Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 621 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18601 of 18627 Old Today, 09:46 AM
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Man, shipping dept. isn't messing around!

Reference Number 2: FV15HP-BM with H600PEQ3

Scheduled Delivery:06/03/2015From:Rythmik Audio

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18602 of 18627 Old Today, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Man, shipping dept. isn't messing around!

Reference Number 2: FV15HP-BM with H600PEQ3

Scheduled Delivery:06/03/2015From:Rythmik Audio
That was fast! Did you get black matte or black oak?

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18603 of 18627 Old Today, 10:07 AM
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Matte.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18604 of 18627 Old Today, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
It's hard to guess what you want, but here's what led me to 4x F25s:

Like you, I value my hearing, and don't listen at obscene levels.
I do want articulate, accurate, satisfying bass.
For music, I want a visceral feel to drums, but not headache or ear ringing territory.
For movies, I want to feel like I'm really there. Again, I want a visceral feel, but not a headache or hearing loss.
Especially for movies, this feeling like you are there is accomplished with subsonic.
I like lots of kinds of music, but definitely value good bass.
I love action and sci-fi movies.
I don't need to have my insides rattled, but I do want a bit of adrenaline.

I previously had 1x Velodyne DD15 placed nearfield in an open room, which is a 1250w RMS, single driver, 15" servo sub. Also, my couch was against a wall.
I was happy with this after EQ.

I moved to another house to a 6000 cu ft closed room, with a couch in the center of the room, and a concrete slab. No placement of the DD15 could give me decent results. I was getting serious room mode problems, and it wasn't enough output.

After realizing that I needed multiple subs and having a bad experience trying to buy a used DD15 on eBay (destroyed during shipping), I decided to try Rythmik, which had much more reasonable prices, and sell my DD15.

2x F25s on opposite center walls gave me the most accurate natural frequency response, but not enough power for satisfying bass.
At Brian's suggestion, I tried corner loading. 2 in the front corners took me back to room mode hell, but 2 in opposite corners started to sound good.
Still, I felt like a little more would be better, and REW simulations showed that 4 subs would give much better seat to seat consistency.
It didn't help that I preferred the 14-hi filter setting, which is the least efficient.

So, I rationalized that I was saving a lot of money compared to DD15s.
4x F25s in corners turned out to be great.
Satisfying subsonic in my room.
The super clean sealed servo & 14-hi sound that I like.
No more problem with nulls.
Corner loading didn't give me as good natural frequency response as center wall placement, but this was fixable with EQ.

Based on my experience (YMMV!), I'd definitely recommend 4x subs of some kind.
Better to have too much than not enough.
The sealed Rhythmics aren't monsters in terms of output, but they are excellent in terms of quality, if you prefer a clean, sealed sound, with good high frequency extension.
(For output monsters, look toward ported subs, huge wattage, 18" drivers, etc.)
It's hard to predict whether you will want 1 or 2x 15" drivers in each corner.
You idea of splitting the drivers with two dual driver kits sounds reasonable.
That said, going with a dual driver kit in each corner will give you around +6db more headroom (+3db for double wattage, +3db for double drivers), which is a lot. So, that's also reasonable.
You could start with 2 kits, then upgrade if you're not satisfied, unless that invalidates your construction plans.
Or, you could just go big, and be confident you'll be satisfied the first time.
Easy for me to say, with someone else's money.

One thing to keep in mind is that you don't perceive clean playing subs to be as loud as subs with a lot of distortion.
Some people actually prefer those distortion harmonics to get a fuller, louder sound.
I prefer the clean sound, though - just with plenty of output.
Also, 18" subs wouldn't be able to cross over high enough to work well in my room and with my mains.

In a smaller room, with wood floors, near field placement, etc, similar results can be accomplished with less.
The ported models have significantly more output, but the sound isn't quite as clean or articulate at 20hz, and you give up some subsonic.
Subsonic is neat. Not something you can experience in a theater.
Thanks for detailing how you came to have what you have. That helps a lot, especially since our listening habits and desires seem to match up fairly well.

6000 cubic feet is a whole lot bigger than the 3200 I would have (I would also be on concrete slab), and you're probably not getting much help from the room in the subsonic frequencies. I totally agree with having four sub positions. My likely course of action will be to get two F25 kits and build four boxes. It will cost me half as much, of course, and if I decide I need two more kits to have a full F25 kit in each corner I will deal with it then. It won't cost me any more in the end to do this in two tiers if necessary, so the smart thing to do is start this way.

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post #18605 of 18627 Old Today, 11:02 AM
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Im guessing since I will have one FV15HP and one VTF15 for a month, I need to run the VTF in 1 port open "17hz" mode since I intend on running the FV15HP in 2 ports open 16hz mode? Let XT32 dual sub eq sort out the rest... If I run the VTF15 in 2 ports open, or 24hz mode, thats a big gap.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18606 of 18627 Old Today, 11:10 AM
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^^^ That's what I would do if you intend to run both together.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18607 of 18627 Old Today, 11:11 AM
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Does anybody use this tool to setup their subwoofer along with XT32?

