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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

monomer's Avatar monomer
11:25 AM Liked: 11
post #91 of 17429
01-24-2010 | Posts: 1,767
Joined: Apr 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

I found the following sweep in wav format: 20, 25, 31.5, 40, 50, 63, 80, 100, 125 Hz.

I ripped them with Zune and downloaded to my Zune HD. When I first ran them, I had a significant drop at 50 Hz, but them I realized that I had my Polk Lsi15's running. I unplugged those and the drop mostly went away. So I went in the receiver's setup (Onkyo 807) and upped the cross-over to 80 Hz (although the LSi's do a good job of mid-bass). Unfortunately, that didn't keep the Lsi's from playing lower that 80Hz - it seemed to raise the HPF, but not to 80Hz. I'll play some more today, but right now I am low at 20Hz and pretty flat from 25 Hz up to around 60Hz.

I suggest in addition to single freq tones you also try an actual sweep so you get an idea of the broadness (or narrow) of the nulls you are hearing. You can go here and download an MP3 file of a slow 10-200Hz sweep from Bass Mekanik for $.89 (its #109 on my screen listing)... or you go here and install SigJenny (a freeware signal generator) and play and create your sweep wav files. Was that 50Hz drop interaction between your mains and the sub or just your mains (between each other)? Try only the mains by themselves to determine if it is due to placement of the mains. Also was this 50Hz drop after you ran Audyssey (proper phasing between sub and mains were set)? Its important to remember that a cross-over is not a "brick-wall" but only identifies the mid (50/50) cross-over point. Your mains will still have a significant effect (albeit decreasing) down to an octave below the cross-over, just as the sub will have an effect (also decreasing in significance) to around an octave above the cross-over. If you set you crossover to 80Hz then the region of cross-over is ~40-160Hz. Have you tried the sub in another location yet?
enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio
01:16 PM Liked: 181
post #92 of 17429
01-24-2010 | Posts: 1,227
Joined: Aug 2005
Hi Brian, I live in Houston. It is possible to pick up a pair of D15SE subwoofers directly in to your workshop?

Thanks
lewdogg's Avatar lewdogg
01:18 PM Liked: 10
post #93 of 17429
01-24-2010 | Posts: 286
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

1) shipping delay:
I have to apologize for the customers whose sub delivery got delayed this week. I was trying to finish a few tasks so that my suppliers can get them done before their upcoming 2 weeks break starting Feb 7th. If I missed the deadline, the whole shipment will be delay by at least 2 weeks and more likely 3 weeks.

2) availability
In terms of enclosure availability, I am basically out of enclosures and drivers to build F12 subwoofers. Both of them will be available in 6 weeks. Also I am out of black oak F15 enclosures. Black matte F15's are available.

Is this common with all online subwoofer manufacturers? It seems Rythmik, SVS, Epik, and eD are all backordered for many of their subwoofers. Is last year's inventory about gone so most places are out of stock?
monomer's Avatar monomer
01:32 PM Liked: 11
post #94 of 17429
01-24-2010 | Posts: 1,767
Joined: Apr 2002
My guess is that when you are small and have to use your own money up-front to purchase components in batches large enough to warrant a pricing break (a long enough production run to make it worthwhile for the supplier to tool up) you are guessing at what is going to be in demand in the coming months and if your guess was a little off, you will sell out of one thing before having sold many of the other things to make back enough money to quickly place another large order with your suppliers... so there are delays. Plus, I would assume one would like to reduce their stock down by year's end to make doing taxes and inventorying easier. But hey, this is all just pure guessing on my part... maybe its as simple as everyone got an ID sub or two for Christmas. Anyway, just thought I'd spend some time here speculating as long as you are waiting on a more accurate response from Brian.
lewdogg's Avatar lewdogg
02:59 PM Liked: 10
post #95 of 17429
01-24-2010 | Posts: 286
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

My guess is that when you are small and have to use your own money up-front to purchase components in batches large enough to warrant a pricing break (a long enough production run to make it worthwhile for the supplier to tool up) you are guessing at what is going to be in demand in the coming months and if your guess was a little off, you will sell out of one thing before having sold many of the other things to make back enough money to quickly place another large order with your suppliers... so there are delays. Plus, I would assume one would like to reduce their stock down by year's end to make doing taxes and inventorying easier. But hey, this is all just pure guessing on my part... maybe its as simple as everyone got an ID sub or two for Christmas. Anyway, just thought I'd spend some time here speculating as long as you are waiting on a more accurate response from Brian.

