one. WTF!! (more new added conditions) Now his promise is changed again. Funny thing is that the old sub isn't even at the address where they are sending the UPS guy. They didn't even bother checking with me first. It's in another state! (I have homes in both GA and NC) And Mark knew that because I told him personally that was the case. He even asked me what state to send the new one to. Yeah, the new one that I don't have, that got changed to an amp, then was blamed on his employees, then changed to me sending one back then changed to me sending mine back first, then UPS gets sent to the wrong address.

To hell with this. I'll spray the damn thing black, use it till it breaks, buy one from a reputable company and not look back. I'd never buy anything from these guys again. I've never seen a business run like this. It seems shady and fly by night to me.

When a man makes a personal promise to me, I expect it to be honored. When a man breaks a personal promise to me, he has no honor.

And that's my opinion, my experience, and all of you can post away but I'm not posting again. I'm simply done with it and done with them. The only thing more frustrating than trying to make their products work is trying to work with Mark.

And yes, this IS a rant.
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post #2 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 04:10 PM
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Wow, sorry you had such a bad run with them. Sadly, it appears you are not alone. Maybe they will make it right after reading this post.

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post #3 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by csnow View Post

Wow, sorry you had such a bad run with them. Sadly, it appears you are not alone. Maybe they will make it right after reading this post.




uh...right
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post #4 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 04:19 PM
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Thank you, I had previously posted that you saved me from making a horrible gamble in buying dual MFW-15's. I opted for Epik and am very happy with that decision. I would have HATED to have had a single problem, let alone many that would not be rectified. It is because of your comments, and from others similar, I have avoided all of this. Thank you again.
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post #5 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 04:39 PM
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I, and others, sympathize with your situation. Sometimes you just have to bear down and work through these things. Not that you haven't already done enough, but why punish yourself even more. I would suggest that you tell AV123 that you expect to receive the new sub before you return the defective one, at their cost. To make them feel protected, tell them they can charge you for the new sub if they don't receive UPS confirmation the call ticket was executed after 30 days of receipt of the new sub. This way, you get a new sub and AV123 is protected from you behaving as irresponsibly as they have.

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post #6 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 04:50 PM
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Personally who ever does business with this company gets what they deserve. It has been well known that this company handles customers like they are a POS. also they are dishonest box up and sell crap and just plain ol suck. while some of the products they sell are good. Its just not worth keeping them in business.

stop buying and let them die a slow death.


(Lhasa-lover I do wish you good luck)

and for those that are going to defend this POS company, save it!!!
you have your own thread.!

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post #7 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

I, and others, sympathize with your situation. Sometimes you just have to bear down and work through these things. Not that you haven't already done enough, but why punish yourself even more. I would suggest that you tell AV123 that you expect to receive the new sub before you return the defective one, at their cost. To make them feel protected, tell them they can charge you for the new sub if they don't receive UPS confirmation the call ticket was executed after 30 days of receipt of the new sub. This way, you get a new sub and AV123 is protected from you behaving as irresponsibly as they have.

Randy, while I understand the trying to make AV123 feel protected, with all that has gone on with the company in regards to presales, unshipped product, undistributed raffle/charity money, etc., do you think it is actually wise to pre-authorize a charge to a credit card? That is giving them a shot at being even more irresponsible/dishonest.

The customer currently has an un-resolved issue. How should he be protected?

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post #8 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:11 PM
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Lhasa, in the MFW-15 Holiday Deals? thread over at 123, MLS stated on 11/21/09 that they're out of amps at the moment but are expecting more shortly. One could interpret that to mean that they can't fulfill any sub orders at the present time and that would include you. Yet, the website order page indicates that they have subs in stock to ship presumably in A-stock too. Hence, at this time, there's nothing really preventing you from receiving a replacement sub given that the only thing that hasn't happened to yours is that the box has fallen apart.
The position that they won't send you one until you first send yours back implies they don't really quite trust you. While that might be understandable when dealing with say a replacement hard drive under warranty, in this case the party that needs to establish that they are trustworthy is located in Colorado.
If MLS is angry at your posting the contents of the emails (there wasn't a request to keep this off the public record), several reasons come to mind. Apart from the writings sounding like an individual in the throes of dimentia, I would think that you're not the only person out there who has had just about anything that can go wrong with a sub go wrong. Hence, I'd think there's a bit of trepidation on MLS's part that if he went to this length with you, what length will he be expected to go with other individuals who've seen their A's turn into B's or worse due to a multiplicity of problems.

