Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 670 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20071 of 20214 Old 08-13-2015, 09:15 PM
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My room is completely dead. All walls, ceiling covered plus carpet over concrete on the floor. The room is just too stinkin' live without them, and there are some doubled room modes that I tried to knock down a little bit (still need to add those back subs if and when). In all my decades my current media room is one of the smallest and yet best-isolated and treated rooms I have ever had. It would be perfect at twice the size (and with fewer panels).

I know about the LEDE debate and such; you describe the concept and evolution quite well. I have used that on and off through the years. I think it does make sense for dipoles because comb filtering from the rear wave is a real PITA. Some seem less sensitive to it, but it drives me nuts (a short drive ) when I move my head an inch and the sound changes by a mile, or when an instrument plays a scale and wanders around the sound stage when I know it is fixed in position... LEDE makes less sense to me for conventional speakers, and as you imply what really matters is where the reflections are in relation to the listening position. There is no one size fits all solution...

I would prefer a mix of absorbers and diffusers (and a much bigger room, natch) but couldn't afford the diffusion panels and didn't have time/interest to build them (I did get kits for the absorbers so saved a bit, but also had my sons to help at that time). At some point I'd like to add some diffusion but who knows. I don't mind the deadness, and my speakers are pretty big and pretty close, so you really do not notice the lack of reflections. The few people that have heard the system have liked it and not felt it too dead, but in a bigger room it would be more noticeable. Of course, in a bigger room I would not need so much treatment -- it is an echo chamber without the panels. With all the panels it is very dead, but imaging is pin-point, the sweet spot spans the couch, and in a small space those big panels give all the "space" you can get out of the recording. It is very near-field'ish if you are familiar with that sound. Since I do have some studio and mastering work in my past (both sides of the booth) it does not bother me to have a dead space.

Planar dipoles don't really have a first reflection problem; they do not radiate much to the side (or top/bottom) until down in the lower bass region.

ASC is a company I should have looked for when I treated my room, and that still may be a good option. I have known about them, and used their products, for ages but honestly just did not remember them and got caught up in absorbing panels when I built the room. A lot of panels you can also get with membranes that reflect higher frequencies while absorbing the lower. In my current room that made it too live and I pulled the membranes off. The big advantage ASC's Tube Traps offer is tunability; you can buy different sizes and/or adjust them to target those nasty room modes and major boundary conditions. A clever concept with great execution. My bad for not thinking of them first; senility, or just too long since I had my 'real" system set up (it was in storage for about ten years, though I had a number of good but lesser systems during that time).

