Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nith View Post

+1
I'm on the same boat. I like Rythmik and I like dual stacked drivers similar to JL F212. I like to build one similar but I've never done woodworking before. The other time I just think buy the D15SE and get it over with.

monomer: The reading was painful but it was good I thought I was trying to decode hex values.

The D15SE is worth the extra $400 or so bucks vs. DIY, the finish on it is absolutely top notch. And you can always daisy chain it and buy another down the road when funds become available. My 3rd one should be at my doorstep tommarow.
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post #632 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

The D15SE is worth the extra $400 or so bucks vs. DIY, the finish on it is absolutely top notch. And you can always daisy chain it and buy another down the road when funds become available. My 3rd one should be at my doorstep tommarow.

Yeah, I looked at DIY but I really can't see the savings by the time I add my time in and the finishing costs to get it anywhere near the finish of the D15SE. 3rd one I wish I had just one Anticipation
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post #633 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 02:31 PM
 
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Yeah, I looked at DIY but I really can't see the savings by the time I add my time in and the finishing costs to get it anywhere near the finish of the D15SE. 3rd one I wish I had just one Anticipation

If you have a decent woodshop and paint booth already, are good with cabinetry, then DIY is a good way to go(To make a D15SE is about $75 materials which include the MDF and piano grade gloss finish), as you can save in reality about $400. But otherwise if not, for what Rythmik sells their D15SE for its not worth the hassle. Seriously $1000 for a D15SE is a steal. I have had a number of subwoofers that cost 2-4 times what the D15SE goes for and not one of them were in the same league musically. Even if the price was jacked up $500-1000 more I would consider it a worthwhile price. Nice thing with Rythmik is the price is kept low as your not paying for paid advertisement, office/warehouse costs, employees etc. etc. Since its just basically Brian working out of his own home it keeps the costs super low and very reasonable. And I will always support the "little guy" when a superior product is produced. I can't recommend these subs enough. There is just too much overpriced A/V cr@p on the market, its really nice when there are superior reasonably priced alternatives such as Rythmik around.
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post #634 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

If you have a decent woodshop and paint booth already, are good with cabinetry, then DIY is a good way to go(To make a D15SE is about $75 materials which include the MDF and piano grade gloss finish), as you can save in reality about $400. But otherwise if not, for what Rythmik sells their D15SE for its not worth the hassle. Seriously $1000 for a D15SE is a steal. I have had a number of subwoofers that cost 2-4 times what the D15SE goes for and not one of them were in the same league musically. Even if the price was jacked up $500-1000 more I would consider it a worthwhile price. Nice thing with Rythmik is the price is kept low as your not paying for paid advertisement, office/warehouse costs, employees etc. etc. Since its just basically Brian working out of his own home it keeps the costs super low and very reasonable. And I will always support the "little guy" when a superior product is produced. I can't recommend these subs enough. There is just too much overpriced A/V cr@p on the market, its really nice when there are superior reasonably priced alternatives such as Rythmik around.

My problem is I just have too many projects and not enough time. That's why I included my time as a factor. I have the skills to build it, but for $400, it is pretty attractive to just buy it and have it delivered, but then the conservative side says to just buckle down and build it and save the money. In the end, the cheap side of me will probably win and make me build it.
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post #635 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 03:22 PM
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I'm know I want one DS15. I think I want two. I might even want three.

So my plan is to go ahead and build three cabinets at once. The cost of materials is nothing compared to time and I can build three without adding a lot of time vs. building one.

Then as fund$ allow I can get the kits from Brian to complete the other(s). If I don't end up needing three I can probably sell the finished cabinet to someone.

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post #636 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 05:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by petew View Post

I'm know I want one DS15. I think I want two. I might even want three.

So my plan is to go ahead and build three cabinets at once. The cost of materials is nothing compared to time and I can build three without adding a lot of time vs. building one.

Then as fund$ allow I can get the kits from Brian to complete the other(s). If I don't end up needing three I can probably sell the finished cabinet to someone.

I know Im doing 6-8 DS1500 XLR kits for the summer HT rennovation project. The kits are a great deal as well.
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post #637 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nith View Post

+1
I'm on the same boat. I like Rythmik and I like dual stacked drivers similar to JL F212. I like to build one similar but I've never done woodworking before. The other time I just think buy the D15SE and get it over with.

monomer: The reading was painful but it was good I thought I was trying to decode hex values.

