Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 670 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #20071 of 27145 Old 08-15-2015, 04:53 PM
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Hey guys, I have an FV15HP. The other day I noticed the sub was playing at half the volume it used to. No settings were adjusted prior to this (nothing touched for past 5 months or so). Tried unplugging everything, but did not make a difference. Volume is set at from approx 50% from setup. If I turn to 75%, it sounds similar to before. Any idea what may have caused this?
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post #20072 of 27145 Old 08-15-2015, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Anyone else's have problems with wife/Gf when it comes to down to size.... I mean she's making return my Fv15hp which I love... I mean come on it makes me happy.The funny thing is she was upset when she found out how much it cost. But now that she likes her music etc. She's now going to let me almost spend twice what I paid. Just so they blend better in her decor. I thought I was a man. But guess I'm a mouse. Just saying...
She only gets the say so if you allow her to. Say no. Do you approve of every pocketbook, candle, or decoration she buys? Does she return them if you tell her to, or not spend a bunch of money on her hair, or nails, or shoes, or whatever? Compromise is important but it works both ways. Take out your man card and use it.
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post #20073 of 27145 Old 08-15-2015, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Quinn View Post
Hey guys, I have an FV15HP. The other day I noticed the sub was playing at half the volume it used to. No settings were adjusted prior to this (nothing touched for past 5 months or so). Tried unplugging everything, but did not make a difference. Volume is set at from approx 50% from setup. If I turn to 75%, it sounds similar to before. Any idea what may have caused this?
Do you use both (L and R) inputs? If so one side might have been pulled out or broken.
Any other switches/knobs bumped on the back of the sub?
Cat crawled into a port?
Could also be something in your AVR changed, be it trims or what have you.
Or something else...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20074 of 27145 Old 08-15-2015, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Do you use both (L and R) inputs? If so one side might have been pulled out or broken.
Any other switches/knobs bumped on the back of the sub?
Cat crawled into a port?
Could also be something in your AVR changed, be it trims or what have you.
Or something else...
Lol, no cat, so i can cross that off the list. Unless...

I am running LR. After speaking with Enrico, I believe this is the diagnosis. If the the other input fails it will drop off by 6 dB. Will test in the AM and report back.

Greatly appreciate the feedback.
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post #20075 of 27145 Old 08-15-2015, 09:03 PM
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That was my first guess as well, hopefully just a loose plug or bad cable.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20076 of 27145 Old 08-15-2015, 10:22 PM
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I think it's a bad cable but it could be a loose RCA jack as well. Either way he is using LFE so he only needs one LFE input. He was using both LFE inputs and that's why the signal dropped off by 6dB.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #20077 of 27145 Old 08-15-2015, 11:21 PM
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Pull one cable out, if no effect, that part of the cable is dead, pulling the other cable should kill the sound, just bump the sub volume from the receiver by 6db or add gain using the subs gain and you should be good. Using one or two cables does not change the max SPL that the sub can handle
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post #20078 of 27145 Old 08-16-2015, 08:48 AM
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DO NOT PULL CABLES WITH THE AMP ON!

Turn the sub off before mucking with the cables and let it bleed down a minute or so.

Lost too many components and speakers over the years doing things like that (usually by accident).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20079 of 27145 Old 08-16-2015, 08:37 PM
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forgot about that...power everything off before pulling cables off...

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
DO NOT PULL CABLES WITH THE AMP ON!

Turn the sub off before mucking with the cables and let it bleed down a minute or so.

Lost too many components and speakers over the years doing things like that (usually by accident).
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post #20080 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 12:27 PM
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Hey Guys,

i Transformers: Age of Extinction yesterday 5DB HOT and between 02h:22m:18s - 02h:22m:44s this is long tone that gets seriously loud. my
APC AV C10 Outlet Power Filter which is usually at 20% and jumps around 40% load but never holds it there spiked and held it at 80% load topping out at 100% load while at that scene, i was worried and curious so i felt my FV15HP and it was getting warm at the spots in the photo. i may seem to worry allot but this was a major purchase for me over $1400 so i do my best to protect my investment. i have a problem not knowing the limits of the subwoofer heat wise and the lack of detail manual on the limits and built in protection it offers. i am 100% sure this steams from me building PC's over the years and always knowing and monitoring the temp, voltage and amount other things, its a serious obsession.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP

