Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 533 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #15961 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

...
Brian discussed the BL impact at one point; I'm sure he'd be willing to do so again if the post is not easy to find (I did not look tonight -- tired, and this is a big thread!)
...

I would be interested - if you can find it.

I tried to read this entire thread awhile ago - but I gave up. Then I resorted to searching only on posts from user "Rythmik". Even that list was huge.

Our sensing coil indeed has some special design features which you can understand I don't want elaborate here. The BL profile of sensing coil is different from the BL profile of the driver coil. One MIT student bought a driver from us to finish his undergraduate thesis. He already has a better head start than others as that is a significant improvement over a regular dual voice coil driver (sorry Don, I have to point this out BTW, I also started with a dual voice driver)


-

Last edited by Rythmik; 06-16-2014 at 10:09 AM.
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post #15962 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
Non the less, I think the servo drives are the way to go - I have 2 of Brian's dual 8" kits, and I love them.

We do plan to make those as regular finished products. We will have two flavors: F8 and M8. They share basically same driver/enclosure/amp. However, in F8, there are 3 extension setting whereas in M8, one of the extension setting is designated as 50hz/24 so that it can be used as a midbass module.


Some customers have asked where we are for the FV15 replacement? To make long story short, we decide to offer the follow new models by Thanksgiving:
1) FVX15 (DS1502 aluminum driver + HX405 amp). This has the same enclosure size as FV15HP. But the new amp without PEQ control can make it more affordable. The price should be around $999, plus $140 shipping. In terms of compromise over FV15HP other than driver and PEQ, the extension setting will have 1port music, 1port HT, and 2port. There will be no independent damping and extension filter control.
2) FVX12(DS1204 aluminum driver + HX405 amp). This model has a smaller enclosure (20"H x 17" W, 22" D without grille, grille and amp control add 2"). The price is to be determined, but my goal is around $900 including shipping. It has dual tune feature similar to FVX15.


Both this models should fill up the big pricing jump we have from LV12R to FV15HP. If the pricing pressure is too much, we may even consider LVX12 (which use less expensive paper cone driver) and by doing that we can drop price by another $100.


For sealed subs, we also have L12 in the work (300WRMS amp driving 14" cube) and other models... Stay tuned.
its phillip likes this.
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post #15963 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 10:01 AM
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So the fv15hp will still be the top of the ported? Fvx15 should have similar FR as the Fv15hp? What about the F25hp?

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post #15964 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
So the fv15hp will still be the top of the ported?
I know where you are going. I am not going to make fridge size subwoofers. Maybe DIY can do that in their garage

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Fvx15 should have similar FR as the Fv15hp? What about the F25hp?

FVX15 scale with FV15HP pretty well. So customers will have same FR as FV15HP.


F25HP is still in the work with my contractor engineer. That one has the most uncertainty. Hope everything turns out as I have calculated.


-

Last edited by Rythmik; 06-16-2014 at 10:44 AM.
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post #15965 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
So the fv15hp will still be the top of the ported?
I know where you are going. I am not going to make frig size subwoofers. Maybe DIY can do that in their garage
No, I am happy to still own a pair of the top dog Rythmik ported sub . The FV15hp is just the right size for its performance. I know I am all set for subs for the longest time unless I want more which I do not see, then a fridge size DIY will be it.
The FVX will be a great value sub.
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post #15966 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 12:33 PM
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[quote=Rythmik;25006050]
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Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
Our sensing coil indeed has some special design features which you can understand I don't want elaborate here. The BL profile of sensing coil is different from the BL profile of the driver coil. One MIT student bought a driver from us to finish his undergraduate thesis. He already has a better head start than others as that is a significant improvement over a regular dual voice coil driver (sorry Don, I have to point this out BTW, I also started with a dual voice driver)-
No apologies due me, Brian! My work was almost 30 years ago and I am glad to see people like you have taken it so much further! And glad I am one of the ones reaping the results.

