Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 475 - AVS Forum
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post #14221 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post

Can anyone suggest a decent x-over to use on my Acoustat Monitor 4 stats? They are full range, but still looking at adding a few F-12 subs. I want a good x-over, but not crazy money like some. Ideas?

The Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core will do a very good job in your system.

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

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post #14222 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 09:02 AM
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Thanks. Now I am wanting to relieve the stat panels of lets say below 60 or 80 hz. That would take a load off and want to shift the lower frequencies over to the subs. They are full range panels and trying to figure out how to utilize a x-over or a room correction-type device. However, not sure if $1K+ is a moderate price.
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post #14223 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

It's not the size of the woofer but the Rythmik servo system that isn't really designed for mid bass. I believe Rythmiks tend to start tailing off at a bit over 100 hertz so might not be ideal to use with tiny satellites. Having said this, most speakers with 6.5" drivers should be ok with an 80 or 100hz crossover.

Not quite correct. Rythmik are rated to 200 hz.

I run the following:
  • F12SE
  • KEF iQ30 - front
  • KEF iQ10 - rear

... and AVR LFE system crossover at 110 hz. Been like that for the past two years and sounds great. No LFE localisation issues, as F12SE is well integrated to system.

BTW, iQ30 have 6.5 inch woofers whilst iQ10 have 5.5 inch woofers.
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post #14224 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post

Can anyone suggest a decent x-over to use on my Acoustat Monitor 4 stats? They are full range, but still looking at adding a few F-12 subs. I want a good x-over, but not crazy money like some. Ideas?

You can get all sorts of crossovers from $10-$20 passives to $10k+ specialized units.

miniDSP ~ $100 - $300 depending on model and options -- you must be prepared to use their filter program to specify and program the unit
dbx 223s is an inexpensive pro unit (<$200 and the one I am currently using with my F12's and Magnepans)
dbx, Rane, and many other pro companies make crossovers from $150 to as much as you want to spend, analog and DSP (dbx4800 is one of the latter)
Behringer makes several DSP-based crossovers starting around $300 (I think, have not looked recently)
Marchand makes some really nice crossovers, passive or active, your choice, around $600 - $1200
Bryston makes an excellent crossover for around $3k.
There are numerous high-end crossover and room-correction units (DEQx, Trinnov, Harmon, etc.)

For a simple analog two-way crossover with great specs and performance the dbx223s/x (TRS and XLR versions available) is hard to beat. If you know the crossover frequencies you want the Marchand units provide great performance and build quality. The Bryston is a really good unit but IMO/IME not worth 10x the price of the dbx. I would probably get the Behringer or dbx DSP-based unit if I wanted more control and flexibility, but given you are going Rythmik which already has a nice set of controls (including continuous phase, very important for sub integration after a crossover), I would give the little dbx223 a whirl.

HTH, IMO, IME, YMMW, FWIWFM, etc. - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #14225 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 02:35 PM
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First off, no i don't work for Rythmik. I installed my new FV15HP yesterday. I knew when I upgraded from my Energy eXL-10 that my system would sound better. But wow my system sounds so so so much better!

Being somewhat of a novice at all this HT stuff, I'm pretty sure I would have been quite happy with any of the higher end sub's discussed on these boards. After doing all the research and talking w/ others here.. I am one satisfied customer.. Props to Brian and the Rythmik crew for making a superb Sub..

 

PS My wife has given the FV15HP a nic name...( The Beast )

I haven't told her yet, but the Beast has a twin...:cool:


AVR Marantz  SR7008

Mains Paradigm  Monitor11 S7 

Center Paradigm Studio CC-590v5

Suround Polk RM2300

Sub Rythmik FV15HP

LED Samsung UN55F8000

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post #14226 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 04:40 PM
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Since i got the sub, i turned on this morning and test it. What an upgrade from my previous subs. And it looks gorgeous. Btw while playing a movie how come i noticed some dialogue from the sub? I didn't run any aud. Yet and i am only running one speaker on the right and the sub no center no left speakers and surrounds. Maybe that's why?

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post #14227 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 04:57 PM
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I'm blown away by my F12. Wow. This is so much fun. I feel like a fool that I thought there was something wrong with it when I first set it up. Clearly people on here set me straight. 

