Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 581 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17401 of 17426 Old 01-22-2015, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by coli View Post
I've had numerous subs, and I come to the conclusion if you want bass resolution you have to pay for towers. There is no other way. Eg, look into the bass design (woofer and cabinet) of the KEF's The Reference series, they are far more complex than any subwoofers can offer.

http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/...iew/index.html
http://www.kefdirect.com/media/catal...abinet-wp2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IwMkhqo9U7...ecision_in.jpg

I switched from LS50 + Rythmik F12G to R700, and the result is improvement in everything.

If you can wait, the new Klipsch Signature line (RF-7 II successor) should be a very good choice.

Also, my experience with the F12G was so bad that I am beginning to suspect that there is a reason all other manufacturers have abandoned servo.
I definitely disagree.

Towers are less tricky to set up, since you don't have to integrate subs. On the other hand, good subs will give you more accuracy, output, and extension. Furthermore, subs will give you more flexibility with placement and using multiples that is essential for getting good frequency response in typical rooms:

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...nd-tell-part-1

Less low frequency extension can sound tighter than poorly set up subs. Using good subs and setting them up right you can get high resolution bass with lower extension and more impact.
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post #17402 of 17426 Old 01-22-2015, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GrandPixel View Post
First of all, I am disappointed with just about all subwoofers I've heard. There is almost always very little DEFINITION in the sound. I have not had opportunity to hear a wide range of subs, but over the years I have listened to JL Fathom F113, Bower & Wilkins subs, some Velodyne subs, etc. I doubt many of them were properly configured, but they just do not sound good.

Exceptions would be my father's Peavey 18" concert subs, now used in his theater (laugh if you want). Although they don't go into the 20hz range, the definition is there (please speak up if you know what I'm talking about). Also I owned a Bag End Infrasub-18, which had electronics to EQ the sub flat to 8 hz. (Sub was water-damaged, which is why I am here, deciding whether to repair or replace.) This sub also uses a pro driver with ridged surround.

So for the longest time I figured a rigid low excursion pro driver is what makes the difference. It's been the mark of every good sounding sub I've heard. However I would like to believe that a quick and defined response can also come from traditional subwoofers - mostly because that's just about everything on the market, but also because the excursion is needed for low frequencies at high volume.

Perhaps a combination is needed, with higher excursion subs crossed over at something like 30 hz. Or maybe I just need help correcting this stigma, that every time I see a driver with a rubber surround, it must lack transient response and definition.

Anyway, Rythmik stands out to me. I have not heard their product, but they seem to at least relate with my disappointment with traditional subwoofers. I would love to hear what they can do.

The second part of my post is specifically related to Rythmik models, and the difference in sound between F15HP, FV15HP, and F25. I will be running dual subs, as I understand this can correct inconsistencies in room response, and also increase output.

I would like a Rythmik rep to address my questions, but I also welcome everyone's opinion.
The ported models are more efficient - more output per watt. The sealed models have more definition, although the Rhythmik ported models have have more definition than most ported subs.

Based on what you are looking for, I think 2x F15HP or 2x F25 would be ideal. Run them in 14-hi mode for the most definition, although, you can use the other filter settings if you need more output.

The key difference between he F15HP and F25 is that the F25 has an extra 4db of output. A single F25 doesn't replace the benefits of having 2 subs for dealing with room modes (which is a major issue).

No need to cross over multiple subs. The Rythmik servo keeps it accurate within its entire frequency range. I would, however, recommend getting some good EQ/room correction in order to deal with room issues and tune the output curve to your taste.
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post #17403 of 17426 Old 01-22-2015, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
I've had numerous subs, and I come to the conclusion if you want bass resolution you have to pay for towers. There is no other way. Eg, look into the bass design (woofer and cabinet) of the KEF's The Reference series, they are far more complex than any subwoofers can offer.

...
I switched from LS50 + Rythmik F12G to R700, and the result is improvement in everything.

