Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 541 - AVS Forum
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post #16201 of 16330 Old 07-03-2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
And one more question. My sub is about a 27-ft cable run from my AVR. If I don't run the wire strictly against the base of the wall, I could make a 25-ft cable work, or I could go for a 35-ft one. I'm leaning toward the former, I'm thinking the 25-ft is going to be preferable in terms of avoiding noise/hum. Though for what it's worth, I'm currently using a 50-ft unshielded standard RCA cable, and I don't detect any noise/hum in the sub feed. I'm planning to purchase this cable (http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-UL...+%2835+Feet%29), which the Rythmik folks recommended.
35ft
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post #16202 of 16330 Old 07-03-2014, 06:19 PM
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35ft
Because hum is not actually a problem and it'll give me more placement flexibility?
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post #16203 of 16330 Old 07-03-2014, 06:35 PM
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Because hum is not actually a problem and it'll give me more placement flexibility?
Exactly.
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post #16204 of 16330 Old 07-03-2014, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Audyssey set the sub at -5 dB once I turned the sub volume down those six clicks lower than 50 percent to get the number into the -3 to -6 range (doesn't having my sub volume this low mean I'm not really taking advantage of the capabilities of the sub amp?). All my speakers have a similar negative compensation, which seems odd to me, i.e. I would have expected at least some to be at zero compensation, because compensation is relative.

So if I want to run the sub hot, I manually tweak the Audyssey settings? Out of curiosity, why the instruction to do so at the AVR and not sub? And I suppose precisely where the sub gets set is purely subjective, at least in the absence of an SPL meter?
niccolo,

AVS member Keith Barnes has written a very informative Audyssey FAQ here: "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779), since your Denon receiver has XT, try the close mic measurement technique and check if the bass improves.

As far as adjusting the bass levels to taste, best to do this on the AVR than on the sub. The reason being is that it makes it easier to return to a known starting point if you decide to go back or change to another value. Adjusting the trims does not in any way invalidate the calibration but it may affect the way Audyssey Dynamic EQ works.

You might want to check the crossover frequency splice done on the AVR and see if the transition between the speakers and sub is smooth. The technique to do this is called the sub-distance tweak and unfortunately it will require measurement gear like REW (free download) + USB mic (preferably the calibrated model).

The good thing about measurement is identifying problems and finding ways to deal with it - up to a point where one can just enjoy the sound reproduction as best as possible in the room.

Maranatz NR1504, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G

Last edited by steveting99; 07-03-2014 at 06:51 PM. Reason: typo on name
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post #16205 of 16330 Old 07-03-2014, 08:22 PM
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Finally got my new FV15HP after some snafus with UPS delivery the past two days.

Started with a sub crawl, using some Bach organ music with some passages on the lowest registers. I could hear some differences between various locations in the room, but not as much as I expected. Perhaps my choice of music wasn't optimal? Ended up selecting the location I thought I would ahead of time, between the right front tower and the center, a few feet off the right wall and a few inches off the back one (with the screen on it)

Then ran Audyssey. I had to lower the sub volume well below 50 percent (6 clicks below 50 percent, to be precise) to get the sub into the preferred Audyssey compensation range of -3 to -6 db. Was struck how quiet the sub sounded during Audyssey, and Audyssey had to re-run the sub calibration tone a few times. Set all speakers to small and all crossovers to 80 hz.

Once set up, put organ music back on again. Sounded reasonable but more modest bass relative to treble than I expected. But might be a function of the quality of the recording.

Put on Cosmos Blu ray with Neil deGrasse Tyson, which has a pretty intense LFE track. Sounds pretty good, but Tyson's very low voice sounds too artificially bassy. Reset crossovers for all speakers to 60 hz. Now sounds closer to normal, Tyson's voice still sounds slightly artificially bassy, but in a pleasing way. And the other low-frequency effects still sound fantastic.

That's where I'm at now. Any advice on where to go from here, or how to think about what I'm experiencing?

P.S. I underestimated how deep this thing would be! I factored in the height and width, but the depth really adds to the massiveness of this box in the room. Not that I'm complaining, since it sounds great...
One trick that may help if make voices are too bassy, but you want more bass from music:
Use a lower crossover point for your center channel, and a higher crossover point for your mains. Then, you can try turning up your sub a few db.

