Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 08:37 AM
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yes...better to show an un-smoothed graph. Easier to find the problem areas.

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post #362 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Congrats on the new sub!!! It is often suggested that you display the graph freqs using a log scale rather than linear. Also there is something freakishly smooth about your graph that leads me to believe you are probably not doing it properly. You might want to re-check your procedures.

Changed them to log scale... posting all graphs here.

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

No worries, I was just curious. You'd need a room dimension around 19' to cause a response at 30 Hz, but that could include other rooms if it's open to them. Bass traps could help, but you'll need a good one to reach that low (an Auralex LENRD probably wouldn't do it).

yes my room is very large... 25 x 28 or so and has an opening going to a hallway.



In room response with front speaker + sub @ 80hz xover unsmoothed.



In room response with front speaker + sub @ 80hz xover smoothed.



In room response with front speaker + sub @ 80hz xover unsmoothed w/ PEQ filter applied.



In room response with front speaker + sub @ 80hz xover smoothed w/ PEQ filter applied.



In room response with front speaker + sub @ 80hz xover unsmoothed. Before peq and after peq.
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post #363 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Anyone with a PB Ultra 13 coming from (or going to) a Rythmik 15" sub please comment on the differences.

If you are concerned about flaming, please feel free to PM me.

Anyone?

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post #364 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 10:16 AM
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Porksoda.... Ah, that looks much better... more like what I'm used to seeing for in-room response graphs. Do you have one with just the sub alone? Is your room acoustically treated in any way? Have you tried other X-Os? Also if you could post the corresponding waterfalls for each graph that would go a long ways in describing your room's acoustical environment since the Rythmiks have so little "overhang". And finally does your AVR have Audyssey Multi-EQ capabilities?

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post #365 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Anyone?

I went from hsu vt3mkii to f12 and its a day and night difference for me... svs i have only compared sb 12plus which is also a big change from the vtf3 mkii. Perhaps you can use this info to deduce by looking at other comparisons.

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Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Porksoda.... Ah, that looks much better... more like what I'm used to seeing for in-room response graphs. Do you have one with just the sub alone? Is your room acoustically treated in any way? Have you tried other X-Os? Also if you could post the corresponding waterfalls for each graph that would go a long ways in describing your room's acoustical environment since the Rythmiks have so little "overhang". And finally does your AVR have Audyssey Multi-EQ capabilities?

I think i will do one with the sub alone... ill unplug the main speaker and do one... i will post it later today.

My room is very limited in what i can do with it... it has zero treatments.. the finish on the sub is so good that i was allowed to pull it out of a hidden corner and put it out in the open where it sounds the best.

I will post the corresponding waterfalls later as well.

I tried eq at different spots and so close to a hundred or so graphs... i found 80hz to be the best for me... if i did anything at below 80 there were some unwanted peaks from my speakers.

No my receiver has no correction software.

So far the only correction i can do is on the sub itself for single band.. which i have applied quiet successfully to reduce a peak.

I have gotten so "attached" to rew that i set my levels with it as well and then i confirmed and they were bang on.
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post #366 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Anyone?

I am going from 2 PB Ultra 13's to 2 Rythmik E15's 600 watt amps. Reason is the front of my room is the best place for subs and I want to upgrade speakers and need to floor space. My room is only 2400^ft sealed so I am not worried about output for movies (one Ultra handled it just fine). Last I had 2 Paradigm Servo 15's for years and and felt they were just a little better with music that the Ultra's. I know thats subjective and my option. The Ultra's are great subs and I will miss them.

I am looking forward to getting my Rythmik's and listen to them.

Brad
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post #367 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 01:09 PM
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Brad,

I went from a Velodyne HGS-15 to the Ultra 13s and also felt that the Ultra 13s weren't as good musically.

Once you get your E15's in, I'd definatly like to hear your comparison.

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post #368 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 01:35 PM
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Jim, I have heard the Ultra a few times, owned a VTF-3MK3, and now have F15. Clearly a difference. Compared to the other two, the Rythmik has no overhang....very tight and clean. My room is about 2300^3ft.

