Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 673 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20161 of 20179 Old 08-26-2015, 11:51 AM
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With one L12 I have measured 96-98dB in room at 20hz just before the limiting circuit kicks in.

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post #20162 of 20179 Old 08-26-2015, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Hi Enrico,

First congrats on the wedding! Or "weeding", Freudian slip? Three daughters, no wonder you are working 24/7!

The XMC-1, like most AVRs and pre/pros (every one I have seen), is 12 V so that's OK. Never personally seen a negative voltage trigger output. I have an ET-3 but was able to dump it when I went to the XMC-1 since it has more trigger outputs. I thought of that (great minds and all that) but was checking to see what I could get away with; I can use it if needed. I am using an X10 system to power on my current subs (no trigger input on the PEQ2 amps) but can avoid yet more power switches if I can use the trigger inputs. Besides, I bought trigger extension cables, but not more X10 power switches, and am both cheap and lazy!

FYI, 200 mA is very high; several AVRs I looked at a while back were limited to 50 mA. I do not know if there is an industry standard for the trigger circuits.

Thanks! - Don
Yes, 200mA is a bit exaggerated but I wanted to be on the safe side!! My Emotiva XPA-3 12V trigger out is rated up to 100mA and my XPA-200 is rated up to 50mA. I think is safe to assume that each of the four the XMC-1 12V trigger outs are 50mA?

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post #20163 of 20179 Old 08-26-2015, 01:27 PM
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Btw, I did ask Brian about the 12V trigger current draw but still waiting for his response. He is in China right now so it may take a little bit more than normal for him to respond via email.

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post #20164 of 20179 Old 08-26-2015, 01:37 PM
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I have rarely seen an output rated below 50 mA so I would guess that is safe. I have not looked and am not sure what if any standard defines trigger outputs; Brian might know, When I last looked it seemed a lot of AVRs did not list their trigger output capability. The XMC-1 manual and spec list online do not say. The majority of the ones I found were 100 mA with one (a Denon) only 25 or 50 mA.

I was mainly asking to see if I could parallel two outputs without sticking my ET-3 back in the system. If the trigger circuit goes into a transistor or op-amp buffer I'd expect very low current draw. If there is a pull-up or it goes straight into a relay then I'd expect higher current. I don't know what trigger inputs (or outputs) look like. I have a couple of service manuals at home, might have to investigate a bit.

Not in a big rush, no worries. For now I can stick the ET-3 back in, or maybe just gen up something to measure it since I am curious.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20165 of 20179 Old 08-26-2015, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I have rarely seen an output rated below 50 mA so I would guess that is safe. I have not looked and am not sure what if any standard defines trigger outputs; Brian might know, When I last looked it seemed a lot of AVRs did not list their trigger output capability. The XMC-1 manual and spec list online do not say. The majority of the ones I found were 100 mA with one (a Denon) only 25 or 50 mA.

I was mainly asking to see if I could parallel two outputs without sticking my ET-3 back in the system. If the trigger circuit goes into a transistor or op-amp buffer I'd expect very low current draw. If there is a pull-up or it goes straight into a relay then I'd expect higher current. I don't know what trigger inputs (or outputs) look like. I have a couple of service manuals at home, might have to investigate a bit.

Not in a big rush, no worries. For now I can stick the ET-3 back in, or maybe just gen up something to measure it since I am curious.
OK so definitely I was a bit off. The current draw of the XLR2/XLR3 amp 12V trigger input is only 4mA I think you are totally safe splitting the trigger out on your XMC-1

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post #20166 of 20179 Old 08-26-2015, 08:15 PM
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Awesome, thanks Enrico, and please thank Brian for me (and safe travels)!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #20167 of 20179 Old Yesterday, 05:00 AM
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How does the F15 compare to a higher end sub like the JL 13 or something of that price range?
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post #20168 of 20179 Old Yesterday, 06:31 AM
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I compared to Velodyne, Paradigm, ML, B&W, and a few others I have forgotten that were mostly in the $3k to $5k (retail) range. To my ears Rythmik is "higher-end". To be fair, it did not sound significantly better than the much more expensive subs, and some of them had higher output with lower distortion despite the servo, but by and large my Rythmik equaled or bettered the pricey subs for sound quality. Essentially I could pay $1k to $1.5k with Rythmik, or get similar performance for $3k to $5k from a traditional brand.

I do not really remember JL but IIRC it was a great sub. I did not have much time to listen to one and never in my system (nor many of the others). The one I was looking at was competitive but still about 2x Rythmik. Some (perhaps many) of the $1k to $2k subs I found to exhibit excessive "ringing" that muddied the sound so I had to bump my price range to find one that I felt would integrate well with my planar speakers. Then I found Rythmik -- I bought a pair of F12's for less than I had (reluctantly) planned to spend on a single sub at a local store.

IME/IMO, YMMV, etc. - Don
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post #20169 of 20179 Old Yesterday, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Anyone got/heard a Rythmik L12? Is its output really has high as implied?

Per the Rythmik website subwoofer summary page, http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html the L12, at 20 Hz max SPL, would be 1dB below the F12 which would be 9.5 dB below the VF15HP, which means the L12 would be 10.5dB below the FV15HP.

