Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 646 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19351 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:04 AM
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^^ you know you can do that with REW right? You can even see it on graph rather just numbers on spl meter.
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post #19352 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ you know you can do that with REW right? You can even see it on graph rather just numbers on spl meter.
By using the SPL meter in REW?

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post #19353 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ you know you can do that with REW right? You can even see it on graph rather just numbers on spl meter.
This was my thought as well...

-turn off audyssey

- adjust the phase on the subs till you get the smoothest response verified by REW

-rerun adyssey

-verify post audyssey eq via REW

-so easy a caveman can do it!

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html

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post #19354 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ you know you can do that with REW right? You can even see it on graph rather just numbers on spl meter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
This was my thought as well...

-turn off audyssey

- adjust the phase on the subs till you get the smoothest response verified by REW

-rerun adyssey

-so easy a caveman can do it!
But I will have to run sweeps in between each adjustment correct? I was trying to avoid running a bunch of sweeps and thought an SPL meter would be quicker and easier, but whatever I guess I can just do it through REW.

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post #19355 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
This was my thought as well...

-turn off audyssey

- adjust the phase on the subs till you get the smoothest response verified by REW

-rerun adyssey

-verify post audyssey eq via REW

-so easy a caveman can do it!
Hey! Thats offensive to cavemen.
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post #19356 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:24 AM
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No you are trying to find the best response between the 3 subs. That only requires one measurement per adjustment. You are verifying the changes you make are going the right direction. Meaning your extension below 25hz should flatten back out when you get all three subs playing nice together.

After you do this then you can run compression sweeps with just the 2 subs up front vs the 3 subs together and compare the difference.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
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post #19357 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:33 AM
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@basshead81 don't toot that guys horn he's a troll and brings little to no value to this thread. He only chimes in to make hater comments from time to time just so we know he's still around lurking in the shadows. He has some sort of creepy obsession with me.

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post #19358 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
@ basshead81 don't toot that guys horn he's a troll and brings little to no value to this thread. He only chimes in to make hater comments from time to time just so we know he's still around lurking in the shadows. He has some sort of creepy obsession with me.
lol
Ask basshead how much I helped him when he was a new member.
I have a lot more "likes" than you.
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post #19359 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:39 AM
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lol
Ask basshead how much I helped him when he was a new member.
I have a lot more "likes" than you.
Of course you have a lot more likes than me look how many damn posts you have. Count my posts and likes. Do the math! This isn't a popularity contest.

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post #19360 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 07:56 AM
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@Bond 007 I gave you a like hopefully it helps you sleep better at night.

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post #19361 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 08:39 AM
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I would do it all before audyssey too. Get all 3 subs working their best together phase and gain wise, level wise or whatever. And then let Aud polish it up.

Something I have started doing with XT32 is, I do measurements 1 and 2 in MLP, same spot. 3 through 5 in the middle of my seat, and 6-8 in my wifes seat. You seem to get a better response for those 3 spots vs measuring 8 different spots (many of which have little to do where you head is). Basically it filters 3 sweeps in our two seats. Now some argue that because they same your head isnt always in the same spot, but the retort is many of the spots if you follow the rules arent where my head is anyways... Instead of wasting filters jumping around, use them on 3 or 4 spots that matter.

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post #19362 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I would do it all before audyssey too. Get all 3 subs working their best together phase and gain wise, level wise or whatever. And then let Aud polish it up.

Something I have started doing with XT32 is, I do measurements 1 and 2 in MLP, same spot. 3 through 5 in the middle of my seat, and 6-8 in my wifes seat. You seem to get a better response for those 3 spots vs measuring 8 different spots (many of which have little to do where you head is). Basically it filters 3 sweeps in our two seats. Now some argue that because they same your head isnt always in the same spot, but the retort is many of the spots if you follow the rules arent where my head is anyways... Instead of wasting filters jumping around, use them on 3 or 4 spots that matter.
That's interesting I've gone so many different ways as far as mic placement goes when calibrating via Audyssey. I've stuck to the below placements for awhile now. Also, I use a boom mic stand, so that I am able to place the mic at ear level for each measurement. The mic stand made a pretty big difference for me and was money well spent.
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post #19363 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 09:15 AM
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Try these positions as well. Many has found they work best including myself.

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post #19364 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 09:28 AM
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Mine would be like 101, except since that is a table in between us I hit 2 there, and then where 7 and 8 are I take 6 measurements. The more you spread the mic around the more of the room differences it may need to filter. If you can focus on a couple of primary seats, and take more measurements. I also think the 3 inch adjustments are to focus it more, and I agree with that. In the past it was 2-3 feet between mic spots, and now my 7702 preamp says each placement should be no more than 24" from the first MLP measurement. So over time Audyssey has made the placement more strict.

I set the mic up in the MLP and took all 8, the FR was flat and the best I have ever seen. But, it was able to remove all the issue at that one spot, where as the more positions you use the less the filters can do. It got me thinking and experimenting.

A lot of the Audyssey hints here are incorrect, but I am not getting into that with the people in the thread. I have run sweeps with the glass tables in my room covered and uncovered and they were exactly the same, were as some will tell you to avoid those or being to close to them.

I think there is some merit, if you truly only have 2-3 positions, center on them and have audyssey build the target for those 2 or 3 seats in detail. When i get my new amp in I intend on taking one in the MLP, 4 in my chair, and 3 in my wifes. No seat backs, no armrests, no more in the center. My ears are never in those places. Now if you have an 8 seat HT I think you have to spread the wings a little and accept the fact it will be less ideal.