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post #369 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 01:36 PM
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I posted this question some time ago and need to post it again. I am setting up my F-15H600 today. I initially was going to plug it into my power conditioner but that did not work out - had to put the sub in a different area. I have a different surge protector I can use, but for some reason when I plug into it I get a hum in all my speakers, including the F-15... I assume it is a ground loop. When I plug sub directly into the wall socket, no hum. Does this sub have built in protection like my XPA-5 amp does? The XPA is recommended to be plugged directly into the wall socket with no surge protection. I would prefer to leave the F-15 plugged directly into the wall if possible because of the hum.

Also, on the Quick Guide that came with the sub, Brian references a link to detailed control curves at www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifier controls.html

I have tried all combos of this with no luck, and cannot find anything on Rythmik's website. There is not a separate application note for the PEQ setup as the Quick Guide indicates there is. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thank you!
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post #370 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Jim, I have heard the Ultra a few times, owned a VTF-3MK3, and now have F15. Clearly a difference. Compared to the other two, the Rythmik has no overhang....very tight and clean. My room is about 2300^3ft.

cschang. I remember when i first started my thread on hsu being boomy and lazy most suggested it was my room and/or incorrectly setup. I kinda thought everyone was crazy suggesting the hsu was musical and was "tight".

From your comment above it goes in line with what i thought then and know now.

I am a bit confused at your comment here vs on my thread about room issues...
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post #371 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 03:11 PM
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Ascend called me back and said to plug it into the wall.
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post #372 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

cschang. I remember when i first started my thread on hsu being boomy and lazy most suggested it was my room and/or incorrectly setup. I kinda thought everyone was crazy suggesting the hsu was musical and was "tight".

From your comment above it goes in line with what i thought then and know now.

I am a bit confused at your comment here vs on my thread about room issues...

Which Hsu were you talking about in the other thread? Many Hsu subs (particularly STF-2) are viewed as more musical than many other subs (but not against the Rythmiks).

Note that in cschang's comment above he is praising the Rythmik as really tight and not slamming the Hsu as sloppy.

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post #373 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

cschang. I remember when i first started my thread on hsu being boomy and lazy most suggested it was my room and/or incorrectly setup. I kinda thought everyone was crazy suggesting the hsu was musical and was "tight".

From your comment above it goes in line with what i thought then and know now.

I am a bit confused at your comment here vs on my thread about room issues...

I didn't read or participate in your thread but I can understand how those comments might be possible. When I got my VTF-2 a few years back (like 5) I was impressed by how controlled it sounded and especially with music... and I still believe that to be so, HOWEVER, when I got my first F12 into the same position I was just floor by how clean and well defined the bass was. I realized that my room acoustics was what allowed me to appreciate just how articulate and tight the Rythmik was. So the bottomline to me is... the HSU is quite musical and tight, its just that the Rythmik is even more controlled, however in a room with high reverberation times I doubt I would be able to tell the difference... so a 'loose' room can indeed hide the true capabilities of a 'tight' sub and make any sub sound 'flabby'. I suppose your written/verbal description could have lead to a misunderstanding of just how bad the HSU sounded... I'm thinking it probably didn't really sound as bad as all that. In the end, its just that these Rythmiks are so extra-ordinary in their reproduction of bass that its on another level altogether... nothing against the HSUs as I still think they too sound great and are 'musical'.

"For deep bass, the listener is not really listening to the speaker, but rather, is listening to the room as it is being played by the speaker."
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post #374 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

cschang. I remember when i first started my thread on hsu being boomy and lazy most suggested it was my room and/or incorrectly setup. I kinda thought everyone was crazy suggesting the hsu was musical and was "tight".

From your comment above it goes in line with what i thought then and know now.

I am a bit confused at your comment here vs on my thread about room issues...

My Hsu was NOT boomy in the least.

My comment was that the Rythmik had no overhang compared to the others, and is tight and clean.

My Hsu, was among the best sounding ported subs I have heard.

If you recall, I said you should take FR measurements of your Hsu to better understand what was going on in your room.

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post #375 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

Which Hsu were you talking about in the other thread? Many Hsu subs (particularly STF-2) are viewed as more musical than many other subs (but not against the Rythmiks).