I used to make various diffusors that were just open lattices 4" or 6" deep using plywood or pine/oak stock 1/4" to 3/4" thick. The lattices were patterned to provide broadband HF mid and HF diffusion, picture an irregularly-shaped shadow box, and were mounted over 4" - 12" absorption panels so HF's were diffused and LF's absorbed. That may be what I end up doing again, someday...
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post #20072 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 01:41 AM
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Hey guys I'm a little late to the game on this one, I was really active on here (this thread) two years ago and then I stopped posting after I finally got my home theater figured out, kinda lame I know!
I went with the Ascend Audio 5.2 package, with the .2 be two Rythmik FV15hp's. They got me a good deal since Ascend sells Rythmik products and I'm military.
ANYways there isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said about these subs. The only negative I have found is the chuffing that occurs on especially low notes/high volume bass drops. It comes with a squeaky sound too as if air is coming out of the seams which freaks me out but I don't think that is the case. It's just kind of distracting and disappointing when you spend thousands of dollars and the most impressive bass scenes are interrupted by chuffing. I never even play at reference volume (usually -15 or lower). I do have one port plugged on each sub so that might contribute to more chuffing. My settings are very conservative, pretty much exactly how the instructions tell you to set them. I believe the rumble filter is on... I'm not sure because I'm in Afghanistan again, but everything else is set for the lowest Hz bass (theater settings vs. music).
That being said, I have a HUGE living room that's open to an entry way behind me and the kitchen on the other side of the room, and even a hallway on top of that. My floor plan is terrible for home theater because the entire house besides the bedrooms is open. I think the living room/entry way alone is 35 ft by 14 with 10ft ceilings. Take all of that crappiness into consideration when I say I can never turn these puppies up to their potential. When I move next year I'm getting a house with no neighbors, because these things rattle dishware 2 houses over. My fondest memory among all the bass scenes like World War Z grenade, Black Hawk Down 'irene', Cloverfield etc... HAS to be Flight of the Phoenix plane crash scene. There is a part when the fuselage is spinning where the bass just hit 20-25Hz and just sustains over like 15 seconds where my jaw dropped. It's hard to impress me, and this did. All movies, especially bass-centric ones are a LOT of fun to watch with these subs... but that scene just vibrates your entire body inside and out and it doesn't stop, and the subs never quit or fade. It felt like I was on a plane going down in a storm. I have a nice motorcycle and I live in California where there is no end to the beautiful places to ride, but all I can think about is getting home from this deployment and watching my favorite movies again.
Music is great too, but because it has more sustained bass (usually) than movies it annoys the neighbors even more, so I don't generally crank the rap/dubstep and whatnot- but it's safe to say these subs are musical if you want them to be. I'm pretty sure it's recommended to change up the settings to play music like putting the rumble filter on high and some other stuff, but I never have. I wouldn't describe the subs as 'punchy' when there is a kick drum but I suppose that's because I don't change the settings like I'm supposed to. However, long drawn out bass notes from a bass guitar, sampler (rap), and the like sound natural and awesome. I still have yet to get a pipe organ CD with the 16Hz note to try out but I think I will this time around just to see what it's like. Music is definitely carried out more by the speakers, which are amazing also, but I won't speak to those on this thread unless you want to PM me or something.
Speaking of which, let me know if you have any questions or suggestions for me. No I have not done REW or the sweet spot test (I know I suck) but I have one sub by the entertainment center and one behind my couch and I don't think I would say there are any nulls because I'm always surrounded by sweet succulent bass with these top notch subs. I unfortunately have to move to NM next year so I'm not going to do any sound deadening or REW testing until I get settled in the new place.
TLDR; if you're debating these subs, don't second guess...get one or two (or four). If I had one wish it would be that they went to 10Hz without chuffing, but physics is a thing.
Great job rythmik.
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post #20073 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 08:08 AM
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@usaforce87

Welcome back! I'm wondering if your FV''s are not placed in optimal spots, but without measuring this is just speculation on my part. I have mine set to mid-dampening, one port plugged, rumble filter engaged, Dyn EQ off, and 6db's of boost applied to both subs. So far I've only experienced chuffing on one scene and that's the opening sequence of Edge of Tomorrow on the last sweep it digs down to 10hz. Maybe when you get back and settled into your new place circle back around here and we can make sure you are getting the most out of your subs. Be careful out there.
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post #20074 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 08:16 AM
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Thanks man! Yeah I definitely did a 'set it and forget it' approach and I should do some more trial and error soon. I do want to make it clear though that the chuffing is NOT a daily or common occurrence, but happens more often than it should it seems. I'll be sure to get more active on here when I get back and make some updates.
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post #20075 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post
Thanks man! Yeah I definitely did a 'set it and forget it' approach and I should do some more trial and error soon. I do want to make it clear though that the chuffing is NOT a daily or common occurrence, but happens more often than it should it seems. I'll be sure to get more active on here when I get back and make some updates.
No problem! At -15 volumes you shouldn't be running into chuffing, so something is for sure up. Anyhow I'm sure we can figure it out.

