Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 685 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20521 of 30527 Old 09-13-2015, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Viktor Pashin View Post
Just ordered the Calibrated MiniDSP UMIK-1 from Cross-Spectrum, while I wait,
1. is there anything like dual sub crawl?
2. Do I need to start crawling with one, then add another and crawl again?
3. Is there only one best place for a sub in the room? If not, then I should be able to find 2nd best place where I can position 2nd sub, right?
4. What music file shall be playing on the background for better/faster "crawl", any recommendations?
5. Do I need to hook that specific receiver, or can I use my older one?

this is going to be my first crawl, thank you very much for your help!
1. Yes
2. Yep
3. There are compromises with every placement, but the goal is to find the spot with the fewest dips or nulls when you're sitting in your seat. You can tame peaks but you can't boost nulls.
4. Ideally something that plays through the whole subwoofer range, 20-100Hz or so. It is difficult to do this by ear, but it is possible to listen carefully and notice areas where it gets quieter. This is easiest with a setup disc like Disney World of Wonder. There are many.
5. It doesn't matter

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A little R&R: Reaction Audio CX-10 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
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post #20522 of 30527 Old 09-13-2015, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
At one point I had done some pretty in depth research on H frames, W frames and the like because I was going to commission a subwoofer of my own design. I wasn't able to find a partner for the project though (I have zero skills as a craftsman) so I let the concept die. I still find all the less standard alignments fascinating - isobaric, push/pull, bandpass, et al - but the road less traveled has always been a draw for me, so it's really not surprising.

Because of my research though I find it curious they designated that design an OB, because based upon what I gathered it wouldn't fit within the classic definition. An open back subwoofer is not the same a true OB design, so from my perspective that unit is more like an H frame tower.
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I'm not an expert on OB but the design in question may work as an OB only if the driver is mounted on the middle of the frame depth, then it would be a H frame OB design. With the drivers mounted up front would be a U frame OB design but with that depth it may couldn't work as an OB subwoofer correctly..

http://www.mh-audio.nl/ob.asp

I took another look at the pic of the stack of six H-frames, and realized where the confusion is coming from. The pic makes each frame look like it has a baffle at the front of each of them. They don't; what looks like a baffle (the black square with a round hole cut into it) is in actuality a grille frame covered in cloth, just to give the H-frame a finished look---it can, and often is, left off. The baffle is in truth mounted at the exact center of the frame; if the frame is 14" deep (typical), the baffle is 7" back from the front of the frame (ergo, it is also 7" from the rear).


Jim, the reason there in no actual difference (except one--read on) between a classic Open Baffle and an H-frame is that all the frame is doing is increasing the distance between the front and rear of the driver (simulating a wider flat Open Baffle), to prevent cancellation. The H-frame is so named because when viewed from above, it's structure is that of an H. I'll try to make a diagram of an H-frame as viewed from above, to make it more clear:


x.....................x
x.....................x
x.....................x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x.....................x
x.....................x
x.....................x


Okay, not bad (ignore the dots between x's---the AVS Forum system wouldn't allow me to leave the space blank!). Can you tell I'm no computer whiz?! Any way, this is how the H-frame looks when viewed from above, the two vertical rows of x's representing the two sides, the single horizontal row the baffle. If the above H-frame has 14" as both it's width and depth (typical H-frame dimensions for 12" woofers), what the H-frame does acoustically is increase the distance between the two sides of the baffle by the number of inches in the path between the two, if you see what I mean. In the case of a frame with the 14" dimension, that equals 7" (from the front side of the baffle to the front edge of the side), plus 14" (the distance from the front edge of a side to it's back edge), plus 7" (the distance from the back edge of a side to the back side of the baffle), for a total of 28". For the purpose of contrasting the H-frame with a simple flat OB baffle (see below), let's add another 13" to account for the 6.5" distance from the center of each woofer to the edge of the baffle it is mounted on (6.5" for the front of the woofer, 6.5" for the rear, hence 13"). We now have an effective path length between the center of the woofer's front to the center of it's rear totaling 41" (28" + 13"). Are ya with me so far?


