Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 552 - AVS Forum
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post #16531 of 16541 Old 08-20-2014, 07:01 PM
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^^ I can try to measure without Audessey to see my responses between the three settings but it does not do me any good when I watch a movie with Audessey always on, one of the main reason for buying my X4000 Denon. Why would xt32 with subeqHT throws things off? Isn't it one of the best out there?
So low damping does not translate to more output? Just more head room? I don't think I want to give up 10-15hz for that beside from having more ringing/distortion as you pointed out with low damping. Thanks Rcohen.
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post #16532 of 16541 Old 08-20-2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ I can try to measure without Audessey to see my responses between the three settings but it does not do me any good when I watch a movie with Audessey always on, one of the main reason for buying my X4000 Denon. Why would xt32 with subeqHT throws things off? Isn't it one of the best out there?
So low damping does not translate to more output? Just more head room? I don't think I want to give up 10-15hz for that beside from having more ringing/distortion as you pointed out with low damping. Thanks Rcohen.
More output and more headroom are the same thing. You do give up the lowest frequencies for it. It doesn't add distortion, just a bit of ringing for the lowest frequencies. I just meant that sometimes "full body" is also used to describe distortion. For some rooms and tastes, low damping is best. It's easy enough to try.

Audyssey tries to flatten out the EQ, so it hides what the sub filter settings are doing. You can (and probably should) still use it, especially if you like the sound better that way. I just meant to turn it off if you want to see what the sub filter settings do.
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post #16533 of 16541 Old 08-20-2014, 08:17 PM
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According to http://www.rythmikaudio.com/eq.html, low dampening is supposed to also provide a 1.5 dB boost, which is missing from your curve:

That was my understanding, that you get more output in the upper frequencies (20 Hz)by making the amp not work as hard in the lower frequencies.
Since I favor music, I calibrated Audyssey with the high damping setting, and have never tried the other settings.
I bought a Cross-Spectrum Umik and got everything ready for HDMI REW before I got my F15HPs a few months ago, but I've been enjoying them so I haven't bothered to do any measurements yet :-) But I'll have some time in a couple weeks.
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post #16534 of 16541 Old 08-20-2014, 09:52 PM
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1.5 db won't make any major difference in the HT or with music except on graph paper for the most part.

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post #16535 of 16541 Old Yesterday, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
1.5 db won't make any major difference in the HT or with music except on graph paper for the most part.
When doing a/b comparisons, 1.5 db is quite audible. After long periods of time, your mind does some funky psychoacoustic stuff that would greatly diminish the difference.
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post #16536 of 16541 Old Yesterday, 05:25 AM
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Well I've had my Rythmiks for awhile now and I've never heard distortion with the dampening set to low. I have one specific example I can provide of the bass sounding hollow and not full with high dampening. Run the iron hide flip scene in the first transformers. Try out high and low dampening and you'll see what I'm talking about. The bass seems hollow and almost cut short when set to high dampening. I noticed this in a few scenes from the 2008 version of the hulk. So in low dampening the full body bass I'm hearing (ringing/smear) is distortion? It sounds pretty damn clean to me.
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post #16537 of 16541 Old Yesterday, 05:43 AM
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Rcohen, Bathes,
My graph does not show more output from low damping. It shows roll off at 15hz. Looking at my graph, what damping setting would you use/choose? That was why I asked as I also see Rythmik and Ricci's graph shows more output with low damping. As rcohen stated: Audessey had flatten it out. I would like someone (Bathes and all) to measure the three damping settings with Audessey engaged and post his/her graph to see if it acts similar to mine.
JT, thanks for the iron flip clip for comparison.
I guest at the end, I need to try and see which damping sounds better even if hi damping looks best on my graph.
Thanks guys.

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post #16538 of 16541 Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Well I've had my Rythmiks for awhile now and I've never heard distortion with the dampening set to low. I have one specific example I can provide of the bass sounding hollow and not full with high dampening. Run the iron hide flip scene in the first transformers. Try out high and low dampening and you'll see what I'm talking about. The bass seems hollow and almost cut short when set to high dampening. I noticed this in a few scenes from the 2008 version of the hulk. So in low dampening the full body bass I'm hearing (ringing/smear) is distortion? It sounds pretty damn clean to me.
Distortion isn't really a good word for ringing. Normally, distortion is used to describe other stuff.

Here's where you can hear the difference. It's actually pretty subtle:

1) Low damping is a steeper rolloff, so things will be quieter below the cutoff frequency. So, you could find something with sound below that frequency, and compare.

2) For stuff at the cutoff frequency, there will be slightly less detail. Again, it's subtle, but I can hear the difference the most with movies that have large objects bouncing around. With low damping, it will be kind of rumbly. With high damping, it will be more articulate, with distinct bumps. On the other hand, sometimes a bit of smear sounds a bit better, like with a big booming explosion.

3) In some cases, the extra phase coherency from high damping can help make things sound tighter. On the other hand, cutting off the lower frequencies and boosting the rest can help in a different way. Sorting out time alignment can help, too.
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post #16539 of 16541 Old Yesterday, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Well I've had my Rythmiks for awhile now and I've never heard distortion with the dampening set to low. I have one specific example I can provide of the bass sounding hollow and not full with high dampening. Run the iron hide flip scene in the first transformers. Try out high and low dampening and you'll see what I'm talking about. The bass seems hollow and almost cut short when set to high dampening. I noticed this in a few scenes from the 2008 version of the hulk. So in low dampening the full body bass I'm hearing (ringing/smear) is distortion? It sounds pretty damn clean to me.
I wouldn't say its distortion but like u stated its more ringing. There is a difference. Hopefully someone can explain the difference as I don't know how to put it in words right now

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post #16540 of 16541 Old Yesterday, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Rcohen, Bathes,
My graph does not show more output from low damping. It shows roll off at 15hz. Looking at my graph, what damping setting would you use/choose? That was why I asked as I also see Rythmik and Ricci's graph shows more output with low damping. As rcohen stated: Audessey had flatten it out. I would like someone (Bathes and all) to measure the three damping settings with Audessey engaged and post his/her graph to see if it acts similar to mine.
JT, thanks for the iron flip clip for comparison.
I guest at the end, I need to try and see which damping sounds better even if hi damping looks best on my graph.
Thanks guys.
Low damping gives you a steeper rolloff, not more output. Doing that, however, conserves a lot of amp power and driver extension, so that it is capable of more output (more headroom) above the rolloff frequency.
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post #16541 of 16541 Old Yesterday, 09:37 PM
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In case this helps, here's an extreme view of what ringing from a min-phase IIR filter looks like on an impulse response. Most filters add a bit of ringing. The steeper the filter, the more the ringing. On the flip side, steeper filters do a better job of removing energy below the cutoff frequency. Having this degree of flexibility in a sub is rare.

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