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post #9 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Randy, while I understand the trying to make AV123 feel protected, with all that has gone on with the company in regards to presales, unshipped product, undistributed raffle/charity money, etc., do you think it is actually wise to pre-authorize a charge to a credit card? That is giving them a shot at being even more irresponsible/dishonest.

The customer currently has an un-resolved issue. How should he be protected?

I didn't think about them already having his CC info. You can always stop a CC payment.

You aren't inferring they would behave unethically on top of dishonorably, are you?

Randy
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post #10 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:18 PM
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You forgot to say humbly...

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post #11 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:36 PM
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Geez. I really hope I get my base for my X-Omni's.

Sorry Mark, after reading this and everything else (across multiple forums with multiple sources) I don't think I can buy anything from AV123.
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post #12 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

I didn't think about them already having his CC info. You can always stop a CC payment.

You aren't inferring they would behave unethically on top of dishonorably, are you?

Whether they would or not, I wouldn't give them the chance....

and at this point, the customer needs to have the guarantee of receiving a working/undamaged product that he has already paid for, and should not put at any kind of additional risk.

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post #13 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:42 PM
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What happened to this company? They were THE place to go for deals and personal service. I know the forum shut down for a long time and that Mark was (sick?). So what happened, they they run out of capital?
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post #14 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:50 PM
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i had given thought to the mfw but i believe if you buy a sub then the sub should operate fine without any problems when you receive it. you shouldn't have to call the company. i bought a different sub and never called the company for some issue or another. been fine. the mfw on the other hand has been thru the meatgrinder. yet some people still cling to the hope that their lottery ticket with them will provide an awesome shot of being a lucky owner of a sub that will run fine. it's easy to know why they have to bend over backwards to help their customers. they probably expect a phone or two or three. should've have to be like that. i'm sure they get frustrated having to deal with the crap they get but if the quality is put into the making of the subs then they should have happier customers.

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post #15 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 06:51 PM
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It's pretty easily to let the speculation run wild - I have seen a LOT of satisfied customers and real improvements from them lately.

This particular case -I have a feeling we don't know the truth from AV123's side. I'm not saying Lhasa is incorrect but - with MLS being ill lately I don't find it such a stretch some of these things might get past him. It's not an excuse - simply stating I see no evidence the business is in trouble - rather a pretty horrible story that is likely isolated.

Verum postulo res.
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post #16 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveUpton View Post

It's pretty easily to let the speculation run wild - I have seen a LOT of satisfied customers and real improvements from them lately.

This particular case -I have a feeling we don't know the truth from AV123's side. I'm not saying Lhasa is incorrect but - with MLS being ill lately I don't find it such a stretch some of these things might get past him. It's not an excuse - simply stating I see no evidence the business is in trouble - rather a pretty horrible story that is likely isolated.


isolated, lol... dude you need to get out more. this crap has been going on for at least a year.!

threads get started then disappear........
just watch

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post #17 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveUpton View Post

It's pretty easily to let the speculation run wild - I have seen a LOT of satisfied customers and real improvements from them lately.

This particular case -I have a feeling we don't know the truth from AV123's side. I'm not saying Lhasa is incorrect but - with MLS being ill lately I don't find it such a stretch some of these things might get past him. It's not an excuse - simply stating I see no evidence the business is in trouble - rather a pretty horrible story that is likely isolated.