This way, the sub will reinforce bass more with LR than C.

Another option if you have per speaker EQ or tone controls: give the center speaker a bit less bass than LR. For the most part, you want the center to be consistent with LR, but tweaking the bass a but doesn't hurt that much at all.

Also, use REW to take some measurements so you can see what you're dealing with.
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post #16206 of 16330 Old 07-04-2014, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
And one more question. My sub is about a 27-ft cable run from my AVR. If I don't run the wire strictly against the base of the wall, I could make a 25-ft cable work, or I could go for a 35-ft one. I'm leaning toward the former, I'm thinking the 25-ft is going to be preferable in terms of avoiding noise/hum. Though for what it's worth, I'm currently using a 50-ft unshielded standard RCA cable, and I don't detect any noise/hum in the sub feed. I'm planning to purchase this cable (http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-UL...+%2835+Feet%29), which the Rythmik folks recommended.
I use the Dayton Audio Sub-Link with my FV15HP and it works well. No issues with Wi-Fi interference. Audyssey is able to correct for the added delay from the wireless kits. I read JT used the Rocketfish wireless subwoofer kit version and it worked well for him. Outlaw Audio also makes a wireless kit that seems to have better specs but it cost more.

It's pretty nice not having to run a wire. I was a little paranoid it would sound worst than a cable so I got a nice LC-1 subwoofer cable from Blue Jeans Cable; I can't tell much of a difference and stuck with the wireless. Another advantage of wireless is you avoid ground loop hum issues.
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post #16207 of 16330 Old 07-04-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by docbrazen View Post
I use the Dayton Audio Sub-Link with my FV15HP and it works well. No issues with Wi-Fi interference. Audyssey is able to correct for the added delay from the wireless kits. I read JT used the Rocketfish wireless subwoofer kit version and it worked well for him. Outlaw Audio also makes a wireless kit that seems to have better specs but it cost more.

It's pretty nice not having to run a wire. I was a little paranoid it would sound worst than a cable so I got a nice LC-1 subwoofer cable from Blue Jeans Cable; I can't tell much of a difference and stuck with the wireless. Another advantage of wireless is you avoid ground loop hum issues.
This is true. Back when I had a single FV I used the RocketFish kit from Best Buy and it worked like a charm. Basshead uses it too with great results. I think it's only $60 bucks. I would go this route first because if it ends up not working out for you it can easily be returned within 30 days.
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post #16208 of 16330 Old 07-04-2014, 04:46 PM
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Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.

Benq W1070 projector
Da-Lite High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver
Focal 700-series towers and center
JMLab Tantal-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #16209 of 16330 Old 07-04-2014, 07:22 PM
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^Guys,

Brian has written in post # 14,148 about wireless connection and some caution is needed in the setup: Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

niccolo,
If you've got a hum issue between the AVR and Rythmik sub, the following might help address it: http://www.amazon.com/ART-DTI-Hum-El...2PQ0CV1VB2MYQQ

If you still have an issue with bass response, the low frequency room measurement is probably the next step to take.

Maranatz NR1504, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
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post #16210 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.
The only reason for a higher crossover would be if you would prefer to have the sub handling those frequencies, for more impact. You might as well try setting your LR crossover to 100-120hz, to see if you like what you hear, and whether that's worth a subtle change in sub-bass when panning. It's not a question of right or wrong, better or worse, just your preference.

Last edited by rcohen; 07-05-2014 at 07:10 AM.
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post #16211 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.
You have the equipment needed to produce some great quality sound. In my opinion, its time to download REW, get a mic, and see what is going on in your room. A bad frequency response won't sound good no matter how loud you can go.

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post #16212 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.
Niccolo, I assume you use 1 port with 14hz high damping. This is the most extended FR with least amount of ringing (overhang) in the bass. Organ is a magnificent instrutment that really shows the depth of sound stage and that can make you feel the sound is recessed. But what brings with it is the sense of size of the "hall". As long as you don't feel all music sounds recessed, it is most likely not a coloration.