If you can wait, the new Klipsch Signature line (RF-7 II successor) should be a very good choice.

Also, my experience with the F12G was so bad that I am beginning to suspect that there is a reason all other manufacturers have abandoned servo.
coli,

Did you have a pair of F12G subs to deal with room mode issues? The LS50 has a roll off starting at 100Hz (from KEF's white paper) and the crossover should start higher rather than the -3dB point of 80Hz. Dual F12G subs will also help with a higher crossover setting - the F12G can you as high as 120Hz.

How was the frequency response of the LS50+sub using REW? Did you get a good integration (splice) at the crossover? Did you compare based on level matching with a difference of 0.1dB and using the same room, setup, etc.? The towers will play louder because they're more efficient and most people like louder sound reproduction. My current KEF E301 (satellites) are actually more efficient than the LS50!

The reason for asking is that I'm planning to purchase a 2nd F12G and pair them up 3xLS50 for the front sound stage in a new place. I don't have enough space for towers or a large center offered by the KEF reference series. Want something better sounding than the KEF E301 and the LS50 fills the criteria.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
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post #17404 of 17426 Old 01-22-2015, 08:12 PM
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Any news on the L12? I'm an apartment dweller and I think all the existing models would be overkill (as far as my neighbors are concerned, anyway)
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post #17405 of 17426 Old 01-22-2015, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
coli,

Did you have a pair of F12G subs to deal with room mode issues? The LS50 has a roll off starting at 100Hz (from KEF's white paper) and the crossover should start higher rather than the -3dB point of 80Hz. Dual F12G subs will also help with a higher crossover setting - the F12G can you as high as 120Hz.

How was the frequency response of the LS50+sub using REW? Did you get a good integration (splice) at the crossover? Did you compare based on level matching with a difference of 0.1dB and using the same room, setup, etc.? The towers will play louder because they're more efficient and most people like louder sound reproduction. My current KEF E301 (satellites) are actually more efficient than the LS50!

The reason for asking is that I'm planning to purchase a 2nd F12G and pair them up 3xLS50 for the front sound stage in a new place. I don't have enough space for towers or a large center offered by the KEF reference series. Want something better sounding than the KEF E301 and the LS50 fills the criteria.

If I didn't have room for a pair of planars, I could definitely be happy with a pair of LS50's. I compared them side-by-side to a pair of Magneplanar 1.7's a little over a year ago in a fair sized room, and they held their own just fine. They didn't provide the life-size, realistic-image-height that planars do, but no box speaker does. Well, maybe the big Wilson's! Coupled with a pair of Rythmik or GR subs, a world-class speaker at a bargain price.

Last edited by BDP24; 01-22-2015 at 11:07 PM.
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post #17406 of 17426 Old 01-22-2015, 10:23 PM
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I'm looking to upgrade my subwoofer. My room is 1,800 cubic feet and enclosed. I lean 65% music and 35% movies. Would the F12 be enough sub for the room or should I consider the LV12r or possibly the F15? Also, it's stated for the F12 that effective q is .3, but the q adjustments show high is .5. how does that work? Thanks for your time.
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post #17407 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my subwoofer. My room is 1,800 cubic feet and enclosed. I lean 65% music and 35% movies. Would the F12 be enough sub for the room or should I consider the LV12r or possibly the F15? Also, it's stated for the F12 that effective q is .3, but the q adjustments show high is .5. how does that work? Thanks for your time.
For several years I was very happy with a single F12 in my 2100-ish cubic feet listening area (I eventually upgraded to dual F12s, but that decision was mostly driven by my OCD tendencies, not by lack of spl). While an F12 should be fine in your room, if you have the floor space and available funds, then just get the F15 (or two) and remove all doubt.


Brian explains the 0.3 intrinsic Q value here.