Yeah, that's what happens when I get the day off and start waxing-on philisophically... I often try to cram too many thoughts into a sentence and end up with some bizarro disjointed hard to read alphabet soup. Trust me, there is a line of logic in there somewhere, you just gotta stuggle to find it. Sorry to cause you any pain, but remember "Whatever doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger". This thread is a nice respite from that BIGGER, LOUDER, LOWER crowd that find their way into so many other manufacturer specific sobwoofer threads.

"For deep bass, the listener is not really listening to the speaker, but rather, is listening to the room as it is being played by the speaker."
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post #638 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Sorry I played a trick on you. I made a mistake earlier and you corrected me.

Brian,

Do you have the link to the dual 15" kit DIY plan somewhere?
-Manoj

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post #639 of 17253 Old 04-29-2010, 11:32 PM
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What is the difference between the black oak grain finish and the matte black finish?

I might have been bitten by the Rythmik bug.

Mark.
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post #640 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 07:02 AM
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wow, i got my F12 a few days back and it's absolutely phenomenal sounding. I've never heard bass this clean and tight. It totally exceeded my expectations.

Hi monomer, remember me? The one who flaked on you about your vtf2 in the hsu forum? A big reason why i looked into rythmik was thanks to you! And thank you again!
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post #641 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MukAudio View Post

What is the difference between the black oak grain finish and the matte black finish?

I might have been bitten by the Rythmik bug.

Mark.

It is all finish. I got the idea of black oak grain from Madisound supplier when they paint real oak black. That much be very good. So I offer that with less expensive laminate that still shows the gain pattern. The matte black is just like what you would see on other more afforable speakers. Dave at Ascend recommend that so his customers can match their 340SE. BTW, I have a pair of those that I used now for voicing the subwoofers. It is very interesting that I mention voicing as I seem to be very technical. It is very unfortunately that components make a difference in sound. Selecting the correct combination is the art behind it. It goes beyond thinking FR and THD are the only two things matters.
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post #642 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 07:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

It is all finish. I got the idea of black oak grain from Madisound supplier when they paint real oak black. That much be very good. So I offer that with less expensive laminate that still shows the gain pattern. The matte black is just like what you would see on other more afforable speakers. Dave at Ascend recommend that so his customers can match their 340SE. BTW, I have a pair of those that I used now for voicing the subwoofers. It is very interesting that I mention voicing as I seem to be very technical. It is very unfortunately that components make a difference in sound. Selecting the correct combination is the art behind it. It goes beyond thinking FR and THD are the only two things matters.

Brian, didnt you know that gloss pianno black goes with everything?

Anyway, one thing that I think you should look into is getting more woodgrain colors/laminates. I know there are alot of people who are seriously looking into purchasing you product, but the lack of alternative woodgrain finishes puts a damper on it for some since they want matching or close matching finishes for their main speakers and decor.
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post #643 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

The D15SE is worth the extra $400 or so bucks vs. DIY, the finish on it is absolutely top notch. And you can always daisy chain it and buy another down the road when funds become available. My 3rd one should be at my doorstep tommarow.

It was never about saving few hundred bucks. I don't believe in cost effective in DIY. In my opinion, the real cost effective is to buy the finished product. Given the D15SE, it doesn't matter what angle one would view it, it's a steal for that price. Sometimes I wonder whether Brian makes any profits from selling these.

There are benefits to do-it-yourself:
1. Personal satisfactory. (often time, it's a regrets. DIY'ers never admit but to suck it up).
2. Gain knowledge (gain basic woodworking skills, operate power tools, etc)

The downside to do-it-yourself:
1. Wasted time.
2. Wasted unnecessary money. There's always a mishap in the design.
3. In most case, DIY product will never equal to finished product (performance or aesthetic wise). One needs to have the passion, creativity, patience, skills, and knowledge to make a DIY product to exceed the manufacturer finished product.

By the way, I hear you are constructing a dedicated home theater and that you plan on doing 6-8 Rythmik CI. Why did buy another D15SE? Buying bug?
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post #644 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by noinimod View Post

wow, i got my F12 a few days back and it's absolutely phenomenal sounding. I've never heard bass this clean and tight. It totally exceeded my expectations.

Hi monomer, remember me? The one who flaked on you about your vtf2 in the hsu forum? A big reason why i looked into rythmik was thanks to you! And thank you again!