What the 14" H-frame does is make the woofer think it's on an Open Baffle 41" wide (the wider a flat Open Baffle is, the greater it's output and bandwidth. A wider baffle lowers the frequency at which the out-of phase front and rear output of each woofer cancel each other). The distance between the center of the front side of a 12" woofer mounted on a simple flat Open Baffle 41" wide and the center of it's rear side is, obviously, 41" (20.5" from the center of the front of the woofer to the edge of the baffle, around the edge of the flat baffle and another 20.5" to the center of the woofer's rear side. A flat, unbraced piece of 3/4" MDF (or even Baltic Birch plywood) 41" wide flexes/vibrates like crazy when pummeled by the movement of two high-output 12" woofers, is very resonant, producing lots of sound of it's own. This we do NOT want! Which brings up the second thing the H-frame does, something Danny Richie feels is very important in obtaining the best sound from the GR Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole sub: It greatly reduces the resonance that the simple flat panel OB baffle possesses. The two sides of the H-frame allow the baffle to be only 12.5" wide rather than 41", which alone helps a lot. But the sides also stiffen the baffle, preventing it from flexing and to therefore resonate less. The horizontal brace in the center of the frame does the same, as do the tops and bottom of the frame (not included in the diagram above. The top and bottom can be any size you want---flush with the sides, or extending past them, as in the stack of six pictured a few pages back). Ric Schultz at EVS (Electronic Visionary Systems) is offering his custom-made version of the GR Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole sub, which he has chosen to make as a simple flat-panel OB rather than as an H-frame. He too wants to insure the baffle is as non-resonant as possible, doing so by making it of three sheets of 3/4" MDF glued together, for a baffle 2.25" thick! There is more than one way to skin a cat. I'm not sure what Ric has chosen as the width of the baffle, however. I'm sure you can specify any you want.


There is one other difference between the H-frame and the simple flat-panel Open Baffle: the cavities created by and within the H-frame structure does result in a cavity resonance, which is a design penalty of the H-frame not shared with the flat-panel OB. The resonant frequency of the cavities within the frame can be computed (it is a function of the cavity dimensions), the resonance being an acceptable trade-off as long as the frequency is kept above the band pass of the woofer system. The deeper the H-frame, the lower the frequency of the cavity resonance. Also, the deeper it is, the more output it creates. Therefore, an H-frame should be constructed with how high in frequency the sub is going to be played (the low-pass x/o frequency being as far below the cavity resonant frequency as possible, conversely the cavity resonance as far above the low-pass x/o frequency as possible), and how much output and low frequency bandwidth is desired, in mind. Danny recommends a frame depth of 14" as a good compromise for use up to 300Hz (the top of the sub's range), such a depth providing a good balance between the cavity resonance frequency of the frame with the frame's capability to support low-frequency output and bandwidth as much as possible. As is usual in design, there are trade-offs which need to be weighed against each other, compromises to be made for the greater good.

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post #20523 of 30527 Old 09-13-2015, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
Jim, the reason there in no actual difference (except one--read on) between a classic Open Baffle and an H-frame is that all the frame is doing is increasing the distance between the front and rear of the driver (simulating a wider flat Open Baffle), to prevent cancellation.

There is one other difference between the H-frame and the simple flat-panel Open Baffle: the cavities created by and within the H-frame structure does result in a cavity resonance, which is a design penalty of the H-frame not shared with the flat-panel OB.
So one difference plus another difference equals... 1 difference? Do you work for the government by chance?

Seriously, very well done post. It's obvious you spent a considerable amount of time writing it and even more on the research. OB's hold no interest to me for some reason but the H frame certainly did. A lot of what I read about how they function and the benefits/drawbacks corroborates what you wrote. A 'line array' consisting of those woofers and amps must be quite the treat for your ears.

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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
The resonant frequency of the cavities within the frame can be computed (it is a function of the cavity dimensions), the resonance being an acceptable trade-off as long as the frequency is kept above the band pass of the woofer system.
I think you may have reversed those two words, and perhaps you meant pass band instead?

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post #20524 of 30527 Old 09-13-2015, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
So one difference plus another difference equals... 1 difference? Do you work for the government by chance?