...
Salk SongTowers-RAAL / SongCenter-RAAL / SongSurrounds; Rythmik F12 (x2); Denon AVR-4520CI; D-Sonic M2-800S; Oppo BDP93; Panny 65VT50; Schiit Audio Valhalla; Sennheiser HD600; BJC everywhere
WDTV Live Hub; Xbox 360; Chromecast; Harmony One; Furman Elite-15 PFi; Omnimic v2 & REW; CalMAN 5 HT; i1 Display Pro 3; i1 Pro2; Salamander Designs Synergy
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post #17408 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
I've had numerous subs, and I come to the conclusion if you want bass resolution you have to pay for towers. There is no other way. Eg, look into the bass design (woofer and cabinet) of the KEF's The Reference series, they are far more complex than any subwoofers can offer.

http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/...iew/index.html
http://www.kefdirect.com/media/catal...abinet-wp2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IwMkhqo9U7...ecision_in.jpg

I switched from LS50 + Rythmik F12G to R700, and the result is improvement in everything.

If you can wait, the new Klipsch Signature line (RF-7 II successor) should be a very good choice.

Also, my experience with the F12G was so bad that I am beginning to suspect that there is a reason all other manufacturers have abandoned servo.
Your post is telling me that you did NOT properly integrate the subs into your system/room. That's all I get out of this.
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post #17409 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my subwoofer. My room is 1,800 cubic feet and enclosed. I lean 65% music and 35% movies. Would the F12 be enough sub for the room or should I consider the LV12r or possibly the F15? Also, it's stated for the F12 that effective q is .3, but the q adjustments show high is .5. how does that work? Thanks for your time.
A single F12 should be fine in that room but two would be definitely better to smooth the response. We are not offering the F15 (with A370PEQ3 amp) anymore. The price difference between the regular F15 and the F15HP is only $100 and customers usually go with the most powerful version.

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

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post #17410 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
There are four differences between the F12 and the F15HP:


1- 370 watts in the F12 versus 600 in the F15.


2- Different drivers, of course. The DS1510 woofer in the F15 has a larger, more powerful motor (magnet) than the woofer in the F12. That, along with the greater maximum excursion of the cone (and the higher power of the amp) allows the F15 to produce more volume with lower distortion than the F12. Whether you need the extra output, or if the lower distortion is audible, is questionable.


3- The F15 has a larger enclosure, allowing it to produce more output with less power, all else being equal (which they aren't!).


4- Price!


You can't go wrong with either. But the F15 isn't THAT much more $ than the F12, and you might always wonder if you should have gone big. Skip lunch for a few months to pay for the difference!
There's actually five differences between the F12 and F15HP:
1) F12 A370PEQ3 amplifier is class A/B in operation
2) F15HP H600PEQ3 amplifier is class H in operation
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post #17411 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 12:55 PM
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There's actually five differences between the F12 and F15HP:
1) F12 A370PEQ3 amplifier is class A/B in operation
2) F15HP H600PEQ3 amplifier is class H in operation
Iain (or Brian, or Enrico, or anyone else!), could you discuss the difference between Class A/B and Class H operation? Technically, advantages of each mode of operation, etc., as well as the resulting sound characteristics. This is something I've been curious about.
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post #17412 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 01:52 PM
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F15 with Emotiva XSP-1 and Marantz NR1604

I'm so glad I found this Rythmic sub-woofer thread. I just ordered a F15 in black oak with the A370XLR2 option for the XLR connection. My system is essentially split between home theater and dedicated stereo. I run the front L/R from the NR1604 to the Home theater bypass inputs on the Emotiva XSP-1 preamp. The NR1604 powers the center and surrounds in what is now a 5.0 home theater. The mains are ran through Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks.

I can hook up the F15 sub via the home theater bypass on the XPS-1 and let the NR1604 (using the subwoofer output to the home theater bypass input on the XPS-1) do it's thing for home theater and when I'm in stereo mode let the XPS-1 handle the bass management. Is this the best way?

My hope is to have the system run home theater in 5.1 and stereo in 2.1 mode. I think I have my bases covered but wanted to ask for your thoughts.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hope this makes sense.