Yeah I remember you... hey guy, glad you did look into it. Though I loved my HSU and thought very highly of it, the Rythmik is on another level all by itself. My buddy wants that HSU and is determined to start his home theater next month (June) so its a good thing I hung on to it. I'm really glad you got yourself a Rythmik. How long did shipping take? that must have been a real nail-biter huh? Well, spend some time getting it tune into your room and after some critical listening session with music you are quite familiar with post back with your impressions.

"For deep bass, the listener is not really listening to the speaker, but rather, is listening to the room as it is being played by the speaker."
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post #645 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 08:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nith View Post

It was never about saving few hundred bucks. I don't believe in cost effective in DIY. In my opinion, the real cost effective is to buy the finished product. Given the D15SE, it doesn't matter what angle one would view it, it's a steal for that price. Sometimes I wonder whether Brian makes any profits from selling these.

There are benefits to do-it-yourself:
1. Personal satisfactory. (often time, it's a regrets. DIY'ers never admit but to suck it up).
2. Gain knowledge (gain basic woodworking skills, operate power tools, etc)

The downside to do-it-yourself:
1. Wasted time.
2. Wasted unnecessary money. There's always a mishap in the design.
3. In most case, DIY product will never equal to finished product (performance or aesthetic wise). One needs to have the passion, creativity, patience, skills, and knowledge to make a DIY product to exceed the manufacturer finished product.

By the way, I hear you are constructing a dedicated home theater and that you plan on doing 6-8 Rythmik CI. Why did buy another D15SE? Buying bug?

Gotta remember, Brian doesn't have the same overhead as a typical company. He doesnt have a warehouse, office, assemblers or office people to pay, your not paying a distributor's cut, a retailer/salesmans cut either. No major advertising etc. etc.

I can garentee that if Brian is selling 3-5 units a week he is doing pretty good for himself(and that may very well be a lowball too on quantity sold)and making some pretty good money. And I am all for that too.

When I used to work for a HT sales and install company I picked up a number of floorstanders that retailed for $10-15k plus at my accomdation cost(which is basically somewhere less than half retail). One example is a set of Revel Salon speakers. I broke em down, and even though the speakers retailed for around $13k, there was honestly only about $80 bucks worth of MDF, about $80-100 in xover parts, and maybe the drivers themselves had a cost of about 3-400 bucks or less even because the drivers were built in house by Harmon Kardon. So A $13k speaker probably had significantly less than $500 total in components and materials. Pretty sick the markup eh? I sold a few pairs of them myself, and as a salesman my cut/% was about $1500 bucks in my paycheck for a pair sold. Plus the store made its own profit etc. etc.

Now I run a pair of Kef XQ20's where I installed new custom xovers(total paid was $900 including matching Kef stands,new xover parts and speakers themselves)and eventually will be running dual D15SE's as well. Total cost will be under $3k. As it stands right now Im under $2k and the sound quality off my current setup is significantly better to my ears than any floorstanders I have heard that retails for $15-20k plus. And I have had quite a few including the Salon's,Studio's, Wilson Watt Puppies, Focal(JL Labs) Grand Uptopia Be's and a number of others as well.

As for why I am picking up so many products of his?

Well I have my bedroom HT system which has 2 D15SE's, I have a 2 channel setup which currently has one D15SE(going to add another as soon as I sell off the last of my old subs), and then I have the main theater room, where Im going to be doing 6-8 in parallel off 2 20A circuits dedicated for the subs and another 2 20A circuits dedicated for the monoblocks,processor and source units. THe room is only about 22x14x8, but I dont like overdriving things. Even on peak sub effects I want to make sure those 15" cones are barely moving so there is 0 distortion. Im not buying multiple drivers for the sheer output, Im doing it so there is 0 distortion and even bass response/low frequency extension in the room.
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post #646 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 10:56 AM
 
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Well, Im going to update another dealing with Rythmik:

Just picked up my 3rd D15SE. Briaqn went well above and beyond out of his way to set me up with my lastest one.