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/subtuner2.html

I know it's a pretty old tool, wondering if it still had some use.
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post #18608 of 18627 Old Today, 11:11 AM
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Yeah, they are gonna be run together for about a month until I can order the second FV15HP.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18609 of 18627 Old Today, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Welcome to the family! I totally thought you were gonna hop on the Cap 1400 or V3600. Coming from the original VTF15 you are going to see a worthy increase in output and extension. The cherry on top will be experiencing a servo sub.
The vtf-15h is what I owned before upgrading to the fv15hp...night and day difference, the op is in for a shocking surprise
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post #18610 of 18627 Old Today, 11:37 AM
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Can you explain?

Just curious of your impression. Just from reading numbers, I know the output is higher vs the MK1, and of course everything below 25hz is "better" (9db difference on databass for 16hz is pretty huge...)

Even with a Q of 0.3 I still find that when pushed I'd like the VTF bass to be a little more tight.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18611 of 18627 Old Today, 11:56 AM
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Gadget,

I ran low dampening for a long time and recently switched to high dampening. It's crazy how tight and controlled the bass is now. Low gives a more full body bass with prolonged rumbling. High to me is damn near sealed like and offers to my ears a bit more SPL. My drivers could be going crazy and they just stop on the dime. I put a video up of the intro to EOT and you can see the cones flapping like crazy and then just hit the brakes and go motionless.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18612 of 18627 Old Today, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Gadget,

I ran low dampening for a long time and recently switched to high dampening. It's crazy how tight and controlled the bass is now. Low gives a more full body bass with prolonged rumbling. High to me is damn near sealed like and offers to my ears a bit more SPL. My drivers could be going crazy and they just stop on the dime. I put a video up of the intro to EOT and you can see the cones flapping like crazy and then just hit the brakes and go motionless.

Thats good to know.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18613 of 18627 Old Today, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

WOW.

Looks like it was being pushed hard and had great control.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18614 of 18627 Old Today, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
WOW.

Looks like it was being pushed hard and had great control.
That is the only scene that can make my FV's chuff a little. Both subs were 6db hot and MV was at -15. In two port mode I get no chuffing at all. In the video it sounds like I'm getting chuffing throughout the whole thing, but it's really only at the end on the last sweep where the drivers are going bonkers.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18615 of 18627 Old Today, 12:08 PM
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Just reading the Amp controls, I am guessing the high dampening is a more "tight" bass, but maybe less headroom?

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18616 of 18627 Old Today, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Just reading the Amp controls, I am guessing the high dampening is a more "tight" bass, but maybe less headroom?
Correct.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18617 of 18627 Old Today, 12:20 PM
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From the site:

Quote:
A defeatable extension filter with separate frequency and damping control. The extension filter can be bypass with 14 Hz and high damping setting. Frequency is adjustable between 14, 20 and 28 Hz. Damping factor is adjustable between high damping (Q=0.6, or bessel filter), medium damping (Q=1.07, or 1.5 dB boost Chebyshev), low damping (Q=1.33, or 3 dB boost Chebyshev). There are a total of 9 settings available. You can use this filter to boost the bottom end or do minor correction for room response. In case you don't know, our competitor has a 6 dB boost at 30 Hz which cannot be defeated.
Looks like high damp is the low Q, which is what I preferred my Hsu at. IIRC, you can get a few more db's with a higher Q, but the bass is not as "tight" (at least on the Hsu). I prefer the hard hitting tight bass.

So when you went from low to high, you obviously tightened up the bass some.

So I am thinking I would run both on 14hz/High.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18618 of 18627 Old Today, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
That is the only scene that can make my FV's chuff a little. Both subs were 6db hot and MV was at -15. In two port mode I get no chuffing at all. In the video it sounds like I'm getting chuffing throughout the whole thing, but it's really only at the end on the last sweep where the drivers are going bonkers.
Cool. Since I run a little higher playback I will run both ports open.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18619 of 18627 Old Today, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
From the site:

Looks like high damp is the low Q, which is what I preferred my Hsu at. IIRC, you can get a few more db's with a higher Q, but the bass is not as "tight" (at least on the Hsu). I prefer the hard hitting tight bass.

So when you went from low to high, you obviously tightened up the bass some.

So I am thinking I would run both on 14hz/High.
Seeing as how the FV15HP is no slouch in the output dept go ahead and try out single port mode too. It might just give you all the output you need and that very low extension. Win-win...