Last edited by MrGrey; 08-18-2015 at 02:40 PM.
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post #20081 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Hey Guys,

i Transformers: Age of Extinction yesterday 5DB HOT and between 02h:22m:18s - 02h:22m:44s this is long tone that gets seriously loud. my
APC AV C10 Outlet Power Filter which is usually at 20% and jumps around 40% load but never holds it there spiked and held it at 80% load topping out at 100% load while at that scene, i was worried and curious so i felt my FV15HP and it was getting warm at the spots in the photo. i may seem to worry allot but this was a major purchase for me over $1400 and i have a problem not knowing the limits of the subwoofer heat wise and the lack of detail manual on the limits and built in protection it offers. i am sure 100% this steams from me building PC's over the years and always knowing and monitoring the temp, voltage and amount other things, its a serious obsession.
I've had demo sessions range from one hour to two hours of straight 5 star bass movie scenes and mine can get pretty damn hot. This is with constant hard hitting bass not at reference, but definitely loud. I wouldn't worry about your amplifier simply being warm. Have you seen the capacitors Brian uses in the amplifiers? They consist of very high quality components.
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Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #20082 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
I've had demo sessions range from one hour to two hours of straight 5 star bass movie scenes and mine can get pretty damn hot. This is with constant hard hitting bass not at reference, but definitely loud. I wouldn't worry about your amplifier simply being warm. Have you seen the capacitors Brian uses in the amplifiers? They consist of very high quality components.
Wow that's pretty intense, i didn't know it can withstand such beating without falling apart or damaging the sub. heat is always a problem, i reading on the web that the voice coil does have a limit and maybe the first to go when thing get extremely hot. is there protection against that or is it true i don't know for sure. i have never seen inside one yet, i did a lazy search early today but ill do a better one now to check out whats inside this thing.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #20083 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 01:41 PM
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Wow that's pretty intense, i didn't know it can withstand such beating without falling apart or damaging the sub. heat is always a problem, i reading on the web that the voice coil does have a limit and maybe the first to go when thing get extremely hot. is there protection against that or is it true i don't know for sure. i have never seen inside one yet, i did a lazy search early today but ill do a better one now to check out whats inside this thing.
Of course everything has it's limits. Usually when they get quite hot like that after an extended listening session I back off. Just use good judgement when things really heat up and you will be just fine.

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #20084 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 02:18 PM
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Of course everything has it's limits. Usually when they get quite hot like that after an extended listening session I back off. Just use good judgement when things really heat up and you will be just fine.
Very true, and i don't see myself playing movies how hours on end. thanks allot for the help.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #20085 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 04:25 PM
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All our subwoofers have thermal protection circuit. If the amp gets too hot the thermal circuit goes off and the subwoofer shut OFF. Just wait until the amp cool down and turn it ON again.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet + Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #20086 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dc6284 View Post
Anyone else's have problems with wife/Gf when it comes to down to size.... I mean she's making return my Fv15hp which I love... I mean come on it makes me happy.The funny thing is she was upset when she found out how much it cost. But now that she likes her music etc. She's now going to let me almost spend twice what I paid. Just so they blend better in her decor. I thought I was a man. But guess I'm a mouse. Just saying...
For a WAF augmentation, go with the piano gloss. They are beautiful.
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post #20087 of 27145 Old 08-18-2015, 11:17 PM
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For a WAF augmentation, go with the piano gloss. They are beautiful.
fingerprint magnet too
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post #20088 of 27145 Old 08-19-2015, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Hey Guys,

I watched Transformers: Age of Extinction yesterday 5DB HOT and between 02h:22m:18s - 02h:22m:44s this is long tone that gets seriously loud. my APC AV C10 Outlet Power Filter which is usually at 20% and jumps around 40% load but never holds it there spiked and held it at 80% load topping out at 100% load while at that scene, i was worried and curious so i felt my FV15HP and it was getting warm at the spots in the photo. i may seem to worry allot but this was a major purchase for me over $1400 so i do my best to protect my investment. i have a problem not knowing the limits of the subwoofer heat wise and the lack of detail manual on the limits and built in protection it offers. i am 100% sure this steams from me building PC's over the years and always knowing and monitoring the temp, voltage and amount other things, its a serious obsession.

It is ok for the amp to be warm, in particular with our regular size amp with large heat sink fins. The heat is solely from output transistors in the power amp module. They are mounted directly to the heat sink plate which is one piece aluminum construction. This design allows the max heat transfer into the heat sink. Some other amplifiers hide the heat by mounting the transistors on a smaller heat sink. That heat sink may not be mounted to the plate and therefore one will not know the actual transistor temperature. In addition, all of our amplifiers in FV15HP/F15HP/E15HP/F12/F12G are burnt-in with 30% duty cycle for one hour in our office.