The thing to remember about Audyssey, especially XT32, no matter how many unrelated spots you do it is still an improvement over the raw.
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post #19365 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 09:40 AM
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Top is what I have been experimenting with, but in agreeing with spreading out a little more into a "cluster" is a good idea, the bottom is what I am considering. I like the 3" movement recommendation. In the past my measurements were spread out like 101B, but 3 and 4 were out in the chairs. I think that is spreading too much out when I do not need to.

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post #19366 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 09:50 AM
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It really isn't just about where your ears are. Sometimes it's best to give Audyssey more information about the space around your head, which is why people generally get better results going a few inches in each direction, sometimes even slightly above ear height.
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post #19367 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 09:55 AM
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I agree. But if you look at one of the common diagrams:



4,5,6 make no sense and its the same type of recommendation the on screen for my Marantz preamp gives me. I mean what, I am eq'ing for my feet? What I have learned thru moving speakers around, you need to measure where the sound is hitting you at, not way off to the side or in front. Just moving my center by 6" made some changes, granted it wasn't huge until you got over 1.5 feet.

Kinda why, after playing with REW and seeing what changes things and what does not, I feel like #1 in my MLP (between the wife and I for level and distances), #2-5 in the center of my seat clustered, and #6-8 clustered in the wife's chair is a much better idea. Bascially there are two spots we hear sound at, I need to cluster those.
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post #19368 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 10:06 AM
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When I first got this new Marantz the on screen told me at least 20" from the wall, and no more than 24" from the MLP with each of the next 7 measurements, below was the plan I came up with and have used for awhile. It sounds very very good, but I think I can do better. I will try it more clustered in our seats, if it has problems I will just go back this:

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post #19369 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 10:22 AM
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Selling my FV15HP if anyone is looking to add one. It's in mint condition, need to sell because it's a little too big for my space after re-arranging a few things.

If you are interested just send me a PM, it's a great sub.
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post #19370 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 10:42 AM
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Gadgt, so your seat is not centered? Can you not swap your seat and table so that you can be centered as MLP and can be next to your wife also?
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post #19371 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 11:35 AM
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Nah, then she has no end table for drink, phone etc. That fails WAF. This is a living room first, HT second LOL.
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post #19372 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 11:44 AM
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You don't need a table for a phone, and they make chairs with cup holders. You can always get TV trays or something.

Not to critique, but it isn't a movie night unless the lady and I are cuddled up!
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post #19373 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 12:10 PM
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The furniture type and layout is her dept, I just positioned my triangle and speaker aiming around it!
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How do rythmik subs compare to PSA subs?
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post #19375 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 01:06 PM
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post #19376 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 01:08 PM
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Nah, then she has no end table for drink, phone etc. That fails WAF. This is a living room first, HT second LOL.
Then add a third FV as her end table. Joking aside, it is best if you (MLP) are centered directly in front of your center. Aud only uses its first measurement to set distance/time align/level to MLP. From your pix, and the way you run Aud, your seat is not the MLP.
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post #19377 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 01:13 PM
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I'm going to try and get my hands on an SPL meter and test tones. I'll play a test tone at the crossover point of 80hz while making adjustments to the phase of the near field sub. Once I figure out what position on the phase knob gives me the most output at that frequency I'll leave it there and take some sweeps.
Low frequency response (i.e. below 30 Hz) will be a better indicator of whether the subs are in phase or not. If they are partially or completely out of phase, your low end will drop off very noticeably. That's why I suggested earlier to sweep with one sub, turn on the second and sweep, turn on the third and sweep. Takes 15 seconds plus the time to walk to the other two subs, turn them on, then walk back to your laptop and do the other sweeps. You should clearly see a bout a 5-6 dB gain from one sub to two, and another 2-3 dB from 2-3 subs.
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post #19378 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 01:14 PM
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lol
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post #19379 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 01:16 PM
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Low frequency response (i.e. below 30 Hz) will be a better indicator of whether the subs are in phase or not. If they are partially or completely out of phase, your low end will drop off very noticeably. That's why I suggested earlier to sweep with one sub, turn on the second and sweep, turn on the third and sweep. Takes 15 seconds plus the time to walk to the other two subs, turn them on, then walk back to your laptop and do the other sweeps. You should clearly see a bout a 5-6 dB gain from one sub to two, and another 2-3 dB from 2-3 subs.
I got the idea from this.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/setting-subwoofer-phase-easy-way-page-2

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post #19380 of 25598 Old 06-25-2015, 01:21 PM
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My experience is admittedly limited to dialing in subwoofers in my own room, so it is possible I am not correct. However, I have spent quite a few hours working to get dual subs dialed in using REW, phase, gain, placement, distance etc etc. I found that, when trying to adjust phase to improve frequency response, the low end would very clearly drop off when attempting to adjust phase to alter the frequency response in the mid and upper bass. If one sub is completely out of phase, you will get a drastic drop off in output down low. This is why I believe low frequency is the best indicator for wether or not multiple subs are properly in phase or not.

Edit: If I understand correctly, another reason this makes more sense is that FR is drastically affected by the room up above 40 Hz, but much less so around 20 Hz. So at 80 Hz it is hard to tell whether the phase is correct or not because the room plays so much havoc at this frequency, and how two or more subs interact at this frequency in room. So it is very hard to use this frequency to set phase properly.

At low frequency, you will usually get a very smooth, linear increase in output with multiple subs if they are properly in phase i.e. 6 dB for duals, 9 dB for three.
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Last edited by bear123; 06-25-2015 at 01:26 PM.
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