Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1009 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #30241 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
My goal is reference capability at 20hz.

If you are saying that four L12, corner loaded, in a sealed 12x17x7.5 foot room, cannot achieve that, I guess I need to return to the drawing board.

How far away am I and what model is necessary to get there?
I can't say definitively say that four L12's won't hit 120 in your room. You would just need about 15+ db of gain from corner loading and room gain imo.
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post #30242 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
LV12R is 101dB at 20Hz anechoic and L12 is -3.5dB that so 97.5dB at 20Hz plus room gain.

F12 is 98.5dB at 20Hz anechoic, just 1dB extra over L12. But 14Hz f3 point vs. 18Hz f3 point on L12. All this is anechoic so room gain can change things. As for premium amp controls, that matters less for those with AVRs or pre-pros with digital bass management.
I know you are getting this from Rythmik's website comparison and test results on the LV12R, but I have a hard time to believe the ported version is only gaining 3.5 dB over the sealed version. I just don't see a small 12" sealed, efficient(i.e. good for music and sound quality) sub hitting 97-98 dB at 20Hz when the SVS high excursion SB13 Ultra barely eeks out 97 db at 20 Hz. Sorry but I'd bet money it just won't do it. I think 94 is optimistic.
I had the lv12r in a bedroom and was never happy with it. In fact I had tower speakers that had more impact
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post #30243 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 04:11 PM
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I can't say definitively say that four L12's won't hit 120 in your room. You would just need about 15+ db of gain from corner loading and room gain imo.
Well, you guys freaked me out enough (you should get a commission from Rythmik!) that I am going with a pair of L22 instead, which has extremely similar output to my existing F15HP, but the form factor will be much easier to place in the rear corners.

My wallet is sad but my home theater is happy.

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post #30244 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 04:14 PM
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You did the right thing. Still much cheaper then a pair of f25.
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post #30245 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 04:31 PM
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so you still going to have 4 corner sub placement?
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post #30246 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
LV12R is 101dB at 20Hz anechoic and L12 is -3.5dB that so 97.5dB at 20Hz plus room gain.

F12 is 98.5dB at 20Hz anechoic, just 1dB extra over L12. But 14Hz f3 point vs. 18Hz f3 point on L12. All this is anechoic so room gain can change things. As for premium amp controls, that matters less for those with AVRs or pre-pros with digital bass management.
I know you are getting this from Rythmik's website comparison and test results on the LV12R, but I have a hard time to believe the ported version is only gaining 3.5 dB over the sealed version. I just don't see a small 12" sealed, efficient(i.e. good for music and sound quality) sub hitting 97-98 dB at 20Hz when the SVS high excursion SB13 Ultra barely eeks out 97 db at 20 Hz. Sorry but I'd bet money it just won't do it. I think 94 is optimistic.
I see what you are saying. I got the 101dB at 20Hz anechoic figure from Brian in an email quite a while ago. I got the relative differences from the website.

My guess is the numbers are formatted differently. For example, audioholics mentioned that the 1m peak figure makes the numbers seems 9dB higher than the 2m meters RMS figure.

Also, are we talking about burst tones or long-term sweeps... etc.

In any case my LV12R in room didn't compress significantly in the 100dB sweep level in REW. It might have been good up to 105dB or 103dB, but I didn't risk pushing it to find out because I only listen up to 85dB (maybe 90dB absolute max in rare cases), usually more like 75dB to 80dB.
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post #30247 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
LV12R is 101dB at 20Hz anechoic and L12 is -3.5dB that so 97.5dB at 20Hz plus room gain.

F12 is 98.5dB at 20Hz anechoic, just 1dB extra over L12. But 14Hz f3 point vs. 18Hz f3 point on L12. All this is anechoic so room gain can change things. As for premium amp controls, that matters less for those with AVRs or pre-pros with digital bass management.
I know you are getting this from Rythmik's website comparison and test results on the LV12R, but I have a hard time to believe the ported version is only gaining 3.5 dB over the sealed version. I just don't see a small 12" sealed, efficient(i.e. good for music and sound quality) sub hitting 97-98 dB at 20Hz when the SVS high excursion SB13 Ultra barely eeks out 97 db at 20 Hz. Sorry but I'd bet money it just won't do it. I think 94 is optimistic.
I had the lv12r in a bedroom and was never happy with it. In fact I had tower speakers that had more impact
Very happy with mine, but I don't listen loud at all and I have bookshelf speakers in a tiny untreated room.

So, I never pushed it aside from compression sweeps for academic purposes. Though I don't think I'll be doing those ever again because at the levels I listen at it simply doesn't matter.
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post #30248 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 05:40 PM
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Lv12r is a good sub for lower spl. Good sound quality and digs low.

