Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 599 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17941 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by joemannnnn View Post
I agree, it's probably my best bet.

My only concerns are resale value if I ever sell. Does the lesser amp deter others. And warranty support...if it failed, could it be replaced with a 600, assuming the 550s are no longer available

Yes. That is the plan. H550 and H600 power amp modules are exactly the same except for power cap rating. That is why we can service H550 amps in the future using H600 power amp modules.
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post #17942 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
It's a hard room, I can't seem to find a flatish response so far I have a front sub in right and back right corners

This almost like you have a boarder cancellation between 20hz to 50hz, instead of two peaks. Do you have the plot when only one unit is ON? It is best to go through steps of plotting one sub at a time and then two subs together to identify the problem. Close-mic measurements can also be helpful to double check the sub response with as little room reflection as possible.
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post #17943 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
But front corner loading both low and mid bass woofers (E15HP and FM8) should should make the omni-directional, long wave length low and mid bass waves bouncing off the floor/front wall/side wall arrive phase-aligned at the seats, right?

It's not the nulls and peaks I would try to minimize, it's an attempt to optimize the precision of the bass (to complement the Rythmiks :-) )
Corner loading should eliminate interference on the direct wave from the neighboring walls. It does not eliminate room modes, though. Placing subs opposite each other helps with room modes. If you place 2 subs on the front corners, it eliminates all but one horizontal room mode, but does nothing to help room modes on the front-back axis, which can be a big problem.

2 subs in opposite corners eliminates a lot of room modes (all but one) on both axes. But, because the subs aren't a mirror image on both axes, you don't get very consistent response between seats. Still, I have found that this is one of the best overall approaches with 2 subs.

2 subs in center wall positions along the long axes gives you excellent natural response without EQ and consistent seat-to-seat response, because the subs are mirrored on both axes. The downside is that this is much less efficient, due to no corner loading. If you have lots of sub output for your room volume, this is probably the best option.

I haven't had good luck with center wall placement on all 4 walls in a rectangular room.

If you have 4 subs, there are 2 optimal layouts, IMO:

4 corners is great for the benefits of corner loading, eliminating most room modes, and high output.

1/4 3/4 positions on the front & back wall eliminates an additional horizontal room mode, but leaves a single room mode front to back. You sacrifice output, but eliminating that extra room mode helps the natural EQ.

Both of these are mirror on both axes, so you get excellent seat to seat response.

Balancing output and eliminating room modes, the 4 corner placement + EQ was the best for my room.

From a technical perspective another interesting layout is the double bass array. This uses 8 subs. 4 in 1/4 3/4 positions horizontally and vertically (suspended) on the front wall. This eliminates all horizontal and vertical room modes. Then, there are 4 more subs suspended on the back wall, except they are delayed and out of phase, to act like active room treatment. This eliminates the front back room modes. So, ALL room modes are eliminated, for a perfect natural response and time alignment for all seats. You'd have to DIY this, though. I wonder if anyone has done that with Rythmik kits?

It's also worth noting that for the 4 sub placements mentioned, if you sit in the middle, good room EQ can cancel out the bass energy, except vertically.
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Last edited by rcohen; 03-03-2015 at 09:55 AM.
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post #17944 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
It's a hard room, I can't seem to find a flatish response so far I have a front sub in right and back right corners
Have you tried opposite corners?
Are you time aligning both of them to the listening position?
(An XT32 receiver will do this for you.)
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post #17945 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
The corner loading excited room modes can be dealt with using EQ (and bass traps), while loss of precision cannot be regained by the use of EQ.
That, at least, is the argument used by Steinway-Lyngdorf in their appraised high-end HT systems.
That's what I have found. If you had enough power power, naturally flat EQ is more important than output, but I have finite power and a big room.
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post #17946 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Have you tried opposite corners?
Are you time aligning both of them to the listening position?
(An XT32 receiver will do this for you.)
they are currently in opposite corners Left Rear and Right Front. This room is 17x13.5 but it has a 6 foot open door way. it seems like I am picking up the partial wall next to the front right sub and the 20hz room mode from the dinning room wall. when I model this in the rew simulator(with 17x29 room) I get pretty similar data to my measurements.
I do have a Yamaha receiver with sub eq the graph may have bypassed that not totally sure.