Was my assumption as well...just thought it was odd that it seems to be the same for many others, not just Rythmik. Not being in the market for a sub until now, I wasn't sure if this was common-knowledge at this time of the year or if it was something else.

Thanks for your help.
Rythmik's Avatar Rythmik
05:49 PM Liked: 86
post #96 of 17429
01-24-2010 | Posts: 1,860
Joined: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

My guess is that when you are small and have to use your own money up-front to purchase components in batches large enough to warrant a pricing break (a long enough production run to make it worthwhile for the supplier to tool up) you are guessing at what is going to be in demand in the coming months and if your guess was a little off, you will sell out of one thing before having sold many of the other things to make back enough money to quickly place another large order with your suppliers... so there are delays. Plus, I would assume one would like to reduce their stock down by year's end to make doing taxes and inventorying easier. But hey, this is all just pure guessing on my part... maybe its as simple as everyone got an ID sub or two for Christmas. Anyway, just thought I'd spend some time here speculating as long as you are waiting on a more accurate response from Brian.

I have to say we are all at the hands of this unpredictable economy that some months are slow and some months are better. In our case, it is a planning error and bad habit of perfectionist. I learnt a lesson from it and I will do better next time. Don't read too much into it.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani
06:03 PM Liked: 1137
post #97 of 17429
01-24-2010 | Posts: 20,211
Joined: Oct 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

You can place them a few inches apart. I recommend against puting them feet apart.

Well, there goes my Rythmik coffee table idea. Time to come up with a plan B.
tegage's Avatar tegage
08:25 AM Liked: 12
post #98 of 17429
01-25-2010 | Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Was that 50Hz drop interaction between your mains and the sub or just your mains (between each other)?

I'm not sure since I did not run the sweeps with just the mains. I will do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

was this 50Hz drop after you ran Audyssey (proper phasing between sub and mains were set)?

Yes, I had run Audyssey

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Its important to remember that a cross-over is not a "brick-wall" but only identifies the mid (50/50) cross-over point. Your mains will still have a significant effect (albeit decreasing) down to an octave below the cross-over, just as the sub will have an effect (also decreasing in significance) to around an octave above the cross-over. If you set you crossover to 80Hz then the region of cross-over is ~40-160Hz. Have you tried the sub in another location yet?

I figured that was likely the case. I've been using a SPL meter for years to set speaker levels, but I've never run sweep before so this has been a learning experience for me. I am making progress, however, and the sound has noticeably improved.

I did try a second location, but got similar results. I'll have to make/buy a long sub cable before I can try more locations.

Also, I think I'll run Audyssey once more and take some measurements since I am not sure that I hadn't adjusted the cross-overs subsequent to the last run.
FlavioSupra's Avatar FlavioSupra
04:12 PM Liked: 10
post #99 of 17429
01-28-2010 | Posts: 51
Joined: Oct 2004
I am contemplating replacing my dual SVS PB13-Ultra subs with dual Rythmik D15SE subs because I need some more floor space and my wife thinks the SVS boxes (as she calls them) are ugly. The D15SE has a much smaller footprint then the PB13-Ultra (in rosenut) and the gloss black will match better with the Mythos speakers.

