Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 664 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:33 PM
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Yeah it is a little bit of a pain to pull out the plug. I keep mine strictly in single port mode, so I don't really have to worry about that. Just looks so much better out of sight. Excuse the crappy cell phone picture.
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Display - LG OLED
Receiver - Denon
Speakers - Klipsch
Subs - Rythmik

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Old 07-29-2015, 02:49 PM
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Obligatory corny line: I knew sooner or later this thread would go to the dogs.

You could buy some hockey pucks or otherwise raise the center a bit to reduce the reflections while allowing it to sit a little back from the edge (and a little higher from the floor to make it harder for doggies to reach).

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Old 07-29-2015, 03:42 PM
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Long story short:

Need your guys help. Finally got my Fv15hp sounding fantastic. Then my wife got home from a trip about 2 weeks ago. And ever since then, I've been on the couch.

She can't get over how big it is. So I thought I'll give it time. Well time is not working! She actually love's the sound. But not the space.

The good news is she will let me spend more if I go smaller. I want as close as I can in sound tho.

Would two E15hp's come close in comparison? Or any suggestions? Also anyone know if there is a discount for duals?

Wish I would of waited and talked to her 1st. Think I have to pay the return shipping on this beast.

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Old 07-29-2015, 04:08 PM
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What is it about the size that she doesn't like? The height? Sealed subs will be shorter, so that's what I would recommend. I run 2 F12s on opposite walls and they are great, plus I can put small tables with 4 legs over them to give that space more of a purpose then just a sub sitting there. I would see if concealment is an option with the FV first before looking at returning it.
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Long story short:

Need your guys help. Finally got my Fv15hp sounding fantastic. Then my wife got home from a trip about 2 weeks ago. And ever since then, I've been on the couch.

She can't get over how big it is. So I thought I'll give it time. Well time is not working! She actually love's the sound. But not the space.

The good news is she will let me spend more if I go smaller. I want as close as I can in sound tho.

Would two E15hp's come close in comparison? Or any suggestions? Also anyone know if there is a discount for duals?

Wish I would of waited and talked to her 1st. Think I have to pay the return shipping on this beast.
It's not often I enjoy the fact I'm divorced and on my own, but stories like this make me wonder if it's really all that bad after all.

If she's down with a pair of E15HP's I say go for it. I owned one myself and was very happy with it. Duals will only be that much better.

If you take yourself too seriously, expect me to do the exact opposite
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:12 PM
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There is a discount for duals. Go to the website and add quantity 2 to your cart and you'll see it

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Old 07-29-2015, 05:22 PM
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I was real interested in dual F15HPs, just was unsure how it would handle deep lows and the two way shipping was a bit too risky for me. I was attracted to sealed for the tightness and then the servo for clean low distortion. I wish there were more reviews with measurements for the F15HP. Or at least a review on data-bass.

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Old 07-29-2015, 05:22 PM
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Oops.

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Old 07-29-2015, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Nice setup!! The only recommendation I have is to move the center channel speaker up front so you will avoid early reflections. Try to align the speaker grill with the front edge of the credenza.

The only recommendation I have is a Tele to go along with the Strat ;-).
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Obligatory corny line: I knew sooner or later this thread would go to the dogs.

You could buy some hockey pucks or otherwise raise the center a bit to reduce the reflections while allowing it to sit a little back from the edge (and a little higher from the floor to make it harder for doggies to reach).
It was just thinking that as I was staring at these hockey pucks I bought to use on the jack-points under my GTR, but ended up using just one for the jack. We actually have an ice rink I bought them at locally.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:00 PM
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The only recommendation I have is a Tele to go along with the Strat ;-).
Haha, that white one is actually an old Kramer next to a Taylor, with an Ibanez bass behind. The American Strat is on the back wall along with a Les Paul. The Tele is upstairs with a a few other guitars in cases. The sound of a Tele simply cannot be acceptably covered by any other instrument, much like a stat.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Long story short:

Need your guys help. Finally got my Fv15hp sounding fantastic. Then my wife got home from a trip about 2 weeks ago. And ever since then, I've been on the couch.

She can't get over how big it is. So I thought I'll give it time. Well time is not working! She actually love's the sound. But not the space.

The good news is she will let me spend more if I go smaller. I want as close as I can in sound tho.

Would two E15hp's come close in comparison? Or any suggestions? Also anyone know if there is a discount for duals?

Wish I would of waited and talked to her 1st. Think I have to pay the return shipping on this beast.
Too bad the FV size does not work for you as it is just awesome. With that said, I think the dual E15hp's will be an upgrade over a single FV. If you order two at the same time, there will be a 10% discount on BOTH subs.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Roberyu View Post
Haha, that white one is actually an old Kramer next to a Taylor, with an Ibanez bass behind. The American Strat is on the back wall along with a Les Paul. The Tele is upstairs with a a few other guitars in cases. The sound of a Tele simply cannot be acceptably covered by any other instrument, much like a stat.

