Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 539 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4095Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #16141 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 07:05 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 11,471
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 6113
^REW and a Mini DSP would be a much better approach. Not to mention a lot cheaper(200.00). The majority of folks that swear by audyssey do not measure the response(not implying everybody) and assume its doing such a great job. While some have had great results with it, there are many that have had the exact opposite experience. Spend some time researching the members that have "super systems" and you will see that audyssey is not relied upon to handle the sub EQ duties.You will find the Mini DSP 2x1, 10x10, Open Dirac, and Jriver popular choices.
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #16142 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 07:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 4,962
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1729 Post(s)
Liked: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Boring to you, but accurate to the industry.

Mixers most definitely have to use their ears to record...and I know they do an excellent job. But that's the reason I want a flat response and use measuring gear to achieve it! I want to experience what the mixer wanted me to hear accurately (reference), not my personal flavor of it (preference).

Having said that, for movies I run my bass hot, but it is still a flat bass response, just elevated.

Not trying to start a debate here of what sounds better, reference or preference. Just pointing out different approaches...depends on your goals as I said before.
My opinion is measure and do what you can to achieve a flat response, then adjust from there to taste.
bear123 is online now  
post #16143 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 08:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1439 Post(s)
Liked: 959
The FV15HP is extreme!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	extremez.jpg
Views:	432
Size:	98.7 KB
ID:	139802  

Display - LG OLED
Receiver - Denon
Speakers - Klipsch
Subs - Rythmik
JT78681 is online now  
 
post #16144 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 08:29 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 11,471
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 6113
^ from 2012...
basshead81 is offline  
post #16145 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 08:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1439 Post(s)
Liked: 959
I know I was looking for something and stumbled upon it.

Display - LG OLED
Receiver - Denon
Speakers - Klipsch
Subs - Rythmik
JT78681 is online now  
post #16146 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 08:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1351 Post(s)
Liked: 588
I was a lot happier with Dirac than Audyssey. I'd definitely recommend Dirac Live or the Dirac MiniDSPs. I did like Audyssey XT32 a lot better than prior variants of Audyssey, though. XT32 was the first time I preferred room correction over no room correction, but once I tried Dirac, I couldn't go back to Audyssey.

I'm not sure how much of the difference is Dirac's algorithm vs. Dirac curve editing and iteration, but I am sure I liked the end result.
rossandwendy and basshead81 like this.
rcohen is offline  
post #16147 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 11:07 AM
Senior Member
 
niccolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I've got Focal 716V 2.5-way towers, matching center, and older JMLab Tantal 507 bookshelf rears, powered by a Denon X2000. I have a Rythmik FV15HP sub on the way. Any advice on where to set the crossover point between the speakers and sub?

I figured I'd start with the textbook 80hz "small" speaker setting, but obviously my speakers (even the rears) can go a lot lower than that. To be clear, this is for home theater. For music (I listen to a lot of classical, especially solo and chamber) I'm guessing I'll prefer to let the towers do their stereo thing via the "pure direct" mode and turn off the sub.

Of course there'll be some classical music (organ, and even orchestral) where I'll want the sub to supplement the towers, in a perfect world I'd have two crossover settings, maybe an 80hz one for home theater and a 40hz one for music where I want the sub, but I don't think the Denon will allow me to store two different crossover settings (by all means correct me if I'm mistaken).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
The FV15HP is extreme!
Yep. I have an open floorplan so the sub is going to have to pressurize a lot of air. I wanted to go for something much more modest, like the LV12R, but finally decided in my space it was unlikely to be sufficient. Of course sufficient is relative, I'm sure lots of folks would want at least two subs in my space...
niccolo is offline  
post #16148 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 02:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jahjd2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
So I decided that before I buy the Denon X4000 online I would pick it up at my local Best Buy to test it out. I sure am glad I took this approach. Hooked everything up yesterday moved one subwoofer to the back left corner of the room next to the MLP and the other stayed in the front right corner of the room. Ran through the complete calibration via Audyssey and was highly disappointed with the results afterwards. My speakers sounded the same and the subs sounded worse. I got no hard hitting bass next to the MLP like I was expecting. I guess this is a good thing because now I can scratch the need for a new receiver off my list. I'm not saying that the Denon X4000 is bad receiver. It simply did not do wonders for my system.
The sub likely sounds worst due to placement, not the AVR. If one is expecting a huge difference in sound switching from one AVR to another he/she will be disappointed. Your speakers will benefit from the additional wattage allowing you to play them louder with less distortion, but at moderate to lower volumes the difference in sound is probably marginal at best.