How much output will I lose at the bottom end?
My room is appr. 8000 cu.ft.
My main speakers are Def Tech Mythos ST playing as full range speakers.
For movies I always listen at reference level and when I listen to music I also like to play it loud.
lewdogg's Avatar lewdogg
07:12 PM Liked: 10
post #100 of 17429
01-28-2010 | Posts: 286
Joined: Dec 2007
Anyone have a clue when the new series of amps will be released?
jpmst3's Avatar jpmst3
09:03 PM Liked: 224
post #101 of 17429
01-28-2010 | Posts: 8,333
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioSupra View Post


How much output will I lose at the bottom end?
My room is appr. 8000 cu.ft.
My main speakers are Def Tech Mythos ST playing as full range speakers.
For movies I always listen at reference level and when I listen to music I also like to play it loud.

You will lose some significant output down low. Above 30Hz it should be close, but you can't compete against larger ported boxes with small sealed.
panzer's Avatar panzer
07:33 AM Liked: 16
post #102 of 17429
01-29-2010 | Posts: 616
Joined: Aug 2001
I have a question on the d15se, looking at the back on the websight, I don't see a life input, I will be using my receiver sub out, wich input on the sub would I use, and what would be the settings on the back of sub, thanks
rick240's Avatar rick240
07:38 AM Liked: 51
post #103 of 17429
01-29-2010 | Posts: 3,551
Joined: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzer View Post

I have a question on the d15se, looking at the back on the websight, I don't see a life input, I will be using my receiver sub out, wich input on the sub would I use, and what would be the settings on the back of sub, thanks

Either L or R line level input.
polarbare's Avatar polarbare
12:26 AM Liked: 10
post #104 of 17429
02-02-2010 | Posts: 50
Joined: Jun 2006
Quick question - been reading around for a bit, and I can't seem to find a definite answer, is there any reason to go with the F12SE vs the F15SE (or vice versa)? Is the F12 any "faster" and better for music (as opposed to home theater) and the F15 just able to reach lower? Or is it merely a size constraint/room compatibility/cost issue?

One other thing - the F15SE is only available through the Rythmic website, whereas the F12SE is only available through the Ascend website. Just an indication of supply at each location?

Last edit I presume the F12SE's on the Ascend website have the A370PEQ amplifier.
cschang's Avatar cschang
01:58 AM Liked: 83
post #105 of 17429
02-02-2010 | Posts: 14,789
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbare View Post

Quick question - been reading around for a bit, and I can't seem to find a definite answer, is there any reason to go with the F12SE vs the F15SE (or vice versa)? Is the F12 any "faster" and better for music (as opposed to home theater) and the F15 just able to reach lower? Or is it merely a size constraint/room compatibility/cost issue?

One other thing - the F15SE is only available through the Rythmic website, whereas the F12SE is only available through the Ascend website. Just an indication of supply at each location?

Last edit I presume the F12SE's on the Ascend website have the A370PEQ amplifier.

The difference between the two is essentially just their output capabilities. Some have said that the F12 has a bit better sound quality.

The Ascend site needs to be updated. Any Rythmik sub is available via Ascend and vice versa.
Upgrader's Avatar Upgrader
09:12 PM Liked: 10
post #106 of 17429
02-02-2010 | Posts: 187
Joined: Oct 2009
At http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html it says that all products are on back-order. The post on this thread by Rythmik says they will have stock in 6 weeks. Does that mean to check back around mid-March?
powbob01's Avatar powbob01
01:51 PM Liked: 10
post #107 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 2010
Everything looks to be in stock now.
rick240's Avatar rick240
02:07 PM Liked: 51
post #108 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 3,551
Joined: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by powbob01 View Post

Everything looks to be in stock now.

From the Rythmik site on the F12 page

Quote:


We are currently out of these subwoofers. The new ones will be available in early March.


stevec325's Avatar stevec325
03:22 PM Liked: 13
post #109 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 3,231
Joined: Nov 2006
Looking at the freq response chart for the F12 signature, it looks like it really drops off above 80Hz. And, it's way down at/above 100Hz. Any thoughts as to how that will integrate with mains crossed at 80Hz? I was under the impression that you needed "usable" output up to around 140-160Hz, even crossing at 80Hz to overlap a full octave.