If you don't crossover higher than 80hz, you may also try line-in and compare if that gives you a cleaner sound.
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post #16213 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
^Guys,

Brian has written in post # 14,148 about wireless connection and some caution is needed in the setup: Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

niccolo,
If you've got a hum issue between the AVR and Rythmik sub, the following might help address it: http://www.amazon.com/ART-DTI-Hum-El...2PQ0CV1VB2MYQQ

If you still have an issue with bass response, the low frequency room measurement is probably the next step to take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
The only reason for a higher crossover would be if you would prefer to have the sub handling those frequencies, for more impact. You might as well try setting your LR crossover to 100-120hz, to see if you like what you hear, and whether that's worth a subtle change in sub-bass when panning. It's not a question of right or wrong, better or worse, just your preference.
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You have the equipment needed to produce some great quality sound. In my opinion, its time to download REW, get a mic, and see what is going on in your room. A bad frequency response won't sound good no matter how loud you can go.
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
Niccolo, I assume you use 1 port with 14hz high damping. This is the most extended FR with least amount of ringing (overhang) in the bass. Organ is a magnificent instrutment that really shows the depth of sound stage and that can make you feel the sound is recessed. But what brings with it is the sense of size of the "hall". As long as you don't feel all music sounds recessed, it is most likely not a coloration.


If you don't crossover higher than 80hz, you may also try line-in and compare if that gives you a cleaner sound.
Appreciate all the feedback!

I think I'll stick with a wired connection. And for what it's worth, no hum issues I can detect with the 50-ft unshielded RCA cable I'm using as a stop-gap until I get a proper sub cable.

60 hz crossover for all speakers seems to be working well for now, but I'll play around a bit more, especially since my center channel is only rated to 60 hz and my surrounds to 61 hz.

Am using 1 port with 14 hz high damping. Haven't played around with sub settings yet (at least the ones available to me, since I'm using my AVR for bass management). Also using LFE from sub out, but I suppose line-in (I assume from preamp out) might be worth trying.

I might try to redo the sub crawl; at least with the organ music I was playing, I was hard pressed to detect dramatic differences while crawling around. Would I need to somehow delete the Audyssey calibration before undertaking a new sub crawl, i.e. would it compromise my ability to do the sub crawl? Microphone and room evaluation software is probably the next step. Probably won't get to that right away, but likely down the road.

Agreed I've got some great equipment at this point, albeit in a room that's a bit suboptimal, lots of reflective surfaces and towers are much closer to the wall than I'd like, but not to be helped given constraints. But it still sounds great. And it'll only get better as I tweak it!

Benq W1070 projector
Da-Lite High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver
Focal 700-series towers and center
JMLab Tantal-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #16214 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 01:04 PM
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And one more question: I'm currently powering the FV15HP with the power cable that came with it plugged into a nearby outlet. Alternately, I could run a ~30 ft Monoprice replacement cable from the Panamax surge protector through which all of my other equipment is powered. The plus side of this is surge protection for the sub, and having all my equipment on one switch (though with the auto-switch on the sub that doesn't matter so much). The potential downside is that the ~30 ft power cable would need to run alongside my speaker and sub cables, with potential risk of introducing hum/interference.

Maybe best to stick to powering the sub from its own nearby outlet, and maybe running it through a relatively cheap surge protector (not sure if that would affect its ability to draw power)? Or maybe no surge protector at all--my impression is electronics are actually fairly robust to normal power fluctuations and major surges are pretty rare and surge protectors may or may not protect under those circumstances anyway.

Benq W1070 projector
Da-Lite High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver
Focal 700-series towers and center
JMLab Tantal-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #16215 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 02:01 PM
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Brian;
What is the minimum build depth for a single DS800 driver?
6". That will give about 1" clearance.


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Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian
If there is no rear pole vent it should be easy to counter sink the the magnet into the cabinets back panel. Thermal concerns?
It does have rear pole vent.


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Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian
Also need to account for the front grill clearance of the surround at maximum extension.
I guess I'm asking for the DS800 total side profile height + Xmax.

Our commercial version has a 15mm grille.