With that collection, you have it just about covered! There's not much that can't be played on a Tele, Strat, and
Les Paul. I played with one guy who had a Taylor acoustic, a couple others with Martin D-18's. It's a Gibson J-200 that I want!
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
L22 can also be a very nice fill-in subwoofer. I have just recommended an E15/L22 combo with E15 in the front and L22 in the back. The customer previously use two Epik 12" ported sub. All of our sealed subs have closely matched roll-off chacteristic. In this case, the phase difference between E15 and L22 below 30hz is no more than 45degrees even with rumble filter turn on. This is just one example. Customer can use other combinations, F12/L12, F15HP/L22..etc and save money.
I am the customer that Brian recommended the E15/L22 combo to. I just want to say that Brian's recommendation was spot on. These 2 subs are working very well with each other in my room. I haven't done anything other than letting Dirac adjust the subs in my Emotiva XMC-1 set up as dual mono. The E15/L22 combo has at least 3 dB more output than the dual Epik Sentinels. The Rythmic subs also have amazing definition for music and plenty of punch for movies. This is a great combo for space challenged rooms like mine.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:04 PM
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Congrats, glad you took the plunge!

Off-topic: I met Les Paul way back in the 80's, when he had hooked up with Al Dimeola for an album, and they were at some little hole in the wall in Chicago. It was quite an experience for a young snot (even though I play trumpet and was actually running the sound board at the time; my brother had a LP Signature and was bummed he missed the fun).

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Old 07-30-2015, 12:38 AM
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I wonder if Brian will ever come up with sub that's got a passive radiator design rather than ports? The idea is that the passive radiator has a larger surface area which will give higher output, more extension and reduce the effect of any port chuffing. Thinking about the next generation of the FV15HP.

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Old 07-30-2015, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
I wonder if Brian will ever come up with sub that's got a passive radiator design rather than ports? The idea is that the passive radiator has a larger surface area which will give higher output, more extension and reduce the effect of any port chuffing. Thinking about the next generation of the FV15HP.
Wouldn't that be considered a sealed sub?
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:54 AM
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Wouldn't that be considered a sealed sub?
No.
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:55 AM
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I was attracted to sealed for the tightness
Myth.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Myth.
It may be "myth" status today, especially with good subs like Rythmik, but there was a time that acoustic suspension really did sound better. However that was some time ago, before computing made it easy to calculate box size, port size, etc based on the driver specs. The playing field is much more level today, but I think sealed still sounds better down to its natural rolloff (there's never chuffing or anything like that). Up through the rest of the frequency range they should sound the same.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:00 AM
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Myth.
It's not a myth. The port, the high pass filter, and the difference in low frequency extension all hurt the impulse response. The efficiency gains can make it worthwhile in some cases, and some people even prefer the ported sound, but it's not correct to say that they are the same.

Having compared the FV15HP and the F25, I found in 1 port/14/hi mode, they sound the most similar. They are extremely close above the tuning frequency. At and below the tuning frequency, the F25 had a tighter, more detailed sound, although you will need more sealed subs than ported subs to reach similar output levels (assuming all else is equal).

That said, the FV15HP doesn't emphasize the tuning frequency, so it's much better than a typical ported sub.

Edit: My point was that ported and sealed aren't the same. I agree that a passive radiator is closer to a port than sealed. It addresses port noise (but has its own problems), but it trades impulse response and low frequency extension for efficiency, just like a ported sub.
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:21 AM
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It's not a myth. The port, the high pass filter, and the difference in low frequency extension all hurt the impulse response. The efficiency gains can make it worthwhile in some cases, and some people even prefer the ported sound, but it's not correct to say that they are the same.

The difference can be seen from the "models" of ported vs passive radiators. Passive radiator subs are largely similar to ported subs except the passive radiator has a spider/surround too which creates an Fs point, similar to normal drivers. Ported subs do not have that Fs point. At that Fs point, the output from passive radiator sub is "0" because the outputs from the drivers and passive radiator are out-of-phase and exactly same in amplitude, perfect for exact cancelation. So when someone picks up a passive radiator, one has to understand to pick one with Fs at least twice as low as the actual tuning frequency. That normally means the passive radiator needs to be highly compliant which can be a problem during transportation. I have seen passive radiators with Fs as high as 10hz. For me, that is not useful at all.

Quote:
Having compared the FV15HP and the F25, I found in 1 port/14/hi mode, they sound the most similar. They are extremely close above the tuning frequency. At and below the tuning frequency, the F25 had a tighter, more detailed sound, although you will need more sealed subs than ported subs to reach similar output levels (assuming all else is equal).

That said, the FV15HP doesn't emphasize the tuning frequency, so it's much better than a typical ported sub.

