Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 612 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18331 of 18355 Old 04-25-2015, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by agg133 View Post
I ended up lowering the volume on the amp a bit and raising the avr level from -7 db to -4 db. I think it should be fine now, I pushed it real hard and didn't get any signs of trouble/bottoming out. I think I've spent enough time messing around with the small details... time to watch some movies or something. Thanks for the help.
Enjoy!
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post #18332 of 18355 Old 04-25-2015, 07:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Just ordered a pair of Klipsch RF-82 II's to try out. I want to hear what a horn-loaded tweeter sounds like and I figured why not while they are on sale. If I don't like them I can return them. These will be strictly for movies.
I don't think you will be disappointed in them by any means, should be a nice upgrade. I do think your money would have been better spent on the high efficiency designs offered by RA or PSA. I know Klipsch claims extremely high efficiency from their speakers, but not sure they hold up under actual testing to those claims.
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post #18333 of 18355 Old 04-25-2015, 09:27 AM
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I don't think you will be disappointed in them by any means, should be a nice upgrade. I do think your money would have been better spent on the high efficiency designs offered by RA or PSA. I know Klipsch claims extremely high efficiency from their speakers, but not sure they hold up under actual testing to those claims.
I've heard that their numbers are a little inflated. To me they sound great. Crisp clear highs and the horns seem to cover more of the listening area than my Infinity's. It's like you can't really pinpoint where the sound is coming from. To me they are not too bright nor fatiguing as others have claimed. I have no doubt that speakers from PSA or Reaction would be better I just can't afford to spend 3x the amount of what I paid for the Klipsch to have a complete system from PSA or Reaction. To my ears these speakers sound great and play nicely with my FV15HP's. One big happy family.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II rest coming soon
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18334 of 18355 Old 04-25-2015, 02:02 PM
 
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I've heard that their numbers are a little inflated. To me they sound great. Crisp clear highs and the horns seem to cover more of the listening area than my Infinity's. It's like you can't really pinpoint where the sound is coming from. To me they are not too bright nor fatiguing as others have claimed. I have no doubt that speakers from PSA or Reaction would be better I just can't afford to spend 3x the amount of what I paid for the Klipsch to have a complete system from PSA or Reaction. To my ears these speakers sound great and play nicely with my FV15HP's. One big happy family.
Oh so you already have them trying them out? Cool. I also didn't realize they were that much cheaper than the ID options mentioned. If that's the case and you are happy with them, sounds like a win...congrats! Were you able to tell if they seem more efficient than the speakers you are replacing?
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post #18335 of 18355 Old 04-25-2015, 09:07 PM
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JT, what levels did Audyssey set them at? -4? What was it before with your Infinity? Those horn speakers sound better with extreme toe in. Try 45 degree or play with toe in position. Also, have them at least flush with your FVs if you have not already. Horn speakers with high compression tweeter seem to sound better at louder level. Try them at reference with the gun shot scene from Open Range and tell me what you think. Be prepare to feel that shot hitting your chest.
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post #18336 of 18355 Old 04-26-2015, 01:25 AM
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I'm not sure if these question are already answered about H600XLR3 amp. Really interested in getting the E15 with this option.
Please be patient guys. I had a headache while trying to make this simple to understand and I'm sure I have done a lousy job describing this.

I have a pre-pro and and a preamp that I use for Ht and 2 ch system. If I use XLR3 in dual mode, what would my connections look like?

My set up is

Sherwood 972 -> 7.1 preamp
Oppo 105 -> 7.1 preamp
2 Ch. Dac -> 7.1 preamp.
Everything is routed via 7.1 preamp (Bel Canto pre6)

So from my preamp, I would connect preamp LFE out -> LFE in of the sub?

1. how would I connect my L+R to XLR3 balanced in? In this case, the only remaining balanced input left is "L source in". Do i need to use some kind of a splitter if I use XLR3 in dual mode? DO I need to use 2 splitters? first to split the signal from L+R to sub and amp and then sum the Sub signal to a single input?
2. Do I need to level match the sub for 2 CH music using Radio Shack meter+output control behind the sub? And then rely upon my processors calibration to automatically adjust the Subwoofer trim?
3. Why can't this subwoofer have 3 XLR inputs as its name imply to make life simpler?:-) 2 for Mains and1 for LFE?