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post #20076 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 03:53 PM
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Question

Hey guys, I have an FV15HP. The other day I noticed the sub was playing at half the volume it used to. No settings were adjusted prior to this (nothing touched for past 5 months or so). Tried unplugging everything, but did not make a difference. Volume is set at from approx 50% from setup. If I turn to 75%, it sounds similar to before. Any idea what may have caused this?
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post #20077 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 05:55 PM
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Anyone else's have problems with wife/Gf when it comes to down to size.... I mean she's making return my Fv15hp which I love... I mean come on it makes me happy.The funny thing is she was upset when she found out how much it cost. But now that she likes her music etc. She's now going to let me almost spend twice what I paid. Just so they blend better in her decor. I thought I was a man. But guess I'm a mouse. Just saying...
She only gets the say so if you allow her to. Say no. Do you approve of every pocketbook, candle, or decoration she buys? Does she return them if you tell her to, or not spend a bunch of money on her hair, or nails, or shoes, or whatever? Compromise is important but it works both ways. Take out your man card and use it.
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post #20078 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 07:19 PM
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Hey guys, I have an FV15HP. The other day I noticed the sub was playing at half the volume it used to. No settings were adjusted prior to this (nothing touched for past 5 months or so). Tried unplugging everything, but did not make a difference. Volume is set at from approx 50% from setup. If I turn to 75%, it sounds similar to before. Any idea what may have caused this?
Do you use both (L and R) inputs? If so one side might have been pulled out or broken.
Any other switches/knobs bumped on the back of the sub?
Cat crawled into a port?
Could also be something in your AVR changed, be it trims or what have you.
Or something else...

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post #20079 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 07:40 PM
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Do you use both (L and R) inputs? If so one side might have been pulled out or broken.
Any other switches/knobs bumped on the back of the sub?
Cat crawled into a port?
Could also be something in your AVR changed, be it trims or what have you.
Or something else...
Lol, no cat, so i can cross that off the list. Unless...

I am running LR. After speaking with Enrico, I believe this is the diagnosis. If the the other input fails it will drop off by 6 dB. Will test in the AM and report back.

Greatly appreciate the feedback.
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post #20080 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 08:03 PM
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That was my first guess as well, hopefully just a loose plug or bad cable.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20081 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 09:22 PM
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I think it's a bad cable but it could be a loose RCA jack as well. Either way he is using LFE so he only needs one LFE input. He was using both LFE inputs and that's why the signal dropped off by 6dB.

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
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post #20082 of 20214 Old 08-15-2015, 10:21 PM
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Pull one cable out, if no effect, that part of the cable is dead, pulling the other cable should kill the sound, just bump the sub volume from the receiver by 6db or add gain using the subs gain and you should be good. Using one or two cables does not change the max SPL that the sub can handle
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post #20083 of 20214 Old 08-16-2015, 07:48 AM
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DO NOT PULL CABLES WITH THE AMP ON!

Turn the sub off before mucking with the cables and let it bleed down a minute or so.

Lost too many components and speakers over the years doing things like that (usually by accident).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20084 of 20214 Old 08-16-2015, 07:37 PM
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forgot about that...power everything off before pulling cables off...

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
DO NOT PULL CABLES WITH THE AMP ON!

Turn the sub off before mucking with the cables and let it bleed down a minute or so.

Lost too many components and speakers over the years doing things like that (usually by accident).
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post #20085 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 11:27 AM
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Hey Guys,

i Transformers: Age of Extinction yesterday 5DB HOT and between 02h:22m:18s - 02h:22m:44s this is long tone that gets seriously loud. my
APC AV C10 Outlet Power Filter which is usually at 20% and jumps around 40% load but never holds it there spiked and held it at 80% load topping out at 100% load while at that scene, i was worried and curious so i felt my FV15HP and it was getting warm at the spots in the photo. i may seem to worry allot but this was a major purchase for me over $1400 so i do my best to protect my investment. i have a problem not knowing the limits of the subwoofer heat wise and the lack of detail manual on the limits and built in protection it offers. i am 100% sure this steams from me building PC's over the years and always knowing and monitoring the temp, voltage and amount other things, its a serious obsession.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Front - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP

Last edited by MrGrey; 08-18-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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post #20086 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 11:41 AM
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Hey Guys,

i Transformers: Age of Extinction yesterday 5DB HOT and between 02h:22m:18s - 02h:22m:44s this is long tone that gets seriously loud. my
APC AV C10 Outlet Power Filter which is usually at 20% and jumps around 40% load but never holds it there spiked and held it at 80% load topping out at 100% load while at that scene, i was worried and curious so i felt my FV15HP and it was getting warm at the spots in the photo. i may seem to worry allot but this was a major purchase for me over $1400 and i have a problem not knowing the limits of the subwoofer heat wise and the lack of detail manual on the limits and built in protection it offers. i am sure 100% this steams from me building PC's over the years and always knowing and monitoring the temp, voltage and amount other things, its a serious obsession.
I've had demo sessions range from one hour to two hours of straight 5 star bass movie scenes and mine can get pretty damn hot. This is with constant hard hitting bass not at reference, but definitely loud. I wouldn't worry about your amplifier simply being warm. Have you seen the capacitors Brian uses in the amplifiers? They consist of very high quality components.
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post #20087 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 12:21 PM
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I've had demo sessions range from one hour to two hours of straight 5 star bass movie scenes and mine can get pretty damn hot. This is with constant hard hitting bass not at reference, but definitely loud. I wouldn't worry about your amplifier simply being warm. Have you seen the capacitors Brian uses in the amplifiers? They consist of very high quality components.
Wow that's pretty intense, i didn't know it can withstand such beating without falling apart or damaging the sub. heat is always a problem, i reading on the web that the voice coil does have a limit and maybe the first to go when thing get extremely hot. is there protection against that or is it true i don't know for sure. i have never seen inside one yet, i did a lazy search early today but ill do a better one now to check out whats inside this thing.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Front - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
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Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #20088 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 12:41 PM
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Wow that's pretty intense, i didn't know it can withstand such beating without falling apart or damaging the sub. heat is always a problem, i reading on the web that the voice coil does have a limit and maybe the first to go when thing get extremely hot. is there protection against that or is it true i don't know for sure. i have never seen inside one yet, i did a lazy search early today but ill do a better one now to check out whats inside this thing.
Of course everything has it's limits. Usually when they get quite hot like that after an extended listening session I back off. Just use good judgement when things really heat up and you will be just fine.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
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post #20089 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 01:18 PM
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Of course everything has it's limits. Usually when they get quite hot like that after an extended listening session I back off. Just use good judgement when things really heat up and you will be just fine.
Very true, and i don't see myself playing movies how hours on end. thanks allot for the help.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
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post #20090 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 03:25 PM
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All our subwoofers have thermal protection circuit. If the amp gets too hot the thermal circuit goes off and the subwoofer shut OFF. Just wait until the amp cool down and turn it ON again.
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post #20091 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 03:42 PM
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Anyone else's have problems with wife/Gf when it comes to down to size.... I mean she's making return my Fv15hp which I love... I mean come on it makes me happy.The funny thing is she was upset when she found out how much it cost. But now that she likes her music etc. She's now going to let me almost spend twice what I paid. Just so they blend better in her decor. I thought I was a man. But guess I'm a mouse. Just saying...
For a WAF augmentation, go with the piano gloss. They are beautiful.
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post #20092 of 20214 Old 08-18-2015, 10:17 PM
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For a WAF augmentation, go with the piano gloss. They are beautiful.
fingerprint magnet too
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post #20093 of 20214 Old 08-19-2015, 05:42 AM
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Hey Guys,

I watched Transformers: Age of Extinction yesterday 5DB HOT and between 02h:22m:18s - 02h:22m:44s this is long tone that gets seriously loud. my APC AV C10 Outlet Power Filter which is usually at 20% and jumps around 40% load but never holds it there spiked and held it at 80% load topping out at 100% load while at that scene, i was worried and curious so i felt my FV15HP and it was getting warm at the spots in the photo. i may seem to worry allot but this was a major purchase for me over $1400 so i do my best to protect my investment. i have a problem not knowing the limits of the subwoofer heat wise and the lack of detail manual on the limits and built in protection it offers. i am 100% sure this steams from me building PC's over the years and always knowing and monitoring the temp, voltage and amount other things, its a serious obsession.

It is ok for the amp to be warm, in particular with our regular size amp with large heat sink fins. The heat is solely from output transistors in the power amp module. They are mounted directly to the heat sink plate which is one piece aluminum construction. This design allows the max heat transfer into the heat sink. Some other amplifiers hide the heat by mounting the transistors on a smaller heat sink. That heat sink may not be mounted to the plate and therefore one will not know the actual transistor temperature. In addition, all of our amplifiers in FV15HP/F15HP/E15HP/F12/F12G are burnt-in with 30% duty cycle for one hour in our office.


