Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 538 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:30 PM
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Old 06-26-2014, 05:14 PM
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Thanks a lot man! Just emailed him.
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Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-26-2014, 05:31 PM
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Okay guys I need your help. If you were me would you pick-up a 3rd FV15HP to place nearfield? Both my FV15HP's are currently up front about 12 ft away from the MLP. Or would you upgrade the dated receiver I have to the Denon X4000 and move one of my FV15HP's nearfield in the back left corner of the room and move the other to the front right corner? I'll post some pictures of my living room and please excuse the mess. One FV15HP would go where the globe is and the other where my DVD rack is up front.
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Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's

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Old 06-26-2014, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Okay guys I need your help. If you were me would you pick-up a 3rd FV15HP to place nearfield? Both my FV15HP's are currently up front about 12 ft away from the MLP. Or would you upgrade the dated receiver I have to the Denon X4000 and move one of my FV15HP's nearfield in the back left corner of the room and move the other to the front right corner? I'll post some pictures of my living room and please excuse the mess. One FV15HP would go where the globe is and the other where my DVD rack is up front.
I would definitely moving 1 of your subs nearfield before you do anything to see if you like it. Do you feel like you could use more headroom?

Your receiver seems fine in my books (I only run XT). Before you do anything, I would either get REW and a mic up and running, or buy the omnimic. I'd also get the minidsp. IMO, you won't have any idea if you've upgraded if you haven't measured your response first. You could have a fantastic response right now, and wouldn't need to upgrade!
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:25 PM
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I would definitely moving 1 of your subs nearfield before you do anything to see if you like it. Do you feel like you could use more headroom?

Your receiver seems fine in my books (I only run XT). Before you do anything, I would either get REW and a mic up and running, or buy the omnimic. I'd also get the minidsp. IMO, you won't have any idea if you've upgraded if you haven't measured your response first. You could have a fantastic response right now, and wouldn't need to upgrade!
I pm'd Austin Jerry to see if he would be willing to help me with REW and setting up a mic, but I haven't gotten a response yet. He is in Austin, Texas too.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:07 PM
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JT,
That is a good price for the Onkyo, have you checked with the dealer I PMed you a while back. I got my X4000 for less than the price of Onkyo 1010 price you mentioned. He is authorized dealer for both Onkyo, Denon, Klipcsh, etc.... You should try one sub near field behind your seat and leave one upfront. Most of the time these locations will result in a better FR aside from the tactile feeling you will get with one nearfield. I think you will like them even more with these locations and then realize there is a hole in the front or it's no longer symmetric upfront and end up getting a third one to fill that hole
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Okay guys I need your help. If you were me would you pick-up a 3rd FV15HP to place nearfield? Both my FV15HP's are currently up front about 12 ft away from the MLP. Or would you upgrade the dated receiver I have to the Denon X4000 and move one of my FV15HP's nearfield in the back left corner of the room and move the other to the front right corner? I'll post some pictures of my living room and please excuse the mess. One FV15HP would go where the globe is and the other where my DVD rack is up front.
JT,

It's a hard call, but I'd go for the Audyssey XT32 with sub EQ HT that's available on the Denon X4000. The reason being is that Audyssey room correction is very good and XT32 is the top of the line version. There's been a number of posts on the differences between the various versions of Audyssey and according to the guy who invented it, he only recommends XT32. The following article by kbarnes701 is a worthwhile read: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

Jerry Austin tried comparing XT32 with/without the MiniDSP in the audio chain. Audyssey did such a good job with correcting the room modes that MiniDSP didn't really add much to it. If one has a lower version of Audyssey (like I do) then the MiniDSP becomes worthwhile.

I'd only go with a 3rd sub if more output is needed.