For the record, the woofer I used also had different BL curves for each coil, but I used a simple LDI control loop and did not carry the idea nearly as far as Brian has. Of course, I was an undergrad student at the time, and Brian has a PhD plus lots of experience with control systems.

No worries - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #15967 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 03:33 PM
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[quote=Rythmik;25006506]
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Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
For sealed subs, we also have L12 in the work (300WRMS amp driving 14" cube) and other models... Stay tuned.
You have talked about this model before.
I would love to see this but there seems to be a lot of Models.

Sealed subs seem to be less popular and I can't see many people picking the L12 over the LV12 if the price is around the same. Another brand has a sealed and ported option in the same price range and most people recommend the ported version even for Music as both are clean.
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post #15968 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 04:35 PM
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post #15969 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

You have talked about this model before.
I would love to see this but there seems to be a lot of Models.

Sealed subs seem to be less popular and I can't see many people picking the L12 over the LV12 if the price is around the same. Another brand has a sealed and ported option in the same price range and most people recommend the ported version even for Music as both are clean.

Black, I appreciate your feedback. This is thetype of feedback we really want to hear.

L12 will be our standard overseas "postal shipping" subwoofer. It is the first sub that is truly able to ship via postal office. In addition, our F12 is still a very popular model (but pricy)which means there are sealed sub die-hard customers who are willing to sacrificea bit in output. L12 entry servo sealed sub will serve that market well. Mostthe recommendations on AVS forum are based on HT-centric application.

We will also have other derivative products following L12. Your feedback on L12 allows us to adjust the qty mix.


-

Last edited by Rythmik; 06-16-2014 at 09:42 PM.
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post #15970 of 27145 Old 06-16-2014, 08:41 PM
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[quote=Rythmik;25023250]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post

Black, I appreciate your feedback. This is thetype of feedback we really want to hear.

L12 will be our standard overseas "postal shipping" subwoofer. It is the first sub that is truly able to ship via postal office. In addition, our F12 is still a very popular model (but pricy)which means there are sealed sub die-hard customers who are willing to sacrificea bit in output. L12 entry servo sealed sub will serve that market well. Mostthe recommendations on AVS forum are based on HT-centric application.

We will also have other derivative products following L12. Your feedback on L12 allows us to adjust the qty mix.


-
I have been waiting very patiently for the L12 sealed sub.
Let me know when you plan on releasing them and I will
Happily be one of the first to order.
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post #15971 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 07:50 AM
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[quote=grasshoppers;25024922]
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I have been waiting very patiently for the L12 sealed sub.
Let me know when you plan on releasing them and I will
Happily be one of the first to order.
I have to ask, the LV12 is the ported version and identical to the LV12-R? I would choose ported over sealed anyday from the Rythmik family. I have my LV12-R sub configured for maximum extension and its extremely tight for music. I do not detect any kind of boom or sloppyness in its output.
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post #15972 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 08:02 AM
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[quote=3db;25032058]
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Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post


I have to ask, the LV12 is the ported version and identical to the LV12-R? I would choose ported over sealed anyday from the Rythmik family. I have my LV12-R sub configured for maximum extension and its extremely tight for music. I do not detect any kind of boom or sloppyness in its output.
The LV12 is the same LV12R. Sometimes we forget to put the R at the end. The FV12 (port on the front) was the previous 12" ported subwoofer but we replaced it with the LV12R. The L12 will be the sealed version of the LV12R.



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Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #15973 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 08:05 AM
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[quote=3db;25032058]
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post


I have to ask, the LV12 is the ported version and identical to the LV12-R? I would choose ported over sealed anyday from the Rythmik family. I have my LV12-R sub configured for maximum extension and its extremely tight for music. I do not detect any kind of boom or sloppyness in its output.
And this is why it's recommended so often. I don't think anything can beat it in the $600 dollar price range.

