Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 541 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16201 of 20195 Old 07-04-2014, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
And one more question. My sub is about a 27-ft cable run from my AVR. If I don't run the wire strictly against the base of the wall, I could make a 25-ft cable work, or I could go for a 35-ft one. I'm leaning toward the former, I'm thinking the 25-ft is going to be preferable in terms of avoiding noise/hum. Though for what it's worth, I'm currently using a 50-ft unshielded standard RCA cable, and I don't detect any noise/hum in the sub feed. I'm planning to purchase this cable (http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-UL...+%2835+Feet%29), which the Rythmik folks recommended.
I use the Dayton Audio Sub-Link with my FV15HP and it works well. No issues with Wi-Fi interference. Audyssey is able to correct for the added delay from the wireless kits. I read JT used the Rocketfish wireless subwoofer kit version and it worked well for him. Outlaw Audio also makes a wireless kit that seems to have better specs but it cost more.

It's pretty nice not having to run a wire. I was a little paranoid it would sound worst than a cable so I got a nice LC-1 subwoofer cable from Blue Jeans Cable; I can't tell much of a difference and stuck with the wireless. Another advantage of wireless is you avoid ground loop hum issues.
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post #16202 of 20195 Old 07-04-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by docbrazen View Post
I use the Dayton Audio Sub-Link with my FV15HP and it works well. No issues with Wi-Fi interference. Audyssey is able to correct for the added delay from the wireless kits. I read JT used the Rocketfish wireless subwoofer kit version and it worked well for him. Outlaw Audio also makes a wireless kit that seems to have better specs but it cost more.

It's pretty nice not having to run a wire. I was a little paranoid it would sound worst than a cable so I got a nice LC-1 subwoofer cable from Blue Jeans Cable; I can't tell much of a difference and stuck with the wireless. Another advantage of wireless is you avoid ground loop hum issues.
This is true. Back when I had a single FV I used the RocketFish kit from Best Buy and it worked like a charm. Basshead uses it too with great results. I think it's only $60 bucks. I would go this route first because if it ends up not working out for you it can easily be returned within 30 days.
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Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #16203 of 20195 Old 07-04-2014, 04:46 PM
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Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.

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post #16204 of 20195 Old 07-04-2014, 07:22 PM
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^Guys,

Brian has written in post # 14,148 about wireless connection and some caution is needed in the setup: Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

niccolo,
If you've got a hum issue between the AVR and Rythmik sub, the following might help address it: http://www.amazon.com/ART-DTI-Hum-El...2PQ0CV1VB2MYQQ

If you still have an issue with bass response, the low frequency room measurement is probably the next step to take.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP(2x4) & 10x10HD, Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
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post #16205 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.
The only reason for a higher crossover would be if you would prefer to have the sub handling those frequencies, for more impact. You might as well try setting your LR crossover to 100-120hz, to see if you like what you hear, and whether that's worth a subtle change in sub-bass when panning. It's not a question of right or wrong, better or worse, just your preference.

Last edited by rcohen; 07-05-2014 at 07:10 AM.
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post #16206 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.
You have the equipment needed to produce some great quality sound. In my opinion, its time to download REW, get a mic, and see what is going on in your room. A bad frequency response won't sound good no matter how loud you can go.
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post #16207 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Appreciate all the feedback!

Wireless to feed the sub is appealing, though I'm a perfectionist so my gut is to err on the side of wired (which of course comes with its own potential imperfections, i.e. hum). My speakers are wired so not a big deal to run a wire to the sub.

To address the bassiness of voices, I might experiment with lowering the crossover for just the center channel but not the L/R towers, but since voices sometimes pan from one side to another, that may be suboptimal (I don't think I have speaker EQ in the X2000, other than setting the crossover).

For now, having the crossover set at 60 hz seems to help a lot and still allow the sub reasonable bandwidth, any strong reasons not to stick with that?

