Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 667 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 556Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #19981 of 20001 Old 08-02-2015, 07:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 59
If anyone is interested I just listed my (2) F25's for a very very discounted price. Have to sell off my HT room completely due to moving. Loved these subs immensely while I had them.
wyld0 likes this.
BigCoolJesus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19982 of 20001 Old 08-02-2015, 07:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,917
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 936 Post(s)
Liked: 440
^^ that is crazy great deal. Where are you?
tvuong is offline  
post #19983 of 20001 Old 08-02-2015, 07:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ that is crazy great deal. Where are you?
NW Ohio
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #19984 of 20001 Old 08-02-2015, 08:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 7,211
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 667 Post(s)
Liked: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd10ac View Post
Is there anyway to find some output numbers on the L22? I also want to verify that at 20hz it is 2db above the highly regarded lv12. I am thinking of replacing my sealed 15" sub with the l22 and was hoping it would have similar output.
You mean besides the ones on the Rythmik site? http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html Brian is pretty exacting, and exact, so I would trust his numbers. He's another anal design engineer...

Since this keeps coming up lately, here is the table from the Rythmik site:

Output comparison

At 20 Hz, our subs vary in their maximum output capability. The output at 20 Hz is shown relative to F12.

F12: 0db (baseline)
F8: -1.5db
L12: -1db
LV12R: +2.5db
E15HP: + 3.5db
L22: + 4db
F15HP: +4db
FVX15: +6.5db
FV15HP: +9.5db
F25: +8db

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #19985 of 20001 Old 08-02-2015, 08:45 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Daytona Beach Fl.
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
You mean besides the ones on the Rythmik site? http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html Brian is pretty exacting, and exact, so I would trust his numbers. He's another anal design engineer...

Since this keeps coming up lately, here is the table from the Rythmik site:

Output comparison

At 20 Hz, our subs vary in their maximum output capability. The output at 20 Hz is shown relative to F12.

F12: 0db (baseline)
F8: -1.5db
L12: -1db
LV12R: +2.5db
E15HP: + 3.5db
L22: + 4db
F15HP: +4db
FVX15: +6.5db
FV15HP: +9.5db
F25: +8db
I have seen those numbers but I am looking for something more like cea numbers that are easier for a novice like me to kind of make sense of.
jd10ac is online now  
post #19986 of 20001 Old 08-02-2015, 09:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 7,211
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 667 Post(s)
Liked: 471
Isn't CEA for car amplifiers? Subs are typically measured for output SPL... I am not very familiar with CEA specs so I must not understand.

* Look here: http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...p-measurements

That is for the FV15HP; you can subtract 5.5 dB'ish for the L22. Or, for the L22, at 1 m:

111.0 dB at 20 Hz
116.5 dB at 25 Hz
121.3 dB at 32 Hz
123.5 dB at 40 Hz and above (more or less)

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #19987 of 20001 Old 08-03-2015, 02:14 AM
Newbie
 
Corbaatje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
If anyone is interested I just listed my (2) F25's for a very very discounted price. Have to sell off my HT room completely due to moving. Loved these subs immensely while I had them.

Wow that is a great deal, I'm tempted.
Shipping abroad would go?
Corbaatje is online now  
post #19988 of 20001 Old 08-03-2015, 05:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Liked: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Isn't CEA for car amplifiers? Subs are typically measured for output SPL... I am not very familiar with CEA specs so I must not understand.

* Look here: http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...p-measurements

That is for the FV15HP; you can subtract 5.5 dB'ish for the L22. Or, for the L22, at 1 m:

111.0 dB at 20 Hz
116.5 dB at 25 Hz
121.3 dB at 32 Hz
123.5 dB at 40 Hz and above (more or less)

HTH - Don
He is talking about CEA 2010 test numbers I think. Most modern DIY sub makers have at least one model with these results publish, and Databass has a ton.
gadgtfreek is offline  
post #19989 of 20001 Old 08-03-2015, 05:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 7,211
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 667 Post(s)
Liked: 471
Thanks, figured that out, and the link and numbers I provided are from CEA-2010 test results. I have not kept up with all the standards since letting my IHF CAC lapse...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #19990 of 20001 Old 08-03-2015, 06:27 AM
Exclusively Servo
 
Rythmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,963
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd10ac View Post
Is there anyway to find some output numbers on the L22? I also want to verify that at 20hz it is 2db above the highly regarded lv12. I am thinking of replacing my sealed 15" sub with the l22 and was hoping it would have similar output.
I believe you have XS30 which has two 15" drivers. Output from L22 is similar to that F15HP/E15HP, the 15" high power model.

Regarding CEA numbers, I think the most important max output data is 20hz which is the number we provide as reference. This is because 20hz is the number in practice determines the max "volume" you can set on your AVR. Once the SPL at 20hz exceed the max output, the limiter is going to kick in and that bring downs the entire frequency band subwoofer plays. 20hz is not really audible. So it needs to a lot of signal strength and that combined. At the same time, subwoofer is normally least efficient at the bottom end of FR. These two factors make the 20hz output more important.

In terms of Data-bass subwoofer testing, we feel the limitation of the test method penalize the subs that extends low and that makes the measurement looks bad. For instance, if a sealed sub is down 10db at 20hz (vs another sealed sub down only 3db at 20hz), the former is going to have better distortion number at 20hz becasue it is down at least 7db more than the other model. That is why I keep joking the best bass is no bass even from measurement point of view. The same is true for impulse response and waterfall plot.

Last edited by Rythmik; 08-03-2015 at 06:33 AM.
Rythmik is online now  
post #19991 of 20001 Old 08-03-2015, 09:18 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Daytona Beach Fl.
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
I believe you have XS30 which has two 15" drivers. Output from L22 is similar to that F15HP/E15HP, the 15" high power model.