I don't see much speculation in Lhasa-lover post. All I see is very frustrated customer and a company that isn't living up to it's end of the deal.....again. It may come across callus but Mark's health has been used many times as an excuse for poor customer service and missed deadlines. I understand they aren't a huge operation but I do know that it's not a one man shop either.

This is just one of many reasons why I will not recommend this company anymore.
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post #18 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 07:18 PM
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I was referring specifically to comments about the business failing, which I do not believe to be true.

I am not disagreeing with Lhasa - or the many posts complaining. I'm simply stating those don't equate to a failing business. I have never taken a side in this before - I own some AV123 product (purchased before all the drama) but nothing recent. I have no horse in this race - simply commenting.

Verum postulo res.
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post #19 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 07:19 PM
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I just bought a MFW-15 from them a couple of weeks ago. I called on a Monday late and was told that it was ready to go out with Tuesdays shipping and i asked to get it by the following Friday. The UPS truck had already left the plant with Mondays shipment of subs but customer service called the UPS truck back so that I could get it on Friday. Got it on Friday and set it up and it has been running with no issues since. My gear runs about 14 hours a day for music and TV with Movies on the weekend. I retired, so I have time to play.

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post #20 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 07:24 PM
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In light of fairness, I have a friend who just received eight boxes of speakers from AV123 without issue and is happy as a clam.

To the OP, I'm very sorry about your ordeal. I will say that in my years of forum reading it seems that luck has a lot to do with this company.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #21 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 07:38 PM
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Yes, we don't know the truth from AV123's side. Dave, I've spoken with former employees (note, it's plural) who've stated that there were numerous times when pre-business day meetings would be held so that everyone associated with AV123 that had any possibility of dealing with the public would be handed the 'official story'. The official story was what would be told to anyone contacting AV123 as to what was up with MLS. It might've been that he was ill, that he was going for tests, that he was in the hospital, that he was going here or there for business, that he was picking up people from China or India at the airport, that he was having business meetings, etc. Occasionly the story was true. But they were stories designed to do such things as engender sympathy, understanding why things weren't taken care of, that he was busier than he really was, or he just didn't want to deal with sundry issues. So, when I hear MLS is sick, you know what I want? I want a doctor's note!
As to not seeing that the business is in trouble? There are untold number of indicators. There's no advertising. Quality is down even with the new amps which are known to hum with nothing but a power cord attached. There's the issue with the sundry raffles totalling around a quarter of a million dollars where most of the monies are unaccounted for. Hell, there's a guy who won one of the illegally conducted raffles and never got his MFW-15 prize! There are former employees or contract workers, whatever you want to call them, that haven't been paid and we're talking 5 figures. And Dave, it only gets worse. Maybe one day you and I should talk privately and you won't need a cup of Starbucks French Roast to pop your eyes open.

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post #22 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 07:47 PM
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I too had a extremely unpleasent situation with mls.. i wanted to purchase a b-stock mfw and i live locally so i opted for local pick up. he let me know that he he would be able to bring the sub to his home locally and i could pick it up there. we set a date and it all went south from there... the first night i was suppose to pick it up he let me know the volume control unit didn't seem to be working properly. He said he would fix it and call me by 9 the next morning. at eleven the next morning(i hadn't heard from hime so i called) he said he didn't have any of the volume control units at his home and he would have the sub ready for pick up the next evening. i waited and recieved directions to his house and headed that way. i got to his home and spoke with his wife. apparantly he had family over and didn't have the sub ready. he came out and spoke to me showed me that the sub wasn't together. he infact didn't ever have a sub for me. he had a box that was being constructed, the amp and sub both in original packaging. i was extremely frustrated and let him know. he promised the sub would be ready the next day and he would personally deliver it to my home the next day. again promised a call by 9 am. i told him that if i didn't hear from him by then to not waste any more of my time or his. I haven't spoken to him since!
i ended up purchasing a outlaw sub during their sale and couldn't be happier.
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post #23 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 08:20 PM
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When all is said and done, AV123 will make a great case study of a small business that tried to expand too far, too fast. Mark is a great one-on-one salesman with what I believe to be a genuine passion for his products, but he let his enthusiasm get the better of him and tried to launch too many products in too short a time, buying into the narcissistic fantasy that he could be all things to all people in the market, and that cheap Colombian labor would make it all possible. Once the Colombian factory opened and Sean left the company, it all went downhill.
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post #24 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 08:24 PM
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he also seems to be a compulsive liar. he will tell you anything and everything to make things seem ok for the time being...
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post #25 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 08:43 PM
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Fool me once...