I'll try to measure the two subs separately with out the speakers.
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post #17947 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
they are currently in opposite corners Left Rear and Right Front. This room is 17x13.5 but it has a 6 foot open door way. it seems like I am picking up the partial wall next to the front right sub and the 20hz room mode from the dinning room wall. when I model this in the rew simulator(with 17x29 room) I get pretty similar data to my measurements.
I do have a Yamaha receiver with sub eq the graph may have bypassed that not totally sure.

I'll try to measure the two subs separately with out the speakers.
You might try each pair of opposite corners.
Also, make sure you have them time aligned at the listening position.
If you have one sub out on your receiver, you would need to do that manually (i.e. using REW), using either the sub amp delay or an external box, like a miniDSP.
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post #17948 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 12:53 PM
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Any time frame for new stock of the Rythmik LV12R?

Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #17949 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 05:24 PM
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Here are the front and rear subs done separate. second graph includes the speakers.
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post #17950 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 06:09 PM
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You have a big nulls in the same area for each sub. Can you repost with horizontal scale from 10 to 150?
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post #17951 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 08:01 PM
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here we are 10 to 150
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post #17952 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 08:11 PM
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Which subs are these? Man, you got to flatten them out by moving sub(s). What receiver or eq you have? Can you post a graph of both subs with eq engaged? Don't think it helps with dips and peaks in the same frequency area.
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post #17953 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 08:35 PM
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I have two fv15hp with a Yamaha 2030 this is the front right and left with subs crossed at 40hz and equalization turned on
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post #17954 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 08:40 PM
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That doesn't look bad, it's just the problems between 80-120 would require repositioning the speakers.

I do see people in the REW thread saying that you should not measure left and right together for that graph.
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post #17955 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 08:47 PM
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Look better. Does your 2030 eq subs? You can try to pull down that 20hz peak by turning on the FVs pEQ at 20hz, lower the gain knobs and remeasure. Any reason for 40hz xover? You should try 80 or 100hz xover and try using the subs distance tweak to flatten out the xover point.

Last edited by tvuong; 03-03-2015 at 08:53 PM.
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post #17956 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
Here are the front and rear subs done separate. second graph includes the speakers.
if you look at the first graph you can see the front left rigth have a higher spl from 30 up, I am pretty sure this is why the yamaha's setting cross over at 40hz. the 2030 avr can eq two subs individually.
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post #17957 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
That doesn't look bad, it's just the problems between 80-120 would require repositioning the speakers.

I do see people in the REW thread saying that you should not measure left and right together for that graph.
I thought they say don't measure left and right together. This graph is a measure of the right channel then the left. if you have both files open you can see them both on all spl
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post #17958 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
I thought they say don't measure left and right together. This graph is a measure of the right channel then the left. if you have both files open you can see them both on all spl
Gotcha, misunderstood
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post #17959 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:06 PM
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^^ There are many benefits of raising the xover point. My main measured flat down to 25hz in my room, Audyssey set it to large, I changed to small with 100hz xover. Remember your subs will do ALOT better than your speakers from 10-120hz, your avr will have extra headroom to drive your speakers from that xover point and up, your speakers are not being asked to pump hard to deliver the low notes.
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post #17960 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post
Here are the front and rear subs done separate. second graph includes the speakers.
Well, that definitely illustrates the benefits of using two subs!

Not sure what to say, except that you could play with placement, xover point, time alignment, room treatments, and adding new subs chasing improvements. When you are tired or broke, fix the rest with EQ and enjoy.
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post #17961 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ There are many benefits of raising the xover point. My main measured flat down to 25hz in my room, Audyssey set it to large, I changed to small with 100hz xover. Remember your subs will do ALOT better than your speakers from 10-120hz, your avr will have extra headroom to drive your speakers from that xover point and up, your speakers are not being asked to pump hard to deliver the low notes.
This is true, but some people like the impact of having surrounds and center that go down lower.
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post #17962 of 17969 Old 03-03-2015, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Any time frame for new stock of the Rythmik LV12R?
Enrico said around 10 days.