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18620 of 18627 Old Today, 12:47 PM
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I noticed at data-bass that one port open is about a 9db advantage with one port closed, and then they even up at 16 and 20, and then after 20 two ports wins the race.

The other thing I noticed is two port open has a good bit lower THD from 14 to 24hz (at 110db), so that is why with my high playback levels I figured two ports open was the best solution. It still extends much deeper than I can get out of my Hsu.

I am also dealing with 5400cuft too.


Quote:
Notes

Comparing the 1 port open mode to the performance of the 2 ports open mode of the Rythmik FV15-HP shows that the 2 ports open mode has higher maximum output everywhere above 20hz. At 20Hz it is only a dB or 2 behind. The greater vent area of having both ports open also lowers the amount of vent compression and noise at the loudest drive levels. Distortion above 20Hz is also better with 2 ports open. The performance in the time domain is slightly worse. This subwoofer offers a lot of output from a modest size and for a reasonable cost considering the performance. The compression performance above 30Hz is very good up until the 115dB sweep level. 2 ports open is probably the better all around performance and recommended for larger spaces and people who need a lot of headroom. 1 port open mode is better for smaller spaces and people who like less loud playback volumes and want the deeper bass extension. The FV15-HP gives a solid performance in either case.
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63


How about the limiter? Ive always left my subs in "On" no auto, but I see you need Auto for the limiter.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100

Last edited by gadgtfreek; Today at 12:50 PM.
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post #18621 of 18627 Old Today, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I noticed at data-bass that one port open is about a 9db advantage with one port closed, and then they even up at 16 and 20, and then after 20 two ports wins the race.

The other thing I noticed is two port open has a good bit lower THD from 14 to 24hz (at 110db), so that is why with my high playback levels I figured two ports open was the best solution. It still extends much deeper than I can get out of my Hsu.

I am also dealing with 5400cuft too.


http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63


How about the limiter? Ive always left my subs in "On" no auto, but I see you need Auto for the limiter.
My setup is in a living room open to the rest of the house and is probably north of 5,000 cu ft. I sit roughly 11-12 ft from the subs and have no issues in single port mode getting tactile bass throughout the room. I leave both subs on auto.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #18622 of 18627 Old Today, 12:57 PM
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I'd imagine once I have two for sure, running it in one port makes a lot of sense. Get the 16hz and 12hz increase, and the combination of two subs probably makes up for running in that mode.

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18623 of 18627 Old Today, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post
How different are the subwoofers you are using? Are they both Rythmik?
No Rythmik, unfortunately. Had I known then what I know now...

I have a Leon, 2 TBI Magellans, and an Outlaw in a smallish space. It took about a day to dial in the positions, crossovers, and PEQ using REW and a MiniDSP 2x4. I say "a day" but that's after a year+ of learning how to do it
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post #18624 of 18627 Old Today, 04:10 PM
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DS800 CI kit one question

Regarding the CI kit 1: one HX580 drives two DS800-3 drivers in one sealed enclosure

What is the smallest box that can be used with this kit?

Can the drivers be positioned on opposite sides of the box to keep the footprint small?

If the drivers can be positioned opposite each other, should they be wired in or out of phase?

Thanks,

Mike
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post #18625 of 18627 Unread Today, 06:24 PM
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Shot an email to tech support earlier and got a FAST response from Enrico, also attached a sheet I had not noticed which was the FV15HP/PEQ3 Installation guide.

Lot of helpful stuff there. Looks like you simply pick 14hz/High for articulate sound or 14hz low for full bodied. He did recommend 14hz low for HT, so Ill have to do some experimenting!

Panasonic 65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Marantz AV7702 / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF7II (2) and RC64II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Panamax MR5100
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post #18626 of 18627 Unread Today, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohngt View Post
The vtf-15h is what I owned before upgrading to the fv15hp...night and day difference, the op is in for a shocking surprise
No offense but I don't like to see the 'night and day difference' comment unless a Rythmik is compared to a Polk Audio. It is misleading as the VTF15 is a good sub, the FV just takes a step or two further.
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post #18627 of 18627 Unread Today, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Shot an email to tech support earlier and got a FAST response from Enrico, also attached a sheet I had not noticed which was the FV15HP/PEQ3 Installation guide.

Lot of helpful stuff there. Looks like you simply pick 14hz/High for articulate sound or 14hz low for full bodied. He did recommend 14hz low for HT, so Ill have to do some experimenting!
Just remember to set it to 14/Lo 1 port mode before running receiver autocal. You then can just flip the switched and/or plug/unplug the port to compare. If it is set to 14/hi and/or 2 port mode when calirating, you have to run receiver autocal again everytime you flip the switch and/or plug a port. What AVR do you use? I know you will get a second sub soon but you do know that you will only get 10% discount on that second sub but if you order both now, the 10% applies to both sub ($254 vs $127 discount). If finance allows, why not getting two now?
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