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Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian
A lot of WAF approved room locations open up if the total cabinet depth can be kept to an absolute minimum. ( think way off the floor : )
I would really like to do In wall's, but that automatically excludes any insulated exterior walls locations.
I rarely recommend in-wall subwoofer because insulation cannot effectively stop energy below 100hz. Another concern is structural rigidity.

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Would a single HX580 drive 4X DS800-6's ?
Shawn

Not quite. If we do that, we will under-utilize the driver. Each driver needs 250WRMS to 300WRMS to get to its max excursion (with margin for transient) As a minimal, we need HX800 to drive 4xDS800-6.
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post #16216 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 09:18 PM
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This isn't particularly relevant to anything, but listening to some solo double bass music (a transcription of the Bach solo cello suites), and the FV15HP does a fantastic job of anchoring the low frequencies, a big improvement over just running the towers (specified down to 40 hz) on their own. Currently crossing over between speakers and sub at 60 hz, and for now that seems like a great sweet spot for me. I didn't realize the sub would so helpful on this sort of classical music.

Benq W1070 projector
Da-Lite High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
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Focal 700-series towers and center
JMLab Tantal-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #16217 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 09:38 PM
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And one more question: I'm currently powering the FV15HP with the power cable that came with it plugged into a nearby outlet. Alternately, I could run a ~30 ft Monoprice replacement cable from the Panamax surge protector through which all of my other equipment is powered. The plus side of this is surge protection for the sub, and having all my equipment on one switch (though with the auto-switch on the sub that doesn't matter so much). The potential downside is that the ~30 ft power cable would need to run alongside my speaker and sub cables, with potential risk of introducing hum/interference.
Putting a power cable of 30ft length is actually worst than having a 30ft speaker cable in terms of power transmission. This is because the power draw from the wall power is in a form of spike draw repeating 120 times a second, instead of constant current draw over time. If the resistance on the power cable (or wiring inside walls) is high, it may no longer be 120V at the other end of power cable. This is the source of power loss or degradation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo
Maybe best to stick to powering the sub from its own nearby outlet, and maybe running it through a relatively cheap surge protector (not sure if that would affect its ability to draw power)? Or maybe no surge protector at all--my impression is electronics are actually fairly robust to normal power fluctuations and major surges are pretty rare and surge protectors may or may not protect under those circumstances anyway.
Unless your home is in a lightning risk area or on a poor power grid, surge protector may not be needed. Surge protector also adds resistance (from internal inductor if there is one). If one has to buy one, get one with sufficient power handling.

Last edited by Rythmik; 07-05-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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post #16218 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 10:19 PM
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Putting a power cable of 30ft length is actually worst than having a 30ft speaker cable in terms of power transmission. This is because the power draw from the wall power is in a form of spike draw repeating 120 times a second, instead of constant current draw over time. If the resistance on the power cable (or wiring inside walls) is high, it may no longer be 120V at the other end of power cable. This is the source of power loss or degradation.


Unless your home is in a lightning risk area or on a poor power grid, surge protector may not be needed. Surge protector also adds resistance (from internal inductor if there is one). If one has to buy one, get one with sufficient power handling.
Interesting, I guess I figured as long as the power cable were a sufficiently high gauge, it wouldn't matter much, so I was more concerned about the power cable having to run alongside the speaker and sub cables. Not sure whether that could create interference.
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post #16219 of 16330 Old 07-05-2014, 11:52 PM
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I'm a relative newbie to the sub world. I was just looking at data-bass out of curiosity, and I could use help interpreting the results for the FV15HP (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63). A few questions:

- I don't understand the basis for the statement: "2 ports open is probably the better all around performance." It seems to me that the increase in output with 2 ports open is rather modest, and the decrease in sub-20 hz response is dramatic. That would seem to explain why most folks here seem to be running their subs in 1-port mode.

- One possible explanation: In 1-port mode, THD has an off-the-charts (literally) peak between about 14 hz and 30 hz. That must be less problematic than it looks to my novice eye, but why?

- What else should (or shouldn't) I be taking from this data? Just trying to educate myself. Appreciate insights!

