Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 538 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 06-27-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a sticky thread on how to set up a sub, am I overlooking this? I'm looking for a good overview of what to do when my new Rythmik FV15HP arrives, e.g. tips for doing an effective sub crawl, best music to choose for that purpose, tips on optimal sub settings, etc.
Come right here , this thread will be your best bet, many on this forum have the information you seek.
I only have 5 rythmik subs in my theater.




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Old 06-27-2014, 07:36 AM
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Wow !! Five Rythmik's !!

I just got my first one yesterday, an E15, never had a sub before and got a used one from their clearance section. It was supposed to have a tiny dent in the cone but I cant seem to find one. In fact, it looks like a brand new one to me in every way.

Before it shipped I got an email from Brian saying it had a H600XLR3 amp instead of the H600PEQ3 and asking if that would be okay. I had no idea if it would or not until I called and got Enrico who explained differences and I decided it would, same price due to omission in description.

I called Enrico when it arrived and got setup instructions, for not only my subwoofer but Denon X1000 and even learned how to play with setting and stuff. I had no idea what my Denon and Sub could do and it was a nice surprise to find out.

Now, I gotta say, this Enrico guy is kinda hard to understand and I'm hearing impaired. But after listening closely I quickly learned this guy knows what he is talking about, kinda like a human AVS forums, and was more than happy to help me.

I am now absolutely loving my sub, can hardly believe the difference it makes, and could not be more impressed with Rythmik. So, I figure it goes for anyone who purchases a Rythmik subwoofer, you can just call them up anytime and they will answer any question you may have, nicely, even if you are like me.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 98Harley View Post
Wow !! Five Rythmik's !!

I just got my first one yesterday, an E15, never had a sub before and got a used one from their clearance section. It was supposed to have a tiny dent in the cone but I cant seem to find one. In fact, it looks like a brand new one to me in every way.

Before it shipped I got an email from Brian saying it had a H600XLR3 amp instead of the H600PEQ3 and asking if that would be okay. I had no idea if it would or not until I called and got Enrico who explained differences and I decided it would, same price due to omission in description.

I called Enrico when it arrived and got setup instructions, for not only my subwoofer but Denon X1000 and even learned how to play with setting and stuff. I had no idea what my Denon and Sub could do and it was a nice surprise to find out.

Now, I gotta say, this Enrico guy is kinda hard to understand and I'm hearing impaired. But after listening closely I quickly learned this guy knows what he is talking about, kinda like a human AVS forums, and was more than happy to help me.

I am now absolutely loving my sub, can hardly believe the difference it makes, and could not be more impressed with Rythmik. So, I figure it goes for anyone who purchases a Rythmik subwoofer, you can just call them up anytime and they will answer any question you may have, nicely, even if you are like me.
Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the family. Rythmik's customer service is top notch and this review along with many others simply solidify that.

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Harley View Post
Wow !! Five Rythmik's !!

I just got my first one yesterday, an E15, never had a sub before and got a used one from their clearance section. It was supposed to have a tiny dent in the cone but I cant seem to find one. In fact, it looks like a brand new one to me in every way.

Before it shipped I got an email from Brian saying it had a H600XLR3 amp instead of the H600PEQ3 and asking if that would be okay. I had no idea if it would or not until I called and got Enrico who explained differences and I decided it would, same price due to omission in description.

I called Enrico when it arrived and got setup instructions, for not only my subwoofer but Denon X1000 and even learned how to play with setting and stuff. I had no idea what my Denon and Sub could do and it was a nice surprise to find out.

Now, I gotta say, this Enrico guy is kinda hard to understand and I'm hearing impaired. But after listening closely I quickly learned this guy knows what he is talking about, kinda like a human AVS forums, and was more than happy to help me.

I am now absolutely loving my sub, can hardly believe the difference it makes, and could not be more impressed with Rythmik. So, I figure it goes for anyone who purchases a Rythmik subwoofer, you can just call them up anytime and they will answer any question you may have, nicely, even if you are like me.
I'm glad I was able to help with your setup. Sorry about my strong accent but sometimes is even hard for me to remember if I'm speaking in Italian, English or Spanish



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post
The street price for X4000 has been below $1K for a long time.
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Originally Posted by willscary View Post