Transistor is less complex than a CPU. The newer CPUs now contain billions of transistors, implementing millions of logic gates and memory cells. The temperature impact to CPU is that all transistors becomes slower after CPU temperature rises. That affects the "timing" of the logic gates and memory cells and the result is that CPU cannot run at high Ghz or clock rate. That is for what we call setup time violation. The worst one is the hold time violation which makes the CPU malfunction at any clock rate. The CPU vendors put in some margin to allow certain amount of temperature rise, or they will have too many returns. The transistors on the other hand are not that complicated. They only implement one function and there is no so-called setup/hold time requirement.
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post #20089 of 27145 Old 08-19-2015, 12:34 PM
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Most commercial components are rated to 70 degC (158 degF). That is pretty durn hot to touch but OK for the electronics. Industrial rating is 85 degC (185 degF). Not sure what the Rythmik amplifiers are rated, didn't see a sticker and don't want to ask (Brian should be working on my order not online ), but if it is running so hot you can't touch it you might want to look at airflow around the heatsink. Otherwise, play on. As Enrico said, thermal protection will cut in if you are really overheating.

IME the second-biggest speaker eater is the unexpectedly large "whack" of an explosion or from somebody bumping up the volume, pulling a cable from a live amp, or some other mistake.

The biggest speaker eater is alcohol, which leads to insane volumes, which leads in turn to blown speakers and hangovers.

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20090 of 27145 Old 08-19-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The biggest speaker eater is alcohol, which leads to insane volumes, which leads in turn to blown speakers and hangovers.

FWIWFM - Don
Guilty although not insane volumes, but definitely a hair louder.

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #20091 of 27145 Old 08-19-2015, 12:59 PM
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Waf

Guys, here is the secret that has worked for me for the last 30 years.

Determine what you really need and then oversize it ie. initially present the worst case scenario.
Example, you need a pair of F12's for your new setup based on realistic expectations and room size.
Mockup a pair of F25 out of cardboard and wait for the expected "OH my G-D. are you totally insane, there is no way on earth .....".
Assume your best tail between the legs attitude and install the smaller F15 mockup's in your room.
Now if you are really, really lucky you get the "Well ... maybe .......".
If not, THAT's when you bring out a nice bottle of wine and swap in the pair of F12 mockups that you originally envisioned. That normally gets the you the " Well ... OK...".

Shawn ... PS. Do not tell any better half's this trick.
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post #20092 of 27145 Old 08-19-2015, 04:07 PM
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I once got an advice, if you want a dog, ask your dad for a horse, then settle for a dog...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian View Post
Guys, here is the secret that has worked for me for the last 30 years.

Determine what you really need and then oversize it ie. initially present the worst case scenario.
Example, you need a pair of F12's for your new setup based on realistic expectations and room size.
Mockup a pair of F25 out of cardboard and wait for the expected "OH my G-D. are you totally insane, there is no way on earth .....".
Assume your best tail between the legs attitude and install the smaller F15 mockup's in your room.
Now if you are really, really lucky you get the "Well ... maybe .......".
If not, THAT's when you bring out a nice bottle of wine and swap in the pair of F12 mockups that you originally envisioned. That normally gets the you the " Well ... OK...".

Shawn ... PS. Do not tell any better half's this trick.
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post #20093 of 27145 Old 08-20-2015, 09:48 AM
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I once got an advice, if you want a dog, ask your dad for a horse, then settle for a dog...
And what do you do if he says "yes" to the horse?

My father once told me that he'd buy me any car I wanted. All I had to do was give him the money first.
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post #20094 of 27145 Old 08-20-2015, 12:46 PM
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Don, what did you order? L22?
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post #20095 of 27145 Old 08-20-2015, 02:03 PM
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Don, what did you order? L22?
Nah I'm pretty sure he ordered two more F12's.

Display - LG 65EF9500
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post #20096 of 27145 Old 08-20-2015, 03:09 PM
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Pair of F12's, yes, to match what I already have. Except in black oak since regular oak is no longer available. I went back and forth a bit but decided to stick with the F12's. Enrico and Brian both seem to think I'd appreciate the F12's slightly better sound (shhh, don't tell them I've ears of clay! ) plus size- and feature-wise the F12's are perfect for me. I do not need output; with four subs in a little room I have plenty. They are for frequency response. Sticking with Rythmik was a no-brainer; I spent a lot of time researching and listening before getting the first pair (though couldn't hear the F12's until after I got them), and have not seen anything that makes me want to change. There are plenty of good subs to choose from, but performance, features and awesome technical support makes them an easy call. Plus Brian and I have similar day jobs so when I call we can talk about subs and commiserate about work...

I am going to switch from my present hybrid speaker scheme (Magnepan + sub for main L/R, after an active crossover) to a more traditional "mono" sub scheme with all four subs run off a single subwoofer output. I cannot place subs where I'd like due to features in the room (like a door and couch that's too wide) so am hoping I can finally tame a couple of room modes with a pair on the back wall working with the pair up front. I am hoping the phase control gives me enough range to dial them in; do not have nor wish to get a miniDSP right now. Dirac Live does not properly combine sub response so they will work together (I hope!) as a mono mini-swarm and Dirac will handle them as a group after I get the cluster tweaked..