---Ha! Well, in the first case I was referring to how the same acoustical effect (increasing the distance between the front and rear of the woofer) is achieved via different means by the flat-panel OB vs. the H-frame. The second referred to the one side effect created in the H-frame by it's structure. Two different kinds of, uh, difference ;-).


Seriously, very well done post. It's obvious you spent a considerable amount of time writing it and even more on the research. OB's hold no interest to me for some reason but the H frame certainly did. A lot of what I read about how they function and the benefits/drawbacks corroborates what you wrote. A 'line array' consisting of those woofers and amps must be quite the treat for your ears.

---The line array isn't actually mine, though I wouldn't mind having a couple! I have a pair of standard one-piece W-frames (a variation based on the same principal as the H, with one advantage and one disadvantage between them, which I won't go into here!), each containing two 8ohm drivers. The basic H- or W-frame can be done with either two 8ohm or two/three (builders choice) 16ohm woofers. Two of the 8ohm woofers presents a 4ohm load to the Rythmik plate amp (what it likes to see), as does three 16ohm (approximately). A frame CAN be stuffed with only two 16ohm, but the resulting 8ohm load won't maximize and take advantage of the full output capability of the amp. The 8ohm and 16ohm drivers are priced the same, so there's no good reason for doing that. I originally chose to go with two woofers rather than three because I intended to lay the frames on their sides and use them as stands for the original Quad electrostatic speakers I was going to augment with the sub; a two-woofer frame has a good length for use as such a stand, three woofers would make it too long. Also, to tell the truth, my mild case of OCD makes the symmetry of a two woofer frame much more appealing than a three-woofer (two facing forward but only one to the rear? How imbalanced!).

I have actually ended using the subs to augment a pair of Eminent Technology Magnetic-Planar loudspeakers instead (the Quads being retired for now), so I could have, as it turns out, gone either way. Actually, augment isn't quite accurate; the ET LFT-8b has Magnetic-Planar drivers (similar in most ways to those found in the more widely known and owned Maggies, with a few differences) that are crossed-over at 180Hz to a single 8ohm cone-in-a-box woofer. The woofer is pretty good, but it occurred to me that the OB/Dipole sub would be an elegant way to improve on it, in a few different ways (again, I'll spare ya'll the details!). So I simply disconnected the jumper to the woofer on the rear of the ET, and run the OB/Dipole sub from a second output from my pre-amp (the first going to the power amp that runs the ET's), using the controls on the Rythmik plate amp to set the x/o, etc. I now have the world's only pair of completely dipole LFT-8b's! Beside having inherently superior sound, the dipole radiation characteristic of the sub now matches that of the Magnetic Planar loudspeakers, themselves being dipoles, of course. So the amplitude (frequency) balance of the combo does not change as the listening distance does (due to the different rate of SPL fall off as that distance changes, between a dipole and a non-dipole, the non-dipole falling off faster). As I said, elegant! In contrast, the balance between any sealed or ported sub and the main loudspeaker will be different at different listening distances, a major failing (theoretically at least, if not in practice). One more reason why anyone adding a sub to a dipole speaker should consider the OB/Dipole sub from GR Research/Rythmik. THE sub for use with dipole speakers!




I think you may have reversed those two words, and perhaps you meant pass band instead?
Really? My ignorance on display, for all to see!

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post #20525 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 05:08 AM
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Fury Road was eye and ear candy. FV15HP's got a workout and handled it beautifully with powerful and tight bass.
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post #20526 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
---The line array isn't actually mine, though I wouldn't mind having a couple! I have a pair of standard one-piece W-frames (a variation based on the same principal as the H, with one advantage and one disadvantage between them, which I won't go into here!), each containing two 8ohm drivers. The basic H- or W-frame can be done with either two 8ohm or two/three (builders choice) 16ohm woofers. Two of the 8ohm woofers presents a 4ohm load to the Rythmik plate amp (what it likes to see), as does three 16ohm (approximately). A frame CAN be stuffed with only two 16ohm, but the resulting 8ohm load won't maximize and take advantage of the full output capability of the amp. The 8ohm and 16ohm drivers are priced the same, so there's no good reason for doing that. I originally chose to go with two woofers rather than three because I intended to lay the frames on their sides and use them as stands for the original Quad electrostatic speakers I was going to augment with the sub; a two-woofer frame has a good length for use as such a stand, three woofers would make it too long. Also, to tell the truth, my mild case of OCD makes the symmetry of a two woofer frame much more appealing than a three-woofer (two facing forward but only one to the rear? How imbalanced!).