Thanks for the help guys. You saved me a few hundred dollars. I'm going to pick-up the Denon X4000 for essentially the same price I was going to get the Onkyo TX-NR1010 for. This is going to enable me to not be forced to have my subs equidistant to the MLP and be more flexible with my positioning. Specifically, moving one nearfield for that extra slam. I will share my thoughts after I receive it. If I still feel like I want a 3rd FV15HP then I'll have to save my pennies for it. I'm stoked about XT32 and Sub EQ.
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Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Thanks for the help guys. You saved me a few hundred dollars. I'm going to pick-up the Denon X4000 for essentially the same price I was going to get the Onkyo TX-NR1010 for. This is going to enable me to not be forced to have my subs equidistant to the MLP and be more flexible with my positioning. Specifically, moving one nearfield for that extra slam. I will share my thoughts after I receive it. If I still feel like I want a 3rd FV15HP then I'll have to save my pennies for it. I'm stoked about XT32 and Sub EQ.
My two subwoofers (F12SE) are nearfield, one on each side of my couch but even with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT I get cancellation at the crossover point (80Hz). The solution for me is to set the delay for the subwoofer on the left at 11 o'clock and leave untouched whatever my Marantz SR7008 set for distance. The delay for the subwoofer on the right is set at 0 (7 o'clock). My point here is even with SubEQ HT you may need to trick some parameters in one of the subwoofers. Also I strongly recommend to trust more in your ears than in REW or any other measurement tool.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Also I strongly recommend to trust more in your ears than in REW or any other measurement tool.
+1 Amen to that.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:14 PM
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Cancellation at the crossover point is the main reason having that phase knob is so important and why a lot of room correction programs may fail to provide good results. Away from the crossover frequency the speaker being rolled off has less influence on the other. At the crossover point the sound waves need to be aligned at the listening position or you'll get a "hole".

Due to the nature of crossovers plus typically different physical location of mains and sub(s), physical distance is unreliable. You can use several means to correct the phase at the crossover point. One of the easiest, if not most precise, is to use an SPL meter (or even your ears), play a test tone at the crossover frequency, and adjust the sub's phase for the loudest signal at the listening location.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:31 PM
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Cancellation at the crossover point is the main reason having that phase knob is so important and why a lot of room correction programs may fail to provide good results. Away from the crossover frequency the speaker being rolled off has less influence on the other. At the crossover point the sound waves need to be aligned at the listening position or you'll get a "hole".

Due to the nature of crossovers plus typically different physical location of mains and sub(s), physical distance is unreliable. You can use several means to correct the phase at the crossover point. One of the easiest, if not most precise, is to use an SPL meter (or even your ears), play a test tone at the crossover frequency, and adjust the sub's phase for the loudest signal at the listening location.
Yes, that's the easy way to do it and that's the way I did. Only trusting in my ears. After that I do a fine tuning playing my favorite jazz song, Bali Run by Fourplay and He Won't Go by Adele. The bass track in He Won't Go is so clear and detailed that this song is one of my favorites for bass tuning.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Cancellation at the crossover point is the main reason having that phase knob is so important and why a lot of room correction programs may fail to provide good results. Away from the crossover frequency the speaker being rolled off has less influence on the other. At the crossover point the sound waves need to be aligned at the listening position or you'll get a "hole".

Due to the nature of crossovers plus typically different physical location of mains and sub(s), physical distance is unreliable. You can use several means to correct the phase at the crossover point. One of the easiest, if not most precise, is to use an SPL meter (or even your ears), play a test tone at the crossover frequency, and adjust the sub's phase for the loudest signal at the listening location.
AKA subwoofer crawl but without moving the subwoofer all around the room.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:40 PM
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You'd hate how I did it, test equipment and all that science junk, but as long as we both enjoy the music at the end it's all good!

I have several issues with the subwoofer crawl thingie but this ain't the place...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a sticky thread on how to set up a sub, am I overlooking this? I'm looking for a good overview of what to do when my new Rythmik FV15HP arrives, e.g. tips for doing an effective sub crawl, best music to choose for that purpose, tips on optimal sub settings, etc.
Here's a document that I did for a friend a few years back when he bought a Rythmik. It's an aggregation of info from numerous sources so I don't take any credit (or responsibility ) for the information...none of it is etched in stone, so use or disregard any of the info, as you see fit. The document has evolved a lot since I originally did it and is decidedly Audyssey-centric but should be applicable to other REQ systems, if nothing else, it has a bunch of links to helpful references.

YMMV.