What I like about the higher end Denon models is Dynamic EQ/Volume. 80% of the time I have mine set to the 'Midnight' setting which boosts vocals, tames volume peaks, and adds a bit of depth to the bass for a fuller sound. This was a big step up from the lower end Denon I upgraded from, the 1909. I would also think about other features you may need down the road...4K pass through, etc.

Not trying to sell you on the Denon. Based on what you're looking for, your money is probably best spent on another sub or upgrading your speakers.

Dolby Atmos 5.1.4
Denon x6200
Ascend Acoustics Towers and Horizon Center (NrT)
RSL 34CE in-ceilings (4)
Rythmik E15HP

Last edited by Jahjd2000; 06-28-2014 at 02:18 PM.
Jahjd2000 is offline  
post #16149 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 04:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,968
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post
80% of the time I have mine set to the 'Midnight' setting which boosts vocals, tames volume peaks, and adds a bit of depth to the bass for a fuller sound.
DynVol compresses sound. I have mine turned off all the time and only have DynEQ turned on.
tvuong is online now  
post #16150 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 04:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jahjd2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
DynVol compresses sound. I have mine turned off all the time and only have DynEQ turned on.
I like DynVol because it boosts the mid range making vocals more intelligible and it reduces the dynamic range. For critical listen I usually turn both off.

Dolby Atmos 5.1.4
Denon x6200
Ascend Acoustics Towers and Horizon Center (NrT)
RSL 34CE in-ceilings (4)
Rythmik E15HP
Jahjd2000 is offline  
post #16151 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 04:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,968
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
So I decided that before I buy the Denon X4000 online I would pick it up at my local Best Buy to test it out. I sure am glad I took this approach. Hooked everything up yesterday moved one subwoofer to the back left corner of the room next to the MLP and the other stayed in the front right corner of the room. Ran through the complete calibration via Audyssey and was highly disappointed with the results afterwards. My speakers sounded the same and the subs sounded worse. I got no hard hitting bass next to the MLP like I was expecting. I guess this is a good thing because now I can scratch the need for a new receiver off my list. I'm not saying that the Denon X4000 is bad receiver. It simply did not do wonders for my system.
How did you have your subs hooked up to the x4000? I assume each of the x4000 sub out to Rythmik LFEs in? Did you use gain match technique to gain match your subs? Did you bump up both subs channels about 3-6db, turned DynEQ on and DynVol off, set speakers to small with 80hz crossover or so, set bass as LFE with the default 120hz after auto calibration? It's hard to believe the x4000 does not improve over your old Denon 1713.
tvuong is online now  
post #16152 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 04:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,968
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post
I like DynVol because it boosts the mid range making vocals more intelligible and it reduces the dynamic range. For critical listen I usually turn both off.
You can always boost your center channel up and leave DynVol off. I know it is personal preference but just want you to understand that DynVol compresses sound. DynEQ boosts bass and surrounds based on your MV level below zero.
tvuong is online now  
post #16153 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 04:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1439 Post(s)
Liked: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
How did you have your subs hooked up to the x4000? I assume each of the x4000 sub out to Rythmik LFEs in? Did you use gain match technique to gain match your subs? Did you bump up both subs channels about 3-6db, turned DynEQ on and DynVol off, set speakers to small with 80hz crossover or so, set bass as LFE with the default 120hz after auto calibration? It's hard to believe the x4000 does not improve over your old Denon 1713.
I did everything you stated above. Looks like the b-stock FV15HP is gone. I'll have to wait until another one pops up.
JT78681 is online now  
post #16154 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 05:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1439 Post(s)
Liked: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Yep. I have an open floorplan so the sub is going to have to pressurize a lot of air. I wanted to go for something much more modest, like the LV12R, but finally decided in my space it was unlikely to be sufficient. Of course sufficient is relative, I'm sure lots of folks would want at least two subs in my space...
You're in for a real treat. You will probably freak out once you take delivery at the sheer size of the package. It's a monster, but has finesse. Post pics once you get it.
JT78681 is online now  
post #16155 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 05:20 PM
Senior Member
 
niccolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
I did everything you stated above. Looks like the b-stock FV15HP is gone. I'll have to wait until another one pops up.
Sorry, I nabbed the b-stock. I'd been on the fence, and the discount was enough to push me over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
You're in for a real treat. You will probably freak out once you take delivery at the sheer size of the package. It's a monster, but has finesse. Post pics once you get it.
Yeah, 140 pounds shipping weight!
niccolo is offline  
post #16156 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 05:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,304
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1439 Post(s)
Liked: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Sorry, I nabbed the b-stock. I'd been on the fence, and the discount was enough to push me over it.



Yeah, 140 pounds shipping weight!
It was you!!!! Lol that's funny. I already have two so I can't possibly be mad. Another one will pop up eventually.
JT78681 is online now  
post #16157 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 06:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
qguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,136
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Not sure if this was asked before, in the dual subwoofer system, how does the servo control 2 subwoofers, are there 2 servos to react to each subwoofers or its assumed that both woofers would behave the same 2 way ?
qguy is offline  
post #16158 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 07:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,812
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1244 Post(s)
Liked: 1313
The HX800XLR3 amp has two separate amplifier modules (400 watts each). Each amplifier module has its own servo module as well.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL & Sierra 2s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
enricoclaudio is offline  
post #16159 of 29593 Old 06-28-2014, 07:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
Blacklightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Edmonton,AB Canada
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 415 Post(s)
Liked: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Enrico, how clean, as far as THD %, do you think a pair of F12's would play a 16 Hz tone at 90 dB in room? If this is ones goal for a dual sealed sub setup, what would your recommendation be? Looking for seamless integration with main speakers i.e. unable to detect that separate subs are playing on classical music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
OK. I did the test and I got 90dB with the volume set on the AVR at -23dB. My system is calibrated at 75dB but I run my subwoofers +6dB hot. Of course at 16Hz my windows were shaking but it was very clean. My room is about 2700 cf and very well treated acoustically.
Thanks you two very much, you have sealed the deal on me getting a Rythmik sub. This was the information I was looking for. My room is smaller and sealed so me organ stuff should sound/feel nice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Guys,

Count me in as a happy owner of a Rythmik sub. Just took delivery of an F12G.

Would like to ask/know how many out there are F12G owners? Set-up was wrong and will have to re-run Audyssey based on laulau's excellent write-up on initial settings at the amp.

Thanks laulau
I wish more F12g onwers were here. I think they hang out in another forum. I would love to get a F12g but my first step is going to be used so I will be waiting a long time for one to be for sale in my part of Canada.
Blacklightning is offline  
post #16160 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 01:39 AM
Senior Member
 
laulau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 50th state
Posts: 492
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Hi laulau,

Thanks for this, it's greatly appreciated. It should be included as a sticky.

@steveting99 & @niccolo ;

I've updated the document with the AVS hyperlinks repaired, I hadn't realized the recent forum upgrades had broken the links. Glad you're finding it helpful.
niccolo likes this.