Per Databass, http://www.data-bass.com/systems the FV15HP produces 108.1 to 108.3 max 2 meter SPL at 20Hz in 2 and 1 port modes.

That would imply the L12 is around 97.5 dB at 20Hz.

For comparison, per Audioholics quoting a third party test, the SVS SB-2000 puts out 92.1 dB at 20 Hz and per Databass, the PSA XS-15SE is at 97.6 dB at 20 Hz and the SVS SB-13 Ultra is 96.5

That means the L12 would have the output of two SB-2000s, which has almost twice as powerful amplifier (500 WRMS on the SB-2000 vs 300 WRMS on the L12)
I will not read it like that. L12 should be comparable to SB-2000 with 1db or so difference at most. The reason Audioholic numbers are different from those of Data-bass is because the measurement distances are different.

The maximum output should be a concern only when you really want to push the subwoofer hard, which we don't do normally.

Last edited by Rythmik; Yesterday at 02:35 PM.
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post #20170 of 20179 Old Today, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by blackjack616 View Post
How does the F15 compare to a higher end sub like the JL 13 or something of that price range?
In what world is JL high end? They are the automobile equivalent of Bose... some quality, but mostly name brand money scheming.
In an effort to add something helpful to that jeer, The F15 sub to JL 13W7 is like a Maserati compared to a Honda Accord.
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post #20171 of 20179 Old Today, 05:53 AM
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In what world is JL high end? They are the automobile equivalent of Bose... some quality, but mostly name brand money scheming.
In an effort to add something helpful to that jeer, The F15 sub to JL 13W7 is like a Maserati compared to a Honda Accord.
JL Audio is a high end manufacturer in the home theater and 2 channel music worlds. I have no experience with them in the auto world, so I can't comment on how they are in that space, but I do have direct exposure to their subwoofer products for the home. They are highly regarded for their exceptional engineering, construction and sound quality, and there is most definitely valid reasons why that is.

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post #20172 of 20179 Old Today, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post
In what world is JL high end? They are the automobile equivalent of Bose... some quality, but mostly name brand money scheming.
In an effort to add something helpful to that jeer, The F15 sub to JL 13W7 is like a Maserati compared to a Honda Accord.
I have JL Audio subwoofers in my cars and they are really good. Very clean and accurate with no boomy sound. I have customers almost everyday asking if our products can be used for car audio application, unfortunately they are not suitable for car audio for many reasons but I always point them into JL Audio direction when car audio comes to the conversation.

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post #20173 of 20179 Old Today, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I have JL Audio subwoofers in my cars and they are really good. Very clean and accurate with no boomy sound. I have customers almost everyday asking if our products can be used for car audio application, unfortunately they are not suitable for car audio for many reasons but I always point them into JL Audio direction when car audio comes to the conversation.
Or point them towards Image Dynamics. I went from a JL Audio W3 to an ID V.4 and it was a significant improvement. At least in my opinion. I now have a single SI BM MK IV in my truck and it blows both away in sound quality and SPL.

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post #20174 of 20179 Old Today, 07:06 AM
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I dont know anything about JLAudio and they may be highly regarded for good reason. But $2600 for a 10" subwoofer seems a little Bose-ish to me.
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post #20175 of 20179 Old Today, 07:16 AM
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I dont know anything about JLAudio and they may be highly regarded for good reason. But $2600 for a 10" subwoofer seems a little Bose-ish to me.
Man, those two aren't even close. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean it's also overrated. JL Audio is definitely not aimed at the "best bang for the buck!" crowd, so for those folks they aren't on the shopping list. They're target audience is the discerning individual who wants exquisitely made US products.

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post #20176 of 20179 Old Today, 07:23 AM
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Man, those two aren't even close. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean it's also overrated. JL Audio is definitely not aimed at the "best bang for the buck!" crowd, so for those folks they aren't on the shopping list. They're target audience is the discerning individual who wants exquisitely made US products.
No wonder I havent heard of them. Im just a poor cheap ignorant audiophile wannabe.
I'll keep them in mind if I win the lottery though.
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post #20177 of 20179 Old Today, 08:28 AM
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I'm sure they're anticipating your future business with bated breath.

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post #20178 of 20179 Unread Today, 11:48 AM
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Just for fun, JT. Edge of Tomorrow at reference MV with +6db subs hot. There was port chuffing but it was not bad. No bad sound was heard at all That noise at the end of the clip was not from the sub. Again, look at how fast Rythmik puts a brake on the driver. Sorry for the crappy phone video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8prrwqwhk0...20hot.MOV?dl=0

Last edited by tvuong; Today at 11:53 AM.
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post #20179 of 20179 Unread Today, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Just for fun, JT. Edge of Tomorrow at reference MV with +6db subs hot. There was port chuffing but it was not bad. No bad sound was heard at all That noise at the end of the clip was not from the sub. Again, look at how fast Rythmik puts a brake on the driver. Sorry for the crappy phone video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8prrwqwhk0...20hot.MOV?dl=0
Stupid work has dropbox blocked. I'll have to check it out when I get home.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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f12g subwoofer , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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