Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 655 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:23 AM
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I stopped using Dyn EQ a long time ago. I found with the speakers properly setup I did not need them blowing out the center dialog. Haven't missed it.


This is all 3 14hz modes in my home (XT32) off. So Tvuong makes a good point, just adjust to 75db like I normally would, then add a db, and Hi is close to low. That would be about a +6 or 7 db increase from what i see out of audyssey intial setup.


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Old 07-07-2015, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Gadgt, just bump your trims up a db or 2 with hi D and you are all set.
I found I needed the same, I'm really liking high but it needs a small bump in trims.

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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
6db hot is just about right for me with Dynamic EQ turned off. I found that with Dynamic EQ engaged the other speakers tend to over power the center channel. Specifically, the dialogue.
That's odd, and you've tried the reference level offset? I use DEQ and dialogue is clear as day, and I don't even have a center speaker. I used RLO to tame the bass a bit, and will use it to tame the surrounds when I get them, as it tends to make them to loud.

Because I listen far below reference, it really helps keep the sound "even". And if you listen near reference, DEQ is doing very little.

Last edited by Soulburner; 07-07-2015 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
What we hear is more subtle than what a frequency response curve can show and explain.
This is so true. Because damping affects ringing, you can't see its effects on a FR chart. Maybe you could see it in a measurement in the time domain. But you really just have to hear it yourself.

I watched Pirates: Dead Man's Chest last night. We listened at 75-80db in our living room and she thought it was too loud. I didn't, however the room has no treatments so at this point it is far too live.

Anyway, this movie has some great LFE, particularly with the Kraken scenes and whenever the Flying Dutchman shows up. High Damping gives the LFE a gritty impact that I feel is "smoothed" too much by low damping. Or how Brian would put it, when the ringing isn't controlled as much.

I'll keep testing more movies, but right now I'm following Brian's instructions (included in the box) of 14hz, high damping, rumble filter off if one isn't maxing the output of the subs, and so far so good. If you are maxing them out, you should turn the rumble filter on and try the other damping modes as well.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:19 AM
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So on one hand, we'd like to go with deeper extension, and on the other hand we need to keep the ringing to minimal so that we don't hear the long tail of the ringing from the sub. The life sound we hear every day does not have any ringing and it has no rumble filter. That is is really our comparison reference.
That puts it in perspective, and like we have said a happy graph does not always mean happy ears.

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Old 07-07-2015, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I found I needed the same, I'm really liking high but it needs a small bump in trims.


That's odd, and you've tried the reference level offset? I use DEQ and dialogue is clear as day, and I don't even have a center speaker. I used RLO to tame the bass a bit, and will use it to tame the surrounds when I get them, as it tends to make them to loud.

Because I listen far below reference, it really helps keep the sound "even". And if you listen near reference, DEQ is doing very little.
I've always left the offset at 0.

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Old 07-07-2015, 10:54 AM
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Me too. I watch HDTV in a range from -10 to -20db and blu-ray from 0.0 to -5db, to be simple. I do not care for it during HDTV, at all.

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Old 07-07-2015, 11:37 AM
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In my system there is almost no change in FR with damping but you can see the change in the impulse (time domain) response. And in the sound. Not in the extension, which I frankly cannot tell, but in the clean attack and decay or percussive sounds. Ringing and related ills are what drove me to design my own subwoofer back in the late 70's/early 80's and why I went with Rythmik today (well, about seven years ago now, hard to believe it's been that long!) It is one of those things more noticeable by its absence, and quite honestly a lot of folk hear a highly-distorted ringing sound and love it because it is so much "louder" than a true low-distortion subwoofer with good impulse response. Eventually the boom has to go (I was going to say that eventually we grow up, but pretty sure my wife and kids will quickly point out in my case "growing old" and growing up" are not equivalent and I am only half-way there. )

IME/IMO - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:44 AM
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I was car audio back well before home theater. I always preferred the kick you swiftly bass punch vs the grab you and shake you around for a second. I more referred to it as "muddy" or "boomy" when i was younger as ringing was unknown to me. I had found that I do not like excessive ringing, obviously, even before I knew what ringing was.

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Old 07-07-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
This is all 3 14hz modes in my home (XT32) off. So Tvuong makes a good point, just adjust to 75db like I normally would, then add a db, and Hi is close to low. That would be about a +6 or 7 db increase from what i see out of audyssey intial setup.

Plus extra extension with hi along with cleaner sound = win win situation
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Plus extra extension with hi along with cleaner sound = win win situation

They are all so close, even with only boosting the normal +5db I do in Low, I bet that would not be the difference I would notice (less output) with FR that close. The Hi damping will stand out to me. 0.3 vs 0.7 Q on the VTF15 was obvious. Effectively 1.1 Q to 0.5 on the FV15HP.