Thoughts? Comments?
rick240's Avatar rick240
04:20 PM Liked: 51
post #110 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 3,551
Joined: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Looking at the freq response chart for the F12 signature, it looks like it really drops off above 80Hz. And, it's way down at/above 100Hz. Any thoughts as to how that will integrate with mains crossed at 80Hz? I was under the impression that you needed "usable" output up to around 140-160Hz, even crossing at 80Hz to overlap a full octave.

Thoughts? Comments?

My reading of that chart says that it is down 3-4 db at 100Hz and down about 10db at 160 Hz.
tegage's Avatar tegage
04:29 PM Liked: 12
post #111 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

I suggest in addition to single freq tones you also try an actual sweep so you get an idea of the broadness (or narrow) of the nulls you are hearing. You can go here and download an MP3 file of a slow 10-200Hz sweep from Bass Mekanik for $.89 (its #109 on my screen listing)... or you go here and install SigJenny (a freeware signal generator) and play and create your sweep wav files. Was that 50Hz drop interaction between your mains and the sub or just your mains (between each other)? Try only the mains by themselves to determine if it is due to placement of the mains. Also was this 50Hz drop after you ran Audyssey (proper phasing between sub and mains were set)? Its important to remember that a cross-over is not a "brick-wall" but only identifies the mid (50/50) cross-over point. Your mains will still have a significant effect (albeit decreasing) down to an octave below the cross-over, just as the sub will have an effect (also decreasing in significance) to around an octave above the cross-over. If you set you crossover to 80Hz then the region of cross-over is ~40-160Hz. Have you tried the sub in another location yet?

OK, I moved the mains a bit (not much), turned off the PEQ and set the bass extension at 14/high and then I re-ran Audessey.

The results seem much better - in fact I'm wondering if during my initial setup I got something out of order. Anyway - with the sub and mains, it looks like this:

20Hz, 0
25Hz, +1
31.5Hz, +2
40Hz,+7
50Hz, +4
63Hz, +9
80Hz, +8
100Hz,+15
125Hz, -3

With only the sub, it looks like this:
20Hz, -1
25Hz, 0
31.5Hz, 0
40Hz, 0
50Hz, -4
63Hz, -15
80Hz, -9
100Hz,-20
125Hz, -25

So, this time around things are reasonably flat except at 100, which is solely due to the Lsi15s (Mains).

The whole system is sounding very good to me. I've been listening to a lot of music, and the sound is incredible. To be fair, I added the Lsi15s at the same time and I think they are incredible, but prior to this change, I never used my old Velodyne for music - it sounded too mushy - the Rythmik sounds good.

I watched Taken the other night and was pleased with what I could "feel" during a couple of the action scenes. I will report more back as I watch more movies.
powbob01's Avatar powbob01
05:38 PM Liked: 10
post #112 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

From the Rythmik site on the F12 page

When I looked before instead of the order now button there was an out of stock quote. I guess that changed.
mookie b's Avatar mookie b
06:54 PM Liked: 18
post #113 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 807
Joined: Jul 2006
Did anyone here compare the F12 with the SVS SB12?
stevec325's Avatar stevec325
08:10 PM Liked: 13
post #114 of 17429
02-03-2010 | Posts: 3,231
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

My reading of that chart says that it is down 3-4 db at 100Hz and down about 10db at 160 Hz.

Does that seem OK for drop off at the upper end?
Iain-'s Avatar Iain-
08:56 AM Liked: 49
post #115 of 17429
02-04-2010 | Posts: 520
Joined: Jul 2009
I'm keen to see how the new 370PEQ amplifiers, supposedly with extended frequency range to 180 HZ, will integrate with GR Research 12" driver (F12G).
monomer's Avatar monomer
09:56 AM Liked: 11
post #116 of 17429
02-04-2010 | Posts: 1,767
Joined: Apr 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

OK, I moved the mains a bit (not much), turned off the PEQ and set the bass extension at 14/high and then I re-ran Audessey.

