Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 646 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19351 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 08:24 AM
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No you are trying to find the best response between the 3 subs. That only requires one measurement per adjustment. You are verifying the changes you make are going the right direction. Meaning your extension below 25hz should flatten back out when you get all three subs playing nice together.

After you do this then you can run compression sweeps with just the 2 subs up front vs the 3 subs together and compare the difference.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

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post #19352 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 08:33 AM
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@basshead81 don't toot that guys horn he's a troll and brings little to no value to this thread. He only chimes in to make hater comments from time to time just so we know he's still around lurking in the shadows. He has some sort of creepy obsession with me.

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post #19353 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
@ basshead81 don't toot that guys horn he's a troll and brings little to no value to this thread. He only chimes in to make hater comments from time to time just so we know he's still around lurking in the shadows. He has some sort of creepy obsession with me.
lol
Ask basshead how much I helped him when he was a new member.
I have a lot more "likes" than you.
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post #19354 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
lol
Ask basshead how much I helped him when he was a new member.
I have a lot more "likes" than you.
Of course you have a lot more likes than me look how many damn posts you have. Count my posts and likes. Do the math! This isn't a popularity contest.

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post #19355 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 08:56 AM
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@Bond 007 I gave you a like hopefully it helps you sleep better at night.

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post #19356 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 09:39 AM
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I would do it all before audyssey too. Get all 3 subs working their best together phase and gain wise, level wise or whatever. And then let Aud polish it up.

Something I have started doing with XT32 is, I do measurements 1 and 2 in MLP, same spot. 3 through 5 in the middle of my seat, and 6-8 in my wifes seat. You seem to get a better response for those 3 spots vs measuring 8 different spots (many of which have little to do where you head is). Basically it filters 3 sweeps in our two seats. Now some argue that because they same your head isnt always in the same spot, but the retort is many of the spots if you follow the rules arent where my head is anyways... Instead of wasting filters jumping around, use them on 3 or 4 spots that matter.

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post #19357 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I would do it all before audyssey too. Get all 3 subs working their best together phase and gain wise, level wise or whatever. And then let Aud polish it up.

Something I have started doing with XT32 is, I do measurements 1 and 2 in MLP, same spot. 3 through 5 in the middle of my seat, and 6-8 in my wifes seat. You seem to get a better response for those 3 spots vs measuring 8 different spots (many of which have little to do where you head is). Basically it filters 3 sweeps in our two seats. Now some argue that because they same your head isnt always in the same spot, but the retort is many of the spots if you follow the rules arent where my head is anyways... Instead of wasting filters jumping around, use them on 3 or 4 spots that matter.
That's interesting I've gone so many different ways as far as mic placement goes when calibrating via Audyssey. I've stuck to the below placements for awhile now. Also, I use a boom mic stand, so that I am able to place the mic at ear level for each measurement. The mic stand made a pretty big difference for me and was money well spent.
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post #19358 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 10:15 AM
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Try these positions as well. Many has found they work best including myself.

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post #19359 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 10:28 AM
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Mine would be like 101, except since that is a table in between us I hit 2 there, and then where 7 and 8 are I take 6 measurements. The more you spread the mic around the more of the room differences it may need to filter. If you can focus on a couple of primary seats, and take more measurements. I also think the 3 inch adjustments are to focus it more, and I agree with that. In the past it was 2-3 feet between mic spots, and now my 7702 preamp says each placement should be no more than 24" from the first MLP measurement. So over time Audyssey has made the placement more strict.

I set the mic up in the MLP and took all 8, the FR was flat and the best I have ever seen. But, it was able to remove all the issue at that one spot, where as the more positions you use the less the filters can do. It got me thinking and experimenting.

A lot of the Audyssey hints here are incorrect, but I am not getting into that with the people in the thread. I have run sweeps with the glass tables in my room covered and uncovered and they were exactly the same, were as some will tell you to avoid those or being to close to them.

I think there is some merit, if you truly only have 2-3 positions, center on them and have audyssey build the target for those 2 or 3 seats in detail. When i get my new amp in I intend on taking one in the MLP, 4 in my chair, and 3 in my wifes. No seat backs, no armrests, no more in the center. My ears are never in those places. Now if you have an 8 seat HT I think you have to spread the wings a little and accept the fact it will be less ideal.