I was using 2 DS15SE's for our BR HT system(bought one originally, then did an equipment trade with another gentleman for the 2nd one), both were the PEQ2 versions. I was taking one up and down the stairs with me to my 2 channel room/den for music listening(yeah, thats a workout everytime ) because my older Kef PSW3500's were just not in the same class as the RYthmik(and they are good sounding downfiring subs). So, before I ordered up another D15SE, I enquired with Brian if at MY COST, I could send in a PEQ2 plate amp and have it converted to an XLR unit, because I wanted to buy a 2nd one for the HT setup and run a master/slave config off my HT processor which has an XLR sub output. He told me originally, that he would do it for free if I paid shipping. I was estatic about this, and ordered another D15SE a few days later. I emailed him a few times back and forth about making sure stock was in and how to add in the extra cost for shipping for the 2nd XLR plate amp and how much he would need for deposit for the 2nd plate amp since I wanted it shipped out with the D15SE so I wouldn't have any downtime. He told me nevermind about the shipping, he would take care of it as well. He even sent out the second XLR plate amp without charging me a deposit up front. This is so far above and beyond what is reasonable to go out of his way to make a customer happy.
Also since I ordered last week, I didn't hear back from him a few days about the product shipping out and thought it would ship the end of last week. But when I got in contact with him he said he was in the process of assembling it and it would ship out the beginning of this week. Well, I got the TN from him and found out it wouldn't arrive via UPS till next Monday in May. Noone was going to be home that week so I called him up and asked him if he could ship it out Fedex instead for a Sat. delivery, again offering to pay any difference for the shipping charge or hassle on his part. He was fine with it again, and I ended up getting it today instead.


So to sum it up: You just do not get this type of CS from a typical company. SO I had to share. I received both items this morning and swapped out the plate amp on one of my current D15SE's and all is working flawlessly. This is another reason why I heavily recommend Rythmik, even though its a one man company, the CS is above and beyond what you typically get in this industry.


And Brian: Just a recommendation, Im surprised you don't use Fedex ground instead of UPS. My finding is Fedex ground service is not only faster(and free Sat. delivery with no extra charge), but less expensive too. UPS was quoting shipping time of 4 days. Fedex ground was 3 with a Sat. buffer on top. Ever think about switching over or adding a Fedex alternative to UPS? I know they are great for small business.

And one last thing. Im curious, since you use Class A/B plate amps, how many watts do they run in class A mode before switching over to A/B?

Thanks again man, awesome products you have.
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post #647 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 03:51 PM
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Hey guys,

I just took plunge into home audio, and slowly building up.

Currently only piece of equipment I have is denon 2310ci, and I have 3 speakers being shipped to me right now - Paradigm millenia 200 x 2 for L/R and millenia 20 for center.

Due to WAF I had to get the slick looking speakers.

Now, I'm looking into getting a subwoofer (I won't get surrounds or rears until I move, since my condo layout behind my couch is open space).

Our usage will be around 80% movies/video game, then 20% music..

With my millenia speakers (which has FR of +2 at 87hz for left/right, then FR of +2 at 110hz for center), do you guys recommend F12 vs F15 for x-over settings over 80hz? Or does PEQ2 make my point moot?

By the way, room is all shaped weird, with main living room and opening to left to kitchen, and bottom right to stairs/dining room (attached picture). My ceiling is 9ft high...

Oh and although we are on 2nd floor, there's only garage beneath us, and a neighbor above us.

I would appreciate any advise on the kind of subs I should get, placement, how many I should get, etc etc. Been looking through most of the threads for svs/ed/epik/hsu, but for looks (piano black + silver speaker <3) and musical performance seems to point me towards rythmik... (I want mostly tight and accurate bass, as I won't push subwoofers too much).

From rough calculation, my living room with all the opening is probably about 4000 cu ft maybe?



oops my budget is in flux right now, but I hope I can spend up to 1k if really necessary. and maybe I should just call rythmik
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post #648 of 17253 Old 04-30-2010, 04:42 PM
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Just got off the phone with Rhythmik. Very patient with my questions and helpful. Looks like I am going to order a F12 within the next couple of days...
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post #649 of 17253 Old 05-01-2010, 11:51 AM
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Hello, This is my first post here but I have been interested in Rythmik CI subs for some time now. Ntrain has had a little influence on that I have gone back and forth between building a single 15 in a coffee table. Or going with duals and building 2 conventional forward firing 12 sub boxes. My wife would prefer the coffee table approach. Her statements are (why do we have to have TWO subs?) After seeing the new 8ohm dual 15 drivers and the 600 amp at under $800 I came up with another coffee table idea. So I thought I would post it here to get some ideas. Each driver would have its own enclosure of about 3 cu. ft. One would fire up and one would fire down. Both would have 2.5 of clearance from the floor or top shelf. The box would be built out of ¾ mdf and braced. The shell would be out of some dimensional hardwood. Here is my sketch.
LL
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post #650 of 17253 Old 05-01-2010, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by turboswede95 View Post