 

Now the tweeking, measuring, treating and consideration for the second one begins.

 

I'm so happy with Rythmik and Salk. I could not have done any better on a limited budget.

 

Just thought I'd share that.

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post #14228 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 09:29 PM
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What are the MAJOR difference in Rythmik vs PSA subs? Still trying to figure out what direction I want to go in? The XS30 for the money seems like a great buy!!!!!

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Onkyo 818 receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.1-set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaces by B&W ) bookshelf Height Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA XS30se sub, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #14229 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 09:42 PM
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^^ Rythmik has servo drive. The F25 and XS30 are both great sub. Unfortunately, Ricci has not tested or reviewed either. I recommend buying 2 subs.
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post #14230 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

Since i got the sub, i turned on this morning and test it. What an upgrade from my previous subs. And it looks gorgeous. Btw while playing a movie how come i noticed some dialogue from the sub? I didn't run any aud. Yet and i am only running one speaker on the right and the sub no center no left speakers and surrounds. Maybe that's why?
don't know the reason why only one speaker is hooked up? Hooked all speakers and sub up, run Audyssey, set speakers to small with 80hz crossover, bump up sub trim and enjoy.
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post #14231 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProUnion View Post

PS My wife has given the FV15HP a nic name...( The Beast )
I haven't told her yet, but the Beast has a twin...cool.gif
cool. cool.gif
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post #14232 of 17221 Old 03-01-2014, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

What are the MAJOR difference in Rythmik vs PSA subs? Still trying to figure out what direction I want to go in? The XS30 for the money seems like a great buy!!!!!
Rythmik sub's response do not need digital equalization as a crutch for poorly performing parts. The naked response of PSA's driver is not good and has to be compensated for by heavy equalization from the start. Even without the servo technology, Rythmik would have a much superior subwoofer. Throw in servo correction and there is no comparison. Rythmik's are just better built subs from a performance perspective.
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post #14233 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 02:52 AM
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I'll be joining the Rythmik family, hopefully, shortly.
Ordered 2 Rythmiks E15, one for me and one for a friend.
Now waiting for the email from Rythmik so I can buy and then shipment to Holland smile.gif.

Before I had the DT Supercube Reference, great for HT but not good enough for music.
I listened to quite some subs before I decided: SVS SB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GXW15, JL Audio F112, Rel 528SE, REL Gibraltar G2, Rythmik F15.
For me the Rythmik F15 and JL Audio F112 were the best. A different, tighter, quicker and imo better bass.
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post #14234 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbaatje View Post

I'll be joining the Rythmik family, hopefully, shortly.
Ordered 2 Rythmiks E15, one for me and one for a friend.
Now waiting for the email from Rythmik so I can buy and then shipment to Holland smile.gif.

Before I had the DT Supercube Reference, great for HT but not good enough for music.
I listened to quite some subs before I decided: SVS SB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GXW15, JL Audio F112, Rel 528SE, REL Gibraltar G2, Rythmik F15.
For me the Rythmik F15 and JL Audio F112 were the best. A different, tighter, quicker and imo better bass.

Can I be your friend too? smile.gif

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #14235 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 05:43 AM
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If you're a nice guy, of course smile.gifsmile.gif
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post #14236 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tcramer View Post

Mine were actually double boxed and the outside had the tar beat out of it all around and on the bottom corners. The inside box had very little damage and everything was just fine inside.

I guess they must not double box all of them.

LV12R is the only box we do not use double box. But we do use triple wall box on LV12R. We don't have too many UPS damage claims each year. But when we do, the common damage is puncture (sharp object like steel rod). And the next common one is edge damage. Sometimes the package box may look great or ok from exteriror. Customers think we intentional ship them damaged subwoofers. But I always ask them to look at the side of package box and they will find a tear on the inside of package box that matches the location of the damage.
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post #14237 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 07:41 AM
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Brian, did you check your messages?
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post #14238 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 08:14 AM
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Brian, did you check your messages?

