Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 16538 Old 04-16-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I hear what you're saying but I would offer up that there is a difference between frequency response that we can see on programs like REW versus tonal characteristics. Take an exteme example. A sub with an 8" driver versus one with a 18" driver. I'd think you could get both to do 30hz but wouldn't you expect them to sound different?

Not trying to be argumentative (or maybe I am). Just trying to stimulate an advanced discussion about how two subs can hit the same frequencies cleanly but sound different.

I don't think there would be either measurable or audible differences between 2 subs, playing a 30 Hz sine wave, SPL matched and each at very low distortion, no box colorations etc, if one was an 8 in driver and the other was 18. 30 Hz is 30 Hz. If each driver were a perfect piston (no cone breakup) then I assume that as long as you operated both within the SPL/distortion limits of the weakest one, there would be no measurable or sonic difference between them no matter what the program material was (unless something about the design affected the room interaction). Of course the 8 has to move a lot further to achieve the same SPL in a room at a specific listening position, which makes it more susceptible to distortion, and in the real world limits its practical maximum SPL.
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post #542 of 16538 Old 04-16-2010, 12:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I hear what you're saying but I would offer up that there is a difference between frequency response that we can see on programs like REW versus tonal characteristics. Take an exteme example. A sub with an 8" driver versus one with a 18" driver. I'd think you could get both to do 30hz but wouldn't you expect them to sound different?

Not trying to be argumentative (or maybe I am). Just trying to stimulate an advanced discussion about how two subs can hit the same frequencies cleanly but sound different.

To keep it simple, the enclosure size and driver for both the 12" and 15" really give a pretty similiar fs response between the 2. With the 12" driver having less output. I've played with them both extensively and have a professional RTA tool on hand. Their responses and tonal quality are literally identical.
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post #543 of 16538 Old 04-18-2010, 07:29 PM
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Just purchased the F15. Being a music lover first, I hope it lives up to its reputation

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post #544 of 16538 Old 04-18-2010, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by David Barteaux View Post

Just purchased the F15. Being a music lover first, I hope it lives up to its reputation

Music lover eh? Fear not... give it optimal placement in the room and set it up correctly and prepared to be awed by what you hear coming out of it. I don't care what sub you are coming from, you will instantly notice how well defined each bass note has become, its crisp clarity will just stun you. And the tighter your room is the more amazed you will be at just how tight the Rythmik does play on the HIGH damp setting. And I'll tell you now, listening to music, it will be unlike any sub you've ever heard before... and once you've listened to music played through a Rythmik you'll never be able to go back to the distorted bloat you thought was bass music coming from whatever you had before. So... congratulations are in order! Please post back here with your impressions once you've had a chance to set it up properly and do some critical listening with music you are quite familiar with.

"For deep bass, the listener is not really listening to the speaker, but rather, is listening to the room as it is being played by the speaker."
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post #545 of 16538 Old 04-19-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Barteaux View Post

Just purchased the F15. Being a music lover first, I hope it lives up to its reputation

Dave you will be pleasantly surprised & happy. Enjoy and let us know how you make out.

As for all the comments about f15/f12... unfortunately i don't have a F15 with me i will Probably be ordering one when Brian has stock.

At that point i can probably do some sweeps and give my impression but since i have not heard the f15 i am only going by what Brian said to me.
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post #546 of 16538 Old 04-19-2010, 07:40 PM
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I will give u an update when it gets here next week. My old sub was SVS PB13 Ultra.

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post #547 of 16538 Old 04-20-2010, 05:42 AM
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I'll tell you this, I am a music guy - been playing various percussion and string instruments for 40 years so I have a decent ear for tonal differences, etc. I have heard quite a few different music systems in my life as well as many concerts and whatnot, but have never been in a recording studio so I have no reference for that. The F-15 "puts me there" musically - I do not have my system set up optimally because I haven't invested in measurement tools yet, setting up with an SPL and by ear is no way as accurate as measuring... at some point when I can justify the cost to the lovely woman sitting next to me I will. I cannot describe how well this sub has "rounded out" my humble system. I am running the F-15 in conjunction with my old M&K MX-70 (which is no slouch for a small room) but the Rythmik can handle my huge room by itself without problem musically.

As far as HT goes - I know a lot of folks on these forums recommend multiple subs for big rooms and I'm sure there is value added in that approach. I cannot afford it so I make the best of what I have in my possession. I seriously don't think I need anymore LFE in movies than I have. The F-15 really produces what I envisioned when I bought it.