I ordered XLR2 amps on both. My new pre/pro (Emotiva XMC-1) has XLR and RCA outputs so I am hoping I can run the front pair off the RCA output and back pair (master/slave) off the XLR. We'll see. I have a couple of 50' XLR cables and do not want to deal with ground loops since they'll be on a completely different circuit. I was not thinking of more gear in the rear; I have three 20 A lines in front, but one 15 A circuit serves the rest of the room. The XLR amps also have a trigger input, hallelujah! I made space for the subs and have all the cables in-house or on order. The subs were in stock so I am crossing my fingers they get here next week when I have a couple of days off.

These and the XMC-1 are my first major additions since I installed this system seven years ago, looking forward to getting it all working! Still have to get my Oppo repaired, but first things first.
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20097 of 27145 Old 08-20-2015, 05:02 PM
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^^ super nice - 4 F12's. I would like to see your FR with 2 and then 4 subs please. I wish I have room for 4 subs. I would take 4 F15's over my dual FV15's, not for output but for an even FR across my room before Eq.
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post #20098 of 27145 Old 08-20-2015, 05:42 PM
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Hope to have just that, stay tuned!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Don, at what Hz are you going to x/o from the Maggies to the four F12's? If going mono with all four subs works to your liking, you could also try locating them for maximum anti-room mode effectiveness as suggested by sdurani (refer to the F. Toole diagram a couple of pages back), if your room layout allows it. I know you have found sub locations to be audible when crossed-over at either too high a frequency or with too shallow a filter slope. Of course, with the XLR2 amps (my personal favorite of the Rythmik amps---very versatile) you can go with 24dB/octave, so localization shouldn't be a problem for you. How will you able to use the XLR2's Master/Slave capability of your new pair with your older PEQ amps? Or will you be doing Master/Slave with the new pair only?
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post #20100 of 27145 Old 08-20-2015, 09:28 PM
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I have been using 60 Hz "forever" but I am planning a little higher, probably 70 ~ 80 Hz. The Maggies go to 35 Hz but their distortion gets pretty bad when driven loudly at LF. As for me, decades ago when I participated in various studies I could localize to 60 Hz or so, but I have no idea if that changes over time or if in my current room (smaller than most I have had) it would be as noticeable. I have some room issues between 50 and 60 Hz (couple of closely spaced modes) so to take advantage of the extra subs I need to cover up to 60 Hz.

I would love to follow the guidance of Toole (et. al.) but unfortunately have physical constraints. There's a door on one side, and on the other I need the walkway, so there's not enough room to place the sub at the midpoints. I can pull the front subs out a little so they'll be about 1/4 of the way into the room. The rear subs are going to have to sit against the back wall. I'll let Dirac handle the little swarm as a (mono) group so all I really need to do is to get the delays reasonable for the front and rear pair. The subs in each pair will be symmetric, or pretty closely so, so I can treat them as pairs. Wavelengths are multiple feet so a few inches shouldn't matter. The front subs will be closer to the MLP than the rears so I will delay the fronts to match the rears. I may not need to do anything to the rear speakers (fingers crossed).

The XMC-1 provides 12 or 24 dB/octave slope so I will use its crossover (at 24 dB/octave). That allows me to get rid of my active crossover (and a few cables, which I just bought to go balanced all the way, natch). However, to get phase control, IIRC I'll have to enable the crossovers in the subs and set them to their highest frequency (hopefully out of the way).

I need to do a little more research, but AFAIK I'll have to use just one of the sub outputs to get Dirac to properly EQ them. Knowledgeable folk in the XMC-1 and miniDSP threads say Dirac Live does not properly combine the response of multiple subs when it applies correction. Their advice is to run them as a mono set and adjust delay/phase per sub (or pair) myself. Many use a miniDSP but I plan to use the phase control on the subs. The XMC-1 has RCA and XLR outputs, and the manual says both are active at all times, so I should be good. I will use a Y off the RCA output to feed my current (front, PEQ2) subs. The XMC-1's XLR output will drive one rear speaker, with the second rear slaved off the first.

I don't think the XLR2 amp was an option when I got my first subs; Brian asked users several years ago and that was one of the features requested on the new amps. I think my current F12's are about six or seven years old; does not seem that long ago! Rythmik has been in business since 2002, incorporated in 2005, longer than a good many companies these days. I think I got my first pair when the company was still pretty young (and I like that it still has that "young" feel).

I could leave the setup as-is, with the fronts "large" and subs after my active crossover, but I am not sure room correction would work for cancelling modes unless I used "plus" (Emotiva calls it "Enhanced Bass"). I don't want to try that rabbit hole.

Should be quite the adventure... - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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