I've got the sub boosted 4 db over Audyssey recommended settings for now. I still feel like I'm massively underutilizing my sub, but that may be a function of the content I'm feeding it. By the time the sub is cranking out serious bass, the treble is unpleasantly loud. The sub does a great job on the new Cosmos Blu rays with lots of LFE, but on organ music, with the crossover at 60 hz, it barely seems involved, and the bass seems recessed. But that might be a function of the particular recording.
Niccolo, I assume you use 1 port with 14hz high damping. This is the most extended FR with least amount of ringing (overhang) in the bass. Organ is a magnificent instrutment that really shows the depth of sound stage and that can make you feel the sound is recessed. But what brings with it is the sense of size of the "hall". As long as you don't feel all music sounds recessed, it is most likely not a coloration.


If you don't crossover higher than 80hz, you may also try line-in and compare if that gives you a cleaner sound.
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post #16208 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
^Guys,

Brian has written in post # 14,148 about wireless connection and some caution is needed in the setup: Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

niccolo,
If you've got a hum issue between the AVR and Rythmik sub, the following might help address it: http://www.amazon.com/ART-DTI-Hum-El...2PQ0CV1VB2MYQQ

If you still have an issue with bass response, the low frequency room measurement is probably the next step to take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
The only reason for a higher crossover would be if you would prefer to have the sub handling those frequencies, for more impact. You might as well try setting your LR crossover to 100-120hz, to see if you like what you hear, and whether that's worth a subtle change in sub-bass when panning. It's not a question of right or wrong, better or worse, just your preference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
You have the equipment needed to produce some great quality sound. In my opinion, its time to download REW, get a mic, and see what is going on in your room. A bad frequency response won't sound good no matter how loud you can go.
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
Niccolo, I assume you use 1 port with 14hz high damping. This is the most extended FR with least amount of ringing (overhang) in the bass. Organ is a magnificent instrutment that really shows the depth of sound stage and that can make you feel the sound is recessed. But what brings with it is the sense of size of the "hall". As long as you don't feel all music sounds recessed, it is most likely not a coloration.


If you don't crossover higher than 80hz, you may also try line-in and compare if that gives you a cleaner sound.
Appreciate all the feedback!

I think I'll stick with a wired connection. And for what it's worth, no hum issues I can detect with the 50-ft unshielded RCA cable I'm using as a stop-gap until I get a proper sub cable.

60 hz crossover for all speakers seems to be working well for now, but I'll play around a bit more, especially since my center channel is only rated to 60 hz and my surrounds to 61 hz.

Am using 1 port with 14 hz high damping. Haven't played around with sub settings yet (at least the ones available to me, since I'm using my AVR for bass management). Also using LFE from sub out, but I suppose line-in (I assume from preamp out) might be worth trying.

I might try to redo the sub crawl; at least with the organ music I was playing, I was hard pressed to detect dramatic differences while crawling around. Would I need to somehow delete the Audyssey calibration before undertaking a new sub crawl, i.e. would it compromise my ability to do the sub crawl? Microphone and room evaluation software is probably the next step. Probably won't get to that right away, but likely down the road.

Agreed I've got some great equipment at this point, albeit in a room that's a bit suboptimal, lots of reflective surfaces and towers are much closer to the wall than I'd like, but not to be helped given constraints. But it still sounds great. And it'll only get better as I tweak it!

Benq W1070 projector w/ Chief RSM mount with custom interface bracket
119" Da-Lite Cinema Contour with High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver fed by Panasonic DMP-BDT210 Bluray player
Focal Chorus 700-series towers and center, JMLab Tantal 500-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #16209 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 01:04 PM
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And one more question: I'm currently powering the FV15HP with the power cable that came with it plugged into a nearby outlet. Alternately, I could run a ~30 ft Monoprice replacement cable from the Panamax surge protector through which all of my other equipment is powered. The plus side of this is surge protection for the sub, and having all my equipment on one switch (though with the auto-switch on the sub that doesn't matter so much). The potential downside is that the ~30 ft power cable would need to run alongside my speaker and sub cables, with potential risk of introducing hum/interference.

Maybe best to stick to powering the sub from its own nearby outlet, and maybe running it through a relatively cheap surge protector (not sure if that would affect its ability to draw power)? Or maybe no surge protector at all--my impression is electronics are actually fairly robust to normal power fluctuations and major surges are pretty rare and surge protectors may or may not protect under those circumstances anyway.