There are a number of subs out there that are probably great performers, I only have time/experience with the two I listed here. I think anyone purchasing one of these will be more than happy. Give it a try!

If someone decides to upgrade their measurement equipment, let me know I'll buy your old stuff

Best of luck!
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post #548 of 16538 Old 04-20-2010, 07:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by David Barteaux View Post

I will give u an update when it gets here next week. My old sub was SVS PB13 Ultra.

I owned 2 of those as well. What you can honestly expect is to lose some raw output, but if tuned correctly and kept within its undistorted limits you can expect to gain much more accurate/detailed bass in the process. But think of it this way, you can get 2 Rythmik 15's for the price of one PB13, and 2 Rythmik 15" drivers will trump a single PB13 in both raw output and clean undistorted bass without breaking a sweat.
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post #549 of 16538 Old 04-20-2010, 07:45 AM
 
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Brian Ding: After reading through some of the older posts it has come to my attention that your going to drop the XLR 370 plate amps or reconfigure the PEQ plate amps so they have XLR inputs instead of the speaker level binding post/inputs?

Is this the case? If so when?


If this is the case I really hope that the XLR inputs will still have the option of the master/slave control switch in the new configuration. Maybe you could give more detail on this? The reason Im asking is because this summer, I am going to be doing 6 DS1500 kits for my revamped HT project and really need the master/slave xlr control option for all of them. The master/slave config option you have on your current XLR plate amps is a very useful tool and I really hope that if you combine the PEQ/XLR functions into one new standard plate amp it keeps this ability.

Also it would be nice if you could have a fully variable 24db lowpass on the amps instead of just a fixed 80hz 12db combined with the variable 12db knob. Or at least more fixed true 24db low pass options like 40,80,120...........
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post #550 of 16538 Old 04-20-2010, 07:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank45 View Post

I'll tell you this, I am a music guy - been playing various percussion and string instruments for 40 years so I have a decent ear for tonal differences, etc. I have heard quite a few different music systems in my life as well as many concerts and whatnot, but have never been in a recording studio so I have no reference for that. The F-15 "puts me there" musically - I do not have my system set up optimally because I haven't invested in measurement tools yet, setting up with an SPL and by ear is no way as accurate as measuring... at some point when I can justify the cost to the lovely woman sitting next to me I will. I cannot describe how well this sub has "rounded out" my humble system. I am running the F-15 in conjunction with my old M&K MX-70 (which is no slouch for a small room) but the Rythmik can handle my huge room by itself without problem musically.

As far as HT goes - I know a lot of folks on these forums recommend multiple subs for big rooms and I'm sure there is value added in that approach. I cannot afford it so I make the best of what I have in my possession. I seriously don't think I need anymore LFE in movies than I have. The F-15 really produces what I envisioned when I bought it.

There are a number of subs out there that are probably great performers, I only have time/experience with the two I listed here. I think anyone purchasing one of these will be more than happy. Give it a try!

If someone decides to upgrade their measurement equipment, let me know I'll buy your old stuff

Best of luck!

For reference level clean undistorted output, I think one F/D15 will do fine in a medium size enclosed room, but for truely large rooms, 2 or more work much better. Remember, with multiple dirvers you can keep the amp gains down and limit driver excursion and overall distortion. The rythmik subs are defin etly not output monsters, but when you run 2 or more in parallel the clean output becomes quite impressive.

Besides, if you can only afford one to start...........you can always buy another one down the road and run it in parallel when the funds become available.
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post #551 of 16538 Old 04-20-2010, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

For reference level clean undistorted output, I think one F/D15 will do fine in a medium size enclosed room, but for truely large rooms, 2 or more work much better. Remember, with multiple dirvers you can keep the amp gains down and limit driver excursion and overall distortion. The rythmik subs are defin etly not output monsters, but when you run 2 or more in parallel the clean output becomes quite impressive.

Besides, if you can only afford one to start...........you can always buy another one down the road and run it in parallel when the funds become available.

This is my plan

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post #552 of 16538 Old 04-20-2010, 06:30 PM
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Just saw Rythmik is based here in Austin, TX and is about 10min from my front door. Does anyone know if you can get demos there (and even buy)? Anyone ever been there in person?
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post #553 of 16538 Old 04-21-2010, 06:07 AM
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ntrain,

You are the second person ask me about the future of A370XLR. I guess I will just have to continue to make them or have the mater/slave function moved to the new XLR amp. But for now, I have enough inventory on A370XLR. So don't worry about it.
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post #554 of 16538 Old 04-21-2010, 07:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pelly_NV View Post

Just saw Rythmik is based here in Austin, TX and is about 10min from my front door. Does anyone know if you can get demos there (and even buy)? Anyone ever been there in person?

