Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 543 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #16261 of 27192 Old 07-09-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
All the features of the 600, hair less money and a hair less power, but respectively more power supply filter capacitance. I'd choose it.
Really? Can you elaborate on the 'more power supply filter capacitance'?
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post #16262 of 27192 Old 07-09-2014, 08:46 PM
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I do not remember the numbers (they are someplace in this thread) but the 550 amplifier uses larger filter capacitors in the power supply than the 600 (probably more capacitance for same size/price at lower voltage). Potentially more charge storage to ride out big bass peaks.

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post #16263 of 27192 Old 07-09-2014, 09:00 PM
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^^ I found that post. Thanks Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post
I found the Amps comparison here: http://rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html
They are the same with only 2 differences:
H550-PEQ
Output Power (4ohms): 550W RMS
Power filter caps: 4x50V/22000uF (Panasonic)

H600-PEQ
Output Power (4ohms): 600W RMS
Power filter caps: 4x63V/18000uF (Panasonic)

Now this translates to which one better, I do not know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Brian posted the numbers some time ago. The difference in power output and capacitance is actually not very large, and some people will go for the biggest power number no matter what. Given the choice, I would personally choose the 550. If you want energy, then U = 1/2 * C * V^2 but I do not know the voltage rails. Using the capacitors' rated values, the 550 has 110 J and the 600 has 143 J so there is more energy storage capacity in the 600 at the caps' rated voltages. I am guessing from the power ratings (P = V^2/R, and Vpeak = Vrms * sqrt(2)) that each amp is actually using two caps in series, or maybe the amps are bridged (perhaps more likely), I don't know. The A-series amps are class AB, and H-series class-H, so the rails on the H-sereies amps get switched ('ish). Big power caps are usually run at 50% to 75% of their rated voltage but there's really no point in playing games. In the real world I seriously doubt anyone will notice the difference. I have a pair of F12's with the lowly 370 W amps and they do fine... Note 740 W (twice the power of my amp) would only be an extra 3 dB of headroom and my room and ears don't need it.
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

What Don meant was the difference between H600 and H550 is small. Buth H600 still has higher output. So the question is why do we have these two models with such close output rating? Well the cap used on H600 has voltage rating of 63V volts and we only use 53volts. So there is still room to increase the output. However I weighed the balance between output and heat dissipation. Going forward, we will keep H600. But that does not mean H550 will be lacking in support because these two models use the same power amp module so we can continue to support both models with the same power amp module.

Last edited by tvuong; 07-09-2014 at 09:07 PM.
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post #16264 of 27192 Old 07-09-2014, 11:00 PM
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Any reason to avoid putting an FV15HP on its side? I realized it would substitute perfectly for my center channel stand. Obviously that might not turn out to be an accoustically optimal room position, but it's only two feet to the side of its current location. But would having ports on side of driver instead of below matter? Should plugged port be nearer or farther from floor? I suppose air would run through cooling fins less efficiently if horizontal, but they barely seem warm during usage, so not sure that matters much. Just a thought.
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post #16265 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 06:24 AM
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Niccolo this was asked a while back and Brian stated that it was perfectly fine to lay an FV15HP on it's side. I used to lay my LV12R's on their side and never ran into any issues. Your ports and driver will still behave the same way as if it were standing up, so no need to worry. Also, I'm not sure if folks know this, but you can stuff the port plug a good ways back into the port so it's not so noticeable. I do this because I love looking at the gorgeous drivers and prefer the grills off, but I also don't like being able to see the plug.
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post #16266 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 06:33 AM
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Sorry for the crappy iphone picture, but see no port plug visible.
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post #16267 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 07:44 AM
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Josh Ricci had the fv15hp laying on its side and said it had a bit more output this way.
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post #16268 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Josh Ricci had the fv15hp laying on its side and said it had a bit more output this way.
I wonder why?
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post #16269 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 07:53 AM
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Probably boundary coupling to the floor. I would expect any gain to be small and somewhat room-dependent.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #16270 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 10:04 AM
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^^ I agree but Josh measured it out door.
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post #16271 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 12:47 PM
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I do not know how Josh measured. Outdoor, fine, but close-mic'd? How close was the sub to the ground? For there to be a change in output given no change except orientation of the box there must be some interaction of the driver/port with a boundary. Unless the amp gains power and/or driver gains excursion/efficiency when turned on its side...