Note that in cschang's comment above he is praising the Rythmik as really tight and not slamming the Hsu as sloppy.

I have a vt3 mk2

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

I didn't read or participate in your thread but I can understand how those comments might be possible. When I got my VTF-2 a few years back (like 5) I was impressed by how controlled it sounded and especially with music... and I still believe that to be so, HOWEVER, when I got my first F12 into the same position I was just floor by how clean and well defined the bass was. I realized that my room acoustics was what allowed me to appreciate just how articulate and tight the Rythmik was. So the bottomline to me is... the HSU is quite musical and tight, its just that the Rythmik is even more controlled, however in a room with high reverberation times I doubt I would be able to tell the difference... so a 'loose' room can indeed hide the true capabilities of a 'tight' sub and make any sub sound 'flabby'. I suppose your written/verbal description could have lead to a misunderstanding of just how bad the HSU sounded... I'm thinking it probably didn't really sound as bad as all that. In the end, its just that these Rythmiks are so extra-ordinary in their reproduction of bass that its on another level altogether... nothing against the HSUs as I still think they too sound great and are 'musical'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

My Hsu was NOT boomy in the least.

My comment was that the Rythmik had no overhang compared to the others, and is tight and clean.

My Hsu, was among the best sounding ported subs I have heard.

If you recall, I said you should take FR measurements of your Hsu to better understand what was going on in your room.

Oh no i was wondering either i misunderstood you or maybe something else.

I was curious because my standing was the if it was my room then another sub in the same/similar location would cause a bit of boom depending what kind of xover on the amp was applied.

But initially my issue with the hsu was that i found it to be lazy... everything seemed lagged... obvously i agree with your comments about rythmik i am beyond myself on what kind of sq this thing produces and is day and night difference to me.

In any case i was just curious about your comments here but on my thread you were suggesting it maybe the room. Which is true to an extent as you can see from the graphs above ... but the rythmik for sure solved my issue... it is not slow or laggy at all.. and i have zero boom.


I know when i first got the vtf3 mk2 it was a huge improvement over my previous sub as well. I suppose thats how technology is now every 4-5 years subs will get better and better...



I am also contemplating ordering an epik empire... i am not sure if thats wise or perhaps just get a f15 and promote the f12 to the 2ch room... or epik for the other movie room and promote f12 to 2ch room... anyone here compare empire to f12 or f15?
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post #376 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Porksoda.... Ah, that looks much better... more like what I'm used to seeing for in-room response graphs. Do you have one with just the sub alone? Is your room acoustically treated in any way? Have you tried other X-Os? Also if you could post the corresponding waterfalls for each graph that would go a long ways in describing your room's acoustical environment since the Rythmiks have so little "overhang". And finally does your AVR have Audyssey Multi-EQ capabilities?

I finally calibrated my sub... this is probably as good as it gets without me getting a sub eq.

few pics: I have Sub only, Tower Only & Sub + Tower... all with unsmoohted, smoothed and waterfalled.
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post #377 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

I finally calibrated my sub... this is probably as good as it gets without me getting a sub eq.

few pics: I have Sub only, Tower Only & Sub + Tower... all with unsmoohted, smoothed and waterfalled.

Nice graphs there... it helps when you can take measurements don't it? Your room is showing a bit of 'looseness' in places... I mean we all want a 200ms room but I guess that's more an ideal than an obtainable reality for many of us. My own personal belief is that if you can get the 3 octaves from 40Hz-320Hz right and tight, the system as a whole should sound quite pleasing as usually if you can tame the room to 320Hz the upper freqs will also end up falling into place as well and below 40Hz it becomes harder to distinguish those longer reverberation times (as its more natural to some extent). The good news is as you manage to 'tighten' up your room the audible response of the Rythmik will only improve further and amaze you even more. Several big, fat corner bass traps would definitely help down to about 100Hz and probably still work a little down to around 60Hz... but something like Audyssey MultEQ that will work in the time domain should be able to help in those lower regions. I would suggest you consider something along those lines for the future as opposed to just seeking out an alternative sub for any further improvement, as I believe you will probably find it hard to improve upon what your Rythmik already has to offer. Good Luck there and again Congrats!