Benq W1070 projector w/ Chief RSM mount with custom interface bracket
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Denon X2000 receiver fed by Panasonic DMP-BDT210 Bluray player
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post #16210 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian View Post
Brian;
What is the minimum build depth for a single DS800 driver?
6". That will give about 1" clearance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian
If there is no rear pole vent it should be easy to counter sink the the magnet into the cabinets back panel. Thermal concerns?
It does have rear pole vent.


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Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian
Also need to account for the front grill clearance of the surround at maximum extension.
I guess I'm asking for the DS800 total side profile height + Xmax.

Our commercial version has a 15mm grille.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian
A lot of WAF approved room locations open up if the total cabinet depth can be kept to an absolute minimum. ( think way off the floor : )
I would really like to do In wall's, but that automatically excludes any insulated exterior walls locations.
I rarely recommend in-wall subwoofer because insulation cannot effectively stop energy below 100hz. Another concern is structural rigidity.

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Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian
Would a single HX580 drive 4X DS800-6's ?
Shawn

Not quite. If we do that, we will under-utilize the driver. Each driver needs 250WRMS to 300WRMS to get to its max excursion (with margin for transient) As a minimal, we need HX800 to drive 4xDS800-6.
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post #16211 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 09:18 PM
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This isn't particularly relevant to anything, but listening to some solo double bass music (a transcription of the Bach solo cello suites), and the FV15HP does a fantastic job of anchoring the low frequencies, a big improvement over just running the towers (specified down to 40 hz) on their own. Currently crossing over between speakers and sub at 60 hz, and for now that seems like a great sweet spot for me. I didn't realize the sub would so helpful on this sort of classical music.

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post #16212 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
And one more question: I'm currently powering the FV15HP with the power cable that came with it plugged into a nearby outlet. Alternately, I could run a ~30 ft Monoprice replacement cable from the Panamax surge protector through which all of my other equipment is powered. The plus side of this is surge protection for the sub, and having all my equipment on one switch (though with the auto-switch on the sub that doesn't matter so much). The potential downside is that the ~30 ft power cable would need to run alongside my speaker and sub cables, with potential risk of introducing hum/interference.
Putting a power cable of 30ft length is actually worst than having a 30ft speaker cable in terms of power transmission. This is because the power draw from the wall power is in a form of spike draw repeating 120 times a second, instead of constant current draw over time. If the resistance on the power cable (or wiring inside walls) is high, it may no longer be 120V at the other end of power cable. This is the source of power loss or degradation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo
Maybe best to stick to powering the sub from its own nearby outlet, and maybe running it through a relatively cheap surge protector (not sure if that would affect its ability to draw power)? Or maybe no surge protector at all--my impression is electronics are actually fairly robust to normal power fluctuations and major surges are pretty rare and surge protectors may or may not protect under those circumstances anyway.
Unless your home is in a lightning risk area or on a poor power grid, surge protector may not be needed. Surge protector also adds resistance (from internal inductor if there is one). If one has to buy one, get one with sufficient power handling.

Last edited by Rythmik; 07-05-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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post #16213 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 10:19 PM
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Putting a power cable of 30ft length is actually worst than having a 30ft speaker cable in terms of power transmission. This is because the power draw from the wall power is in a form of spike draw repeating 120 times a second, instead of constant current draw over time. If the resistance on the power cable (or wiring inside walls) is high, it may no longer be 120V at the other end of power cable. This is the source of power loss or degradation.


Unless your home is in a lightning risk area or on a poor power grid, surge protector may not be needed. Surge protector also adds resistance (from internal inductor if there is one). If one has to buy one, get one with sufficient power handling.
Interesting, I guess I figured as long as the power cable were a sufficiently high gauge, it wouldn't matter much, so I was more concerned about the power cable having to run alongside the speaker and sub cables. Not sure whether that could create interference.
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post #16214 of 20195 Old 07-05-2014, 11:52 PM
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I'm a relative newbie to the sub world. I was just looking at data-bass out of curiosity, and I could use help interpreting the results for the FV15HP (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63). A few questions:

- I don't understand the basis for the statement: "2 ports open is probably the better all around performance." It seems to me that the increase in output with 2 ports open is rather modest, and the decrease in sub-20 hz response is dramatic. That would seem to explain why most folks here seem to be running their subs in 1-port mode.