I believe if you talk to Brian he on occasion does in house demo's.........I know a few people from another forum who live in the area visited his place personally to check out his products........but I think you would have to contact Rythmik and talk directly to Brian to make an appointment. His subs are definetly worth the time for a demo. Best sub I have ever heard at almost any pricepoint. They remind me of the Revel B15A sub, which is also a very musical, articulate sub, also using a nice Class A/B and PEQ with a 15" driver(but no servo feedback), but 3 plus times the price of the Rythmik.
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post #555 of 16538 Old 04-21-2010, 07:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

ntrain,

You are the second person ask me about the future of A370XLR. I guess I will just have to continue to make them or have the mater/slave function moved to the new XLR amp. But for now, I have enough inventory on A370XLR. So don't worry about it.

Thats good to hear, because the master/slave XLR input/output feature is very, very useful. Makes alot of sense to keep that in place of the speaker level inputs which I think are a bit outdated and a waste of space for the majority of users today. Thanks for the heads up, because I was really sweating out you dumping the XLR master/slave option and that was a major selling point for my setups.
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post #556 of 16538 Old 04-21-2010, 08:09 AM
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But for now, I have enough inventory on A370XLR. So don't worry about it.

Whew.

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post #557 of 16538 Old 04-21-2010, 09:49 AM
 
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Brian Ding: Hey, another question, whenever you do reconfigure your amps to house both RCA and XLR inputs/outputs, did you ever think of having it setup so you could use the Master/slave feature work for the RCA input/outputs as well? I think that would be real slick. I dont see why you couldn't do that............
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post #558 of 16538 Old 04-21-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

Brian Ding: Hey, another question, whenever you do reconfigure your amps to house both RCA and XLR inputs/outputs, did you ever think of having it setup so you could use the Master/slave feature work for the RCA input/outputs as well? I think that would be real slick. I dont see why you couldn't do that............

I believe the RCA outs are subject to a high pass filter whereas the XLR is a single IN and single OUT.

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post #559 of 16538 Old 04-21-2010, 03:00 PM
 
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I believe the RCA outs are subject to a high pass filter whereas the XLR is a single IN and single OUT.

It could be configured so the RCA inputs/outputs send a pure pass through signal with the flick of a switch I would think.
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post #560 of 16538 Old 04-23-2010, 08:38 AM
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Brian,

You have suggested that over a certain distance that XLR connections should be used instead of RCA.

What would max distance for RCA cable be?

Assuming one has only RCA out from their AVR then would something like this do the trick?

Thanks

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post #561 of 16538 Old 04-23-2010, 12:30 PM
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It's going to be a fun weekend....New F12

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post #562 of 16538 Old 04-24-2010, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

Brian Ding: Hey, another question, whenever you do reconfigure your amps to house both RCA and XLR inputs/outputs, did you ever think of having it setup so you could use the Master/slave feature work for the RCA input/outputs as well? I think that would be real slick. I dont see why you couldn't do that............

The reason I use XLR for master/slave is that they have less noise, in particular over longer interconnect length. I have tried 15' RCA (Rick, this is for you) and it works fine in my home. In addition to interconnect length, another issue is the ground loop. XLR may be better in this regard. I have a new house and the wall electrical wiring should be up to the code. That may have helped. Anyway, XLR cables are not expensive. Although I can hear the sonic difference from difference RCA cables on our subwoofers, I haven't tried XLR cable yet. They may also make a difference.

BTW, since we touched this topic again. Let me ask if anyone would want an XLR output for high pass output.
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post #563 of 16538 Old 04-24-2010, 09:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The reason I use XLR for master/slave is that they have less noise, in particular over longer interconnect length. I have tried 15' RCA (Rick, this is for you) and it works fine in my home. In addition to interconnect length, another issue is the ground loop. XLR may be better in this regard. I have a new house and the wall electrical wiring should be up to the code. That may have helped. Anyway, XLR cables are not expensive. Although I can hear the sonic difference from difference RCA cables on our subwoofers, I haven't tried XLR cable yet. They may also make a difference.