Mark
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post #17413 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CincyMat View Post
I'm so glad I found this Rythmic sub-woofer thread. I just ordered a F15 in black oak with the A370XLR2 option for the XLR connection. My system is essentially split between home theater and dedicated stereo. I run the front L/R from the NR1604 to the Home theater bypass inputs on the Emotiva XSP-1 preamp. The NR1604 powers the center and surrounds in what is now a 5.0 home theater. The mains are ran through Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks.

I can hook up the F15 sub via the home theater bypass on the XPS-1 and let the NR1604 (using the subwoofer output to the home theater bypass input on the XPS-1) do it's thing for home theater and when I'm in stereo mode let the XPS-1 handle the bass management. Is this the best way?

My hope is to have the system run home theater in 5.1 and stereo in 2.1 mode. I think I have my bases covered but wanted to ask for your thoughts.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hope this makes sense.

Mark
Yes, thats exactly the way I do with my Marantz SR7008 and Parasound Halo P5 then to my Emotiva amps. I was between the XPS-1 and the P5 but at the end I chose the P5 because it has dual independent subwoofer in/out and I have two F12SEs. If you have one subwoofer then the XPS-1 is the way to go.
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Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
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My Multimedia Room Gallery

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post #17414 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CincyMat View Post
I'm so glad I found this Rythmic sub-woofer thread. I just ordered a F15 in black oak with the A370XLR2 option for the XLR connection. My system is essentially split between home theater and dedicated stereo. I run the front L/R from the NR1604 to the Home theater bypass inputs on the Emotiva XSP-1 preamp. The NR1604 powers the center and surrounds in what is now a 5.0 home theater. The mains are ran through Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks.

I can hook up the F15 sub via the home theater bypass on the XPS-1 and let the NR1604 (using the subwoofer output to the home theater bypass input on the XPS-1) do it's thing for home theater and when I'm in stereo mode let the XPS-1 handle the bass management. Is this the best way?

My hope is to have the system run home theater in 5.1 and stereo in 2.1 mode. I think I have my bases covered but wanted to ask for your thoughts.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hope this makes sense.

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Yes, thats exactly the way I do with my Marantz SR7008 and Parasound Halo P5 then to my Emotiva amps. I was between the XPS-1 and the P5 but at the end I chose the P5 because it has dual independent subwoofer in/out and I have two F12SEs. If you have one subwoofer then the XPS-1 is the way to go.
CincyMat/Enrico,

Don't know if you've considered the Oppo BDP-105D as a pre/pro well as a universal player. The BDP-105D has a very good analogue section and the highly thought of ESS Techonologies Sabre Reference 9018 DAC. The thinking is the shortest and direct connection from source to amp.

One can connect the XLR and sub out of the BDP-105D to the Rythmik sub and external amps for stereo listening mode. The BDP-105D has levels and trims for the analogue section as well as bass mangement. Volume control is carried out on the Oppo in the 32 bit digital domain.

HDMI out of the BDP-105D to the receiver for home theatre mode.

The only pain is switching over between the two modes. Will need to manually do this from XLR to RCA on the external amp as well as the Rythmik. It really depends how fussy one wants to be.

Downside to this setup is lack of support for vinyl, a pre/pro is needed.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
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post #17415 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
CincyMat/Enrico,

Don't know if you've considered the Oppo BDP-105D as a pre/pro well as a universal player. The BDP-105D has a very good analogue section and the highly thought of ESS Techonologies Sabre Reference 9018 DAC. The thinking is the shortest and direct connection from source to amp.

One can connect the XLR and sub out of the BDP-105D to the Rythmik sub and external amps for stereo listening mode. The BDP-105D has levels and trims for the analogue section as well as bass mangement. Volume control is carried out on the Oppo in the 32 bit digital domain.

HDMI out of the BDP-105D to the receiver for home theatre mode.

The only pain is switching over between the two modes. Will need to manually do this from XLR to RCA on the external amp as well as the Rythmik. It really depends how fussy one wants to be.