Benq W1070 projector
Da-Lite High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver
Focal 700-series towers and center
JMLab Tantal-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #16220 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Interesting, I guess I figured as long as the power cable were a sufficiently high gauge, it wouldn't matter much, so I was more concerned about the power cable having to run alongside the speaker and sub cables. Not sure whether that could create interference.
It's usually unbalanced line-level wires where interference is more of a concern. I haven't seen a good reason to run the long power cable, though, unless it's eliminating hum for you. With power, hum is the main concern.
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post #16221 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I'm a relative newbie to the sub world. I was just looking at data-bass out of curiosity, and I could use help interpreting the results for the FV15HP (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63). A few questions:

- I don't understand the basis for the statement: "2 ports open is probably the better all around performance." It seems to me that the increase in output with 2 ports open is rather modest, and the decrease in sub-20 hz response is dramatic. That would seem to explain why most folks here seem to be running their subs in 1-port mode.

- One possible explanation: In 1-port mode, THD has an off-the-charts (literally) peak between about 14 hz and 30 hz. That must be less problematic than it looks to my novice eye, but why?

- What else should (or shouldn't) I be taking from this data? Just trying to educate myself. Appreciate insights!
Those THD graphs are at 110db SPL (loud). 1 port, 14hz, hi damp gives the cleanest output at low SPLs, but 2 ports and/or other filter settings gives you more clean output at high SPLs. It depends on your priority, taste, and room size.

You can see that at 110db, 1 port ran out of power or driver extension at 20hz, while 2 ports ran out of power or driver extension at 12hz.
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post #16222 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
It's usually unbalanced line-level wires where interference is more of a concern. I haven't seen a good reason to run the long power cable, though, unless it's eliminating hum for you. With power, hum is the main concern.
That's my point. The power cable would run alongside unbalanced, line-level speaker cables (and pre-out level sub cable) for tens of feet. Would the power cable potentially put interference onto the speaker and sub cables?

Benq W1070 projector
Da-Lite High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver
Focal 700-series towers and center
JMLab Tantal-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #16223 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 11:38 AM
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On wall 8" subwoofer

Brian
Minimum 8" sub build depth...
15mm front surround clearance +
152mm driver and vent clearance +
19mm rear cabinet thickness
= 182 mm or 7.25" build depth.

That's a bit too deep for WAF approved on wall sub. Sweetheart did allow me 4" for the multiple OC703 broadband absorbers AND complemented me on the improved sound : )

If I could shave an inch off the depth, maybe I could disguise them as full floor to ceiling columns you typically see on the side walls in the AVS "Home Theater of the Month" unobtaininum thread. Hmmmm.

In regard to the amp required to drive 4xDS800-6's....
I was under the impression that the amp's required power to reach X-max was inversely proportional to cabinet's volume.
Remember I am only interested in the minimum build depth not total volume.
If I doubled your recommended 0.75cuft per DS800 would I achieve optimal performance with the HX580 compact amp?

Thank you for your patience with my imagination.
Shawn

Last edited by MarvinTheMartian; 07-06-2014 at 12:00 PM. Reason: HX580
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post #16224 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 01:58 PM
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Need help with non-Rythmik options..

To put it short, I have four F12's in my HT, (almost) everything is good with that setup, and I get very deep response from the subs in that room, have very good output down to at least 10Hz (concrete cellar with heavy acoustic treatment) with support at about 20Hz from the lowest room resonance.

But, since fully satisfied is not a very common state for me (unfortunately), I do miss that extra SPL output capability in the subsonic range. So this is what I want to improve.
I have enough output on almost all material, but then there are a few of them, like the Jurassic Lunch track from Cincinatti Pops The Great Fantasy Adventure Album with 5Hz content where I can hear (have limiters on) that the subs have reached their limit.

I thought of adding (or replacing two F12's) two F25's and perhaps put a LPF at around 30Hz.
Problem is that F25 does not ship to Europe, where I am.
I do want something that can keep up with the quality of the F12's, that's a must to keep the good integration with my Magnepan speakers. This is very important, but do no know how important this is if I have a LPF at 30Hz for two new monsters? And at the same time, I can not be sure I put a LPF at all on them, since I will decide on that after I have measured them in my room with my current setup.