Regarding CEA numbers, I think the most important max output data is 20hz which is the number we provide as reference. This is because 20hz is the number in practice determines the max "volume" you can set on your AVR. Once the SPL at 20hz exceed the max output, the limiter is going to kick in and that bring downs the entire frequency band subwoofer plays. 20hz is not really audible. So it needs to a lot of signal strength and that combined. At the same time, subwoofer is normally least efficient at the bottom end of FR. These two factors make the 20hz output more important.

In terms of Data-bass subwoofer testing, we feel the limitation of the test method penalize the subs that extends low and that makes the measurement looks bad. For instance, if a sealed sub is down 10db at 20hz (vs another sealed sub down only 3db at 20hz), the former is going to have better distortion number at 20hz becasue it is down at least 7db more than the other model. That is why I keep joking the best bass is no bass even from measurement point of view. The same is true for impulse response and waterfall plot.
Thanks for the reply, I do currently have an xs30se but was wanting to compare the L22 to the much smaller s1500 I previously had. Given the size and shape of my room I should probably be looking at the fvx15 but the much smaller footprint of the L22 has me intrigued for waf.
jd10ac is online now  
post #19992 of 20001 Old 08-03-2015, 11:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 251
So I finally got around to reading this and thought it was brilliant. All along I've been thinking that the damping control increases the effort of the servo to tame ringing, when actually the opposite is true: mid and low damping tells the system to add ringing electronically because the intrinsic Q of Rythmik sealed subs is only 0.3. It's all the more impressive to think that Brian is building 0.3 Q subs and is adding ringing to simulate what many other subs on the market do by their nature: ring.

Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings)
Denon AVR-X4000

And a little R&R:
Reaction Audio CX-10 (2)
Rythmik Audio F12 (2)

Last edited by Soulburner; 08-03-2015 at 11:24 PM.
Soulburner is online now  
post #19993 of 20001 Old Yesterday, 05:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,337
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked: 447
@Soulburner

That's interesting. I've been running mid dampening as of late and feel it's a good compromise between high and low. At least according to the measurements I took a while back.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #19994 of 20001 Old Yesterday, 05:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
So I finally got around to reading this and thought it was brilliant. All along I've been thinking that the damping control increases the effort of the servo to tame ringing, when actually the opposite is true: mid and low damping tells the system to add ringing electronically because the intrinsic Q of Rythmik sealed subs is only 0.3. It's all the more impressive to think that Brian is building 0.3 Q subs and is adding ringing to simulate what many other subs on the market do by their nature: ring.
Any kind of frequency dependent high-pass filter is accomplished with ringing (analog or digital).
For clarity, high damping = low Q = less ringing.
The Rythmik filter switches refer to damping (1/Q).

Last edited by rcohen; Yesterday at 06:22 AM.
rcohen is offline  
post #19995 of 20001 Old Yesterday, 06:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Liked: 651
Im still on 14hz, Hi damp, rumble filter Off/1.
wyld0 likes this.
gadgtfreek is offline  
post #19996 of 20001 Unread Yesterday, 07:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
Iain-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
So I finally got around to reading this and thought it was brilliant. All along I've been thinking that the damping control increases the effort of the servo to tame ringing, when actually the opposite is true: mid and low damping tells the system to add ringing electronically because the intrinsic Q of Rythmik sealed subs is only 0.3. It's all the more impressive to think that Brian is building 0.3 Q subs and is adding ringing to simulate what many other subs on the market do by their nature: ring.
What document are you referring to?

It clearly states on the PEQ page that "High Damping" switch position controls excessive "ringing", whilst "Low Damping" position has less effect on this anomaly:
http://rythmikaudio.com/amplifier_controls.html
Iain- is offline  
post #19997 of 20001 Unread Yesterday, 07:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,337
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain- View Post
What document are you referring to?

It clearly states on the PEQ page that "High Damping" switch position controls excessive "ringing", whilst "Low Damping" position has less effect on this anomaly:
http://rythmikaudio.com/amplifier_controls.html
I think he just got mixed up when posting.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #19998 of 20001 Unread Yesterday, 11:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Im still on 14hz, Hi damp, rumble filter Off/1.
Same, only with no ports on my F12
Soulburner is online now  
post #19999 of 20001 Unread Yesterday, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain- View Post
What document are you referring to?

It clearly states on the PEQ page that "High Damping" switch position controls excessive "ringing", whilst "Low Damping" position has less effect on this anomaly:
http://rythmikaudio.com/amplifier_controls.html
That's what I thought as well - but read that post I linked to:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...3395#post33395

Last edited by Soulburner; Today at 12:18 AM.
Soulburner is online now  
post #20000 of 20001 Unread Yesterday, 07:59 PM
Exclusively Servo
 
Rythmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,963
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 127
^^^^
I hope we are all clear on damping vs Q value.
Additional information about extension filter is at the bottom of this page.

http://rythmikaudio.com/eq.html

In PEQ that we control the boost or cut, higher Q value means narrow bandwidth.






-

Last edited by Rythmik; Yesterday at 11:35 PM.
Rythmik is online now  
post #20001 of 20001 Unread Today, 12:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 251
I was just reading about bass traps to reduce ringing and it led me to a thought regarding Rythmik servo subs.

If your subs are putting out sound energy with much less ringing to begin with, does that reduce your need for bass traps to "clean up"?

Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings)
Denon AVR-X4000

And a little R&R:
Reaction Audio CX-10 (2)
Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
f12g subwoofer , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off