Downside to this setup is lack of support for vinyl, a pre/pro is needed.
I do have an Oppo 105D that is connected to the P5 via XLR and to the Marantz SR7008 via HDMI. The problem with the 105D is the lack of HT Bypass, that's way I got the Parasound P5. I use the 105D as a main source for music and movies.

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

My Multimedia Room Gallery

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post #17416 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by laulau View Post
For several years I was very happy with a single F12 in my 2100-ish cubic feet listening area (I eventually upgraded to dual F12s, but that decision was mostly driven by my OCD tendencies, not by lack of spl). While an F12 should be fine in your room, if you have the floor space and available funds, then just get the F15 (or two) and remove all doubt.


Brian explains the 0.3 intrinsic Q value here.
Thank you for the link. That was very informative.
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post #17417 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 08:41 PM
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Iain (or Brian, or Enrico, or anyone else!), could you discuss the difference between Class A/B and Class H operation? Technically, advantages of each mode of operation, etc., as well as the resulting sound characteristics. This is something I've been curious about.
A more technical overview: http://electronicdesign.com/analog/u...rating-classes

Please note below is a (my) hand-waving description and very general with respect to pros and cons. I have designed all of those, though mostly at higher frequencies than audio.

Think of a "positive" and "negative" device that handle the top and bottom of the output waveforms. Class A keeps both devices on all the time. There is no distortion crossing over from one device to another as the waveform changes direction (polarity), but with all the current on all the time it is not more than 50 % efficient, meaning half the input power is wasted as heat.

Class AB sets the bias current so both devices are still on near the zero-crossing but allows the unused device to turn off when the signal moves away from center. This improves efficiency without increasing distortion (for practical designs) so less power draw on average and less wasted energy. Class AB runs cooler, natch. The majority of home amplifiers today are class AB.

Essentially a class H amplifier is a class AB amplifier with variable power supply that tracks the input signal. By not using the full power supply voltage all the time it class H operates more efficiently with less wasted power (heat).

Class D is much more efficient. The output is essentially switched between the positive and negative supply rails in a series of pulses. Depending on the design the pulse frequency, width, or both are varied. While highly efficient (can be 90 % or better) and thus much cooler in operation, an output filter is needed to suppress the high-frequency switching noise, and that filter means class D amplifiers typically have higher output impedance as frequency goes up. That can make them more load (speaker) sensitive than conventional designs. Class D excels at providing high power with relatively small size, weight, and power dissipation. A lot of pro amps are class D, and perhaps the majority of subwoofer amplifiers (high power, low frequency, a good match).

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #17418 of 17426 Old 01-23-2015, 09:49 PM
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Thanks Don, I'll read that now. Class A and A/B I'm already aware of, and have a couple of each type amp, both tube (Atma-Sphere and Music Reference) and solid state (Bedini and PS Audio). Class H I am totally ignorant about, so the tutorial hopefully will cure that! When I was choosing the amp for my Rythmik subs, the A370 being Class A/B and the H600 being H was a concern, but not enough to keep me from ordering the H600. My concern was whether or not there was is sonic penalty for the efficiency of Class H.
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post #17419 of 17426 Old Yesterday, 05:25 AM
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Thanks Don, I'll read that now. Class A and A/B I'm already aware of, and have a couple of each type amp, both tube (Atma-Sphere and Music Reference) and solid state (Bedini and PS Audio). Class H I am totally ignorant about, so the tutorial hopefully will cure that! When I was choosing the amp for my Rythmik subs, the A370 being Class A/B and the H600 being H was a concern, but not enough to keep me from ordering the H600. My concern was whether or not there was is sonic penalty for the efficiency of Class H.
Enrich and Steveting99,

Thanks for your responses. I demoed the P5 and the XPS back to back and decided I liked the sound of the XPS a little better. Most likely just the mix of other components in my system. I looked at the OPPO 105 but frankly it was not in the budget at this time. Also seemed complicated to set up as a master control center for my system. Maybe in the future as my needs change and I understand more Ill give the OPPO a try.