Salk STRT / SongCtr-RT / SongSurr I ; Rythmik F12 (x2) (latest ver of setup guide) ; Denon 4520; DSonic M2-800S; Oppo BDP93; Panny 65VT50; BJCables; CCast; FireTV ; Furman Elite15PFi; Omnimic/REW; CalMAN5 HT i1D3/i1Pro2
HPs
::
RPi3Digi+ > AGD DAC19 > Cavalli LC > HFM HE400i :: Rpi3Digi+Pro > Schiit Bifrost 4490 > Schiit Valhalla > Senn HD600 & HD6XX ::
RPi3Digi+Pro > Schiit Mimby > Schiit Vali 2 > Meze 99 Classics :: FB2K >Schiit Modi2U >Schiit Magni2U > Oppo PM3
laulau is offline  
post #16161 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 05:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1351 Post(s)
Liked: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Hi laulau,

Thanks for this, it's greatly appreciated. It should be included as a sticky.

Would like some clarification under item 2. Recommended initial setup when using an AVR. Your write-up mentions that for sealed subs the extension should be set to mid damping before running the room EQ.

In the handout from Brian, he recommends low damping.

I can only assume that Brian's rec is more correct as one can go up through mid to high damping after room EQ.
Mid gives a steeper rolloff than high. That makes it easier for auto-EQ to recognize the low frequency limits of the sub, so it stops boosting at the appropriate frequency. Boosting below the limit can chew up tons of power and hurt the sound. Audyssey is inconsistent about automatically detecting the limit on high, and it's hard to tell when it screws this up. I think Audyssey looks for the -6db point prior to EQ, or something like that. So, that's why Brian recommends running Audyssey at medium, even if you intend to run on high.

When using more sophisticated (less automated) EQ software, you can manually set the low frequency limit. In that case, it's fine to use the setting during EQ that you're actually going to run it at.

Aside from auto-EQ, high gives a slower rolloff, more coherent phase, and less ringing, but it is the least efficient. Low gives a steep rolloff, is much more power efficient, and uses up less driver extension per db of volume. Mid is in-between.

If you have a lot of power relative to your room size, I think high sounds best. If you need more clean power/headroom going to mid/low and/or increasing the high-pass frequency may be best for you. If you need more power, but really want that high setting, try corner loading, near-field placement, and/or adding more subs.
rcohen is offline  
post #16162 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 09:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jahjd2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post
@steveting99 & @niccolo ;

I've updated the document with the AVS hyperlinks repaired, I hadn't realized the recent forum upgrades had broken the links. Glad you're finding it helpful.
Laulau, thanks for providing and maintaining this document. I'm about to order my second E15HP so I'll try this procedure.

As an aside, howzit! I grew up on Oahu too. Moved to San Diego for college and then work. I noticed in your signature that you have high end gear...shipping must have been a small fortune!

Dolby Atmos 5.1.4
Denon x6200
Ascend Acoustics Towers and Horizon Center (NrT)
RSL 34CE in-ceilings (4)
Rythmik E15HP
Jahjd2000 is offline  
post #16163 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 01:11 PM
Senior Member
 
laulau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 50th state
Posts: 492
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post
Laulau, thanks for providing and maintaining this document. I'm about to order my second E15HP so I'll try this procedure.

As an aside, howzit! I grew up on Oahu too. Moved to San Diego for college and then work. I noticed in your signature that you have high end gear...shipping must have been a small fortune!
Howzit bruddah! Yup, I try to buy as much as I can from Amazon and Crutchfield who can ship free to Hawaii, but sometimes you just gotta eat the "Paradise Tax". The shipping charges on my speakers alone would've paid for a respectable 5.0 system (full disclosure: I opted for the more expensive FEDEX gorillas vs. the cheaper freight shipping gorillas). The shipping on my Rythmiks was actually pretty reasonable, IMO, as Brian explored numerous options to find the best value for me...one of the many reasons why I'm a long-time Rythmik fan.
Jahjd2000 likes this.