- One possible explanation: In 1-port mode, THD has an off-the-charts (literally) peak between about 14 hz and 30 hz. That must be less problematic than it looks to my novice eye, but why?

- What else should (or shouldn't) I be taking from this data? Just trying to educate myself. Appreciate insights!

Benq W1070 projector w/ Chief RSM mount with custom interface bracket
119" Da-Lite Cinema Contour with High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver fed by Panasonic DMP-BDT210 Bluray player
Focal Chorus 700-series towers and center, JMLab Tantal 500-series bookshelf rears
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post #16215 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 06:00 AM
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Interesting, I guess I figured as long as the power cable were a sufficiently high gauge, it wouldn't matter much, so I was more concerned about the power cable having to run alongside the speaker and sub cables. Not sure whether that could create interference.
It's usually unbalanced line-level wires where interference is more of a concern. I haven't seen a good reason to run the long power cable, though, unless it's eliminating hum for you. With power, hum is the main concern.
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post #16216 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I'm a relative newbie to the sub world. I was just looking at data-bass out of curiosity, and I could use help interpreting the results for the FV15HP (http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63). A few questions:

- I don't understand the basis for the statement: "2 ports open is probably the better all around performance." It seems to me that the increase in output with 2 ports open is rather modest, and the decrease in sub-20 hz response is dramatic. That would seem to explain why most folks here seem to be running their subs in 1-port mode.

- One possible explanation: In 1-port mode, THD has an off-the-charts (literally) peak between about 14 hz and 30 hz. That must be less problematic than it looks to my novice eye, but why?

- What else should (or shouldn't) I be taking from this data? Just trying to educate myself. Appreciate insights!
Those THD graphs are at 110db SPL (loud). 1 port, 14hz, hi damp gives the cleanest output at low SPLs, but 2 ports and/or other filter settings gives you more clean output at high SPLs. It depends on your priority, taste, and room size.

You can see that at 110db, 1 port ran out of power or driver extension at 20hz, while 2 ports ran out of power or driver extension at 12hz.
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post #16217 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 10:58 AM
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It's usually unbalanced line-level wires where interference is more of a concern. I haven't seen a good reason to run the long power cable, though, unless it's eliminating hum for you. With power, hum is the main concern.
That's my point. The power cable would run alongside unbalanced, line-level speaker cables (and pre-out level sub cable) for tens of feet. Would the power cable potentially put interference onto the speaker and sub cables?

Benq W1070 projector w/ Chief RSM mount with custom interface bracket
119" Da-Lite Cinema Contour with High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver fed by Panasonic DMP-BDT210 Bluray player
Focal Chorus 700-series towers and center, JMLab Tantal 500-series bookshelf rears
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post #16218 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 11:38 AM
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On wall 8" subwoofer

Brian
Minimum 8" sub build depth...
15mm front surround clearance +
152mm driver and vent clearance +
19mm rear cabinet thickness
= 182 mm or 7.25" build depth.

That's a bit too deep for WAF approved on wall sub. Sweetheart did allow me 4" for the multiple OC703 broadband absorbers AND complemented me on the improved sound : )

If I could shave an inch off the depth, maybe I could disguise them as full floor to ceiling columns you typically see on the side walls in the AVS "Home Theater of the Month" unobtaininum thread. Hmmmm.

In regard to the amp required to drive 4xDS800-6's....
I was under the impression that the amp's required power to reach X-max was inversely proportional to cabinet's volume.
Remember I am only interested in the minimum build depth not total volume.
If I doubled your recommended 0.75cuft per DS800 would I achieve optimal performance with the HX580 compact amp?

Thank you for your patience with my imagination.
Shawn

Last edited by MarvinTheMartian; 07-06-2014 at 12:00 PM. Reason: HX580
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post #16219 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 01:58 PM
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Need help with non-Rythmik options..

To put it short, I have four F12's in my HT, (almost) everything is good with that setup, and I get very deep response from the subs in that room, have very good output down to at least 10Hz (concrete cellar with heavy acoustic treatment) with support at about 20Hz from the lowest room resonance.