Much better then svs pb1000
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post #30249 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 05:47 PM
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Lv12r is a good sub for lower spl. Good sound quality and digs low.

Much better then svs pb1000
Yeah, for me it's quite nice and was the best $600 or less option when I bought it almost 2 years ago. Like how high damping makes it sound more like a sealed sub. Mid is beefier but still very musical and tight.

Low recently sounds pretty good minus the subtle lag/overhang with music and fast bass in general.
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post #30250 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Well, you guys freaked me out enough (you should get a commission from Rythmik!) that I am going with a pair of L22 instead, which has extremely similar output to my existing F15HP, but the form factor will be much easier to place in the rear corners.

My wallet is sad but my home theater is happy.
Here is a nice tip: If you place the L22 on its side you will get extra tactile response because the two drivers are only 1.5" from the floor

Same thing for the F25 when placed on its side.
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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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post #30251 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 06:27 PM
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resonance/vibration sound in one of my LVX12's

I've noticed that running frequency sweeps that on one of my subs I get a resonance/rattle from about 75Hz to 130Hz. It's hard to capture but I did get the effect. It happens regardless of where I'm at in the room and doesn't seem to happen if I'm right in front of the driver (a few inches away from the cone). Perhaps the driver is loose?

I did my best and recorded some sweeps: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N...JnRHZTMHc/view

This audio clip does not do it justice in the least but you can here the audible rattle at there marks:

7 seconds
17
28
34 <- most pronounced
40 <- most pronounced

I doubt this is chuffing

here is one that is "normal" or doesn't exhibit that behavior: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N...ew?usp=sharing

thoughts on what might be happening?

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post #30252 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I've noticed that running frequency sweeps that on one of my subs I get a resonance/rattle from about 75Hz to 130Hz. It's hard to capture but I did get the effect. It happens regardless of where I'm at in the room and doesn't seem to happen if I'm right in front of the driver (a few inches away from the cone). Perhaps the driver is loose?

I did my best and recorded some sweeps: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N...JnRHZTMHc/view

This audio clip does not do it justice in the least but you can here the audible rattle at there marks:

7 seconds
17
28
34 <- most pronounced
40 <- most pronounced

I doubt this is chuffing

here is one that is "normal" or doesn't exhibit that behavior: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N...ew?usp=sharing

thoughts on what might be happening?
Also here's some visualizations of the "normal" one vs the susceptibly resonant one. The normal one almost never makes that noise (I measured from the same spot, same volume. Difference was mic placement but I was moving all over and listening to this well before I got out the recorder.





I can try and take more controlled measurements if anyone doesn't know off hand what this may be.
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post #30253 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 07:02 PM
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Thanks to @David Charles for his tip about the wonderful LFE on the Cloverfield BD. I bought it from Amazon and watched it tonight. It's a fun movie and the LFE is world class. It is as out of this world as the monsters in the movie were.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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post #30254 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I've noticed that running frequency sweeps that on one of my subs I get a resonance/rattle from about 75Hz to 130Hz. It's hard to capture but I did get the effect. It happens regardless of where I'm at in the room and doesn't seem to happen if I'm right in front of the driver (a few inches away from the cone). Perhaps the driver is loose?

I did my best and recorded some sweeps: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N...JnRHZTMHc/view

This audio clip does not do it justice in the least but you can here the audible rattle at there marks:

7 seconds
17
28
34 <- most pronounced
40 <- most pronounced

I doubt this is chuffing

here is one that is "normal" or doesn't exhibit that behavior: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0N...ew?usp=sharing

thoughts on what might be happening?
Could you please post a picture of your room showing the subwoofers? That sounds like an external resonance. Something like a credenza or cabinet close to the subwoofer. I had the same issue with one of my speakers and it was driving crazy. I found the issue after further inspection. it was an IKEA TV cabinet next to the speaker.
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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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post #30255 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Here is a nice tip: If you place the L22 on its side you will get extra tactile response because the two drivers are only 1.5" from the floor

Same thing for the F25 when placed on its side.
Similar results for upside down FV15 & FV18?
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post #30256 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 08:22 PM
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Plasma, how do you like your Yammy 1060?
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post #30257 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Similar results for upside down FV15 & FV18?
Ported subwoofers is different. Tactile response on ported subwoofers is a combination of ports and driver. You can try with the subwoofer on its side to see if the tactile response increase but I'm pretty sure not. The closer the port to the floor, the tactile response should increase.



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post #30258 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
so you still going to have 4 corner sub placement?
Yep

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post #30259 of 30401 Old 07-12-2017, 11:51 PM
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I am going with a pair of L22 instead, which has extremely similar output to my existing F15HP, but the form factor will be much easier to place in the rear corners. My wallet is sad but my home theater is happy.
I will enthusiastically join in with other forum members who have encouraged you to keep the two F15HP subs you already own. (And you may recall that just recently I expressed an interest in buying those same two F15HP subs that you originally intended to sell. I think it makes much more sense for you to hold on to them -- they are excellent subs!)