Salk STRT / SongCtr-RT / SongSurr I ; Rythmik F12 (x2) (latest ver of setup guide) ; Denon 4520; DSonic M2-800S; Oppo BDP93; Panny 65VT50; BJCables; CCast; FireTV ; Furman Elite15PFi; Omnimic/REW; CalMAN5 HT i1D3/i1Pro2
HPs
::
RPi3Digi+ > AGD DAC19 > Cavalli LC > HFM HE400i :: Rpi3Digi+Pro > Schiit Bifrost 4490 > Schiit Valhalla > Senn HD600 & HD6XX ::
RPi3Digi+Pro > Schiit Mimby > Schiit Vali 2 > Meze 99 Classics :: FB2K >Schiit Modi2U >Schiit Magni2U > Oppo PM3
laulau is offline  
post #16164 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 07:07 PM
Senior Member
 
niccolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I've got Focal 716V 2.5-way towers, matching center, and older JMLab Tantal 507 bookshelf rears, powered by a Denon X2000. I have a Rythmik FV15HP sub on the way. Any advice on where to set the crossover point between the speakers and sub?

I figured I'd start with the textbook 80hz "small" speaker setting, but obviously my speakers (even the rears) can go a lot lower than that. To be clear, this is for home theater. For music (I listen to a lot of classical, especially solo and chamber) I'm guessing I'll prefer to let the towers do their stereo thing via the "pure direct" mode and turn off the sub.

Of course there'll be some classical music (organ, and even orchestral) where I'll want the sub to supplement the towers, in a perfect world I'd have two crossover settings, maybe an 80hz one for home theater and a 40hz one for music where I want the sub, but I don't think the Denon will allow me to store two different crossover settings (by all means correct me if I'm mistaken).
Okay, so my towers are rated to 50 hz, my center is rated to 61 hz, and my surrounds are rated to 62 hz (which surprises me, they feel like they hit fairly low, in a large space without corner loading). So I'm thinking the standard 80 hz crossover to the sub is probably the best choice, though I could perhaps go as low as 60 hz to let the towers do their thing more on music.
niccolo is offline  
post #16165 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 07:24 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 11,471
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 6113
^I would run the crossover as high as possible(80-100hz) before localization becomes a issue. I am betting the Rythmik sub will do a much better job then your mains handling any bass below 100hz.
basshead81 is offline  
post #16166 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 07:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
steveting99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3,383
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1838 Post(s)
Liked: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Mid gives a steeper rolloff than high. That makes it easier for auto-EQ to recognize the low frequency limits of the sub, so it stops boosting at the appropriate frequency. Boosting below the limit can chew up tons of power and hurt the sound. Audyssey is inconsistent about automatically detecting the limit on high, and it's hard to tell when it screws this up. I think Audyssey looks for the -6db point prior to EQ, or something like that. So, that's why Brian recommends running Audyssey at medium, even if you intend to run on high.

When using more sophisticated (less automated) EQ software, you can manually set the low frequency limit. In that case, it's fine to use the setting during EQ that you're actually going to run it at.

Aside from auto-EQ, high gives a slower rolloff, more coherent phase, and less ringing, but it is the least efficient. Low gives a steep rolloff, is much more power efficient, and uses up less driver extension per db of volume. Mid is in-between.

If you have a lot of power relative to your room size, I think high sounds best. If you need more clean power/headroom going to mid/low and/or increasing the high-pass frequency may be best for you. If you need more power, but really want that high setting, try corner loading, near-field placement, and/or adding more subs.
rcohen,

I'm trying to look for the graphs in Rythmik which shows what you've described in words above. The only I've found on the website related to the damping is here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers_info.html

It says that low damping is a bessel filter with Q=0.7. Mid damping acts as a Chebyshev filter has a +1.5dB boost and Q=1.07, while high damping is still a Chebyshev filter with 3dB boost and Q=1.33.

