Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 445 - AVS Forum
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread
klh1790's Avatar klh1790 04:11 PM 01-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

Just watched first 3 minutes of The Wolverine. The A-Bomb scene is insane.

1 FV15HP on -15 MV made me think my house was going to come down. It was awesome!!

Kids came running down yelling dishes were falling upstairs and I needed to stop it.

Very cool that such an articulate well behaved sub can get so crazy.

I can't wait to do that. Ordering one next week to replace a DT Supercube I. Elysium might be the first movie though. Tons of LFE that my SC1 just can't reach.

Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 07:31 PM 01-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

I recommend you to try this method to flatten the graph@ the crossover point if you don't know about it already.
http://www.avsforum.com/attachments/74825

Per this article, it makes lots of sense and here is my result from following the article


I get some work to do @ the crossover point (80hz) but it is fun stuff.

I was able to play and change my Audyssey subs distances resulting in a much smoother response at my 80hz crossover point (Yeap, got rid of that huge 15db plus dip). Here is the proof:
Green: Center speaker and subs measurement with subs distances as set by Audyssey
Blue: Center and subs measurement with subs distances reduced by 2.6' for each sub.
Dark gray: Subs only measurement set by Audyssey
Pink: Subs only measurement after each sub distance being reduced by 2.6' from Audyssey setting.


aboroth00's Avatar aboroth00 09:11 PM 01-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

I was able to play and change my Audyssey subs distances resulting in a much smoother response at my 80hz crossover point (Yeap, got rid of that huge 15db plus dip). Here is the proof:
Green: Center speaker and subs measurement with subs distances as set by Audyssey
Blue: Center and subs measurement with subs distances reduced by 2.6' for each sub.
Dark gray: Subs only measurement set by Audyssey
Pink: Subs only measurement after each sub distance being reduced by 2.6' from Audyssey setting.


Looking good! That phase cancellation seems pretty much gone. I assume Audyssey lets you adjust the sub distances independently so you can adjust phase independently?
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 09:43 PM 01-20-2014
^^ yes. Thanks much.
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 12:00 AM 01-21-2014
And for you, Bee- 1/6 smoothing comparing subs distances set by Audyssey and subs distances tweak for my Center and subs.
Pink: Audyssey distances subs setting
Green: Tweaked subs distances smile.gif


BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 04:38 AM 01-21-2014
Very nice. When I tweak the subwoofer distances, our location, we get little to no change. I'm envious. Again, very nice.

How does it sound when listening to a blu-ray disc?

When the new blu-ray player is installed, I'll do some more playing with graphs and check out the distance setting for the center channel.
Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 05:36 AM 01-21-2014
damn I wish i could move one of my subs off the front wall...I mean Im pretty flat, but nothing like that cowboys!!!
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 06:11 AM 01-21-2014
^^ and the tactile feeling with one in the back is insane. I had good tactile feeling with both subs up front as I am on suspended floor but I have a lot more now plus as you said, a flatter graph with one front and one back. Thanks.
Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 07:01 AM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ and the tactile feeling with one in the back is insane. I had good tactile feeling with both subs up front as I am on suspended floor but I have a lot more now plus as you said, a flatter graph with one front and one back. Thanks.

yeah I'm sure as I was doing a couple measurements last night to try the sub distance tweak (which was quickly nixed by the wife as she had a migraine upstairs) and I was sitting next to one of the subs and HOLY crap!!! like you said....i get tons of tactile feel now with my suspended floor but near field is INSANE!
ahmedreda's Avatar ahmedreda 07:10 AM 01-21-2014
How far is the back sub from the listening position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ and the tactile feeling with one in the back is insane. I had good tactile feeling with both subs up front as I am on suspended floor but I have a lot more now plus as you said, a flatter graph with one front and one back. Thanks.

Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 08:29 AM 01-21-2014
^^ 7.6 feet from MLP (not really nearfield) but it is directly behind my 4 seats recliner with the front driver about a foot firing toward one of the 4 seats (not my seat or my MLP)
As you can see from the picture, my seat is where the mic stand is.


Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 08:33 AM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

HOLY crap!!! like you said....i get tons of tactile feel now with my suspended floor but near field is INSANE!
HOLY crap is right smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
I was watching the first 30 minutes of that Ninja shadow of a tear last night at -15MV and it kicked my butt hard. Not sure if I ever can stand listening at reference with this set up frown.gif
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 08:42 AM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Very nice. When I tweak the subwoofer distances, our location, we get little to no change.
Make sure you completely back out of your Denon menu after changing subs distances for the changes to take effect. Lots of people in the REW thread didn't know about this; therefore, no changes after measuring. Your REW graph should change quite a bit after changing subs distances by a foot or two.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 08:42 AM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Green: Tweaked subs distances smile.gif

What are you doing when you tweak the subwoofer distances. When I tweak the subwoofer distances a few feet, nothing to very little happens and when something does happen, it's to the bad, not the good.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 08:44 AM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Make sure you completely back out of your Denon menu after changing subs distances for the changes to take effect. Lots of people in the REW thread didn't know about this; therefore, no changes after measuring. Your REW graph should change quite a bit after changing subs distances by a foot or two.

Not arguing, I back out of what ever menu I'm fussing with, and REW shows changes taking place. I'll try backing out of the menu system completely and see what takes place.
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 08:52 AM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

What are you doing when you tweak the subwoofer distances. When I tweak the subwoofer distances a few feet, nothing to very little happens and when something does happen, it's to the bad, not the good.
I suggest you read this link I posted earlier
http://www.avsforum.com/attachments/74825
In my case, I was able to achieve my posted graph by reducing each sub distance by 2.6'. YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Not arguing, I back out of what ever menu I'm fussing with, and REW shows changes taking place. I'll try backing out of the menu system completely and see what takes place.
Then should be fine then. I just have to back out to where it says manual setting.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 09:27 AM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

I suggest you read this link I posted earlier
http://www.avsforum.com/attachments/74825

Thanks for reposting the link. On antihistamines, the last thing my brain wants to do, is work.

...tongue.gif
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 11:53 AM 01-21-2014
One other thing I noticed was when setting to 14/lo and run Audessey, REW graph shows roll of at about 15hz. Flip it to 14/hi and redo Audyssey calibration, REW graph shows roll off about 10hz. At least in my room, that is what it behaves. Anyone notices that?
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 12:05 PM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

One other thing I noticed was when setting to 14/lo and run Audessey, REW graph shows roll of at about 15hz. Flip it to 14/hi and redo Audyssey calibration, REW graph shows roll off about 10hz. At least in my room, that is what it behaves. Anyone notices that?

We have roll off at 12.40 Hz. Our room has pretty much, zero gain.
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 12:08 PM 01-21-2014
^^ with 14/hi setting?
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 12:11 PM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ with 14/hi setting?

Yes. Just checked, 14/HI.

Room is 23' long by 15' wide, cathedral ceiling, a 10' average height, with large openings to other spaces that are large enough to extend the measurements, which would further guarantee limited chance of room gain.

Currently in the process of adding a universal blu-ray player to the system that hopefully will expand the dynamic range of the reference level play of the sound system. Once up and running, I'll do more measurements and regarding distance settings, see if what you suggest, aids the measurement graph.

-
dominguez1's Avatar dominguez1 01:21 PM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


We have roll off at 12.40 Hz. Our room has pretty much, zero gain.

Did your new receiver fix the early rolloff challenge you were having before? I believe you were rolling off at the 17hz range?

 

Have you posted your latest response? Curious more than anything. :)


BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 04:10 PM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Did your new receiver fix the early rolloff challenge you were having before? I believe you were rolling off at the 17hz range?

Have you posted your latest response? Curious more than anything. smile.gif

Yes, it seems the Anti-Mode 8033S II was the culprit regarding the early roll off. Unsmoothed graph below. At -6dB down from peak reading @ 30Hz, we're getting a room measurement of 11.31Hz.