I have actually ended using the subs to augment a pair of Eminent Technology Magnetic-Planar loudspeakers instead (the Quads being retired for now), so I could have, as it turns out, gone either way. Actually, augment isn't quite accurate; the ET LFT-8b has Magnetic-Planar drivers (similar in most ways to those found in the more widely known and owned Maggies, with a few differences) that are crossed-over at 180Hz to a single 8ohm cone-in-a-box woofer. The woofer is pretty good, but it occurred to me that the OB/Dipole sub would be an elegant way to improve on it, in a few different ways (again, I'll spare ya'll the details!). So I simply disconnected the jumper to the woofer on the rear of the ET, and run the OB/Dipole sub from a second output from my pre-amp (the first going to the power amp that runs the ET's), using the controls on the Rythmik plate amp to set the x/o, etc. I now have the world's only pair of completely dipole LFT-8b's! Beside having inherently superior sound, the dipole radiation characteristic of the sub now matches that of the Magnetic Planar loudspeakers, themselves being dipoles, of course. So the amplitude (frequency) balance of the combo does not change as the listening distance does (due to the different rate of SPL fall off as that distance changes, between a dipole and a non-dipole, the non-dipole falling off faster). As I said, elegant! In contrast, the balance between any sealed or ported sub and the main loudspeaker will be different at different listening distances, a major failing (theoretically at least, if not in practice). One more reason why anyone adding a sub to a dipole speaker should consider the OB/Dipole sub from GR Research/Rythmik. THE sub for use with dipole speakers!
That has to be one killer setup! I'd love to hear it myself. Interestingly, the design I settled on is essentially a W frame, the Linkwitz Dipole. I wanted to go with 15" drivers though.

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Really? My ignorance on display, for all to see!
That's an easy one to transpose. My reviews run between 32k - 39k characters per, and no matter how many times I proof them something inevitably slips by. Unless you're a professional writer - which I'm not - it's unavoidable really.

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post #20527 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
That has to be one killer setup! I'd love to hear it myself. Interestingly, the design I settled on is essentially a W frame, the Linkwitz Dipole. I wanted to go with 15" drivers though.


---Yep, my W-frames are essentially the same as the ones in the Linkwitz LX521 (though they were made from the W-frame diagrams posted on the GR Research website in the product listing for the 12" OB woofer), except I added a brace connecting the two side panels to each other (which I saw in Danny Richie's prototype version of the GR/Rythmik OB/Dipole sub, which was a W-. not an H-, frame). It is a square dowel attached to the inside of both side panels right at the front edge of each, in the middle of the frames height, spanning the large cavity created by the two baffles on the front side of the frame. The brace ties the two large, unsupported panels together, preventing them from flexing and therefore resonating. I also double up the side panels, two layers of 3/4" MDF. Both of these measures considerably stiffen the structure, making for a much less resonant W-frame. Linkwitz is a highly educated, degreed academic, and apparently isn't as concerned with that issue as is Danny. Danny is also an educated engineer, but one with audiophile sensibilities and critical listening skills. Danny fully acknowledges the design abilities of Linkwitz, he finds the sound of his W-frame unacceptably resonant, a product of it's rather flimsy construct. The idea of doubling the side panels was Danny's too.

As you probably know from your research Jim, one benefit of the W-frame missing in the H is that of a slight reduction in harmonic distortion, a result of the 90 degree relationship between the two woofers. But I actually went with the W because I got a pair for virtually nothing; another GR Research/Rythmik customer had bought the frames as flat packs made by Elemental Designs (now out of business). He ended up not using them, and offered them to me for the cost of shipping plus a couple of shipping cartons for the 12" GR woofers. Done!