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post #378 of 16371 Old 03-19-2010, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Nice graphs there... it helps when you can take measurements don't it? Your room is showing a bit of 'looseness' in places... I mean we all want a 200ms room but I guess that's more an ideal than an obtainable reality for many of us. My own personal belief is that if you can get the 3 octaves from 40Hz-320Hz right and tight, the system as a whole should sound quite pleasing as usually if you can tame the room to 320Hz the upper freqs will also end up falling into place as well and below 40Hz it becomes harder to distinguish those longer reverberation times (as its more natural to some extent). The good news is as you manage to 'tighten' up your room the audible response of the Rythmik will only improve further and amaze you even more. Several big, fat corner bass traps would definitely help down to about 100Hz and probably still work a little down to around 60Hz... but something like Audyssey MultEQ that will work in the time domain should be able to help in those lower regions. I would suggest you consider something along those lines for the future as opposed to just seeking out an alternative sub for any further improvement, as I believe you will probably find it hard to improve upon what your Rythmik already has to offer. Good Luck there and again Congrats!

thanks... i agree and i think i will be looking at an audyssey rackmount for sure... i just have to do some research on it. They make a sub eq and then another full multi channel eq.

I don't think i would go for the multi channel one i would probably do just the sub eq...

For the first time in a long long while i listened to some music in the living room... fantastic.
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post #379 of 16371 Old 03-22-2010, 12:20 PM
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UPS dropped on my E15's. The arrived in perfect shape.
Thanks Brian for the fast service order 3/18/10, delivered today.
I will hook them up tonight.

Brad
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post #380 of 16371 Old 03-22-2010, 01:45 PM
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UPS dropped on my E15's. The arrived in perfect shape.
Thanks Brian for the fast service order 3/18/10, delivered today.
I will hook them up tonight.

Brad

very nice... the black woofer looks very good.
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post #381 of 16371 Old 03-22-2010, 02:39 PM
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Patience is not bugging Bradh about how his new subs compare to the ultras.

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post #382 of 16371 Old 03-22-2010, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

There is no comparison between my old PS212 and the new F12 that replaced it (a pair, actually, but even one blows the Infinity away). The sound is much cleaner and deeper.

My new F12 sub came this evening! I just hooked it up real quickly.
I noticed An improvement immediately The bass Response was
exactly what I had hoped for.

I Am expecting new speakers tomorrow. (Paradigm Sig S-6.)
I will do some fine tuning after they come in. I will be in Audio
nirvana by this time tomorrow night.

RYTHMIK has a great product and I am very happy with my choice.
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post #383 of 16371 Old 03-22-2010, 09:31 PM
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I will add my voice to the list of very satisfied customers. I've had my F12 for 2 weeks now. For 2-channel music, switching between Direct and Pure Direct modes on the AVR reveals a very taut, precise bass presence that adds a whole new dimension to the music. In some recordings, I am hearing bass where I never heard it before. It was also a pleasure to deal with Brian. Now it's on to bass traps and fine tuning.
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post #384 of 16371 Old 03-23-2010, 08:25 AM
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When using the line level input the low-pass is variable and controlled by the dial on the amp, but the high-pass on the line out is fixed.

What is it set at? 80Hz?

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post #385 of 16371 Old 03-23-2010, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

When using the line level input the low-pass is variable and controlled by the dial on the amp, but the high-pass on the line out is fixed.

What is it set at? 80Hz?

Yes. http://rythmikaudio.com/download/A370PEQ.pdf
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post #386 of 16371 Old 03-23-2010, 08:37 AM
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Yes. http://rythmikaudio.com/download/A370PEQ.pdf

Thanks. I assume that is the same for all of the amps (not just the 370PEQ).

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post #387 of 16371 Old 03-23-2010, 11:16 AM
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First impression. With 2 channel music they disappear. They are fast, detailed, yet not not in your face. Almost as if they were turned off, but every note comes out with great detail, and depth.

With movies its as if they are not on, but when called upon they are there with nice punch and great authority. I can happily say they give me the dynamics and headroom I was hoping to keep with smaller subs.