Currently installing a new universal blu-ray player. Tomorrow, I'll play with the settings some more. Once finished with setup, I'll do a proper tape measure measurement of our living room for cubic footage and submit our room/system measurements to your ULF thread and apply for honorary membership listing. biggrin.gif

-
dominguez1's Avatar dominguez1 04:41 PM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Yes, it seems the Anti-Mode 8033S II was the culprit regarding the early roll off. Unsmoothed graph below. At -6dB down from peak reading @ 30Hz, we're getting a room measurement of 11.31Hz.



Currently installing a new universal blu-ray player. Tomorrow, I'll play with the settings some more. Once finished with setup, I'll do a proper tape measure measurement of our living room for cubic footage and submit our room/system measurements to your ULF thread and apply for honorary membership listing. biggrin.gif

-

Very nice bee! Congrats!

 

So, were you able to tell a difference in sound between this one and the early rolloff response? Or were they actually the same response, but antimode was masking the true response graphically?


BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 05:05 PM 01-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Very nice bee! Congrats!

Thanks! biggrin.gif

Quote:
So, were you able to tell a difference in sound between this one and the early rolloff response? Or were they actually the same response, but antimode was masking the true response graphically?

Anti-Mode wasn't masking the response, it was mechanically cutting it off with a 24dB roll off at 20Hz.

XT w/Anti-Mode:



XT32, no Anti-Mode:



To the right of the roll off, pretty much the same but a huge difference in low frequency rumble to the left of the original roll off.
Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 08:04 PM 01-21-2014
after much tweaking tonight this is as flat as i can get her:


Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 08:31 PM 01-21-2014
^^ can you post the graph before tweaking. That dip at your crossover is still there. What are the subs distances before and after tweak. Is this graph with minidsp engaged?
Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 08:39 PM 01-21-2014
No. I deleted them. :/

The subs were at 17.2 and 17.0

I tried all different distances and 14.2 and 14.0 was the best and yes dsp is engaged

Like I said before this tweak doesn't do much for my situation. Oh well
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 08:57 AM 01-22-2014
I posted the following in the REW thread but want to post it here as well.
I just want to give my opinion after following the Audyssey subs distances tweak as I was finally able to watch a couple movies. I did two tweaks/changes to my system: 1. Move one sub to right back room corner and leave the other one upfront toward the center of room instead of having both upfront by my main. 2. Follow the Audyssey subs distance tweak with great success. My room now is energized/pressurized with lots of great bass that cannot be localized and I now do have a lot more of the tactile feeling. Before, I can tell that my bass was front heavy. I really do enjoy my system much more than I ever had. I truly believe this great result is from both of my subs placement changes and the distances tweak, and perhaps also with the close mics Audyssey cal patterns (within 3" from MLP). For the first time I can say that I have graphs to back my statement up smile.gif. Dialogue is easy to hear without having to bump it up 2-3db like before. Front three blends so much nicer with my subs now; perhaps the reason for unlocalized bass regardless of having one sub kind of nearfield (as compared to before). I was afraid of being able to locate the sub near me, but I swear I could not (I was even looking at it from my LP). I usually listen at -10 MV but had to reduce to -15 as it was loud with strong deep bass coming from everywhere in my ~2600 ft^3 seal room. One more thing: Dual FV15hps ROCKs down to 10hz in my room with AUTHORITY - absolutely cannot be happier. smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif. And yes I listened to dual Captivators, 8 18" SI seal (at two different places), and three Triaxes at four different occasions so I kind of know how my dual stands up against the big boys.

Before:


After:




All graphs are unsmooth except where noted.

Subs only. Pink: before, Blue: after


1/6 smoothing of the above: Red: before, Green: after


Center and subs. Red: before tweak, Green: after tweak, Dark gray: subs only

Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 09:01 AM 01-22-2014
By the way, where is rcohen lately?
Tags: Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer
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