A lot of OB/Dipole speakers are made with 15" woofers, the reason being the reduced output of the OB design can use all the help it can get, and a 15 generally provides more output than does a 12. The GR Research OB woofer (with the Rythmik Direct-Servo Feedback function built in) is available 12" and 8".



That's an easy one to transpose. My reviews run between 32k - 39k characters per, and no matter how many times I proof them something inevitably slips by. Unless you're a professional writer - which I'm not - it's unavoidable really.

Mine wasn't a proofreading error, put a lack of knowledge error!

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post #20528 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 12:20 PM
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@Rythmik or @enricoclaudio

Just curious! How much of a difference does it make going from the DS1501 driver to the DS1510 driver in the F25?

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Hey guys, i got my MiniDSP 2x4 and the UMIK-1Mic today. this is what i got. i tested with my subwoofer and left and right speakers. i am currently reading the getting stated with REW 101 v4.2 guide.


Left & Right + sub,



SUB only, after changing some settings.


Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Trash
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts Heavy Cinematic | Heavy Electronic|

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post #20530 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 01:27 PM
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You look good except for the nasty null at 40hz. Any way you can move the sub or the seat a little?
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post #20531 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 02:11 PM
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You look good except for the nasty null at 40hz. Any way you can move the sub or the seat a little?
unfortunately not at the moment. these is a 4' wide furniture in the way that should be removed in a couple days or a week. that will give me 4' -1/2 ft of wiggle room and remove the sub from the middle of the room.

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The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts Heavy Cinematic | Heavy Electronic|
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post #20532 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Hey guys, i got my MiniDSP 2x4 and the UMIK-1Mic today. this is what i got. i tested with my subwoofer and left and right speakers. i am currently reading the getting stated with REW 101 v4.2 guide.


Left & Right + sub,



SUB only, after changing some settings.

MrGrey,

Can't really make out what the graphs are saying as it's difficult to look at. Can you re-post as per Jerry's guide?

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post #20533 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 10:38 PM
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I'm trying to decide what to do. Currently I have three 12" DIY sonosubs. They are placed (1) just behind the couch on the left hand side (2) laying on its side in a cradle on the left wall right up against the wall (3) on the right hand side of the screen which opens up to another small room on the right (room is L shaped). They are all linked together and powered by a single buttkicker amp. To me, they sound good and I do get the chest slam in movies. My friend came over with his computer and mic and ran REW - apparently I'm getting a pretty flat response with where they are placed. However, I think there's room for improvement based on the size of my room (20x12).

What I'm debating is whether I should add a Rythmik L22 placed on its side underneath my screen (that, to me, may fill a typical space where people put their subs and I'm limited with that size based on the cabinet size underneath the screen) or (2) add a sub beefier than the L22 on the right behind my couch. I'm inclined to think the sub underneath the screen may be the best spot, but I know that the sonosub behind the couch on the left hand side really helps with the nearfield chest slam, so a sub to the right could be fun also (probably the FVX 15).

.........O.......X....................
........................................
........................................
X......................................
........................................
......................
____________
...X.............O..
......................
......................

If it helps, the diagram above shows the room layout, where X represents my current subs, O represents possible new sub placement and the ___ is where my couch is placed. Any thoughts are appreciated.

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post #20534 of 30527 Old 09-14-2015, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
MrGrey,

Can't really make out what the graphs are saying as it's difficult to look at. Can you re-post as per Jerry's guide?
It's pretty clear to me, but I did notice something. He can't possibly be sweeping his sub at 110-130db. Something is off.

MrGrey, do you have the sens factor added?

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post #20535 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
MrGrey,

Can't really make out what the graphs are saying as it's difficult to look at. Can you re-post as per Jerry's guide?
i will be doing it all over today with Jerry's guide.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Trash
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #20536 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
I'm trying to decide what to do. Currently I have three 12" DIY sonosubs. They are placed (1) just behind the couch on the left hand side (2) laying on its side in a cradle on the left wall right up against the wall (3) on the right hand side of the screen which opens up to another small room on the right (room is L shaped). They are all linked together and powered by a single buttkicker amp. To me, they sound good and I do get the chest slam in movies. My friend came over with his computer and mic and ran REW - apparently I'm getting a pretty flat response with where they are placed. However, I think there's room for improvement based on the size of my room (20x12).