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Old 06-27-2014, 03:34 AM
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I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a sticky thread on how to set up a sub, am I overlooking this? I'm looking for a good overview of what to do when my new Rythmik FV15HP arrives, e.g. tips for doing an effective sub crawl, best music to choose for that purpose, tips on optimal sub settings, etc.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:25 AM
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You're lookin at the sticky! We are here to help, so when you get your FV15HP revisit this thread.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a sticky thread on how to set up a sub, am I overlooking this? I'm looking for a good overview of what to do when my new Rythmik FV15HP arrives, e.g. tips for doing an effective sub crawl, best music to choose for that purpose, tips on optimal sub settings, etc.
Come right here , this thread will be your best bet, many on this forum have the information you seek.
I only have 5 rythmik subs in my theater.




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Old 06-27-2014, 07:36 AM
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Wow !! Five Rythmik's !!

I just got my first one yesterday, an E15, never had a sub before and got a used one from their clearance section. It was supposed to have a tiny dent in the cone but I cant seem to find one. In fact, it looks like a brand new one to me in every way.

Before it shipped I got an email from Brian saying it had a H600XLR3 amp instead of the H600PEQ3 and asking if that would be okay. I had no idea if it would or not until I called and got Enrico who explained differences and I decided it would, same price due to omission in description.

I called Enrico when it arrived and got setup instructions, for not only my subwoofer but Denon X1000 and even learned how to play with setting and stuff. I had no idea what my Denon and Sub could do and it was a nice surprise to find out.

Now, I gotta say, this Enrico guy is kinda hard to understand and I'm hearing impaired. But after listening closely I quickly learned this guy knows what he is talking about, kinda like a human AVS forums, and was more than happy to help me.

I am now absolutely loving my sub, can hardly believe the difference it makes, and could not be more impressed with Rythmik. So, I figure it goes for anyone who purchases a Rythmik subwoofer, you can just call them up anytime and they will answer any question you may have, nicely, even if you are like me.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 98Harley View Post
Wow !! Five Rythmik's !!

I just got my first one yesterday, an E15, never had a sub before and got a used one from their clearance section. It was supposed to have a tiny dent in the cone but I cant seem to find one. In fact, it looks like a brand new one to me in every way.

Before it shipped I got an email from Brian saying it had a H600XLR3 amp instead of the H600PEQ3 and asking if that would be okay. I had no idea if it would or not until I called and got Enrico who explained differences and I decided it would, same price due to omission in description.

I called Enrico when it arrived and got setup instructions, for not only my subwoofer but Denon X1000 and even learned how to play with setting and stuff. I had no idea what my Denon and Sub could do and it was a nice surprise to find out.

Now, I gotta say, this Enrico guy is kinda hard to understand and I'm hearing impaired. But after listening closely I quickly learned this guy knows what he is talking about, kinda like a human AVS forums, and was more than happy to help me.

I am now absolutely loving my sub, can hardly believe the difference it makes, and could not be more impressed with Rythmik. So, I figure it goes for anyone who purchases a Rythmik subwoofer, you can just call them up anytime and they will answer any question you may have, nicely, even if you are like me.
Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the family. Rythmik's customer service is top notch and this review along with many others simply solidify that.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Harley View Post
Wow !! Five Rythmik's !!

I just got my first one yesterday, an E15, never had a sub before and got a used one from their clearance section. It was supposed to have a tiny dent in the cone but I cant seem to find one. In fact, it looks like a brand new one to me in every way.

Before it shipped I got an email from Brian saying it had a H600XLR3 amp instead of the H600PEQ3 and asking if that would be okay. I had no idea if it would or not until I called and got Enrico who explained differences and I decided it would, same price due to omission in description.

I called Enrico when it arrived and got setup instructions, for not only my subwoofer but Denon X1000 and even learned how to play with setting and stuff. I had no idea what my Denon and Sub could do and it was a nice surprise to find out.

Now, I gotta say, this Enrico guy is kinda hard to understand and I'm hearing impaired. But after listening closely I quickly learned this guy knows what he is talking about, kinda like a human AVS forums, and was more than happy to help me.