But, since fully satisfied is not a very common state for me (unfortunately), I do miss that extra SPL output capability in the subsonic range. So this is what I want to improve.
I have enough output on almost all material, but then there are a few of them, like the Jurassic Lunch track from Cincinatti Pops The Great Fantasy Adventure Album with 5Hz content where I can hear (have limiters on) that the subs have reached their limit.

I thought of adding (or replacing two F12's) two F25's and perhaps put a LPF at around 30Hz.
Problem is that F25 does not ship to Europe, where I am.
I do want something that can keep up with the quality of the F12's, that's a must to keep the good integration with my Magnepan speakers. This is very important, but do no know how important this is if I have a LPF at 30Hz for two new monsters? And at the same time, I can not be sure I put a LPF at all on them, since I will decide on that after I have measured them in my room with my current setup.

So, I thought the best place to get good advice is from the Rythmic owners, instead of everyone else promoting their own subs.
I also might add that I would prefer to add two bigger subs for this really low freq job, due to placement and layout and response of the room. But I can of course start with one and see if that gives the desired result.

Some ideas, but can not really rate them, and do not have the possibility to listen before buying on all of them.
- Order kits and build own F25's. But I can build myself, so will be quite expensive.
- SVS SB13 Ultra. This is possible to find used.
- Seaton Submersive, but to expensive for me, so then only one can be purchased.
- JTR sealed model, same problem as Seaton.
- Velodyne DD15+ used, new is way to expensive. But also here only one can be purchased.
- Two Rythmik E15's, but not sure they will give enough output that down low.
- ??

Advice with motivation and experiences is appreciated.
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post #16220 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 02:44 PM
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Your opinion needed. Does one F12 integrate well and provide enough bass to enhance stereo speakers such as Magnepan MMGs or Vandersteen 2CE Sig IIs? Think of getting one, since it is described as a fast, musical sub.

Room size is 13.5 ft. by 19.25 ft.

Last edited by psyopwak; 07-06-2014 at 02:50 PM. Reason: add room size
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post #16221 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 03:33 PM
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I happy with my F12s and Magnepan MG-IIIa's. The servo makes Rythmik a great match for planer speakers, electrodynamic or ESL. Or any speaker.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #16222 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post
To put it short, I have four F12's in my HT, (almost) everything is good with that setup, and I get very deep response from the subs in that room, have very good output down to at least 10Hz (concrete cellar with heavy acoustic treatment) with support at about 20Hz from the lowest room resonance.

But, since fully satisfied is not a very common state for me (unfortunately), I do miss that extra SPL output capability in the subsonic range. So this is what I want to improve.
I have enough output on almost all material, but then there are a few of them, like the Jurassic Lunch track from Cincinatti Pops The Great Fantasy Adventure Album with 5Hz content where I can hear (have limiters on) that the subs have reached their limit.

I thought of adding (or replacing two F12's) two F25's and perhaps put a LPF at around 30Hz.
Problem is that F25 does not ship to Europe, where I am.
I do want something that can keep up with the quality of the F12's, that's a must to keep the good integration with my Magnepan speakers. This is very important, but do no know how important this is if I have a LPF at 30Hz for two new monsters? And at the same time, I can not be sure I put a LPF at all on them, since I will decide on that after I have measured them in my room with my current setup.

So, I thought the best place to get good advice is from the Rythmic owners, instead of everyone else promoting their own subs.
I also might add that I would prefer to add two bigger subs for this really low freq job, due to placement and layout and response of the room. But I can of course start with one and see if that gives the desired result.

Some ideas, but can not really rate them, and do not have the possibility to listen before buying on all of them.
- Order kits and build own F25's. But I can build myself, so will be quite expensive.
- SVS SB13 Ultra. This is possible to find used.
- Seaton Submersive, but to expensive for me, so then only one can be purchased.
- JTR sealed model, same problem as Seaton.
- Velodyne DD15+ used, new is way to expensive. But also here only one can be purchased.
- Two Rythmik E15's, but not sure they will give enough output that down low.
- ??

Advice with motivation and experiences is appreciated.
If you don't mind building, some Rhythmik sealed kits could be good.
How about a bunch of F15HPs?

Other stuff that might interest you. Search on avs for details:
Crowson Actuators
Suspended wood floor
(One of these are probably what is needed for good tactile impact in a concrete cellar.)