What I'm debating is whether I should add a Rythmik L22 placed on its side underneath my screen (that, to me, may fill a typical space where people put their subs and I'm limited with that size based on the cabinet size underneath the screen) or (2) add a sub beefier than the L22 on the right behind my couch. I'm inclined to think the sub underneath the screen may be the best spot, but I know that the sonosub behind the couch on the left hand side really helps with the nearfield chest slam, so a sub to the right could be fun also (probably the FVX 15).

.........O.......X....................
........................................
........................................
X......................................
........................................
......................
____________
...X.............O..
......................
......................

If it helps, the diagram above shows the room layout, where X represents my current subs, O represents possible new sub placement and the ___ is where my couch is placed. Any thoughts are appreciated.
What is lacking, do you just want more output? Or want to flatten the FR? Either way, I would probably first try moving the other subs around a bit, and if needed/wanted build another of the DIY subs you already have instead of trying to integrate a completely different sub into that system.

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post #20537 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
I'm trying to decide what to do. Currently I have three 12" DIY sonosubs. (snip) To me, they sound good and I do get the chest slam in movies. My friend came over with his computer and mic and ran REW - apparently I'm getting a pretty flat response with where they are placed. However, I think there's room for improvement based on the size of my room (20x12).
I'm inclined to suspect that you're not going to get as much value from a 4th sub for your situation. You've got good placement, desirable objective measurements, and you're reporting a pleasurable sensory experience. Maybe you can try to articulate what you think you're currently missing sensory-wise?

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post #20538 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 06:12 AM
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Hopefully, I asking these questions in the right place, if not pm me or let me know here...

Since I know little about most ID audio companies, I'm curious to know the following about Rythmik Audio...

How long has the company been in business?

What is the size of the company (number of employees, etc.)?

Has the company always been focused on musical subwoofers?

And are there seasonal sales on models like the L12 and LV12R between now and early January 2016?

I'm pretty sure I want a Rythmik sub and those 2 are the most suitable options (leaning towards the L12 at the moment).

Also, what are the user names of those who are from Rythmik on AVS?

Thanks.
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post #20539 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 07:36 AM
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What is lacking, do you just want more output? Or want to flatten the FR? Either way, I would probably first try moving the other subs around a bit, and if needed/wanted build another of the DIY subs you already have instead of trying to integrate a completely different sub into that system.
A bit more output would be welcome for sure. It would be nice for my current subs to not have to work so hard (I need to fix one of the subs also, as the port is vibrating like crazy in bass intense scenes). I've thought about doing another DIY sub, but the driver I used is no longer available, so daisy chaining them all together wouldn't be a good idea if I'm using a different driver for one of them.

Quote:
I'm inclined to suspect that you're not going to get as much value from a 4th sub for your situation. You've got good placement, desirable objective measurements, and you're reporting a pleasurable sensory experience. Maybe you can try to articulate what you think you're currently missing sensory-wise?
Good question. I feel like perhaps I could be getting more detail. I don't want to say that the bass is muddy, but I definitely think there's room for improvement. I wonder if adding a sealed sub would help or if that would mess things up even more. The thing I've found is that ignorance is bliss in this hobby and that's not always a good thing. I had an old set of 6" Paradigms for my fronts which I thought sounded good...until I got my 12" Tannoy LCRs. Night and day difference wow.

Also, going to the forums at AVS I see many people running between 4-8 15 to 18 inch subs and I'm thinking, "I must be missing something." Hence, my desire to get another sub and see if, in fact, I am missing something. If it doesn't significantly enhance the situation, I'll stop there.

Anyhow, thanks for the input. Cheers.
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post #20540 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 08:42 AM
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Hey guys, i got my MiniDSP 2x4 and the UMIK-1Mic today. this is what i got.
Do you have a roughly 14-foot dimension in your room? Also, what crossover frequency are you using? Can you re-measure with subwoofer alone (no speakers)?