I am now absolutely loving my sub, can hardly believe the difference it makes, and could not be more impressed with Rythmik. So, I figure it goes for anyone who purchases a Rythmik subwoofer, you can just call them up anytime and they will answer any question you may have, nicely, even if you are like me.
I'm glad I was able to help with your setup. Sorry about my strong accent but sometimes is even hard for me to remember if I'm speaking in Italian, English or Spanish

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

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Old 06-27-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post
The street price for X4000 has been below $1K for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willscary View Post

Thanks for the help guys. You saved me a few hundred dollars. I'm going to pick-up the Denon X4000 for essentially the same price I was going to get the Onkyo TX-NR1010 for. This is going to enable me to not be forced to have my subs equidistant to the MLP and be more flexible with my positioning. Specifically, moving one nearfield for that extra slam. I will share my thoughts after I receive it. If I still feel like I want a 3rd FV15HP then I'll have to save my pennies for it. I'm stoked about XT32 and Sub EQ.
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Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Thanks for the help guys. You saved me a few hundred dollars. I'm going to pick-up the Denon X4000 for essentially the same price I was going to get the Onkyo TX-NR1010 for. This is going to enable me to not be forced to have my subs equidistant to the MLP and be more flexible with my positioning. Specifically, moving one nearfield for that extra slam. I will share my thoughts after I receive it. If I still feel like I want a 3rd FV15HP then I'll have to save my pennies for it. I'm stoked about XT32 and Sub EQ.
My two subwoofers (F12SE) are nearfield, one on each side of my couch but even with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT I get cancellation at the crossover point (80Hz). The solution for me is to set the delay for the subwoofer on the left at 11 o'clock and leave untouched whatever my Marantz SR7008 set for distance. The delay for the subwoofer on the right is set at 0 (7 o'clock). My point here is even with SubEQ HT you may need to trick some parameters in one of the subwoofers. Also I strongly recommend to trust more in your ears than in REW or any other measurement tool.

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

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Old 06-27-2014, 12:12 PM
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Also I strongly recommend to trust more in your ears than in REW or any other measurement tool.
+1 Amen to that.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:14 PM
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Cancellation at the crossover point is the main reason having that phase knob is so important and why a lot of room correction programs may fail to provide good results. Away from the crossover frequency the speaker being rolled off has less influence on the other. At the crossover point the sound waves need to be aligned at the listening position or you'll get a "hole".

Due to the nature of crossovers plus typically different physical location of mains and sub(s), physical distance is unreliable. You can use several means to correct the phase at the crossover point. One of the easiest, if not most precise, is to use an SPL meter (or even your ears), play a test tone at the crossover frequency, and adjust the sub's phase for the loudest signal at the listening location.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:31 PM
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Cancellation at the crossover point is the main reason having that phase knob is so important and why a lot of room correction programs may fail to provide good results. Away from the crossover frequency the speaker being rolled off has less influence on the other. At the crossover point the sound waves need to be aligned at the listening position or you'll get a "hole".

Due to the nature of crossovers plus typically different physical location of mains and sub(s), physical distance is unreliable. You can use several means to correct the phase at the crossover point. One of the easiest, if not most precise, is to use an SPL meter (or even your ears), play a test tone at the crossover frequency, and adjust the sub's phase for the loudest signal at the listening location.
Yes, that's the easy way to do it and that's the way I did. Only trusting in my ears. After that I do a fine tuning playing my favorite jazz song, Bali Run by Fourplay and He Won't Go by Adele. The bass track in He Won't Go is so clear and detailed that this song is one of my favorites for bass tuning.

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Old 06-27-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Cancellation at the crossover point is the main reason having that phase knob is so important and why a lot of room correction programs may fail to provide good results. Away from the crossover frequency the speaker being rolled off has less influence on the other. At the crossover point the sound waves need to be aligned at the listening position or you'll get a "hole".

Due to the nature of crossovers plus typically different physical location of mains and sub(s), physical distance is unreliable. You can use several means to correct the phase at the crossover point. One of the easiest, if not most precise, is to use an SPL meter (or even your ears), play a test tone at the crossover frequency, and adjust the sub's phase for the loudest signal at the listening location.
AKA subwoofer crawl but without moving the subwoofer all around the room.