I am not sure how the FV15HP performs with headroom, but with the VTF15 the lower Q you had the less output by a few db you would have, but more headroom. And obviously "more sterile" bass.

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Old 07-07-2015, 12:58 PM
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^^ give hi a try with your listening level (-5 to ref, I believe) and see if the subs are struggling which determines if you are running out of headroom. Compression sweeps are the easiest way to know but there are only a couple real world movies that demand that type of headroom.
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:19 PM
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Talking

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Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Hey guys,

I'm already sick of my svs pb-2000. And getting ready to pull the trigger on Rythmik Fv15hp and wanted to know your thoughts on it vs the Svs pb-12 plus and pb-13...

Sense most of you own one. And know more then I. Would that be my best choice. 50/50 music/HT

Room: 18x12x8 sealed. "Like my bass"


Thanks everyone,

Dave
Went with the Rythmik FV15HP in piano finish.

Anyone have tips on hooking up setting audyssey xt32.


Thanks
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Went with the Rythmik FV15HP in piano finish.

Anyone have tips on hooking up setting audyssey xt32.


Thanks
Normally I would say that the FV15HP is overkill in a 1700sq ft sealed room, but I know you're only considering ported models and say you "like your bass", so I hope it blows you away.
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Anyone have tips on hooking up setting audyssey xt32?
There are some initial settings you'll want to set on your Rythmik before running Audyssey. They are included in the box but I'll post them here. Assuming you already have determined the best location - sub location is covered all over the forums and is easy to find instructions for. I'll assume you're using LFE-IN, as that is what I'm familiar with.

A. Set your sub gain to the 12:00 level
B. Set the extension to 14Hz
C. Set your damping to low
D. Turn the rumble filter off
E. Make sure the PEQ is off
F. Make sure the crossover is set to the highest frequency
G. Set the phase to 0

I am not sure how many ports to plug - I'll let others contribute regarding that. I'm sure it is also covered in the instructions.


With your AVR:

1. Plug in the setup mic
2. Set your subwoofers to measure to 2 (if you have 2)
3. Proceed to measure the first mic location
4. Audyssey will have you adjust the sub gain knob(s) until the screen displays 75db. Do this and continue.
5. Skip the other mic locations and calculate
6. Check the levels that it set your sub(s) to. You want to aim for around -6. If it's near the -12 maximum, turn your subs down a few clicks and try again, and make sure the screen measures the same volume for each (if 2)
7. Once you achieve near -6 as a level result, run the full set of measurements. Help with where to put the mic for all 8 measurements can be found in the Audyssey thread

After setup is complete, set any speakers that were set to large to SMALL and bump your crossover frequency to 80Hz. This you can experiment with later but it's the best starting point. You can then adjust damping to your liking and turn the rumble filter on if you're going to be near max output. You can also raise your sub level in the AVR to taste, and play with Dynamic EQ. Most people on these forums tend to raise their sub levels after Audyssey (in the AVR, NOT the sub gain knob).

Last edited by Soulburner; 07-09-2015 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:26 PM
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If you your version of XT32 will tell you that your sub level is too high or too low, and then let you use the on screen level meter, just set the volume as low is it will go to prompt that alert. 12 oclock will most likely be way to high. Other option is to us 9, 10, 11 oclock etc... and then calculate after one measurement and see where it set your sub. I recommend setting sub volume on the sub where the ending level result is around -7 or -8. That way a good 5 db boost still leaves you a little negative if you like to boost any. It seems a 3 to 6db boost is quite common after XT32 is complete.

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Old 07-07-2015, 02:28 PM
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My instructions with my F12s said 12:00 so that's what I started with. However, it was too loud in my room, maxing out the trims at -12. I don't remember where they are set now but it's probably around 11:00.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:35 PM
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My instructions with my F12s said 12:00 so that's what I started with. However, it was too loud in my room, maxing out the trims at -12. I don't remember where they are set now but it's probably around 11:00.
Yeah, one of my 15's is about 10 and the other is like 11.

12 is a generic suggestion most use, but there are other ways to trick it if it has the level matching meter on screen. When I try new modes on my duals, I just turn them both all the way down, it then forces me to set each one around 73-74db.

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Old 07-08-2015, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Hey guys,

I'm already sick of my svs pb-2000. And getting ready to pull the trigger on Rythmik Fv15hp and wanted to know your thoughts on it vs the Svs pb-12 plus and pb-13...

Sense most of you own one. And know more then I. Would that be my best choice. 50/50 music/HT

Room: 18x12x8 sealed. "Like my bass"


Thanks everyone,

Dave

The only SVS competition for the Rythmik FV15HP (ANY Rythmik, for that matter) is their SB-13 Ultra.