Sanjay
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post #20541 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 08:55 AM
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Regarding the quick guide pdf for the L12, it says the background noise level is different between the LFE input and line input... what exactly does this mean for my 5.1 ht avr/speaker setup?
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post #20542 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
Good question. I feel like perhaps I could be getting more detail. I don't want to say that the bass is muddy, but I definitely think there's room for improvement. I wonder if adding a sealed sub would help or if that would mess things up even more. The thing I've found is that ignorance is bliss in this hobby and that's not always a good thing. I had an old set of 6" Paradigms for my fronts which I thought sounded good...until I got my 12" Tannoy LCRs. Night and day difference wow.
Adding a nice subwoofer to a system that has questionable ones will not really 'clean up' the sound, especially when there would be 3 of the latter and only 1 of the former (output favors the 3 obviously). I'm with the others; it might be a good idea to see if you can make the situation better with what you currently have than to spend more money and maybe not get the desired results.


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Also, going to the forums at AVS I see many people running between 4-8 15 to 18 inch subs and I'm thinking, "I must be missing something." Hence, my desire to get another sub and see if, in fact, I am missing something. If it doesn't significantly enhance the situation, I'll stop there.
There is a point of diminishing return and some of those monstrous systems you see fall into that category. Having more than "enough" capacity will allow your system to deftly handle the broad dynamic swings that some movie soundtracks have today, but much beyond 'some' and you start to spend a lot of money for little practical return.

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post #20543 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Regarding the quick guide pdf for the L12, it says the background noise level is different between the LFE input and line input... what exactly does this mean for my 5.1 ht avr/speaker setup?
Essentially nothing... The LFE input has wider bandwidth so the noise floor is a hair higher. In practice I can barely tell the difference unless my ear is against the sub.
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post #20544 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 11:43 AM
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Brian has the habit of detailing every little thing, because he is an engineer and that is exactly what he should do. But to the point of the noise on the LFE channel, in the real world it's inaudible unless, like Don said, you're sticking your head near the driver and listening for it.
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post #20545 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 11:48 AM
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Essentially nothing... The LFE input has wider bandwidth so the noise floor is a hair higher. In practice I can barely tell the difference unless my ear is against the sub.
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Brian has the habit of detailing every little thing, because he is an engineer and that is exactly what he should do. But to the point of the noise on the LFE channel, in the real world it's inaudible unless, like Don said, you're sticking your head near the driver and listening for it.
Figured it couldn't be anything major, but I had to ask before buying.

Is Brian the one who designs all the subs for the company?

Current Setup REW FR measures

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings

Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha RX-A2070, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Sony SS-CS5 Surrounds, Cambridge S20 Rear Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4 Slim, Xbox One, Xfinity X1
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post #20546 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 11:50 AM
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Between now and Christmas/New Years, are there any annual sales that occur? I should have the money saved up sometime roughly a month from now but I want to get the best price in this time window (mid October to New Years).

Current Setup REW FR measures

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings

Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha RX-A2070, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Sony SS-CS5 Surrounds, Cambridge S20 Rear Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4 Slim, Xbox One, Xfinity X1
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post #20547 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Figured it couldn't be anything major, but I had to ask before buying.

Is Brian the one who designs all the subs for the company?
Yes, Brian is the one who designs all our subwoofers. Also Brian is the inventor of DirectServo technology.
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Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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Yes, Brian is the one who designs all our subwoofers. Also Brian is the inventor of DirectServo technology.
Cool, good to know

Current Setup REW FR measures

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings

Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha RX-A2070, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Sony SS-CS5 Surrounds, Cambridge S20 Rear Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4 Slim, Xbox One, Xfinity X1
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post #20549 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 12:06 PM
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Wanted to share a picture of our Taiwan Dealer new Rythmik van
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Horizon w/ RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Emotiva XMC-1 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony HW40ES |
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post #20550 of 30527 Old 09-15-2015, 12:09 PM
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Brian Ding is Rythmik. He holds the patent and designs the subs. And pretty much everything else.
Enrico is his assistant (correct title, please, Enrico).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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