Best Regards,

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Old 06-27-2014, 12:40 PM
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You'd hate how I did it, test equipment and all that science junk, but as long as we both enjoy the music at the end it's all good!

I have several issues with the subwoofer crawl thingie but this ain't the place...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a sticky thread on how to set up a sub, am I overlooking this? I'm looking for a good overview of what to do when my new Rythmik FV15HP arrives, e.g. tips for doing an effective sub crawl, best music to choose for that purpose, tips on optimal sub settings, etc.
Here's a document that I did for a friend a few years back when he bought a Rythmik. It's an aggregation of info from numerous sources so I don't take any credit (or responsibility) for the information...none of it is etched in stone, so use or disregard any of the info, as you see fit. The document has evolved a lot since I originally did it and is decidedly Audyssey-centric, but if nothing else, it has a bunch of links to helpful references.

YMMV.

HTH
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
My two subwoofers (F12SE) are nearfield, one on each side of my couch but even with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT I get cancellation at the crossover point (80Hz). The solution for me is to set the delay for the subwoofer on the left at 11 o'clock and leave untouched whatever my Marantz SR7008 set for distance. The delay for the subwoofer on the right is set at 0 (7 o'clock). My point here is even with SubEQ HT you may need to trick some parameters in one of the subwoofers. Also I strongly recommend to trust more in your ears than in REW or any other measurement tool.
Well I hope I don't run into this issue after just dropping a grand expecting it to pay big dividends on my system.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:20 PM
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^^^Maybe this will be less of an issue for me or non existant since both of my subs will be on opposite corners of my living room. I'll find out soon enough.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post
Here's a document that I did for a friend a few years back when he bought a Rythmik. It's an aggregation of info from numerous sources so I don't take any credit (or responsibility) for the information...none of it is etched in stone, so use or disregard any of the info, as you see fit. The document has evolved a lot since I originally did it and is decidedly Audyssey-centric, but if nothing else, it has a bunch of links to helpful references.

YMMV.

HTH
Great, this looks really helpful!
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:27 PM
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Well I hope I don't run into this issue after just dropping a grand expecting it to pay big dividends on my system.
I think the point is that worst case it's correctable with phase adjustments on the subs, plus XT32 should help a lot. You're definitely moving in the right direction. I updated my receiver from a Denon 1909 to the 4311ci and love it. Not one regret.

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Old 06-27-2014, 07:16 PM
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IIRC, using Rythmik LFE in defeats its phase adjustment. Only line in enables that. One can adjust sub distances from the avr which is similar to adjusting the sub phase knob.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:45 PM
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IIRC, using Rythmik LFE in defeats its phase adjustment. Only line in enables that. One can adjust sub distances from the avr which is similar to adjusting the sub phase knob.
That's correct, LFE IN bypass crossover and delay functions but I don't use LFE IN, I use LINE IN and set the low pass filter on AVR/12.

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Old 06-27-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
That's correct, LFE IN bypass crossover and delay functions but I don't use LFE IN, I use LINE IN and set the low pass filter on AVR/12.
Enrico, how clean, as far as THD %, do you think a pair of F12's would play a 16 Hz tone at 90 dB in room? If this is ones goal for a dual sealed sub setup, what would your recommendation be? Looking for seamless integration with main speakers i.e. unable to detect that separate subs are playing on classical music.

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Old 06-27-2014, 08:01 PM
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Enrico, how clean, as far as THD %, do you think a pair of F12's would play a 16 Hz tone at 90 dB in room? If this is ones goal for a dual sealed sub setup, what would your recommendation be? Looking for seamless integration with main speakers i.e. unable to detect that separate subs are playing on classical music.
Let me check and I'll get back to you as soon I'm done with the test. But like I said before I'm the kind of guy that trust more in his ears than in measurements tools.

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Enrico Castagnetti
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:10 PM
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OK. I did the test and I got 90dB with the volume set on the AVR at -23dB. My system is calibrated at 75dB but I run my subwoofers +6dB hot. Of course at 16Hz my windows were shaking but it was very clean. My room is about 2700 cf and very well treated acoustically.

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Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer
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