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #15974 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik
... we decide to offer the follow new models by Thanksgiving:
1) FVX15 (DS1502 aluminum driver + HX405 amp). This has the same enclosure size as FV15HP.
. . .
FVX15 scale with FV15HP pretty well. So customers will have same FR as FV15HP.
The FVX15 sounds intriguing! Although its FR is expected to be the same as the FV15HP's, output will likely be less. What are the "guesstimates" of how its output will compare?

Thanks!

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post #15975 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 01:12 PM
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This is purely a guess but I would think around 3db less accross the board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
The FVX15 sounds intriguing! Although its FR is expected to be the same as the FV15HP's, output will likely be less. What are the "guesstimates" of how its output will compare?

Thanks!

My home theater
Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
Subwoofers: 4 Rythmik FV15HP , 5 Crowson Shadow 8 transducers, 3 Buttkicker LFE
Display: JVC RS400
FS: 4xRythmik FV15HP

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post #15976 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
We do plan to make those as regular finished products. We will have two flavors: F8 and M8. They share basically same driver/enclosure/amp. However, in F8, there are 3 extension setting whereas in M8, one of the extension setting is designated as 50hz/24 so that it can be used as a midbass module.


Some customers have asked where we are for the FV15 replacement? To make long story short, we decide to offer the follow new models by Thanksgiving:
1) FVX15 (DS1502 aluminum driver + HX405 amp). This has the same enclosure size as FV15HP. But the new amp without PEQ control can make it more affordable. The price should be around $999, plus $140 shipping. In terms of compromise over FV15HP other than driver and PEQ, the extension setting will have 1port music, 1port HT, and 2port. There will be no independent damping and extension filter control.
2) FVX12(DS1204 aluminum driver + HX405 amp). This model has a smaller enclosure (20"H x 17" W, 22" D without grille, grille and amp control add 2"). The price is to be determined, but my goal is around $900 including shipping. It has dual tune feature similar to FVX15.


Both this models should fill up the big pricing jump we have from LV12R to FV15HP. If the pricing pressure is too much, we may even consider LVX12 (which use less expensive paper cone driver) and by doing that we can drop price by another $100.


For sealed subs, we also have L12 in the work (300WRMS amp driving 14" cube) and other models... Stay tuned.
Brian,

Can you tell us what you are expecting the wattage to be on the HX405 amp? Also, will the FVX12 look like a smaller version of the FV15HP?

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #15977 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 01:42 PM
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This is purely a guess but I would think around 3db less accross the board.
I like your setup! This makes me want to add a third FV15HP nearfield. Right now I have two up front and I'm more than satisfied, but hey you can't ever have too much bass.

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #15978 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 03:59 PM
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This is purely a guess but I would think around 3db less accross the board.
According to Brian the output on this subwoofer will be -3dB less across the board compared with the FV15HP.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
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post #15979 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 04:01 PM
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^^ good to know.
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post #15980 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Brian,

Can you tell us what you are expecting the wattage to be on the HX405 amp? Also, will the FVX12 look like a smaller version of the FV15HP?
The HX405 is a 400 watts Hypex amplifier.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #15981 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 07:22 PM
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I too am interested in the L12. Will it have the same output as the F12?
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post #15982 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 07:32 PM
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I too am interested in the L12. Will it have the same output as the F12?
I'll let Brian chime on this but I'm pretty sure than the L12 will have less output than the F12 mostly because the size of the box (14" cube) and the power of the amp (300 WRMS).



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
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post #15983 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 07:42 PM
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Thank you! The third one did not add much in terms of output as much as it helped smooth a wide dip around 35-50hz. The tactile feedback improved quite a bit as well. If you have a smooth response and you get decent tactile response, you should be good as long as your subs can handle your current listening levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
I like your setup! This makes me want to add a third FV15HP nearfield. Right now I have two up front and I'm more than satisfied, but hey you can't ever have too much bass.