I'm also waiting for LV12r
But know i'm curious about LVX12

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post #17963 of 17969 Old Yesterday, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zibanez View Post
Enrico said around 10 days.

I'm also waiting for LV12r
But know i'm curious about LVX12
What's the LVX12?

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post #17964 of 17969 Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
What's the LVX12?
Well i read it in this thread. Here's the link
Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread


on 2015 post
Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

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post #17965 of 17969 Old Today, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ There are many benefits of raising the xover point. My main measured flat down to 25hz in my room, Audyssey set it to large, I changed to small with 100hz xover. Remember your subs will do ALOT better than your speakers from 10-120hz, your avr will have extra headroom to drive your speakers from that xover point and up, your speakers are not being asked to pump hard to deliver the low notes.
I raised my crossover from 80 to 100hz. I'm going to listen to it for a while and see how I like it.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #17966 of 17969 Old Today, 12:26 PM
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So, I have finally recently purchased my second FV15HP-SE for my 5100 foot room!!

Here are my newest observations while waiting for my sub to arrive:

My current FV15HP has light amount of hum that I can hear emanating from the woofer while the AV system is on with green light on sub (do not hear hum when AV system is off - red light on sub).

Also, I have two toggle switches along with two dimmer switches that control the recessed lighting and fan with light in same room on same circuit I believe. Before any of these switches are on the hum is apparent when putting my ear right up at the sub and can hear it slightly. When I either of the two toggle switches for lighting the hum increases and and I also use the dimmer switches is gets louder with each switch I turn on and loudest with all of them on.

When I pull the single RCA out of the LFE in the hum goes away. (this single cable was purchased at Amazon:

Mediabridge ULTRA Series Subwoofer Cable (25 Feet) - Dual Shielded with Gold Plated RCA to RCA Connectors - White

At this point...

I order two AudioQuest Directional (with ground attached ground wire) Irish Red Sub 8m and 12m cables for my FV15HP's. I ordered in two different lengths so that I can separate the subs in the future for better room balance but for now placing them next to each other in a place which worked well after doing the "crawl". Keep in mind that I have a Denon 3311ci which does not have independently controlled sub pre-outs.

I have also ordered the Panamax MIW-SURGE-1G Single Gang In-Wall Surge Protector for the subs.

Also, my AV company said I can try connecting the 3 prong AC power cord from the sub into a 3 prong to two prong adapter and go in the Panamax as they have never seen this adversely affect the sub performance (not sure about performance ramifications but also what about grounding?).

In regards to my Denon 3311ci I do plan on upgrading to new Receiver in future with XT32 with SubEQ but not now as saving that money to purchase my 4k TV in next 1-2 years and realize that by then the standard should be in place for 4k copy protection (HDCP 2.2, etc...).

Thoughts/recommendations are appreciated.
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post #17967 of 17969 Old Today, 12:27 PM
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5100 Cubic Foot room...
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post #17968 of 17969 Old Today, 01:06 PM
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It sounds like a ground loop plus noise coupled from the dimmer switches. It is very unlikely that the surge protector and new cables will help, though the new cables might better isolate from dimmer noise if the noise is radiated rather coming in through the power line. If you use an adapter to lift the safety ground and the hum disappears that will confirm it's a ground loop, in which case you should probably look at one of the passive isolators presented in this and many other threads. They will break the ground loop while preserving the safety ground to the sub. You could also try an extension cord as an experiment to plug the sub into the same outlet of the AVR to see if the hum goes away (or at least changes). As for dimmers, there are low-noise models you can purchase that may help. I have used them successfully in some applications but don't have an easy way to get model numbers and such (and they have probably changed anyway).

HTH - Don

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post #17969 of 17969 Unread Today, 06:47 PM
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I agree with DonH50 advice.

A cheater plug would be a great low cost option to see if that addresses the hum that may indeed be caused by the dimmer switches.

Personally I would return those AudioQuest cables put that money towards a new receiver or new display. Those will provide significantly more improvements and benefits to your system than those cables.

Good luck!
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