Jeff, sorry for misunderstanding youir question. I PM back and you can call this afternoon.
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post #14239 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

LV12R is the only box we do not use double box. But we do use triple wall box on LV12R. We don't have too many UPS damage claims each year. But when we do, the common damage is puncture (sharp object like steel rod). And the next common one is edge damage. Sometimes the package box may look great or ok from exteriror. Customers think we intentional ship them damaged subwoofers. But I always ask them to look at the side of package box and they will find a tear on the inside of package box that matches the location of the damage.

The edge damage was what mine had but it is barely noticeable. The box looked like it had been through a rugby match. Thankfully the packaging on the inside was very well done or the damage would have been very bad.

Epson Pro Cinema 6030 | OPPO BDP - 103 | Pioneer Elite VSX 70 | Definitive Technology PM 1000 (L/R) | PC 2000 (C) | SR8040BP's (7.1) | Rythmik LV12R | Carada Criterion Brilliant White 118" | URC MX 780 & MRF 350 | ATS Acoustic Panels | Sanus AV Rack | DirecTv | Roku 2 | Monoprice 12AWG |
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post #14240 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 08:59 AM
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Newbie question for first time sub owner - I ran my AVR's calibration and it has the sub set to -1.5 db and I have the subs volume at 12:00. Is this reasonable? My front L and R are smaller bookshelf / satellite speakers. I just want to make sure I am not straining anything. Everything sounds very good but just wanted to be sure. The L and R are set to -3.0 db and the center at -1.5. Surrounds are -5.0 and rears are -6.0.

All speakers are set to small with crossover at 100hz with sub crossover on the sub all the way to max.

Thanks.

Epson Pro Cinema 6030 | OPPO BDP - 103 | Pioneer Elite VSX 70 | Definitive Technology PM 1000 (L/R) | PC 2000 (C) | SR8040BP's (7.1) | Rythmik LV12R | Carada Criterion Brilliant White 118" | URC MX 780 & MRF 350 | ATS Acoustic Panels | Sanus AV Rack | DirecTv | Roku 2 | Monoprice 12AWG |
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post #14241 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 10:09 AM
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^^ I would increase sub volume and rerun Audyssey to achieve about -6db on sub trim. This way I can run sub 6db hot and not passing zero.
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post #14242 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

Newbie question for first time sub owner - I ran my AVR's calibration and it has the sub set to -1.5 db and I have the subs volume at 12:00. Is this reasonable? My front L and R are smaller bookshelf / satellite speakers. I just want to make sure I am not straining anything. Everything sounds very good but just wanted to be sure. The L and R are set to -3.0 db and the center at -1.5. Surrounds are -5.0 and rears are -6.0.

All speakers are set to small with crossover at 100hz with sub crossover on the sub all the way to max.

Thanks.
That all sounds perfectly normal. If it sounds good there then youre done.

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post #14243 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Iain- View Post

Not quite correct. Rythmik are rated to 200 hz.

I run the following:
  • F12SE
  • KEF iQ30 - front
  • KEF iQ10 - rear

... and AVR LFE system crossover at 110 hz. Been like that for the past two years and sounds great. No LFE localisation issues, as F12SE is well integrated to system.

BTW, iQ30 have 6.5 inch woofers whilst iQ10 have 5.5 inch woofers.

Rythmik's own data shows the A370 amps are down 4dB at 200Hz. Ideally you would want to cross well below this frequency.

The further over 80Hz you go the easier it is for a human to detect direction of sound regardless of the equipment being used. Having said this, 110Hz isn't very far over 80Hz from an 'octave' point of view and it's not very high compared with some of the small proprietary satellite systems. It can be quite good from a distortion point of view to cross around the 100/120Hz mark when using bookshelf speakers and the Rythmiks seem to do fine up to this point.
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post #14244 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

Rythmik's own data shows the A370 amps are down 4dB at 200Hz.

I must not be looking in the right places, do you have a link to this? Everywhere I looked the Spec tables show a -2dB rating to 200Hz and the graphs look like -2.0 maybe -2.5 dB (to my aging eyes anyway). Not trying to start a debate, just wondering where your -4dB came from. Thanks.

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post #14245 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

Rythmik's own data shows the A370 amps are down 4dB at 200Hz. Ideally you would want to cross well below this frequency.