Edit: My point was that ported and sealed aren't the same. I agree that a passive radiator is closer to a port than sealed. It addresses port noise (but has its own problems), but it trades impulse response and low frequency extension for efficiency, just like a ported sub.
That all broils down to the impulse response. What one is better? This is pretty much like the debate of "absolute" vs "relative". A lot of us like to speak from the absolute term (like which one is best), but in reality, we can only speak for relative term. For instance, while sealed subs may have better impulse response. But that characteristic is gone when the manufacturer adds rumble filter to a sealed sub. So it is not just ported vs sealed. It is also the execution.
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
That all broils down to the impulse response. What one is better? This is pretty much like the debate of "absolute" vs "relative". A lot of us like to speak from the absolute term (like which one is best), but in reality, we can only speak for relative term. For instance, while sealed subs may have better impulse response. But that characteristic is gone when the manufacturer adds rumble filter to a sealed sub. So it is not just ported vs sealed. It is also the execution.
Thanks for clearing that up. That makes sense.

So, ported vs. sealed is one of multiple factors that affect impulse response.

My point stands, though, that they are not the same.

Incidentally, I prefer the rumble filter disabled, but leave the limiter enabled.
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Myth.

This is exactly the reason I never fight customers opinion. If he had a ported sub and is largely happy, just want to get better clarity, I would ecommend our ported subs, not sealed subs. Every customer is different in sound quality preference, room and equipment setup.

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Old 07-30-2015, 09:48 AM
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This is exactly the reason I never fight customers opinion. If he had a ported sub and is largely happy, just want to get better clarity, I would ecommend our ported subs, not sealed subs. Every customer is different in sound quality preference, room and equipment setup.
But if one is happy with their ported and not ever experienced a sealed sub how does that customer know if sealed is really a better solution or not?

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Old 07-30-2015, 11:17 AM
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But if one is happy with their ported and not ever experienced a sealed sub how does that customer know if sealed is really a better solution or not?

Before I discovered Rythmik, I was looking at the SVS line of subs. I called them and talked to one of the engineers, asking him about the inherent difference in sound between their ported and sealed models (particularly the SB13 Ultra). When I asked about the difference in "speed" between them (the term used not in the literal sense, but in the sense of lack of overhang/overshoot/settling time/etc.---in other words, not starting speed, but stopping speed. I thought everybody in Hi-Fi understood that ;-), his demeanor took on an air of smug condescension, and he said "A 'fast' woofer would be a tweeter". Where I come from that's called being rude and insulting. He then said that the only advantage of sealed is in the room gain it provides in very small rooms, that ported outperform sealed in every other way, and were preferable in all but the smallest of rooms, sealed being recommended only for rooms too small for a "real" (ported) sub. Now, I'm no spring chicken, and I've had a fair number of woofers in my life---acoustic suspension (both with and without passive radiator assistance), bass reflex (ported), horn-loaded (JBL D-130's in huge Voice Of The Theater cabinets), transmission line (KEF B139 woofers in long lines), planar, motion-feedback (Infinity). Okay, I said to myself, here's an engineer who not only says his sealed design is no better than his ported, he says, in fact, exactly the opposite---that his ported is better than his sealed. I believe I'll keep looking, thought I. He had just talked himself out of a sale. Luckily, as that lead me to Rythmik!
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:15 PM
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Well, you were talking to an engineer so someone from that perspective is highly likely to think of speed in the literal sense even after the inferred meaning is explained.

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Old 07-30-2015, 02:01 PM
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I keep haring about speed of a subwoofer. I can never seem to hear it myself. I think of many smaller sealed subs as lifeless and a different person in the room thinks it is really fast. I think that serious bass is a personal liking. I sometimes think we get caught in terms or catch phases like warmer sound. Really the words are just adjectives to describe a certain perspective and in double blind test many can not tell a sealed from a ported design. I would love to hear Rythmik or SVS. I have heared JTR Orbital shifters, PSA ported, JL sealed and ported, REL sealed, Si-24 Sealed, gjallarhorn foled horn, and Ultimax sealed. I thought they were all great.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:50 PM
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Well, you were talking to an engineer so someone from that perspective is highly likely to think of speed in the literal sense even after the inferred meaning is explained.
Brian is an engineer (as am I).

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Old 07-30-2015, 05:13 PM
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I never heard a sub described as "lifeless" based upon its size.

While many associated "speed" with "fast" or "wide bandwidth", IME/IMO it is really about control. You hear the speed of a good sub when the sound stops after a drum stick or piano hammer strikes and the sound dies away naturally, quickly, without filling the space between notes. To you and others that may sound "lifeless". To me it sounds realistic and "clean". (Of course, "clean" has come to mean "sterile", with negative connotation. I can't keep up with how audiophiles redefine English.) But, some prefer that extra sound, describing it as "richer" or "fuller"; others think it "boomy" and "bloated". The nice thing about Rythmik is you can adjust the damping to choose your favorite sound.

Good subs sound more alike than different. The huge differences often raved about are often pretty subtle, at least to me. But, there are differences, and I can appreciate (or at least understand) them.

YMMV - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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