I am also convinced that investing in a pair of L22 subs is a brilliant idea. As you have said, the output of the L22 closely matches the bass performance of the F15HP, but with a footprint that is significantly more compact. I believe you have a very good reason to feel quite confident that you are making a great choice by purchasing the L22s: this model represents one of the best bang-for-the-buck values among all the different subwoofers that Rythmik sells (or put another way, the L22 is a Rythmik sub that delivers an exceptional bass-decibel-per-dollar ratio). For example, according to the Rythmik website, the L22 and the E15HP have essentially identical output. Now, a pair of L22s will cost you $1638, while a pair of E15HPs is $2312, so you save $674 with a pair of L22s. In addition to that, if you were to buy four L12s to approximate the bass output of two L22s, you would have to spend $2036, or $398 more. So the L22 occupies a definite "sweet spot" in Rythmik's product line.

Moreover, I believe you can feel free to set aside any notions about having bass overkill in your Home Theater. Subwoofer headroom is a beautiful thing. Rythmik's servo subs do an excellent job producing powerful, accurate, detailed, low-distortion bass, but even so, playing the very deepest frequencies requires a tremendous amount of work out of a sub, and there is a real performance advantage when you don't have to push your subs hard in order to achieve the sound pressure levels you want in your room. You've got excellent equalization capabilities in the electronic components you own, and those combined with subwoofer placement options should result in smooth, superbly balanced bass in your Home Theater.

As I mentioned in my email, I live in a "tiny house": a 17'x20' studio cottage that includes a full kitchen, bathroom, and living room. The original design for this house called for interior doors on hinges, but during the construction process I realized I could save a considerable amount of precious space by having pocket doors installed, instead. Would it be possible for you to replace the inner door of your Home Theater with a pocket door, and benefit from the extra free space within the room?
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post #30260 of 30401 Old 07-13-2017, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Could you please post a picture of your room showing the subwoofers? That sounds like an external resonance. Something like a credenza or cabinet close to the subwoofer. I had the same issue with one of my speakers and it was driving crazy. I found the issue after further inspection. it was an IKEA TV cabinet next to the speaker.
The odd thing is I tried both subs in the same spot. I'll try them in a completely different room and see if the one in question exhibits that behavior.

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Plasma, how do you like your Yammy 1060?
Still saving up and plan to start checking prices in September. Plan on getting 1070. Going to demo one in Magnolia soon vs. other Yamahas and just for fun Denon and Marantz.

Also, need to get some kind of TV cart/stand/rack/shelving with casters to hold it and allow easy access to the back connections without lifting it up and turning it backwards. My current TV cart isn't deep enough and is a pain to move on carpet.
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Here is a nice tip: If you place the L22 on its side you will get extra tactile response because the two drivers are only 1.5" from the floor

Same thing for the F25 when placed on its side.
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thoughts on what might be happening?
TJ the L22 might a good option for a nearfield sub, I know you have been looking to build something for NF. If you could stand it up you would get the benefit of the midbass impact on your chest even at lower volume levels, you could try it laying down as that might work better. Even going DIY you would be hard pressed to do it for much less than what they sell the L22 shipped for $849.

I wouldn't normally recommend something like that because many people want crazy SPL levels but since you mentioned your lower listening levels I think that would do everything you want. And simple, shipped to your door, no saw dust and piecing everything together. I would recommend a Mini DSP or something like that to be able to play with things more for NF use. Anyway, just a thought

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post #30263 of 30401 Old 07-13-2017, 01:26 PM
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TJ the L22 might a good option for a nearfield sub, I know you have been looking to build something for NF. If you could stand it up you would get the benefit of the midbass impact on your chest even at lower volume levels, you could try it laying down as that might work better. Even going DIY you would be hard pressed to do it for much less than what they sell the L22 shipped for $849.

I wouldn't normally recommend something like that because many people want crazy SPL levels but since you mentioned your lower listening levels I think that would do everything you want. And simple, shipped to your door, no saw dust and piecing everything together. I would recommend a Mini DSP or something like that to be able to play with things more for NF use. Anyway, just a thought
Quick correction, the L22 is $819 shipped, not $849.
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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #30264 of 30401 Old 07-13-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
TJ the L22 might a good option for a nearfield sub, I know you have been looking to build something for NF. If you could stand it up you would get the benefit of the midbass impact on your chest even at lower volume levels, you could try it laying down as that might work better. Even going DIY you would be hard pressed to do it for much less than what they sell the L22 shipped for $849.