HTH
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File Type: zip Dialing-in Rythmik Subwoofers_2016-11-01.zip (57.1 KB, 4 views)

Salk STRT / SongCtr-RT / SongSurr I ; Rythmik F12 (x2) (latest ver of my setup guide) ; Denon 4520CI; D-Sonic M2-800S; Oppo BDP93; Panny 65VT50; BJCables; NAS DLNA; Chromecast; Harmony One; Furman Elite-15 PFi; Omnimic & REW; CalMAN 5 HT i1D3 & i1Pro2 ::Headphones:: RPi3 w/Digi+ > AGD DAC19 > Cavalli LC > HFM HE400i & Meze 99 Classics :: CCA > Schiit Bifrost 4490 > Schiit Valhalla > Senn HD600 :: FooB2K > Schiit Modi2U > Schiit Magni2U > Oppo PM3

Last edited by laulau; 11-01-2016 at 06:23 PM. Reason: updated zip attachment
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
My two subwoofers (F12SE) are nearfield, one on each side of my couch but even with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT I get cancellation at the crossover point (80Hz). The solution for me is to set the delay for the subwoofer on the left at 11 o'clock and leave untouched whatever my Marantz SR7008 set for distance. The delay for the subwoofer on the right is set at 0 (7 o'clock). My point here is even with SubEQ HT you may need to trick some parameters in one of the subwoofers. Also I strongly recommend to trust more in your ears than in REW or any other measurement tool.
Well I hope I don't run into this issue after just dropping a grand expecting it to pay big dividends on my system.

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:20 PM
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^^^Maybe this will be less of an issue for me or non existant since both of my subs will be on opposite corners of my living room. I'll find out soon enough.

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by laulau View Post
Here's a document that I did for a friend a few years back when he bought a Rythmik. It's an aggregation of info from numerous sources so I don't take any credit (or responsibility) for the information...none of it is etched in stone, so use or disregard any of the info, as you see fit. The document has evolved a lot since I originally did it and is decidedly Audyssey-centric, but if nothing else, it has a bunch of links to helpful references.

YMMV.

HTH
Great, this looks really helpful!
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:27 PM
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Well I hope I don't run into this issue after just dropping a grand expecting it to pay big dividends on my system.
I think the point is that worst case it's correctable with phase adjustments on the subs, plus XT32 should help a lot. You're definitely moving in the right direction. I updated my receiver from a Denon 1909 to the 4311ci and love it. Not one regret.

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Old 06-27-2014, 07:16 PM
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IIRC, using Rythmik LFE in defeats its phase adjustment. Only line in enables that. One can adjust sub distances from the avr which is similar to adjusting the sub phase knob.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:45 PM
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IIRC, using Rythmik LFE in defeats its phase adjustment. Only line in enables that. One can adjust sub distances from the avr which is similar to adjusting the sub phase knob.
That's correct, LFE IN bypass crossover and delay functions but I don't use LFE IN, I use LINE IN and set the low pass filter on AVR/12.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
That's correct, LFE IN bypass crossover and delay functions but I don't use LFE IN, I use LINE IN and set the low pass filter on AVR/12.
Enrico, how clean, as far as THD %, do you think a pair of F12's would play a 16 Hz tone at 90 dB in room? If this is ones goal for a dual sealed sub setup, what would your recommendation be? Looking for seamless integration with main speakers i.e. unable to detect that separate subs are playing on classical music.
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:01 PM
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Enrico, how clean, as far as THD %, do you think a pair of F12's would play a 16 Hz tone at 90 dB in room? If this is ones goal for a dual sealed sub setup, what would your recommendation be? Looking for seamless integration with main speakers i.e. unable to detect that separate subs are playing on classical music.
Let me check and I'll get back to you as soon I'm done with the test. But like I said before I'm the kind of guy that trust more in his ears than in measurements tools.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:10 PM
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OK. I did the test and I got 90dB with the volume set on the AVR at -23dB. My system is calibrated at 75dB but I run my subwoofers +6dB hot. Of course at 16Hz my windows were shaking but it was very clean. My room is about 2700 cf and very well treated acoustically.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Enrico, how clean, as far as THD %, do you think a pair of F12's would play a 16 Hz tone at 90 dB in room? If this is ones goal for a dual sealed sub setup, what would your recommendation be? Looking for seamless integration with main speakers i.e. unable to detect that separate subs are playing on classical music.
If your room is around 2800 cf, two F12s should be more than enough to archive your goal. I guess you listen to a lot of organ music, right? Also the integration with my main speakers is so perfect that even having one of my subwoofers next to me (3 ft) I can't detect from where the bass is coming.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:26 PM
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Guys,

Count me in as a happy owner of a Rythmik sub. Just took delivery of an F12G.

Would like to ask/know how many out there are F12G owners? Set-up was wrong and will have to re-run Audyssey based on laulau's excellent write-up on initial settings at the amp.