Speakers: Pioneer/TAD S-1EX, S-7EX, Ascend HTM200
Pre/Pro: Onkyo PR-SC5508,Bel Canto Pre-6, Sherwood 972
Amp: D-sonic Magnum 7-3500
Source:Oppo 105, Ciunas DAC, SB Touch

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post #18337 of 18355 Old 04-26-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
JT, what levels did Audyssey set them at? -4? What was it before with your Infinity? Those horn speakers sound better with extreme toe in. Try 45 degree or play with toe in position. Also, have them at least flush with your FVs if you have not already. Horn speakers with high compression tweeter seem to sound better at louder level. Try them at reference with the gun shot scene from Open Range and tell me what you think. Be prepare to feel that shot hitting your chest.
Yes, about -4. I want to say Audyssey set the Infinity's closer to 0. I'll have to try the toe in position. I don't have Open Range, but it's a good movie so maybe I'll buy it.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II rest coming soon
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18338 of 18355 Old 04-26-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam1000 View Post
So from my preamp, I would connect preamp LFE out -> LFE in of the sub?
Yes.

Quote:
1. how would I connect my L+R to XLR3 balanced in? In this case, the only remaining balanced input left is "L source in". Do i need to use some kind of a splitter if I use XLR3 in dual mode? DO I need to use 2 splitters? first to split the signal from L+R to sub and amp and then sum the Sub signal to a single input?
Probably need to use an XLR summer to combine L+R into the sub. Also need to ensure the prepro is off when using the pre-amp, and switch sub fromn LFE to line-in, etc.

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2. Do I need to level match the sub for 2 CH music using Radio Shack meter+output control behind the sub? And then rely upon my processors calibration to automatically adjust the Subwoofer trim?
Yes. Yes.

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3. Why can't this subwoofer have 3 XLR inputs as its name imply to make life simpler?:-) 2 for Mains and1 for LFE?
It's the third-generation amp. Very few people try to do what you are doing so subs are not designed for this sort of complexity. You are essentially using one sub in two different systems. Making it easier for you would make it more costly for the vast majority of folk.

You might want to run the pre-amp through the AVR and see if you can really hear any difference. If not it would simplify things immensely.

Another alternative is to use an XLR switch box to switch sub inputs to the appropriate source.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #18339 of 18355 Old 04-26-2015, 10:53 AM
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Thx Don! You are right. The preamp is complicating things quite a bit. I have mostly kept the preamp in the chain for 2CH music. No processor in any mode has drawn me into music like this DAC+preamp combo.

So, the new sub will offer me flexibility in terms of connectivity.
Will I get any SQ improvement by going to E15-H600XLR3 from D15SE which is driven by A370 plate amp?
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/D15SE.html

Speakers: Pioneer/TAD S-1EX, S-7EX, Ascend HTM200
Pre/Pro: Onkyo PR-SC5508,Bel Canto Pre-6, Sherwood 972
Amp: D-sonic Magnum 7-3500
Source:Oppo 105, Ciunas DAC, SB Touch
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post #18340 of 18355 Old 04-26-2015, 12:30 PM
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Since I have not heard both subs, I could say if you'll hear any sonic difference, but I really doubt it unless you have a need for XLRs and/or the extra 2.1 dB of headroom. OTOH, adding a second sub can help smooth in-room frequency response. If you've the room and funds I would get a second D15SE instead.

IMO - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #18341 of 18355 Old 04-29-2015, 09:33 AM
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Wanted to share these pictures with you guys. A F25 paired with Tyler Acoustics Woodmere speakers in a 5.1 Mastering Studio. Pictures courtesy of Jorge Santos at Omega Mastering (www.omegamastering.com). BTW, Jorge Santos is a 5 time Latin Grammy Award winner!!!






Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

My Multimedia Room Gallery

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post #18342 of 18355 Old 04-29-2015, 09:39 AM
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Cool stuff enrico.
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post #18343 of 18355 Old 04-29-2015, 09:49 AM
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Wowzah! Looks awesome. And I'm really digging those diffusrion (?) panels.

Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #18344 of 18355 Old 04-29-2015, 10:35 AM
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6 foot tall speakers? It sure makes the F25 look short.
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post #18345 of 18355 Old 04-29-2015, 11:10 AM
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6 foot tall speakers? It sure makes the F25 look short.
What about the center channel speaker? It's a Dunlavy Audio SC-II

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

My Multimedia Room Gallery

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post #18346 of 18355 Old 04-29-2015, 11:28 AM
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Now that's a mixing studio! Thanks for sharing, Enrico, and BIG kudo's to Brian!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #18347 of 18355 Old 04-30-2015, 03:32 PM
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enricoclaudio, cool setup there.