Last edited by rcohen; 07-06-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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post #16223 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
That's my point. The power cable would run alongside unbalanced, line-level speaker cables (and pre-out level sub cable) for tens of feet. Would the power cable potentially put interference onto the speaker and sub cables?
Hard to say without trying it.
What was the problem with using a closer outlet?
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post #16224 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Hard to say without trying it.
What was the problem with using a closer outlet?
The rest of my system is run through a high-quality surge protector/conditioner, but my equipment rack is 30ft from my sub.
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post #16225 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 07:29 PM
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I have my two F12SEs plug in to a Emotiva CMX-2 and they work great!!

Best Regards,

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post #16226 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post
To put it short, I have four F12's in my HT, (almost) everything is good with that setup, and I get very deep response from the subs in that room, have very good output down to at least 10Hz (concrete cellar with heavy acoustic treatment) with support at about 20Hz from the lowest room resonance.

Advice with motivation and experiences is appreciated.
Danne2,

At those mid-teen to single digit frequencies, you'll feel the SPL more than hear it. Suggest going with tactile transducers. The following thread might interest you: A comparison of three tactile transducers - ButtKicker Mini LFE vs. Clark Synthesis TST209 vs. Aura Bass Shaker Pro

I've never setup these transducers before, so best to ask questions in that thread.

Since you've got 4 Rythmik subs and assuming you've got a rectangular room, one concept from Germany might interest you. It's called double bass array (DBA) or if you can put enough sound absorption on the back wall, the single bass array (SBA) is another option. Read through the following thread for inspiration: Double Bass Array (DBA) - The modern bass concept!

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post #16227 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
The rest of my system is run through a high-quality surge protector/conditioner, but my equipment rack is 30ft from my sub.
There shouldn't be any need to plug subs into a power conditioner, and many of them will choke off the current. I have my subs plugged right into wall outlets.

That said, maybe someone can recommend a surge protector that's good for subs and reasonably priced. (I've often wondered about that, myself.)
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post #16228 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
There shouldn't be any need to plug subs into a power conditioner, and many of them will choke off the current. I have my subs plugged right into wall outlets.

That said, maybe someone can recommend a surge protector that's good for subs and reasonably priced. (I've often wondered about that, myself.)
I have a Panamax (http://www.panamax.com/Products/A-V-...nts/MR4300.php) that I received as a warranty replacement for an older model that I got on great sale. I'm not too concerned about surges and not convinced power conditioning is necessary, mostly it's a convenient way to have a single power switch for my system, though I suppose the surge protection is a nice plus. I think it should have plenty of capacity to handle the sub (but by all means correct me if I'm mistaken about that), so the only question is whether to run a higher-gauge power cord 30-ft to the sub.

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post #16229 of 20195 Old 07-06-2014, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
I have a Panamax (http://www.panamax.com/Products/A-V-...nts/MR4300.php) that I received as a warranty replacement for an older model that I got on great sale. I'm not too concerned about surges and not convinced power conditioning is necessary, mostly it's a convenient way to have a single power switch for my system, though I suppose the surge protection is a nice plus. I think it should have plenty of capacity to handle the sub (but by all means correct me if I'm mistaken about that), so the only question is whether to run a higher-gauge power cord 30-ft to the sub.
It's hard to say on whether it would choke off power from a sub. I'm not sure if the specs would tell ya.

The subs turn themselves on and off automatically, so I can't see how convenience would be a concern.

I would say that it's desirable to uses separate outlets (and maybe circuits) for subs, unless you're getting ground loops.

Power conditioners and voltage regulates will sometimes help sound and/or longevity on devices with cheap power supplies, like wall wart transformers. I've never heard of anyone saying it helped with a sub.
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post #16230 of 20195 Old 07-07-2014, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
If you don't mind building, some Rhythmik sealed kits could be good.
How about a bunch of F15HPs?

Other stuff that might interest you. Search on avs for details:
Crowson Actuators
Suspended wood floor
(One of these are probably what is needed for good tactile impact in a concrete cellar.)
Thanks. I will look into the Crowson Actuators. Have a wood floor now, and get tactile feel from that.
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