Using the outdoors to emulate an anechoic chamber is not a complete panacea. At low frequencies the wavelengths are long enough that you still interact with the ground, a building twenty feet away, whatever. Some testers raise the speaker off the ground to help reduce the impact of LF ground coupling. Need a really tall crane for a subwoofer.

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post #16272 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
thank you for the reply

are there any reviews of the f25 that you or anyone else can link me to?
I can't find any.

Why are they not reviewed the question becomes.

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post #16273 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 07:07 PM
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There aren't many of them (F25's) out there. Smaller companies in general have a much tougher time getting press coverage for a variety of reasons. That does not mean their products are poorly-performing or in any other way sub-standard.

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post #16274 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 07:40 PM
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post #16275 of 27192 Old 07-10-2014, 09:04 PM
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Yup!

I have been in an anechoic chamber rated to 30 Hz (IIRC). BIG spikes!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #16276 of 27192 Old 07-11-2014, 01:05 PM
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Can the A370PEQ amp be used to drive a non-Rythmik, standard driver?
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post #16277 of 27192 Old 07-11-2014, 04:31 PM
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You'd have to figure out how to bypass the servo circuit, at least.... The easy answer would be "no".

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #16278 of 27192 Old 07-11-2014, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
You'd have to figure out how to bypass the servo circuit, at least.... The easy answer would be "no".
Thanks. I've got what I think is a blown 15" driver in a diy sub I built quite a few years ago, with the amp in a separate enclosure (bottoms out like a hammer) Seems like a waste to S-can everything.

Maybe I will look into grabbing another servo driver from Rythmik.
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post #16279 of 27192 Old 07-11-2014, 08:33 PM
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A Rythmik DIY? I'd just ping Brian about another driver for sure. It's possible your amp is bad, of course. Do the voice coils have continuity? If the feedback coil is open the amp will probably oscillate.

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post #16280 of 27192 Old 07-11-2014, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
A Rythmik DIY? I'd just ping Brian about another driver for sure. It's possible your amp is bad, of course. Do the voice coils have continuity? If the feedback coil is open the amp will probably oscillate.
Looks like I do have continuity, 3-1/2 to 4 ohms on the driver and 13-14 ohms on the servo feedback.

It's just when the driver has to hit hard is when it chokes and makes the "unpleasant "noise.

Last edited by jkhome; 07-11-2014 at 08:50 PM.
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post #16281 of 27192 Old 07-11-2014, 09:03 PM
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jkhome,

I got the email with the pictures of your amp. Looks like it's the old A300SE amp. I forwarded the email to Brian so he can look at it but I'm guessing the new DS1501 driver would work just fine.



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post #16282 of 27192 Old 07-11-2014, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
jkhome,

I got the email with the pictures of your amp. Looks like it's the old A300SE amp. I forwarded the email to Brian so he can look at it but I'm guessing the new DS1501 driver would work just fine.
No, I think you are thinking of someone else, I haven't emailed you yet. Here is a post to give a time line :

Simple Rythmik retrofit

Here's a pic of it:


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post #16283 of 27192 Old 07-13-2014, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
There shouldn't be any need to plug subs into a power conditioner, and many of them will choke off the current. I have my subs plugged right into wall outlets.

That said, maybe someone can recommend a surge protector that's good for subs and reasonably priced. (I've often wondered about that, myself.)
I have my FV15 plugged into the wall with no surge protection. Also, I have had a Panamax for close to if not more than 15 years now. It was originally bought for when I had a C-Band satellite system. NO issues what so ever. And I lived in Sarasota, FL, the lightning capitol of the U.S. and now north central AZ.

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post #16284 of 27192 Old 07-13-2014, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post
I have my FV15 plugged into the wall with no surge protection. Also, I have had a Panamax for close to if not more than 15 years now. It was originally bought for when I had a C-Band satellite system. NO issues what so ever. And I lived in Sarasota, FL, the lightning capitol of the U.S. and now north central AZ.

Jeff
Which Panamax? The sub one?
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post #16285 of 27192 Old 07-14-2014, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Which Panamax? The sub one?
The Panamax I have is old, it has many wire connectors for C-Band use. Plus connectors for regular cable and plugs for EQ. I will find out which one. But it has (knock on wood) never failed me.