Must resist urge to upgrade, must resist... Dual F25s are perfectly reasonable purchases and imagine the bass.



I noticed on the monitor, holy clipped/compressed waveforms Batman! Making my ears hurt and bleed thinking about how it sounds.
YMMV.

Best regards,
KvE
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post #18348 of 18355 Old 04-30-2015, 04:00 PM
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Very nice!! What does it look like he has decoupling the center channel? That would work great to place my CMT-340 SE on.
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post #18349 of 18355 Old Today, 01:43 AM
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Now that's a mixing studio! Thanks for sharing, Enrico, and BIG kudo's to Brian!
The owner/engineer is obviously way more serious about "good" sound than any recording/mixing studio I've been in. Your typical Rock 'n' Roll studio and engineer is not trying to get an honest/uncolored/transparent recording of real instruments in an acoustic environment (a room), but more likely a "punchy" (i.e. loud) sound that nothing to do with an instrument's real sound. Compression, equalization, synthetic reverb, etc., mock audiophile concerns. And the monitor loudspeakers in those studios are the most horrendous, highly colored things you've ever heard in your life! Auratones (car speakers!)? Yamaha NS10's? Tannoy? Oy!

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post #18350 of 18355 Old Today, 11:09 AM
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I've not been a lot of them but most had a wide range of gear. Mastering used high-end gear; final mix a variety. It's a problem for a lot of genres when it's expected to sound good at home, in the car, or at the club. Stuff I was involved with often was tweaked for a good home system but we'd give a listen on other speakers (including those much-maligned NS10's) to make sure it sounded OK. I liked doing the stuff targeting audiophiles, natch, but it's a pretty small niche.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #18351 of 18355 Old Today, 03:19 PM
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I've not been a lot of them but most had a wide range of gear. Mastering used high-end gear; final mix a variety. It's a problem for a lot of genres when it's expected to sound good at home, in the car, or at the club. Stuff I was involved with often was tweaked for a good home system but we'd give a listen on other speakers (including those much-maligned NS10's) to make sure it sounded OK. I liked doing the stuff targeting audiophiles, natch, but it's a pretty small niche.
Exactly! That is the very essence of the "audiophile" conundrum. The vast majority of commercial recordings are already severely compromised in sound quality by the time we acquire them on LP, CD, SACD, digital files, whatever. We assemble our home systems in a valiant attempt to be able to listen to reproduced music that bears some semblance to real, live music. But when the source material has already been "processed" to the degree and in the manner in which it has, is that even remotely anymore possible? Is it, in reality, a lost cause, being already too late? OF COURSE the business men of the music world want to make as much money as possible, and to do so target the lowest common denominator---those listeners who have bought the story that a Bose system is State of the Art, but until they have such a system, will listen to music on ear buds, car radios, the sound bars under their TV's, Home Theater systems (no offence, anyone), etc. Recordings are engineered to sound as "exciting" as possible through those kinds of systems, and there is nothing we can do to reverse that engineering. The assumption in the mass-market music business is that recordings, pre-processed, would not sound as "exciting" (i.e. louder) to their target audience if not so processed. and consumers would therefore buy someone else's "product". It has turned into a "my record is louder than your record" game. The concept of a recording capturing the natural sound of music is a quaint notion, lusted after by only 1/10th of 1 per cent of music buying consumers. Until music consumers make it clear they don't want their music produced in the way it currently is (highly processed through compressors, limiters, equalizers, digitizers---and those are just the tip of the iceberg), nothing will change. Now, go play some music on your turntable/arm/cartridge, SACD player, or 24/192 download, through your tube pre-amp and Class A power amps feeding your 6 foot tall panel speakers, and make the best of a bad situation. What choice do you have?!
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post #18352 of 18355 Old Today, 03:32 PM
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My TT and tube pre- and power amps are in storage and my SACD player is broke, but my six foot tall panels are still going... As are my Rythmik subs.