Thanks laulau

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Old 06-27-2014, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Also I strongly recommend to trust more in your ears than in REW or any other measurement tool.
Your ears are great because they interpret what YOU like, or "preference". However, they are abysmal in trying to determine if you're reproducing the response accurately, or to "reference" (flat response).


Depends what your goals are...
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Your ears are great because they interpret what YOU like, or "preference". However, they are abysmal in trying to determine if you're reproducing the response accurately, or to "reference" (flat response).


Depends what your goals are...
My goal is to enjoy music, plain and simple. And because is thru my ears that music gets into my brain then I trust in my ears. As a FOH sound engineer for 25 years I learned that you need to trust in you ears more than anything. When you are in front of your desk mixing live you don't have time to take measurements, the only tool you have is your ears. Also flat response is boring
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by laulau View Post
Here's a document that I did for a friend a few years back when he bought a Rythmik. It's an aggregation of info from numerous sources so I don't take any credit (or responsibility) for the information...none of it is etched in stone, so use or disregard any of the info, as you see fit. The document has evolved a lot since I originally did it and is decidedly Audyssey-centric, but if nothing else, it has a bunch of links to helpful references.

YMMV.

HTH
Hi laulau,

Thanks for this, it's greatly appreciated. It should be included as a sticky.

Would like some clarification under item 2. Recommended initial setup when using an AVR. Your write-up mentions that for sealed subs the extension should be set to mid damping before running the room EQ.

In the handout from Brian, he recommends low damping.

I can only assume that Brian's rec is more correct as one can go up through mid to high damping after room EQ.

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Old 06-28-2014, 12:29 AM
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I've got Focal 716V 2.5-way towers, matching center, and older JMLab Tantal 507 bookshelf rears, powered by a Denon X2000. I have a Rythmik FV15HP sub on the way. Any advice on where to set the crossover point between the speakers and sub?

I figured I'd start with the textbook 80hz "small" speaker setting, but obviously my speakers (even the rears) can go a lot lower than that. To be clear, this is for home theater. For music (I listen to a lot of classical, especially solo and chamber) I'm guessing I'll prefer to let the towers do their stereo thing via the "pure direct" mode and turn off the sub.

Of course there'll be some classical music (organ, and even orchestral) where I'll want the sub to supplement the towers, in a perfect world I'd have two crossover settings, maybe an 80hz one for home theater and a 40hz one for music where I want the sub, but I don't think the Denon will allow me to store two different crossover settings (by all means correct me if I'm mistaken).
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Hi laulau,

Thanks for this, it's greatly appreciated. It should be included as a sticky.

Would like some clarification under item 2. Recommended initial setup when using an AVR. Your write-up mentions that for sealed subs the extension should be set to mid damping before running the room EQ.

In the handout from Brian, he recommends low damping.

I can only assume that Brian's rec is more correct as one can go up through mid to high damping after room EQ.

You're right, there is a disparity between what is in paragraph 4 of the PEQ Installation Guide and what was posted in post #6240. However, in post #8127 Brian provided further reasoning for using Mid damping, so I've always gone with the Mid damping setting. A person could always just try both approaches and see which one works better for them. Experimenting can be fun.

Aloha.

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Old 06-28-2014, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
My goal is to enjoy music, plain and simple. And because is thru my ears that music gets into my brain then I trust in my ears. As a FOH sound engineer for 25 years I learned that you need to trust in you ears more than anything. When you are in front of your desk mixing live you don't have time to take measurements, the only tool you have is your ears. Also flat response is boring
Boring to you, but accurate to the industry.

Mixers most definitely have to use their ears to record...and I know they do an excellent job. But that's the reason I want a flat response and use measuring gear to achieve it! I want to experience what the mixer wanted me to hear accurately (reference), not my personal flavor of it (preference).

Having said that, for movies I run my bass hot, but it is still a flat bass response, just elevated.

Not trying to start a debate here of what sounds better, reference or preference. Just pointing out different approaches...depends on your goals as I said before.

Last edited by dominguez1; 06-28-2014 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 06-28-2014, 07:41 AM
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So I decided that before I buy the Denon X4000 online I would pick it up at my local Best Buy to test it out. I sure am glad I took this approach. Hooked everything up yesterday moved one subwoofer to the back left corner of the room next to the MLP and the other stayed in the front right corner of the room. Ran through the complete calibration via Audyssey and was highly disappointed with the results afterwards. My speakers sounded the same and the subs sounded worse. I got no hard hitting bass next to the MLP like I was expecting. I guess this is a good thing because now I can scratch the need for a new receiver off my list. I'm not saying that the Denon X4000 is bad receiver. It simply did not do wonders for my system.

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