BTW, since we touched this topic again. Let me ask if anyone would want an XLR output for high pass output.

I would be up for that. I use equipment that is true balanced(Wadia 861se,Aragon Paladium and BAT VKSE monoblocks)inputs/outputs, so to have a sub with XLR highpass outputs for me would be ideal. It would allow me to eliminate my RANE active xover.............
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post #564 of 16538 Old 04-24-2010, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

I would be up for that. I use equipment that is true balanced(Wadia 861se,Aragon Paladium and BAT VKSE monoblocks)inputs/outputs, so to have a sub with XLR highpass outputs for me would be ideal. It would allow me to eliminate my RANE active xover.............

But doesn't that get rid of the daisy-chaining? Or would it be a switch to either high-pass or full signal on the output?

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post #565 of 16538 Old 04-24-2010, 01:34 PM
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After trying a SVS PB12-NSD and finally sending it back after trying just about everything (except different placement as the sheer size limited to one spot in my room) I ended up spending the money to try the Rythmik F12.

Brian was extremely accommodating and answered all of my questions prior to letting me pickup a black F12.

Although I received the sub yeserday, I fought the urge to tweak the setup until today as my fiance can't stand the Audyssey "blips", especially when you need to do it six times! LOL

So today I ran the Audyssey calibration and then set levels to 75dB using my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter and a stand. Once everything was ready, I popped in the Transformers: Rise of the Fallen Blu-ray which I had used (seemingly) a million times when tweaking around the SVS sub.

Let me just say...my first demo with the Rythmik F12 was nothing short of a religious experience! All the "missing" bass I was trying to find with the SVS was there! The detail with the helicopter blades, the higher-range in explosions, etc. After minor tweaking with the incredible amount of settings on the back of the sub, I have everything set for a showing of the Avatar Blu-ray tonight with friends. (I am one of the only people who has still never seen this movie)

I have a new Pioneer VSX-1020 coming in Monday which will replace the Denon AVR-1909 I was using. Once that's setup, I'll be looking forward to really dialing-in my setup.

This post isn't to knock the SVS. However, in my (admittedly awful) room dimensions and with my current setup, the Rythmik was about as dramatic an improvement as I could have hoped for.

Thanks again Brian!
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post #566 of 16538 Old 04-24-2010, 04:16 PM
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The RYTHMIK F12 sound just right for my needs. A question, though, is that I am looking to extend the bass output of my 2 channel system. No RCA out or bass management. Actually, no LFE line level out. My integrated amp DOES have line level out which I am using to drive a Rotel 6 channel amp for kitchen/outdoor speakers. I assume I would have to get an F12 with high level in/out and use the sub crossover to facilitate the use of the main speakers for frequencies above 80hz crossover. Alternatively, I would have to get RCA Y-adapters and connect one Y to Line -in on Rotel, one to sub-left, and the same with the right side channels. My concern with the latter is that I would get overlap/reinforcement of low frequencies between my full range speakers and the sub. How would I manage this issue?

Also, can anyone using an F12 this way comment on the sonic impairments of your mains or is it not noticeable having the extra connections in the amp-speaker path?

Tks

Maybe this should be a separate thread?
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post #567 of 16538 Old 04-25-2010, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Pelly_NV View Post

.....I have everything set for a showing of the Avatar Blu-ray tonight with friends. (I am one of the only people who has still never seen this movie)

You're killing me I haven't seen Avatar either and I am probably going to wait until I get a D15SE, although you guys with the 12's have me intrigued. I don't have a lot of room to put a sub. I like the down firing design since I have wood floors, so it should work well. My main problem is fitting it into the budget. Congrats on the great sound and enjoy the movie
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post #568 of 16538 Old 04-25-2010, 11:46 AM
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I like the down firing design since I have wood floors, so it should work well.

I could be wrong, but my understanding that wood floors and down firing was bad combination.

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post #569 of 16538 Old 04-25-2010, 11:59 AM
 
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I could be wrong, but my understanding that wood floors and down firing was bad combination.

Pure myth..........
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post #570 of 16538 Old 04-25-2010, 12:07 PM
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I could be wrong, but my understanding that wood floors and down firing was bad combination.

There seems to be many opinions on this. My floor is an engineered hardwood floor attached to a concrete slab so it is pretty solid. If there is a problem, I can always put a small piece of carpet under it. From what I have read(and I can easily be wrong) a down firing sub should be easier to place in my room. I really don't have many options for placement.
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