I wouldn't normally recommend something like that because many people want crazy SPL levels but since you mentioned your lower listening levels I think that would do everything you want. And simple, shipped to your door, no saw dust and piecing everything together. I would recommend a Mini DSP or something like that to be able to play with things more for NF use. Anyway, just a thought
I have a miniDSP. I'm going to have to go DIY because my space behind the couch is 9" OD, so I need a very "shallow" driver. Not to derail too much but someone said they liked the ultimax because it was less localized. I think a "full range" at VNF (very near field) might be a good option for me. With VNF, I can only assume how localized it actually is.

In this thread I want to figure out if one of the LVX's has a rattling/resonance to it.

Marantz 7010 for 7.2.4
2 x Paradigm Prestige 75F's
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post #30265 of 30401 Old 07-13-2017, 08:17 PM
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Hey guys!

I just joined the Rythmik club an picked up an L12. It may be a little small for my 3000 cubic ft room and enrico recommended I go with an L22.

I may go that route but since I will moving a few times during the next few years, I am trying to keep the weight of the sub to a minimum.

I am trying to place the sub nearfield, about 4-5 ft from my listening area and I can hear some localization.

My set up is as followed

Anthem MRX 520
Sierra2
L12 sub.

I have tried lowering the crossover to 60hz and it helps but I can still hear some localization.

Also, do you guys have any suggestion with sub integration of low volume listening?

Tuan
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post #30266 of 30401 Old 07-14-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Could you please post a picture of your room showing the subwoofers? That sounds like an external resonance. Something like a credenza or cabinet close to the subwoofer. I had the same issue with one of my speakers and it was driving crazy. I found the issue after further inspection. it was an IKEA TV cabinet next to the speaker.
I tried a different room and it is definitely something in that room. It's odd that it sounds like it's coming from the speaker but it's clearly not. Also, it's odd that it's consistently worse in one than the other but I suppose not all of these subs are "exactly" the same. Anyways it's good to know that the subs are in perfect working order!

Marantz 7010 for 7.2.4
2 x Paradigm Prestige 75F's
1 x Paradigm Prestige 55C
8 x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Sub 2 x Rythmik LVX12's
TV: LG 65B6
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post #30267 of 30401 Old 07-14-2017, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Could you please post a picture of your room showing the subwoofers? That sounds like an external resonance. Something like a credenza or cabinet close to the subwoofer. I had the same issue with one of my speakers and it was driving crazy. I found the issue after further inspection. it was an IKEA TV cabinet next to the speaker.
I tried a different room and it is definitely something in that room. It's odd that it sounds like it's coming from the speaker but it's clearly not. Also, it's odd that it's consistently worse in one than the other but I suppose not all of these subs are "exactly" the same. Anyways it's good to know that the subs are in perfect working order!
When I got my SVS primes, the front left speaker always triggered a rattle/buzz during REW sweeps. It turned out I had my Xfinity wireless gateway under the speaker on the base of the furniture I was using as a stand. It had a resonance of the plastic exterior around 200Hz IIRC. I ended up using a piece of Styrofoam to damp the resonance and solve the issue.

So if a bookshelf speaker can do that around 75dB sweep level, the LVX12 sure can cause far more sympathetic vibrations.
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post #30268 of 30401 Old 07-14-2017, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
I tried a different room and it is definitely something in that room. It's odd that it sounds like it's coming from the speaker but it's clearly not. Also, it's odd that it's consistently worse in one than the other but I suppose not all of these subs are "exactly" the same. Anyways it's good to know that the subs are in perfect working order!
Good to know that it's not the subwoofer. Now to find the source of the noise, I would recommend you to play a content that you know it triggers the rattling then unplug your speakers or turn off your external amps and let the subwoofers play alone. That would help finding the source of the noise.



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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #30269 of 30401 Old 07-14-2017, 06:25 PM
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@enricoclaudio any spec sheets or additional info on fv25hp? its pretty amazin.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #30270 of 30401 Old 07-14-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuan209 View Post
Hey guys!

I just joined the Rythmik club an picked up an L12. It may be a little small for my 3000 cubic ft room and enrico recommended I go with an L22.

I may go that route but since I will moving a few times during the next few years, I am trying to keep the weight of the sub to a minimum.

I am trying to place the sub nearfield, about 4-5 ft from my listening area and I can hear some localization.

My set up is as followed

Anthem MRX 520
Sierra2
L12 sub.

I have tried lowering the crossover to 60hz and it helps but I can still hear some localization.

Also, do you guys have any suggestion with sub integration of low volume listening?

Tuan
Place it up front with your mains and not nearfield if you don't want it localized. Add a second if you want one nearfield. With 3000ft³ I would put a L22 up front and the L12 nearfield.
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