Hello, This is my first post here but I have been interested in Rythmik CI subs for some time now. Ntrain has had a little influence on that I have gone back and forth between building a single 15” in a coffee table. Or going with duals and building 2 conventional forward firing 12” sub boxes. My wife would prefer the coffee table approach. Her statements are (why do we have to have TWO subs?) After seeing the new 8ohm dual 15” drivers and the 600 amp at under $800 I came up with another coffee table idea. So I thought I would post it here to get some ideas. Each driver would have its own enclosure of about 3 cu. ft. One would fire up and one would fire down. Both would have 2.5” of clearance from the floor or top shelf. The box would be built out of ¾” mdf and braced. The shell would be out of some dimensional hardwood. Here is my sketch.

You should have them both fire down(compression loaded). You will LOVE their 15" drivers. IMO they are just as accurate and musical as their 12" drivers, but with a bit more output. Remember its easy to turn the bass DOWN(and reduce the potential for distortion), but if you don't have enough bass...............get the picture?

2 15" Rythmik drivers with a pair of 370 amps is impressive(and thats an understatement), so doing a single Class H 600 watt plate amp driving a pair of 15"s should net you basically the same results.

When in doubt ALWAYS get the BIGGER driver.
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post #651 of 17253 Old 05-01-2010, 12:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by surlung View Post

Hey guys,

I just took plunge into home audio, and slowly building up.

Currently only piece of equipment I have is denon 2310ci, and I have 3 speakers being shipped to me right now - Paradigm millenia 200 x 2 for L/R and millenia 20 for center.

Due to WAF I had to get the slick looking speakers.

Now, I'm looking into getting a subwoofer (I won't get surrounds or rears until I move, since my condo layout behind my couch is open space).

Our usage will be around 80% movies/video game, then 20% music..

With my millenia speakers (which has FR of +2 at 87hz for left/right, then FR of +2 at 110hz for center), do you guys recommend F12 vs F15 for x-over settings over 80hz? Or does PEQ2 make my point moot?

By the way, room is all shaped weird, with main living room and opening to left to kitchen, and bottom right to stairs/dining room (attached picture). My ceiling is 9ft high...

Oh and although we are on 2nd floor, there's only garage beneath us, and a neighbor above us.

I would appreciate any advise on the kind of subs I should get, placement, how many I should get, etc etc. Been looking through most of the threads for svs/ed/epik/hsu, but for looks (piano black + silver speaker <3) and musical performance seems to point me towards rythmik... (I want mostly tight and accurate bass, as I won't push subwoofers too much).

From rough calculation, my living room with all the opening is probably about 4000 cu ft maybe?



oops my budget is in flux right now, but I hope I can spend up to 1k if really necessary. and maybe I should just call rythmik

With an open space like that I recommend a 15" Rythmik version. Read my above space.

IMO the only time someone should consider the 12" Rythmik is due to space constraints with the enclosure. I have alot listening time with both the 12" and 15" Rythmik drivers, and they honestly sound identical(And btw, I have been a bass player for the past 20 plus years)so I always recommend going with the 15" driver if you have the room for it.

My personal favorite is Brian's downfiring D15SE, and if you have speakers that can honestly play flat down to 80-90hz, it should be the first choice. If your main speakers have difficulty getting down to under 100hz, then you should look at his front firing F15 models, as they blend into smaller speakers with poor bass extension better.
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post #652 of 17253 Old 05-01-2010, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

You should have them both fire down(compression loaded). You will LOVE their 15" drivers. IMO they are just as accurate and musical as their 12" drivers, but with a bit more output. Remember its easy to turn the bass DOWN(and reduce the potential for distortion), but if you don't have enough bass...............get the picture?

2 15" Rythmik drivers with a pair of 370 amps is impressive(and thats an understatement), so doing a single Class H 600 watt plate amp driving a pair of 15"s should net you basically the same results.

When in doubt ALWAYS get the BIGGER driver.

The only reason I came up with the one up and one down idea was to keep the footprint small. So it would fit in the corner of two couches.. The upper driver would still be under the top shelf, I don't know if that is still considered compression loading?
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The only reason I came up with the one up and one down idea was to keep the footprint small. So it would fit in the corner of two couches.. The upper driver would still be under the top shelf, I don't know if that is still considered compression loading?