The results seem much better - in fact I'm wondering if during my initial setup I got something out of order. Anyway - with the sub and mains, it looks like this:

20Hz, 0
25Hz, +1
31.5Hz, +2
40Hz,+7
50Hz, +4
63Hz, +9
80Hz, +8
100Hz,+15
125Hz, -3

With only the sub, it looks like this:
20Hz, -1
25Hz, 0
31.5Hz, 0
40Hz, 0
50Hz, -4
63Hz, -15
80Hz, -9
100Hz,-20
125Hz, -25

So, this time around things are reasonably flat except at 100, which is solely due to the Lsi15s (Mains).

The whole system is sounding very good to me. I've been listening to a lot of music, and the sound is incredible. To be fair, I added the Lsi15s at the same time and I think they are incredible, but prior to this change, I never used my old Velodyne for music - it sounded too mushy - the Rythmik sounds good.

I watched Taken the other night and was pleased with what I could "feel" during a couple of the action scenes. I will report more back as I watch more movies.

Did you remember to apply the correction factors to your SPL readings above?... if not and its a RS meter, then your response is even flatter than you think. There's a chance that 100Hz peak can be attenuated by further 'tweaking' of the speaker positions (meaning the mains only) if they are interacting with each other (due to distance both between them and to you) and if not then it must be cause by a room reflection or a mode and some room acoustical treatments might then be in order. Looks like you've got a good starting point and are now beginning to hear what the 'real' Rythmik sounds like.
tegage's Avatar tegage
11:12 AM Liked: 12
post #117 of 17429
02-04-2010 | Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Did you remember to apply the correction factors to your SPL readings above?...

It is a RS meter, but I wasn't aware that there are correction values.

A quick google uncovered them, the with the corrections, I have:

20Hz, +7.5
25Hz, +6
31.5Hz, +5
40Hz,+9.5
50Hz, +6.5
63Hz, +10.5
80Hz, +9.5
100Hz,+17
125Hz, -2.5

Other than the spike at 100 and drop at 125, am I correct that in typical home setup, what I have up to 100 Hz is pretty good/normal?
monomer's Avatar monomer
11:59 AM Liked: 11
post #118 of 17429
02-04-2010 | Posts: 1,767
Joined: Apr 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

It is a RS meter, but I wasn't aware that there are correction values.

A quick google uncovered them, the with the corrections, I have:

20Hz, +7.5
25Hz, +6
31.5Hz, +5
40Hz,+9.5
50Hz, +6.5
63Hz, +10.5
80Hz, +9.5
100Hz,+17
125Hz, -2.5

Other than the spike at 100 and drop at 125, am I correct that in typical home setup, what I have up to 100 Hz is pretty good/normal?

Though you can use EQing to flatten it even more those types of EQs work on one "sweet spot" only, which is great if you listen solo from the same position only because you can dial it in just for that one location without caring about what the effect is upon any other listening position in the room... HOWEVER, if you listen to music together with others or watch movies with friends and family or like to change positions when listening music or watching movies then EQing for a single "sweet spot" just doesn't get it. I like Audyssey because it tries to find the best compromise across all listening positions (considers the effect on a larger listening area)... creating sort of a "sweet area" so to speak. Under those conditions, YES! your results are quite good as your ears have already verified and you should be proud. However, this IS 'the hobby of audio'... so the nitpicking is never done... all we ever succeed at doing is raising our standards to the next level. Once your pocketbook has recovered sufficiently, it will be time to visit forums on acoustical room treatments...
mattldm's Avatar mattldm
07:51 PM Liked: 10
post #119 of 17429
02-08-2010 | Posts: 538
Joined: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

Hey Brian,

I've been really enjoying my F12.

Have you ever thought of going the other size direction and building a F10 for those with sub size constraints?

I agree! I would be interested in a smaller version, maybe a 10"

In fact right now im thinking of DIY'ing a 10-12" sub with the A370PEQ amp just to have a smaller sub to fit where I want it to go!
porksoda's Avatar porksoda
02:14 PM Liked: 10
post #120 of 17429
02-25-2010 | Posts: 298
Joined: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

Did anyone here compare the F12 with the SVS SB12?

I would be interested in comments to this as well... and throw in paradigm sub 12 / 15
Tags: Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer

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