The further over 80Hz you go the easier it is for a human to detect direction of sound regardless of the equipment being used. Having said this, 110Hz isn't very far over 80Hz from an 'octave' point of view and it's not very high compared with some of the small proprietary satellite systems. It can be quite good from a distortion point of view to cross around the 100/120Hz mark when using bookshelf speakers and the Rythmiks seem to do fine up to this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post

I must not be looking in the right places, do you have a link to this? Everywhere I looked the Spec tables show a -2dB rating to 200Hz and the graphs look like -2.0 maybe -2.5 dB (to my aging eyes anyway). Not trying to start a debate, just wondering where your -4dB came from. Thanks.

You're looking at A370PEQ3 data.

Reckon Avgass is quoting from original A370PEQ data. All that changed with A370PEQ2 amplifier which increased available badwidth to 200 Hz from 100 Hz. PEQ2 was discontinued in late 2011, when PEQ3 amplifier was introduced.

My amplifier is one of the first A370PEQ3 models, as I took delivery of it in late January 2012.
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post #14246 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 05:02 PM
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Nope, I'm looking at PEQ2. Although the words say -3dB the graph indicates a circa 4dB drop from 100 to 200Hz on this page...

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12_specs.html

Irrespective of the exact drop it is clear a high crossover wouldn't be ideal and isn't for a lot of HT/music subwoofers. I'm not beating on Rythmik here, I am a big fan of their products but think it's important to use any product within its limitations. FYI - A Velodyne DD18+ drops about 4 to 5dB from 50 to 100Hz!
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post #14247 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

^^ I would increase sub volume and rerun Audyssey to achieve about -6db on sub trim. This way I can run sub 6db hot and not passing zero.

Thats exactly what I did. It works great

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post #14248 of 17221 Old 03-02-2014, 08:31 PM
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Guys,

I'd like to put in a good word for Brain. I'm ordering from overseas and initially placed an order for an F12 to suite a listening room of less than 1,500 ft^3 in volume within a small apartment. Before the weekend, Brian said he'd have an F12 shipped out to me by next Tuesday.

Over the weekend, I started thinking about music listening / movie watching habits. For me, I've come to the realization that music is much more important than movies. I tend to listen (and re-listen) far more music than watch movies. I asked Brian if it would be possible to change the driver to the paper type offered by GR research, i.e. F12G. Brian advised that both the F12 and F12G are musical, but the if the cross over is higher than 80Hz say at 120Hz, the GR research driver is slightly better. Since I have small satellite speakers, I would end up with a slightly high cross over frequency. Brian was very accommodating and said he'd change the driver to GR research. smile.gif I wasn't expecting this and now a very happy customer. I don't know many manufacturer's who are willing to do this once an order has been placed, without cost and time penalties. Rythmik/Brian have outstanding customer service and I would recommend them going forward.
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post #14249 of 17221 Old 03-03-2014, 10:28 AM
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I just want to clarify that I should not be messing with the PEQ settings on the back of the FV15HP?

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #14250 of 17221 Old 03-03-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

What are the MAJOR difference in Rythmik vs PSA subs? Still trying to figure out what direction I want to go in? The XS30 for the money seems like a great buy!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Rythmik sub's response do not need digital equalization as a crutch for poorly performing parts. The naked response of PSA's driver is not good and has to be compensated for by heavy equalization from the start. Even without the servo technology, Rythmik would have a much superior subwoofer. Throw in servo correction and there is no comparison. Rythmik's are just better built subs from a performance perspective.


One major feature missing from PSA drivers are shorting rings. Almost any up-to-date driver will have aluminum or copper shorting rings. These rings minimize changes in inductance as the voice coil moves. Changes in inductance, and change is the important word here, cause significant distortion. You will note that most subwoofer manufactures list shorting rings as a feature, PSA doesn't list them and doesn't have them.

Vance Dickerson's Loudspeaker Cookbook describes them, and their benefits, as do many other sources on the net. Mr. Dickerson even had sample drivers built with and without shorting rings to demonstrate the advantages. AES papers have described their benefits. Using the rings can't cost much, I don't understand why PSA doesn't use them.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer

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