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Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post
The Panamax I have is old, it has many wire connectors for C-Band use. Plus connectors for regular cable and plugs for EQ. I will find out which one. But it has (knock on wood) never failed me.

Jeff
I ordered a set of these, since they are cheap, and Panamax claims they are designed for subs and non-current-limiting:
http://amzn.com/B00012F8AO
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post #16287 of 27192 Old 07-14-2014, 11:33 AM
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There are many possible combinations of sub gain (volume) and AVR settings. Presumably, there is some window that maximizes performance with lots of headroom so there's little risk of clipping. What are the rules of thumb? The advice here seems to be to shoot for Audyssey settings between -3 and -6 dB, but should that be before turning the sub up to run it a bit hot or afterwards?

Currently, I have my sub gain set at a notch below midnight, Audyssey calibrated my sub at -5 dB, and I'm running it a bit hot by moving it to -1 dB. If I move the sub gain up a notch, if I recall correctly Audyssey comes out closer to -10 or -11 dB, and then I'd compensate to -6 or -7 dB. Is the latter preferable or am I in a sweet spot with the former?

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post #16288 of 27192 Old 07-14-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
There are many possible combinations of sub gain (volume) and AVR settings. Presumably, there is some window that maximizes performance with lots of headroom so there's little risk of clipping. What are the rules of thumb? The advice here seems to be to shoot for Audyssey settings between -3 and -6 dB, but should that be before turning the sub up to run it a bit hot or afterwards?

Currently, I have my sub gain set at a notch below midnight, Audyssey calibrated my sub at -5 dB, and I'm running it a bit hot by moving it to -1 dB. If I move the sub gain up a notch, if I recall correctly Audyssey comes out closer to -10 or -11 dB, and then I'd compensate to -6 or -7 dB. Is the latter preferable or am I in a sweet spot with the former?
If you can get Audyssey to be at -6 (-5 is fine too if only boosting +4db) after calibration that's perfect. Does it sound good to you boosting +4db to achieve a -1 result after everything is said and done? If so, you should be golden. All that matters when everything is said and done is that it sounds good to your ears. I prefer to take advantage of the PEQ settings on the amp as opposed to boosting in Audyssey after calibration. I have a +3db boost applied at <60hz and bandwith set mid-way. My Rythmik's sound fantastic in my open >6000 cu ft living room.
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post #16289 of 27192 Old 07-14-2014, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
There are many possible combinations of sub gain (volume) and AVR settings. Presumably, there is some window that maximizes performance with lots of headroom so there's little risk of clipping. What are the rules of thumb? The advice here seems to be to shoot for Audyssey settings between -3 and -6 dB, but should that be before turning the sub up to run it a bit hot or afterwards?

Currently, I have my sub gain set at a notch below midnight, Audyssey calibrated my sub at -5 dB, and I'm running it a bit hot by moving it to -1 dB. If I move the sub gain up a notch, if I recall correctly Audyssey comes out closer to -10 or -11 dB, and then I'd compensate to -6 or -7 dB. Is the latter preferable or am I in a sweet spot with the former?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
If you can get Audyssey to be at -6 (-5 is fine too if only boosting +4db) after calibration that's perfect. Does it sound good to you boosting +4db to achieve a -1 result after everything is said and done? If so, you should be golden. All that matters when everything is said and done is that it sounds good to your ears. I prefer to take advantage of the PEQ settings on the amp as opposed to boosting in Audyssey after calibration. I have a +3db boost applied at <60hz and bandwith set mid-way. My Rythmik's sound fantastic in my open >6000 cu ft living room.
Sure, the sub sounds great at -1 dB on the AVR and a notch below midnight on the sub gain. But what I'm wondering is if there's any logical way to deduce a sweet spot for the amp setting, e.g. can one generalize about a desirable window? There are various combinations of AVR and sub gain that will yield that same SPL, so I'm looking for some insight into why some might be better than others and which might be optimal.

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post #16290 of 27192 Old 07-14-2014, 08:21 PM
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^^ there is not really a right or wrong way as all the avr does is to calibrate sub(s) and speakers to reference level beside from setting the distances and crossover. From what I have read, most folks including myself try to have the sub trim at -8 or -9 as long as it is not -12db (Denon avr limit) so that one still runs the sub below zero with sub(s) 6-9dbs hot after calibration. Higher sub trim over zero could cause clip or distortion from what I have heard.
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