The thing to remember about Audyssey, especially XT32, no matter how many unrelated spots you do it is still an improvement over the raw.

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post #19360 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 10:40 AM
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Top is what I have been experimenting with, but in agreeing with spreading out a little more into a "cluster" is a good idea, the bottom is what I am considering. I like the 3" movement recommendation. In the past my measurements were spread out like 101B, but 3 and 4 were out in the chairs. I think that is spreading too much out when I do not need to.


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post #19361 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 10:50 AM
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It really isn't just about where your ears are. Sometimes it's best to give Audyssey more information about the space around your head, which is why people generally get better results going a few inches in each direction, sometimes even slightly above ear height.
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post #19362 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 10:55 AM
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I agree. But if you look at one of the common diagrams:



4,5,6 make no sense and its the same type of recommendation the on screen for my Marantz preamp gives me. I mean what, I am eq'ing for my feet? What I have learned thru moving speakers around, you need to measure where the sound is hitting you at, not way off to the side or in front. Just moving my center by 6" made some changes, granted it wasn't huge until you got over 1.5 feet.

Kinda why, after playing with REW and seeing what changes things and what does not, I feel like #1 in my MLP (between the wife and I for level and distances), #2-5 in the center of my seat clustered, and #6-8 clustered in the wife's chair is a much better idea. Bascially there are two spots we hear sound at, I need to cluster those.

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post #19363 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 11:06 AM
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When I first got this new Marantz the on screen told me at least 20" from the wall, and no more than 24" from the MLP with each of the next 7 measurements, below was the plan I came up with and have used for awhile. It sounds very very good, but I think I can do better. I will try it more clustered in our seats, if it has problems I will just go back this:


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post #19364 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 11:22 AM
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Selling my FV15HP if anyone is looking to add one. It's in mint condition, need to sell because it's a little too big for my space after re-arranging a few things.

If you are interested just send me a PM, it's a great sub.
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post #19365 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 11:42 AM
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Gadgt, so your seat is not centered? Can you not swap your seat and table so that you can be centered as MLP and can be next to your wife also?
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post #19366 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 12:35 PM
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Nah, then she has no end table for drink, phone etc. That fails WAF. This is a living room first, HT second LOL.

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post #19367 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 12:44 PM
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You don't need a table for a phone, and they make chairs with cup holders. You can always get TV trays or something.

Not to critique, but it isn't a movie night unless the lady and I are cuddled up!
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post #19368 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 01:10 PM
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The furniture type and layout is her dept, I just positioned my triangle and speaker aiming around it!

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post #19369 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 01:52 PM
 
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How do rythmik subs compare to PSA subs?
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post #19370 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 02:06 PM
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post #19371 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Nah, then she has no end table for drink, phone etc. That fails WAF. This is a living room first, HT second LOL.
Then add a third FV as her end table. Joking aside, it is best if you (MLP) are centered directly in front of your center. Aud only uses its first measurement to set distance/time align/level to MLP. From your pix, and the way you run Aud, your seat is not the MLP.
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post #19372 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 02:13 PM
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I'm going to try and get my hands on an SPL meter and test tones. I'll play a test tone at the crossover point of 80hz while making adjustments to the phase of the near field sub. Once I figure out what position on the phase knob gives me the most output at that frequency I'll leave it there and take some sweeps.
Low frequency response (i.e. below 30 Hz) will be a better indicator of whether the subs are in phase or not. If they are partially or completely out of phase, your low end will drop off very noticeably. That's why I suggested earlier to sweep with one sub, turn on the second and sweep, turn on the third and sweep. Takes 15 seconds plus the time to walk to the other two subs, turn them on, then walk back to your laptop and do the other sweeps. You should clearly see a bout a 5-6 dB gain from one sub to two, and another 2-3 dB from 2-3 subs.
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post #19373 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 02:14 PM
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lol
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post #19374 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 02:16 PM
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Low frequency response (i.e. below 30 Hz) will be a better indicator of whether the subs are in phase or not. If they are partially or completely out of phase, your low end will drop off very noticeably. That's why I suggested earlier to sweep with one sub, turn on the second and sweep, turn on the third and sweep. Takes 15 seconds plus the time to walk to the other two subs, turn them on, then walk back to your laptop and do the other sweeps. You should clearly see a bout a 5-6 dB gain from one sub to two, and another 2-3 dB from 2-3 subs.
I got the idea from this.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/setting-subwoofer-phase-easy-way-page-2