Run them opposing side to side then..........
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post #654 of 17253 Old 05-01-2010, 08:50 PM
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why do we have to have TWO subs?

There's some natural mode cancellation that occurs when you straddle the listening area with a pair of subs, either in front and behind the listeners or to the left & right of the listeners. The Harman paper linked earlier in this thread explains the theory. Given a choice between putting two subs in one cabinet or spreading them out, I'd do the latter.

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post #655 of 17253 Old 05-02-2010, 01:38 PM
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I had a friend and fellow AVSer come over yesterday with his new Rythmik 15 (front-firing cabinet - maybe an E15 or F15?). He just got it and wanted to get my opinion on sound and capability, because he hasn't had a chance to really set it up optimally yet.

I have a Hsu VTF3 Mk2 (precursor to the VTF 2 Mk3), with bass traps and a BFD eq. I ran some baseline sweeps of the Hsu with and without eq applied -- basically this. Then we put the sub in the same location as mine, which is basically behind the center of the couch, firing into the back of the couch.

With the Rythmik hooked up, set to 14Hz extension, I ran the same sweeps. The in-room response was pretty similar pre-eq, with the same room modes making the two large peaks. My ported sub had a bit more SPL around the 17-20Hz range since that's the tuning frequency of the port -- at least more SPL at the 82dB~ level of the test tone.

We tried a few different settings on the sub, and saw visually what the High versus Low damping setting does, the latter rolling off the bass from sub-xo point at a steeper rate with less dB, to compensate for certain placement/room interaction I presume.

With the Low damping setting, the Rythmik had more output below 40Hz than my VTF3.2 at the max extension setting (max output has different curve from 20-40Hz, but drops off quickly around 22-22Hz instead of going deeper to 17Hz~ with max extension).

The before after graphs also looked pretty similar when looking at the spectral decay. I figure this is because we were just running a straight test tone, and the servo helps more with real-world material, bursts of energy, not a simple test tone, so it wouldn't necessarily manifest as much on a simple freq response or spectral decay graph.

Because those test tones were done with the eq settings tailored for my own sub, I created a new filter set on the BFD for the Rythmik (set to 14Hz and Low damping). I basically took my own filter set as a base, changed a few filters, added a few more to flatten out a spot around 30-40Hz that had more output than my sub, and got a nice and smooth end result curve that resembled my Hsu. Again, that's just for the flatness of the graph. Again, the eq'd curve showed a much better spectral decay response. For the range of 30-40Hz, I used two cuts that attacked two separate peaks that appeared at 300ms but looked more like a wide peak at lower response time, and this really really worked well.


So, on to the listening tests... I'll list my opinions and observations, and I hope he doesn't mind me quoting anything he said as well.

To clarify, these tests were with my bass traps in the corner, the new filter set on the eq specific for the Rythmik, and the gain on the Rythmik matched to be the same SPL as my own sub (based on the REW graphs). With Low damping, the Rythmik had a few more dB/power under 40Hz, with a few dB less at around 20Hz I believe (at least in the graphs at 80-85dB - that says nothing about headroom and linearity when pushing 100dB + for movies).

He had heard my sub before when he came over to check out my speakers. I have Ascend 340s, and he brought some Aperions he had bought but wanted to test before deciding to keep or send back. He liked my Ascends and ended up with Sierras. Anyway, he had heard my sub before for mostly music and some simple movie stuff before, because it was more about testing the speakers. Yesterday we didn't do any listening tests with my sub, because he wanted to see how his new sub could sound when properly set up. He wasn't sure about how it was performing in his home, but he knew he may not have it set up optimally, and hasn't been able to turn up the master volume much, which makes a big difference.

We started with some music selections of mine.

First I picked music with good mid-bass for blending -- good bass guitar and drums. A couple I remember were Cake's "Fashion Nugget" (excellent bass guitars and drums), Yeah Yeah Yeahs "Show Your Bones" (great drums), and a Paramore "unplugged" recording on my DVR with excellent sound, dynamics, clear drums/bass, and excellent vocals. All throughout, the Rythmik blended seamlessly with the 340SE mains, rounding out the bottom end and providing excellent and clear bass without calling attention to itself. I would switch between 2-channel with speakers at full-range, and 2.1. With the sub on, it still sounded like it was coming from the speakers, and was just a fuller sound. Again, that's with the sub directly behind the couch -- and with a 70Hz crossover (which I arrived at previously for my own sub through listening tests with music). Without doing back-and-forth testing, it is hard to say how much an improvement the Rythmik was over my Hsu. But going from memory, and not being in my own normal "center seat" position, the Rythmik still seemed to be cleaner and punchier.