My home theater
Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
Subwoofers: 4 Rythmik FV15HP , 5 Crowson Shadow 8 transducers, 3 Buttkicker LFE
Display: JVC RS400
FS: 4xRythmik FV15HP
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post #15984 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 08:30 PM
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I too am interested in the L12. Will it have the same output as the F12?
L12 is an entry levelsealed sub. It is not meant to replace F12. The amp is similar to the amp used in LV12R (which is 300WRMS)so that we can keep the cost on par with LV12R. L12 is also smaller than F12 which means it is less efficient. We have adjusted the T/S parameters so that it can come as close to the output of F12 at 20hz. But output above 20hz will be slightly lesst han that of F12. I will keep a reasonable damping value of the lowest extension music mode so that customers can still enjoy deeper than 20hz extension. A rumble filter is included for HT mode. If some has more than one L12, he can even use low extension music mode for HT use. The third extension mode is high extension (maybe 24hz or 28hz 3rd order roll-off). I need confirmation from F12 customers that they seldom use 28hz extension setting.

I have hinted there will be derivative productsof L12 which include a possibility of E12 (aluminum cone driver using HX400 400WRMS amp for sealed configuration), or L22 (two drivers with HX580 amp). My thinking is F15 is no longer as price-wise competitive. We have to find a good replacement model and L22 seems to make sense.

Originally I don't want to discuss too much on future products. But I guess too many of you want to understand what we have in mind.

Last edited by Rythmik; 06-17-2014 at 09:10 PM.
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post #15985 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 08:45 PM
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This is purely a guess but I would think around 3db less accross the board.
You are right on. The max difference will be 3db. If I have to give a range, it will be 2.5db to 3db difference across the board.
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post #15986 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 08:48 PM
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Brian,
Also, will the FVX12 look like a smaller version of the FV15HP?

Yes. That is the idea.
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post #15987 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 08:54 PM
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Brian, I never use the 28 Hz setting on my pair of F12's. Given the Nature of Man I suspect nobody will; everyone will use the lower settings and dig as deep as possible.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #15988 of 27145 Old 06-17-2014, 09:19 PM
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^^ +1. I would use the 10hz if there is an option. I doubt anyone uses 28hz as I don't see the reason to spend $$550 or more in a sub for that extension.
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post #15989 of 27145 Old 06-18-2014, 08:09 AM
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Well, I'd like to introduce myself to the Rythmik club as I pulled the trigger on the LV12R earlier this week! It will be here Friday.

With that said, it's been a WHILE since I setup a sub/HT system. I have a Yamaha 675, which means YPAO. How do I go about calibrating the sub? I was reading that I need to play with the Sub Gain to get YPAO to get the sub the closest to 0dB? Then twek the levels inside the receiver?

I do have an SPL meter and typically, I tone out all the speakers to read 80dB on the SPL, with the center running a little hot, around 82-83 for better dialogue and the sub running at 84-85 for more bass. Is this still the way to do it? However, please note that I NEVER used room calibration software. I always just used the SPL meter.

Thanks and I can't wait for it to get here!
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post #15990 of 27145 Old 06-18-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
L12 is an entry levelsealed sub. It is not meant to replace F12. The amp is similar to the amp used in LV12R (which is 300WRMS)so that we can keep the cost on par with LV12R. L12 is also smaller than F12 which means it is less efficient. We have adjusted the T/S parameters so that it can come as close to the output of F12 at 20hz. But output above 20hz will be slightly lesst han that of F12. I will keep a reasonable damping value of the lowest extension music mode so that customers can still enjoy deeper than 20hz extension. A rumble filter is included for HT mode. If some has more than one L12, he can even use low extension music mode for HT use. The third extension mode is high extension (maybe 24hz or 28hz 3rd order roll-off). I need confirmation from F12 customers that they seldom use 28hz extension setting.

I have hinted there will be derivative productsof L12 which include a possibility of E12 (aluminum cone driver using HX400 400WRMS amp for sealed configuration), or L22 (two drivers with HX580 amp). My thinking is F15 is no longer as price-wise competitive. We have to find a good replacement model and L22 seems to make sense.

Originally I don't want to discuss too much on future products. But I guess too many of you want to understand what we have in mind.
I leave mine at 14hz, high damping all the time...
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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