All listening was done with a 60 crossover (no room EQ). I didnt have time to run Audyssey last. I will try to get that in the next day or so.

Attached is the subs in my room, and 1/3 octive RTA slow response, at one of my listening positions.

Question did I get what I was looking for? The answer is yes and quite frankly more than I thought.

Brian thanks for bringing a great product to market at a great price.

Brad
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post #388 of 16371 Old 03-23-2010, 12:04 PM
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First impression. With 2 channel music they disappear. They are fast, detailed, yet not not in your face. Almost as if they were turned off, but every note comes out with great detail, and depth.

With movies its as if they are not on, but when called upon they are there with nice punch and great authority. I can happily say they give me the dynamics and headroom I was hoping to keep with smaller subs.

All listening was done with a 60 crossover (no room EQ). I didnt have time to run Audyssey last. I will try to get that in the next day or so.

Attached is the subs in my room, and 1/3 octive RTA slow response, at one of my listening positions.

Question did I get what I was looking for? The answer is yes and quite frankly more than I thought.

Brian thanks for bringing a great product to market at a great price.

Brad

very nice.. i only got one f12 in my huge theatre room and for my listening preference they fit the bill exactly how you described it.

In fact they have changed the dynamic of my main speakers and i find the 2ch response in that room is much better than of my dedicated 2ch room... music is very enjoyable now there for me.

I have been taking room sweeps and adjusting the sub and even using the internal peq to get a peak or a dip to dissapear... probably will get on the sub eq soon. (I have xovered at 60hz instead of 80hz now as well.)

One question... what were you using before the e's?
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post #389 of 16371 Old 03-23-2010, 01:45 PM
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very nice.. i only got one f12 in my huge theatre room and for my listening preference they fit the bill exactly how you described it.

In fact they have changed the dynamic of my main speakers and i find the 2ch response in that room is much better than of my dedicated 2ch room... music is very enjoyable now there for me.

I have been taking room sweeps and adjusting the sub and even using the internal peq to get a peak or a dip to dissapear... probably will get on the sub eq soon. (I have xovered at 60hz instead of 80hz now as well.)

One question... what were you using before the e's?

2 SVS PB Ultra 13's. I want to upgrade speakers and the Ultra's were way to big. I went and listened to Paradigms, Def-tech ect and one of the high end stores had some Thiel's (which wasnt on my list) SCS4, CS1.6 CS2.4 CS3.7. The CS2.4's really stoodout (price vs. preformance). No matter what speakers I go with I will have room to move them around, and great subs to go with them.

Funny you would say that about changing the dynamics of your speakers. I thought mine sounded cleaner and more dynamic listening in 2 channel.

Brad
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post #390 of 16371 Old 03-23-2010, 02:25 PM
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2 SVS PB Ultra 13's. I want to upgrade speakers and the Ultra's were way to big. I went and listened to Paradigms, Def-tech ect and one of the high end stores had some Thiel's (which wasnt on my list) SCS4, CS1.6 CS2.4 CS3.7. The CS2.4's really stoodout (price vs. preformance). No matter what speakers I go with I will have room to move them around, and great subs to go with them.

Funny you would say that about changing the dynamics of your speakers. I thought mine sounded cleaner and more dynamic listening in 2 channel.

Brad

paradigms really surprised me this year with their sig line.. they were very smooth and clear... but i havn't listened to them for hours and hours and don't know but probably will get some towers to test them out soon.

I wouldn't say def tech if you were into clear uncoloured sound. I find they colour the sound too much for my taste.

Theil's are great... add totem to your list and see how they measure up... from that list i would personally pick theil and totem over the other two from my taste of music.

I think the dynamics and clarify of our towers sounding better makes sense as bass is very fast and controlled from the rythmik so any nodes created by the delayed waves are non existent. Also no boomyness which can have a perception effect of being "muddy" but its just lower freq overpowering higher frequencies.

I just did some more tweaking as much as i can do without a sub eq to get it sound "good" and i know here i am preaching to the choir that this sub performs better than i expected.

Anyone here successful in setting phase correctly as per brian's instructions... i am a bit confused as to how to calculate the phase of my speakers and calculating the extra delay for my sub....

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase3.html
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