Then we tried Fiona Apple's "Tidal" album, specifically the opening track "Sleep to Dream" and track 6 "The First Taste." Both have excellent, deep, powerful bass. My Hsu plays these very well, but specifically with these tracks it was clear that the Rythmik was noticeably cleaner and more powerful than my Hsu. I knew instantly that the Rythmik was outperforming my sub. With my sub, the bass traps, and eq, I get a very tight sound with lots of detail in the bass. But with the Rythmik there was much more control evidenced by more noticeable detail in the sound of the bass. And it still sounded like it was coming from the speakers and part of the sound, and not from the sub itself (same with my own sub, but still an improvement).

So with music, the Rythmik was definitely an excellent performer. On par or noticeably better than my own sub, depending on the material and how much the material (and volume level) pushed and tested the sub. We listened at pretty spirited levels, so the extra clarity and headroom helped the Rythmik shine.


Then it was on to some good movie demo material...

The first one I put in was the most recent Die Hard movie, the scene where McClain gets the kid from his apartment and the guy starts shooting from the parking garage across the alley. It has excellent bass, powerful and quick, with lots of low bass. We watched at about -8 on the dial I think, and watched up until after McClain shoots the extinguisher and launches the guy out the window. It sounded excellent, but not necessarily noticeably "way better" than my own sub.

I forgot some of the order, but we also tried...

Tokyo Drift on HD-DVD -- scene where they get the green Hulk car out of the garage, and drive up to the parking garage. The bass here is loud, powerful, and deep. It seemed a bit clearer and definitely more SPL than my own sub. I think I had it at around -10 to -8. With the low bass, we could see the 15" driver working hard, but maintaining its composure and not sounding sloppy.

Another one we tried was Kung Fu Panda on Blu-ray, the Skidoosh scene. I started with some of the back-and-forth fighting in the streets (where it starts with the tickling and bouncing). The Rythmik sounded great, and was tight and clear. A bit of an improvement over my Hsu, but not a whole lot. Then came the skidoosh. I've watched this scene many times with my sub, so when the Rythmik played it my jaw was dropped. At about -8 I think, it was louder and more powerful, clearer with more detail (with the extra volume). After this I noted to him that on most material and at lower volumes, a good sub will do just fine. It's the material like this, at this volume (and like the Fiona Apple tracks above) that "separate the men from the boys". Up until that point, I had been impressed with the clarity and tightness, but that scene showed that this sub can do power and output as well.

At this point I'll note that I shared with him that there was a lot of bass, and it was extremely tight and controlled. Some people might think there is less bass because you don't have the boomy overhang (thanks to the servo, plus the eqing and the bass traps).

I put in Cloverfield, for the first surprise scene at the party (on the balcony) then on the roof. Clear, controlled bass with definitely more output than my own sub. Very nice. He hadn't seen it before, so I didn't go to any other scenes so as to not spoil any surprises.

Next I put in War of the Worlds in DTS. I showed him the lightning strike scene at the beginning, which sounded fantastic, although not too much of a noticeable improvement over my sub because it wasn't pushing the sub as hard. I didn't do the emergence scene because he hadn't seen the movie and I didn't want to spoil his first watch-through. I know it would have been another "separate the men from the boys" scene, though. I said he had to rent both Cloverfield on BD and WotW on DVD-DTS now that he has the Sierras and the Rythmik.

Then it was Iron Man on BD, the opening ambush scene with gunshots and explosions. Great sounding bass, but not "separate the men from the boys" level.

Then I popped in the LFE demo disc (#5 or so) from the AVS Forum thread. I was saving The Haunting scene in DTS for last. Before we go to that, I played a few scenes off the disc, including Darla tapping the tank in Finding Nemo. With my own sub, before bass traps and eq, this scene made me a little worried about the sub and stressing it too much. With traps and eq, the bass is tight and controlled and you it sounds fine, just massive booming power. With the Rythmik, it sounded great, and there was more power and definition to the sound.

Also on the disc was the opening fight scene from Master & Commander. He hadn't seen it in a while. The opening cannon shots were clean and powerful, although the one on this disc wasn't in the better DTS version. Not as impressive in DD.