Sometimes you have to forget all the %$%# and just listen to the music.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Exactly! That is the very essence of the "audiophile" conundrum. The vast majority of commercial recordings are already severely compromised in sound quality by the time we acquire them on LP, CD, SACD, digital files, whatever. We assemble our home systems in a valiant attempt to be able to listen to reproduced music that bears some semblance to real, live music. But when the source material has already been "processed" to the degree and in the manner in which it has, is that even remotely anymore possible? Is it, in reality, a lost cause, being already too late? OF COURSE the business men of the music world want to make as much money as possible, and to do so target the lowest common denominator---those listeners who have bought the story that a Bose system is State of the Art, but until they have such a system, will listen to music on ear buds, car radios, the sound bars under their TV's, Home Theater systems (no offence, anyone), etc. Recordings are engineered to sound as "exciting" as possible through those kinds of systems, and there is nothing we can do to reverse that engineering. The assumption in the mass-market music business is that recordings, pre-processed, would not sound as "exciting" (i.e. louder) to their target audience if not so processed. and consumers would therefore buy someone else's "product". It has turned into a "my record is louder than your record" game. The concept of a recording capturing the natural sound of music is a quaint notion, lusted after by only 1/10th of 1 per cent of music buying consumers. Until music consumers make it clear they don't want their music produced in the way it currently is (highly processed through compressors, limiters, equalizers, digitizers---and those are just the tip of the iceberg), nothing will change. Now, go play some music on your turntable/arm/cartridge, SACD player, or 24/192 download, through your tube pre-amp and Class A power amps feeding your 6 foot tall panel speakers, and make the best of a bad situation. What choice do you have?!
This is one area that I've found to be interesting as I've gotten into speakers that focus on efficiency and dynamics.
I got into it because people said it was good for movies.
One that I've discovered is that it makes over-processed commercial music sound great (especially CD/FLAC).
In the past, I've been pretty frustrated how commercial music would sound great on crappy systems, but terrible my audiophile system.
With highly dynamic speakers, the commercial music sounds great, and great recordings sound even better.

I'm not sure, but part of me suspects that it's actually the high efficiency high dynamic speaker that's the accurate one, and that the audiophile speakers have unnatural timbres that have been tailored to appeal to random niches (combined with very pretty enclosures), rather than to deliver accurate sound. Some music sounds great on them. Some sounds awful. It's kind of random since the music was presumably mastered on neutral speakers, not the random audiophile speaker that we happen to own.

BTW, these days I'm also using Dirac to tune the target curve to one that sounds natural and lifelike, as well as sounding great on my favorite music.
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This is one area that I've found to be interesting as I've gotten into speakers that focus on efficiency and dynamics.
I got into it because people said it was good for movies.
One that I've discovered is that it makes over-processed commercial music sound great (especially CD/FLAC).
In the past, I've been pretty frustrated how commercial music would sound great on crappy systems, but terrible my audiophile system.
With highly dynamic speakers, the commercial music sounds great, and great recordings sound even better.

I'm not sure, but part of me suspects that it's actually the high efficiency high dynamic speaker that's the accurate one, and that the audiophile speakers have unnatural timbres that have been tailored to appeal to random niches (combined with very pretty enclosures), rather than to deliver accurate sound. Some music sounds great on them. Some sounds awful. It's kind of random since the music was presumably mastered on neutral speakers, not the random audiophile speaker that we happen to own.

BTW, these days I'm also using Dirac to tune the target curve to one that sounds natural and lifelike, as well as sounding great on my favorite music.
J. Gordon Holt, in his last couple of decades, argued the case that "audiophile" speakers were tailored to provide depth at the expense of immediacy/presence/aliveness, having a depressed frequency response right in the range affecting those sound characteristics. I think of him every time I hear a pair of Vandersteens! He contended that the more "forward" sound of horns and other high-sensitivity speakers was actually more accurate than the audiophile speaker sound, and I don't disagree. But then horns have their own colorations, don't they? It is, as always, a compromise, choosing the imperfections one prefers to live with. I've been saying for a long time that high-sensitivity speakers are the way to go for movies (where it's all about dynamics---a major failing of low-sensitivity speakers), and that it's best to have a separate system for music. But you're point that they're also good for commercial music is a sound (no pun intended) one. Listening as I do to a lot of simply-recorded acoustic music (Baroque in Classical, Bluegrass and Hard/Traditional/Alt Country in Pop), I have long been an Electrostatic user. Those have absolutely no business playing movies or commercial Pop/Rock!
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Then there are speakers that combine quality drivers with magnetic planar (Chane Arx) or ribbon tweeters (Ascend Sierra RAAL) that are sort of the jack of all trades. You can have your "audiophile" sound but also great performance with something like Audyssey for movies. Or use it for music too, if you like (I do).
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