My sub arrives Tuesday. I'm looking forward to integrating it properly wth my system. Thanks again.

Mark
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post #17420 of 17426 Old Yesterday, 05:29 AM
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Sorry for quoting the wrong post in my reply above. Not accustomed to this board just yet.

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post #17421 of 17426 Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
Thanks Don, I'll read that now. Class A and A/B I'm already aware of, and have a couple of each type amp, both tube (Atma-Sphere and Music Reference) and solid state (Bedini and PS Audio). Class H I am totally ignorant about, so the tutorial hopefully will cure that! When I was choosing the amp for my Rythmik subs, the A370 being Class A/B and the H600 being H was a concern, but not enough to keep me from ordering the H600. My concern was whether or not there was is sonic penalty for the efficiency of Class H.
I have heard good and bad implementations of class G and H (similar'ish) but a lot of it has to do with the trade between bandwidth and power regulation along with bias dependence upon the supply (PSRR in the circuits). A good design should be transparent esp. at sub frequencies. Brian is a very sharp guy, I would not worry.

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post #17422 of 17426 Old Yesterday, 04:59 PM
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Still trying to properly integrated my subs to my speakers such that even at low volumes, I can still feel /hear that clean detailed sound when listening to music.

Regarding running them hot, is this (Subwoofer level) where it is advisable to make the change, as in raising both by a few dB or on the sub gain?
MY main speakers are set to small and crossed at 60hz.

Appreciate any input.
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Receiver: Denon AVR-4520CISpeakers:Fronts: Polk Rti A7 /Center: Polk csiA6 /Surrounds: Polk Fxi A6SUB: Rythmik LV12R X2Source: Pioneer BDP62FDDisplay:Panasonic TC P50S60[/SIZE]
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post #17423 of 17426 Old Yesterday, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimDub13 View Post
Still trying to properly integrated my subs to my speakers such that even at low volumes, I can still feel /hear that clean detailed sound when listening to music.

Regarding running them hot, is this (Subwoofer level) where it is advisable to make the change, as in raising both by a few dB or on the sub gain?
MY main speakers are set to small and crossed at 60hz.

Appreciate any input.
You can increase the volume by +3dB or +4dB for each subwoofer in the receiver. Also set the crossover at 80Hz instead of 60Hz. I have Polk Audio LSiM 705s and I have my crossover set at 80Hz. Before I had RTi A9s and my crossover was at 80Hz as well. For low volume listening you can try turning Dynamic EQ ON.

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
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post #17424 of 17426 Unread Yesterday, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
You can increase the volume by +3dB or +4dB for each subwoofer in the receiver. Also set the crossover at 80Hz instead of 60Hz. I have Polk Audio LSiM 705s and I have my crossover set at 80Hz. Before I had RTi A9s and my crossover was at 80Hz as well. For low volume listening you can try turning Dynamic EQ ON.
Thank you for the suggestions.
I will be making the changes.

Receiver: Denon AVR-4520CISpeakers:Fronts: Polk Rti A7 /Center: Polk csiA6 /Surrounds: Polk Fxi A6SUB: Rythmik LV12R X2Source: Pioneer BDP62FDDisplay:Panasonic TC P50S60[/SIZE]

Last edited by slimDub13; Yesterday at 06:25 PM.
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post #17425 of 17426 Unread Today, 12:42 AM
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Sorry if I missed it. That's a lot of thread. Is there any common wisdom on a good cabinet volume for the DS800 ci? The possibility of a narrower cabinet is appealing to my wife and our small home.

Thanks,
Mike
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post #17426 of 17426 Unread Today, 02:45 AM
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Question

Does Rythmik plan to offer anything in between the LV12R and the F12? It's a big jump from $569 to $874.

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Samsung PN64H5000 Recommended Settings
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