And last but definitely not least, the one I wanted to end with. The Haunting in DTS, from the demo disc. Even moreso than the Darla tapping scene, without eq, this scene can be scary for your sub moreso than scary for the content. But with the eq, it sounds amazing with my sub. I started the scene, and he was impressed with the first bit of loud bass. I told him that was nothing but a simple foreboding of what's to come. When the big bass rumblings hit, I knew the Rythmik was putting out a lot more SPL, and cleaner and tighter, than my own sub.

Overall, it seemed the Rythmik had a good 3-5 extra dB of output than mine. Some of that could be that the sub is more linear in the low bass than my sub when pushed to 105-108dB peaks.


Conclusion...

I was definitely impressed with the sub, and would not hesitate to choose it whenever I am able to upgrade down the road (hopefully sooner than later). I like listening to music, and it is definitely an excellent performer there, especially when properly set up with eq (my room is pretty bad), and with bass traps to tighten the sound. And for movies, wowsers. Boy, would I love to have this sub... Mine performs great for the majority of stuff, but there are times when I know there's more that I'm missing. And I heard it with the Rythmik.

He was also very impressed with his sub in my room and setup. He said he's never experienced anything like that with the sub in his own room, and now knows that's partly due to setup, and partly due to turning it up to higher volumes where the bass becomes more powerful and more visceral. He's going to work with REW to find a good location for it, maybe next to his couch, and is definitely thinking about adding an eq depending on how his response looks with REW. He was worried that the sub might not be "enough" before, but I seem to have been able to convince him otherwise with the demo at my place.


A few weeks ago he offered to let me borrow it while he was out of town, and I declined because I knew I would get spoiled with it and not be able to go back to my own sub. After listening to it for 2 hours yesterday, I told him I'm glad I didn't borrow it because it definitely would have spoiled me.

Remember that my Hsu VTF3 Mk2 is still an excellent sub, and performs great in my setup. The Rythmik outperformed it but is 2x the price -- mine is now $500 for basic finish. But to me, the Rythmik 15 is definitely worth the extra money. I've squeezed the last bit of performance out of my Hsu with bass traps and eq, and it does an amazing job for what it is. I'd say it performs better than ID subs that cost 2x as much in rooms and setups where people don't take the time to set up properly (bad response and lots of room boom). Under the same setup -- bass traps and proper eq -- the Rythmik was head and shoulders above my sub with output. It was also tighter and more controlled, although I didn't do head-to-head tests, it's more based on my memory.
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post #656 of 17253 Old 05-02-2010, 02:47 PM
 
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Cyberbri: If you did your tests with 14hz extension and low damping, I think you should redo those tests with it set to hi damping instead and then EQ it out a bit. Yep you may lose a few db under 20-30hz(un EQ'd), but it tightens up the low frequency extension. GIves it a "dry" sound, but most people don't realize, thats how undistorted controlled bass should sound. In my bedorrom I run 2 D15SE's and the room is only 16x14 roughly, but the bass impact and detail is incredible and the drivers are barely moving, and the gains are set VERY LOW.
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post #657 of 17253 Old 05-02-2010, 03:13 PM
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Very nice write up Cyberbri.
Thanks for taking the time to share.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #658 of 17253 Old 05-02-2010, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

Cyberbri: If you did your tests with 14hz extension and low damping, I think you should redo those tests with it set to hi damping instead and then EQ it out a bit. Yep you may lose a few db under 20-30hz(un EQ'd), but it tightens up the low frequency extension. GIves it a "dry" sound, but most people don't realize, thats how undistorted controlled bass should sound. In my bedorrom I run 2 D15SE's and the room is only 16x14 roughly, but the bass impact and detail is incredible and the drivers are barely moving, and the gains are set VERY LOW.

He was only here with his sub for about 3 hours total. The tests were just to compare baseline performance with my sub as a benchmark, and to see what the several different settings were doing. When he gets into tweaking the sub for his room, he'll be able to see what works best for his room.

In your small room with 2 of the subs, you can live without the extra dB of Low damping.
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post #659 of 17253 Old 05-02-2010, 04:12 PM
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Regardless of how anyone evaluates anything here the peanut gallery never seems to appreciate it and immediately tells the evaluator they should redo the test with xyz substituted for abc.
You did a nice eval and wrote a nice report, thanks for taking the time to post it here.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #660 of 17253 Old 05-02-2010, 06:15 PM
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Conclusion...I was definitely impressed with the sub....

Thanks for the excellent writeup. Much appreciated!

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