So, I thought the best place to get good advice is from the Rythmic owners, instead of everyone else promoting their own subs.
I also might add that I would prefer to add two bigger subs for this really low freq job, due to placement and layout and response of the room. But I can of course start with one and see if that gives the desired result.

Some ideas, but can not really rate them, and do not have the possibility to listen before buying on all of them.
- Order kits and build own F25's. But I can build myself, so will be quite expensive.
- SVS SB13 Ultra. This is possible to find used.
- Seaton Submersive, but to expensive for me, so then only one can be purchased.
- JTR sealed model, same problem as Seaton.
- Velodyne DD15+ used, new is way to expensive. But also here only one can be purchased.
- Two Rythmik E15's, but not sure they will give enough output that down low.
- ??

Advice with motivation and experiences is appreciated.
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post #16225 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 02:44 PM
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Your opinion needed. Does one F12 integrate well and provide enough bass to enhance stereo speakers such as Magnepan MMGs or Vandersteen 2CE Sig IIs? Think of getting one, since it is described as a fast, musical sub.

Room size is 13.5 ft. by 19.25 ft.

Last edited by psyopwak; 07-06-2014 at 02:50 PM. Reason: add room size
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post #16226 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 03:33 PM
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I happy with my F12s and Magnepan MG-IIIa's. The servo makes Rythmik a great match for planer speakers, electrodynamic or ESL. Or any speaker.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #16227 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post
To put it short, I have four F12's in my HT, (almost) everything is good with that setup, and I get very deep response from the subs in that room, have very good output down to at least 10Hz (concrete cellar with heavy acoustic treatment) with support at about 20Hz from the lowest room resonance.

But, since fully satisfied is not a very common state for me (unfortunately), I do miss that extra SPL output capability in the subsonic range. So this is what I want to improve.
I have enough output on almost all material, but then there are a few of them, like the Jurassic Lunch track from Cincinatti Pops The Great Fantasy Adventure Album with 5Hz content where I can hear (have limiters on) that the subs have reached their limit.

I thought of adding (or replacing two F12's) two F25's and perhaps put a LPF at around 30Hz.
Problem is that F25 does not ship to Europe, where I am.
I do want something that can keep up with the quality of the F12's, that's a must to keep the good integration with my Magnepan speakers. This is very important, but do no know how important this is if I have a LPF at 30Hz for two new monsters? And at the same time, I can not be sure I put a LPF at all on them, since I will decide on that after I have measured them in my room with my current setup.

So, I thought the best place to get good advice is from the Rythmic owners, instead of everyone else promoting their own subs.
I also might add that I would prefer to add two bigger subs for this really low freq job, due to placement and layout and response of the room. But I can of course start with one and see if that gives the desired result.

Some ideas, but can not really rate them, and do not have the possibility to listen before buying on all of them.
- Order kits and build own F25's. But I can build myself, so will be quite expensive.
- SVS SB13 Ultra. This is possible to find used.
- Seaton Submersive, but to expensive for me, so then only one can be purchased.
- JTR sealed model, same problem as Seaton.
- Velodyne DD15+ used, new is way to expensive. But also here only one can be purchased.
- Two Rythmik E15's, but not sure they will give enough output that down low.
- ??

Advice with motivation and experiences is appreciated.
If you don't mind building, some Rhythmik sealed kits could be good.
How about a bunch of F15HPs?

Other stuff that might interest you. Search on avs for details:
Crowson Actuators
Suspended wood floor
(One of these are probably what is needed for good tactile impact in a concrete cellar.)

Last edited by rcohen; 07-06-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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post #16228 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
That's my point. The power cable would run alongside unbalanced, line-level speaker cables (and pre-out level sub cable) for tens of feet. Would the power cable potentially put interference onto the speaker and sub cables?
Hard to say without trying it.
What was the problem with using a closer outlet?
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post #16229 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Hard to say without trying it.
What was the problem with using a closer outlet?
The rest of my system is run through a high-quality surge protector/conditioner, but my equipment rack is 30ft from my sub.
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post #16230 of 16330 Old 07-06-2014, 07:29 PM
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I have my two F12SEs plug in to a Emotiva CMX-2 and they work great!!

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

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