Look, as one of the chanciest sobs you'd ever hope to meet, I wouldn't get near av123 if they started shipping bars of gold with every product.

If even 10% of what appears here and elsehwere is true...just 10%, who in their right mind would pull the lever on this loudspeaker slot machine when SO MANY OTHER VIABLE ID VENDORS ARE AVAILABLE?

Makes absolutely no sense to me. None.

People get your sh*t together and start using your heads. I mean that in the best sense possible. I see a lot of intelligent folks parting ways with their hard-earned income over one of the dodgiest enterprises I've ever come across.

I bought a used DT Trinity and took a risk. And well, it was destroyed in shipping and I have essentially nothing...BUT, I have insurance and I'll be reimbursed.

Now, where's the av123 insurance policy?

Think about it.

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post #26 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 08:57 PM
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Posts like this make sure I stay away from av123, I've just seen too many similiar topics all across the web that have the same tune.
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post #27 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 08:57 PM
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Pheww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was thinking about buying this sub from there. No thanks AV123. Thank you OP for creating this thread and GL.
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post #28 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 09:02 PM
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I was contemplating the AV123 subs & speakers but read too many threads & posts similar to this. I chose to spend my money with Epik and bought dual Sentinels while they're having their sale
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post #29 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 09:29 PM
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which Mark is this??
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post #30 of 586 Old 11-24-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piodef View Post

I too had a extremely unpleasent situation with mls.. i wanted to purchase a b-stock mfw and i live locally so i opted for local pick up. he let me know that he he would be able to bring the sub to his home locally and i could pick it up there. we set a date and it all went south from there... the first night i was suppose to pick it up he let me know the volume control unit didn't seem to be working properly. He said he would fix it and call me by 9 the next morning. at eleven the next morning(i hadn't heard from hime so i called) he said he didn't have any of the volume control units at his home and he would have the sub ready for pick up the next evening. i waited and recieved directions to his house and headed that way. i got to his home and spoke with his wife. apparantly he had family over and didn't have the sub ready. he came out and spoke to me showed me that the sub wasn't together. he infact didn't ever have a sub for me. he had a box that was being constructed, the amp and sub both in original packaging. i was extremely frustrated and let him know. he promised the sub would be ready the next day and he would personally deliver it to my home the next day. again promised a call by 9 am. i told him that if i didn't hear from him by then to not waste any more of my time or his. I haven't spoken to him since!
i ended up purchasing a outlaw sub during their sale and couldn't be happier.

This is a really interesting story, piodef. Seeing as how the B-Stock MFW's were in stock (and we've heard stories of people receiving them), the easiest thing to do would be to drive on over to where they're located, pay your money, and drive away with the sub. I can't see how that would be a problem. After all, MLS, Kyle, & Quintana have spoken about how they turned one of the rooms at AV123 into a showroom so that people can come into the facility and have a nice comfortable listen. According to them, this was in response to there being a fair amount of foot traffic and having such a room would allow for additional opportunities.

As you may know, people have bought product from them only to find that sometimes the product was sold by AV123, sometimes by this other company he set up called the Graham Company, and sometimes by himself. This makes warranty issues very problematical and may well suggest he was looking to pocket a bit more money than usual by bypassing the AV123 business structure whatever that may be. He does have some rather personal and quite pressing financial needs. It's a very fishy way of doing business. It's like you looking to buy a used car at the dealership and the general manager ask you to come to his house to pick it up.

BTW, on the day he said he had family over, were there several cars in the driveway?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is offline  
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