Last edited by BDP24; 07-08-2015 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:46 AM
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Do you guys think 107db at 10hz would provide any sort of sensation? Or does it take a lot more output down that low to feel anything at all? Just curious!

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Old 07-08-2015, 07:54 AM
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"Any sort" -- yes. Google Fletcher-Munson.

And quit obsessing about numbers, especially at 10 Hz...

If you want to "feel" the bass, and you are not in a room null, chances are you really need to turn up the higher (sub) frequencies in the 60 - 120 Hz octave. Or buy some shakers.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:55 AM
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In my experience the sensation sub 20 is more rattle and noise. And anything over 100db from a sub has plenty of feel.

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Old 07-08-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
"Any sort" -- yes. Google Fletcher-Munson.

And quit obsessing about numbers, especially at 10 Hz...

If you want to "feel" the bass, and you are not in a room null, chances are you really need to turn up the higher (sub) frequencies in the 60 - 120 Hz octave. Or buy some shakers.
I'm not obsessing anymore and my measuring gear is put up. Pinky swear! I'm just curious because I've always heard that it takes a lot of output down that low to perceive anything.

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Old 07-08-2015, 08:23 AM
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Yup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletch...3Munson_curves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
"Any sort" -- yes. Google Fletcher-Munson.

And quit obsessing about numbers, especially at 10 Hz...

If you want to "feel" the bass, and you are not in a room null, chances are you really need to turn up the higher (sub) frequencies in the 60 - 120 Hz octave. Or buy some shakers.
I tried running my crossover higher than 80 to achieve this, but the sound from my subs started to become unpleasant. It sounded slower and boomier. Almost like they were straining, and my output was only around 80db. And this is with 2 F12s using LFE-IN, set to 14Hz high damping and placed in the middle of the front (12 feet from me) and back (8 feet from me) walls, configured with XT32+SubEQ. I wasn't expecting that result.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:21 AM
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In that octave subs become localizable and room interaction also becomes more significant. That is, I don't think it was the subs, but how they are interacting with your room and ears. When I first got mine (also a pair of F12's) I piddled with higher settings just to see what they sounded like and they sounded like any other decent speaker up to maybe 120 Hz or (as high as I went). My room is heaviliy treated. To me, excessive volume in that octave sounds boomy no matter the source, so I suspect that is the issue rather than anything the sub itself is doing.

I have several other subs in the house, and one of them (can't recall now if it was the 12" Infinity or 10" Mirage) is really "loose" and distorted at moderately loud volume no matter the frequency, really falling apart above 100 Hz or so. Of course it really shows how much better Rythmik subs are in comparison.

I personally prefer a lower crossover point, a preference borne out by testing ages ago, so I cross over to my mains around 50 or 60 Hz. Of course, you have to have mains that work that low. Mine are rated to 35 Hz (Magnepan MG-IIIa), and will play there, but nowhere near as cleanly at higher levels as my Rythmiks).

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:08 PM
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I've noticed Home Theater enthusiasts tend to play their subs at higher levels relative to their speakers than do music listeners, but one of the biggest differences to me between live music and reproduced is how much more "physical" live music is---you're not just hearing the music with your ears, but also feeling it in your entire body. I don't know how much of that is from SPL alone (live music is much louder now than when I first started going to shows---my first was The Beach Boys in the Summer of '64!, thanks in part to much improved sound systems), and how much is from low frequencies in particular. Even with a sub cranked up, music in the home is nowhere near as physical as it is in person.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:38 PM
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Thats true. We have great local bands here and we watch them a lot. You get a real good kick in the chest live.

Kinda the reason I liked my fronts in 2 channel for music vs using the VTF15's. They have punchy and fast bass from the dual 10's and the SQ is very clean.

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Old 07-08-2015, 02:53 PM
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Hey guys is it safe to use this to clean the cone of my FV15HP?

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Center
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:15 PM
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@MrGrey -- yes, very, very carefully! I would not clean the surround, or maybe just pass it over lightly. Make sure you use a clean brush.

Re. live music: IME live music is EQ'd differently and is often much louder than in the home. Not always, but often (again, IME). It is also hard to get the same impact in the recording; I suspect mic'ing and mixing has a lot to do with it, probably more than our systems (no matter how good). A lot of mics roll off well above subwoofer range, and I suspect a lot of mixes target more mundane systems that will not support "live" bass levels.

It is a rare recording that has the percussive impact of a piano's hammers, let alone drums and such. We have a grand piano my wife plays and I love hearing her practice. Of course, it usually reminds me that I need to practice, too...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:27 PM
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I would love to audition one of their subwoofers but unforunately I live in an apartment. It's funny too because I live within 2 miles from their office in Austin TX.
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub
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