Transistor is less complex than a CPU. The newer CPUs now contain billions of transistors, implementing millions of logic gates and memory cells. The temperature impact to CPU is that all transistors becomes slower after CPU temperature rises. That affects the "timing" of the logic gates and memory cells and the result is that CPU cannot run at high Ghz or clock rate. That is for what we call setup time violation. The worst one is the hold time violation which makes the CPU malfunction at any clock rate. The CPU vendors put in some margin to allow certain amount of temperature rise, or they will have too many returns. The transistors on the other hand are not that complicated. They only implement one function and there is no so-called setup/hold time requirement.
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post #20094 of 20214 Old 08-19-2015, 11:34 AM
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Most commercial components are rated to 70 degC (158 degF). That is pretty durn hot to touch but OK for the electronics. Industrial rating is 85 degC (185 degF). Not sure what the Rythmik amplifiers are rated, didn't see a sticker and don't want to ask (Brian should be working on my order not online ), but if it is running so hot you can't touch it you might want to look at airflow around the heatsink. Otherwise, play on. As Enrico said, thermal protection will cut in if you are really overheating.

IME the second-biggest speaker eater is the unexpectedly large "whack" of an explosion or from somebody bumping up the volume, pulling a cable from a live amp, or some other mistake.

The biggest speaker eater is alcohol, which leads to insane volumes, which leads in turn to blown speakers and hangovers.

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20095 of 20214 Old 08-19-2015, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The biggest speaker eater is alcohol, which leads to insane volumes, which leads in turn to blown speakers and hangovers.

FWIWFM - Don
Guilty although not insane volumes, but definitely a hair louder.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #20096 of 20214 Old 08-19-2015, 11:59 AM
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Waf

Guys, here is the secret that has worked for me for the last 30 years.

Determine what you really need and then oversize it ie. initially present the worst case scenario.
Example, you need a pair of F12's for your new setup based on realistic expectations and room size.
Mockup a pair of F25 out of cardboard and wait for the expected "OH my G-D. are you totally insane, there is no way on earth .....".
Assume your best tail between the legs attitude and install the smaller F15 mockup's in your room.
Now if you are really, really lucky you get the "Well ... maybe .......".
If not, THAT's when you bring out a nice bottle of wine and swap in the pair of F12 mockups that you originally envisioned. That normally gets the you the " Well ... OK...".

Shawn ... PS. Do not tell any better half's this trick.
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Last edited by MarvinTheMartian; 08-19-2015 at 12:03 PM.
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post #20097 of 20214 Old 08-19-2015, 03:07 PM
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I once got an advice, if you want a dog, ask your dad for a horse, then settle for a dog...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinTheMartian View Post
Guys, here is the secret that has worked for me for the last 30 years.

Determine what you really need and then oversize it ie. initially present the worst case scenario.
Example, you need a pair of F12's for your new setup based on realistic expectations and room size.
Mockup a pair of F25 out of cardboard and wait for the expected "OH my G-D. are you totally insane, there is no way on earth .....".
Assume your best tail between the legs attitude and install the smaller F15 mockup's in your room.
Now if you are really, really lucky you get the "Well ... maybe .......".
If not, THAT's when you bring out a nice bottle of wine and swap in the pair of F12 mockups that you originally envisioned. That normally gets the you the " Well ... OK...".

Shawn ... PS. Do not tell any better half's this trick.
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post #20098 of 20214 Old 08-20-2015, 08:48 AM
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I once got an advice, if you want a dog, ask your dad for a horse, then settle for a dog...
And what do you do if he says "yes" to the horse?

My father once told me that he'd buy me any car I wanted. All I had to do was give him the money first.
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post #20099 of 20214 Old 08-20-2015, 11:46 AM
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Don, what did you order? L22?
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post #20100 of 20214 Old 08-20-2015, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Don, what did you order? L22?
Nah I'm pretty sure he ordered two more F12's.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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