Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 547 - AVS Forum
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post #16381 of 16390 Old 07-27-2014, 10:45 PM
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^^ say what? Sorry I am not following.
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post #16382 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highmr View Post
Joined the Rhythmik owner group with a D15SE. Room is a quite large open format kitchen and family room (although partially broken by a protruding fireplace). WxDxH = 36'x26'x12', and there are open hallways attached. Subfloor is concrete foundation, with a mix of stone tile and carpet. The width of the partial alcove where the speakers are actually located is 15' (D and H the same as above). Previously we had a single Hsu VTF-2 MK4 (formerly in a smaller room). I understand a single subwoofer such as that Hsu should be overwhelmed by that room, but I honestly did not notice any issues. We typically listen to music at about -20 and Blu-Ray at about -10, with Audyssey MultEq and DEQ turned on. I selected the D15SE because the FV15HPSE seemed to large (from a room appearance standpoint), and even compared to the sealed E15 and F15 models, the taller, square D15 is more furniture like. I do really like the piano black. Eventually I may get a matching or similar Rhythmik and a receiver with XT32 and subEQ, but I will try to make this work for a year or so. I've ordered a UMIK-1 mike and plan to use the REW software to compare the subs and to optimize their combined placement and settings, understanding that it is more difficult without the subEQ in the receiver. Initial plan for settings is to emphasize high damping in both, and to use the max extension setting in the Hsu to try to be somewhat similar in FR (as much as is possible considering it is 12"). My first goal is music of all kinds, only focusing on movie and volume performance if I actually notice an issue. Suggestions are welcome.
Let us know when you get your mic and REW up and running. It will be very interesting to see how both subs interact with one another.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #16383 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by coli View Post
Just want to share something I just discovered... on my AVR, apparently all the pre-outs share the same power, upon disconnecting my left/right pre-outs (switched to avr l/r speaker), all of sudden there is so much more dynamic bass now.
That shouldn't happen.

You might be having problems with cancellation.
Set your left/right to small, and make sure you have the delay/distance set so that it doesn't cancel at the crossover frequency.
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post #16384 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 06:41 AM
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post #16385 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
Just want to share something I just discovered... on my AVR, apparently all the pre-outs share the same power, upon disconnecting my left/right pre-outs (switched to avr l/r speaker), all of sudden there is so much more dynamic bass now.
Just to be clear, are you saying that using the receiver's builtin amplifier is giving more dynamic bass than using the pre-outs and an external amplifier?
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post #16386 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highmr View Post
... I've ordered a UMIK-1 mike and plan to use the REW software to compare the subs and to optimize their combined placement and settings, understanding that it is more difficult without the subEQ in the receiver. Initial plan for settings is to emphasize high damping in both, and to use the max extension setting in the Hsu to try to be somewhat similar in FR (as much as is possible considering it is 12"). My first goal is music of all kinds, only focusing on movie and volume performance if I actually notice an issue. Suggestions are welcome.
If you're interested in getting both subs to work together, the Denon AVR-2310 has a single sub pre-out. Audyssey MultiEQ will set a single level and distance setting to both subs for a combined response. So the key is setting up of the HSU and Rythmik prior to running Audyssey.

You might want to consider gain matching the subs so that there is equal power output for each sub with respect to the Main Listening Position based on reference level that Audyssey will run at (75dB). This will minimize one sub working too hard while the other just sits there humming along.

An external box such as the MiniDSP (2x4) between the sub pre-out and the the subs is another consideration. You might be interested on the write-up done by AVS member neutro in the following thread here: Tutorial: Dual sub integration using the MiniDSP as it should give some ideas on what can be done in a dual sub set-up.

Placement of the subs is the key in getting smooth bass over a larger sweet spot. Have fun along the way and post back results if you can. There are quite a few clever people who hang around AVS that can provide advise.

Maranatz NR1504, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
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post #16387 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 05:49 PM
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2 subs with 1 sub output from your amp doesn't require a MiniDSP (although those could be good for other things).


Use the "line in" input, not LFE, so that they "delay/phase" knobs are active.
Set the crossover to the max (120hz), and use the receiver's crossover setting, instead.
With the help if the mic and REW, tune the delay and gain on each sub. (This can be tricky.)




More details: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase1.html
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post #16388 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 07:17 PM
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^rcohen,

Great suggestion! Haven't thought about this trick and save $100 on the MiniDSP - just thought the (2x4) would make it easier / more accurate in setting up two subs. The (2x4) also has the ability to add some PEQ filters and/or a low shelf to taste.

Thinking aloud about the general set-up method (after sub placement has is decided) for multiple subs being:

(1) Set the phase angle for both subs to zero then gain match the subs first.

(2) Run Audyssey to determine the distances of each sub individually.

(3) Get the delta between the further away and nearest sub. This will determine how much delay is needed at the selected crossover.

(4) Add some delay (phase) to the nearest sub so that it can be time aligned with the furthest.

(5) Re-run Audyssey with both subs to get the combined response for level and distance.

(6) Check with REW that low frequency response is flat. Check also that the crossover is smooth.

Maranatz NR1504, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
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post #16389 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM
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Those steps sound like good advice.

I just realized you were using two different models of subs. That can be tricky, since there may be frequency-dependent phase differences between the subs. So, even if you match the phase at the crossover frequency, the subs might cancel at other frequencies.

It might be good, though.

If your frequency response is worse with 2 subs than with 1, and you aren't able to fix it, you could try playing with the various filter settings, until you find one that works best.
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post #16390 of 16390 Old Yesterday, 08:20 PM
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What is being discussed is level matching. Set each sub to around 73 db at the main listening position. Then run autocalibration. Gain matching is done with identical subs. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus Five 200 amp, Chase SS 18.2(2), VS 18.1(2), Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

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