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post #19375 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
My experience is admittedly limited to dialing in subwoofers in my own room, so it is possible I am not correct. However, I have spent quite a few hours working to get dual subs dialed in using REW, phase, gain, placement, distance etc etc. I found that, when trying to adjust phase to improve frequency response, the low end would very clearly drop off when attempting to adjust phase to alter the frequency response in the mid and upper bass. If one sub is completely out of phase, you will get a drastic drop off in output down low. This is why I believe low frequency is the best indicator for wether or not multiple subs are properly in phase or not.

Edit: If I understand correctly, another reason this makes more sense is that FR is drastically affected by the room up above 40 Hz, but much less so around 20 Hz. So at 80 Hz it is hard to tell whether the phase is correct or not because the room plays so much havoc at this frequency, and how two or more subs interact at this frequency in room. So it is very hard to use this frequency to set phase properly.

At low frequency, you will usually get a very smooth, linear increase in output with multiple subs if they are properly in phase i.e. 6 dB for duals, 9 dB for three.
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post #19376 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
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That's why I suggested earlier to sweep with one sub, turn on the second and sweep, turn on the third and sweep. Takes 15 seconds plus the time to walk to the other two subs, turn them on, then walk back to your laptop and do the other sweeps. You should clearly see a bout a 5-6 dB gain from one sub to two, and another 2-3 dB from 2-3 subs.
+1. I said that a page or two back. It doesn't take long to see.

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What you also can do to check sub level is to turn on only one sub with other 2 off, measure with REW, turn on the second sub with the third one still off, measure again with two subs, you should have a 6db increase in output. Now turn on the last sub and measure all 3, you should have another 3db increase in output.
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post #19377 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 03:55 PM
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Then add a third FV as her end table. Joking aside, it is best if you (MLP) are centered directly in front of your center. Aud only uses its first measurement to set distance/time align/level to MLP. From your pix, and the way you run Aud, your seat is not the MLP.

Understood, but when you have two people that share watching 50/50, the common solution is the first measure is the point exactly in between you, and then cluster a couple of seats to filter them with the rest of the measurements. How many home theaters have one seat or are setup where only one person watches at a time? Applicable for 2 channel music maybe, HT there are trade offs. That is why the whole system is geared around that mythical MLP right in between us, it's the best solution there is. If I make my spot the MLP it skews everything away from her, also screws with the eq triangle I worked hard to get. Using measurements from the wall, I measure from the same MLP spot all the time and the results for distance and level are spot on. Right now the RF is 10.2 feet, the RL is 10.1 feet, the center is 10.6 and the subs are both 10.0 feet. Can't do much better.

The MLP position between us is also only about 18" from my left and her right, so it really works well. Plus to my right there is another chair and to her left there is more couch and another chair. That point really is the center of everything and we throw football watching parties. From what I have tested out, there isn't a bad sounding seat in the house. And to be honest, I think sub/speaker model and placement have way more to do than mic position with resulting sound quality.

Ultimately I am calibrating to cover two seats, not one, and setting level to one side or the other would not make a lot of sense. As far as timing those horns are aimed properly and dispersing, its fine.

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post #19378 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 05:06 PM
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^^ does your wife care how the system sounds? In my place, I am the ONLY one who cares and they think I am too crazy about getting the perfect triangle. I even use tape measurement to make sure mic position is always at my ears level and use that for all 8 aud mic positions including my Umik-1.
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post #19379 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 05:07 PM
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Here are phase adjustments with only the rear sub. Unfortunately, that's all I had time for tonight. I can't see too much of a difference between the adjustments, but I know that when I turned the dial to 180 last night it made a pretty big difference in the output I was hearing/feeling.
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post #19380 of 27832 Old 06-25-2015, 05:10 PM
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^^ you want to do that with all three subs.
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