Recall from the Audyssey FAQ that the algorithm looks for the F3 of each speaker - including the sub. I can understand that with a step roll off, Audyssey correction (boost) will be less after the F3. So the intent is to trick Audyssey into thinking that Rythmik sub drops sharply at the frequency extension setting (say 14Hz) using the low damping switch. After running Audyssey, one can then change to high damping where the drop is more gradual.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, Harmony Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
steveting99 is offline  
post #16167 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 08:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1351 Post(s)
Liked: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
rcohen,

I'm trying to look for the graphs in Rythmik which shows what you've described in words above. The only I've found on the website related to the damping is here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers_info.html

It says that low damping is a bessel filter with Q=0.7. Mid damping acts as a Chebyshev filter has a +1.5dB boost and Q=1.07, while high damping is still a Chebyshev filter with 3dB boost and Q=1.33.

Recall from the Audyssey FAQ that the algorithm looks for the F3 of each speaker - including the sub. I can understand that with a step roll off, Audyssey correction (boost) will be less after the F3. So the intent is to trick Audyssey into thinking that Rythmik sub drops sharply at the frequency extension setting (say 14Hz) using the low damping switch. After running Audyssey, one can then change to high damping where the drop is more gradual.
This one may be helpful:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/eq.html

Please correct me if I have made a mistake. For starters, it sounds like Audyssey looks for the -3db point, rather than -6db.
steveting99 likes this.

Last edited by rcohen; 06-29-2014 at 08:31 PM.
rcohen is offline  
post #16168 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 08:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,968
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1672 Post(s)
Liked: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
^I would run the crossover as high as possible(80-100hz) before localization becomes a issue. I am betting the Rythmik sub will do a much better job then your mains handling any bass below 100hz.
+1. My front towers were measured almost flat to 30hz, my center was almost flat to 60hz by REW and I have them Xovered at 80hz. Sub is doing a much better job at those frequencies and below. On top of that, one can bump up sub channel for more bass without increasing the overall volume.
tvuong is online now  
post #16169 of 29593 Old 06-29-2014, 10:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
steveting99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3,383
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1838 Post(s)
Liked: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
This one may be helpful:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/eq.html

Please correct me if I have made a mistake. For starters, it sounds like Audyssey looks for the -3db point, rather than -6db.
rcohen,

Thanks for the Rythmik web link - just what I was looking for! The low damp setting does have the steepest roll off (at all frequency extension settings) and this is what I'll be setting to before running Audyssey. The steeper roll off will tell Audyssey not to correct for below the F3 (-3dB) point of the sub. After the room correction has done its thing, I can then change the damping to mid or high to have a more gentle roll off in the room.

I've got all the info needed now to carry out the Audyssey setup.

After Audyssey, will most likely set it to high damping as this seems to be what most have done.

Edit: Audyssey measures down to the -3dB (F3) point of the speaker and applies its correction filters. Anything beyond the F3 isn't corrected by Audyssey.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, Harmony Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.

Last edited by steveting99; 06-30-2014 at 01:39 AM. Reason: clarification on Audyssey
steveting99 is offline  
post #16170 of 29593 Old 06-30-2014, 01:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1351 Post(s)
Liked: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
rcohen,

Thanks for the Rythmik web link - just what I was looking for! The low damp setting does have the steepest roll off (at all frequency extension settings) and this is what I'll be setting to before running Audyssey. The steeper roll off will tell Audyssey not to correct for below the F3 (-3dB) point of the sub. After the room correction has done its thing, I can then change the damping to mid or high to have a more gentle roll off in the room.

I've got all the info needed now to carry out the Audyssey setup.

After Audyssey, will most likely set it to high damping as this seems to be what most have done.
I think Brian was suggesting that mid damp would be do the job, and to watch out for running Audyssey with high damp. I don't know that it's necessary to go all the way to low, but maybe sometimes. Perhaps it depends on room gain.
rcohen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off