Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 688 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:20 AM
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this was ''fixed'' in 5.13 - Bug fix: When starting up with ASIO drivers selected SPL meter calibration status could be forgotten'' but this problem i still around so idk.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:07 AM
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This might be relevant:

Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs

Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings)
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:17 AM
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Thanks allot, this pretty much explains everything... kind of a kick in the balls considering the whole point is not needing to calibrate with this mic and its files. i no longer have windows 7 anywhere in my home but i do have Linux so i will run Ubuntu from usb and see how it works later today. Thank you all for the help now lets hope this issue with REW is fixed soon. i will let you know what happens and if i don't that means i am gone fro home and wont be back for a month or two.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Thanks allot, this pretty much explains everything... kind of a kick in the balls considering the whole point is not needing to calibrate with this mic and its files. i no longer have windows 7 anywhere in my home but i do have Linux so i will run Ubuntu from usb and see how it works later today. Thank you all for the help now lets hope this issue with REW is fixed soon. i will let you know what happens and if i don't that means i am gone fro home and wont be back for a month or two.
I just got mine working. Try just using the Java driver.

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Old 09-19-2015, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I just got mine working. Try just using the Java driver.
i will try, since i am only doing the sub it shouldn't be a problem i just have to check how to output to the sub only using java.

Edit - i don't think there is a way since i am using HDMI.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
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Sub - Rythmik FV15HP

Last edited by MrGrey; 09-19-2015 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:27 AM
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i will try, since i am only doing the sub it shouldn't be a problem i just have to check how to output to the sub only using java.

Edit - i don't think there is a way since i am using HDMI.
I just realized the same. It seems like we have to actually unplug the speakers. Time for banana plugs.

I actually just got it all working. Windows 10 laptop, HDMI out, ASIO. I got the warning about the uncalibrated mic, but I just hit continue anyway and it seems to work fine. I can now select all channels independently.

The levels are different though. There's about an 8db difference between the two (Java is louder).

As long as your file looks like mine you should be fine.

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Old 09-19-2015, 11:15 AM
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Seems like REW is not reading the sensitivity correctly. I have rarely cared about absolute levels so that doesn't bother me but it is nice to know ballpark where I am, for which the cheap RS SPL meter is fine. I no longer have a calibrated (for absolute level) meter or mic. I only have the curve for my Earthworks mic (they provide files now, not back when I got mine). I could enter a few points manually, but the thing is so flat it's hardly worth it. It is nice knowing I can count on my CSL UMIK-1 readings, however, and is much easier using the same mic to run correction (Dirac Live) and readings (REW) without bouncing back and forth from USB mic to the line input (after my mic preamp).

I also tend to reload a previous run as a starting point, and that restores the mic info as well. I just delete the previous measurement if I don't need it. I keep a "dummy" run around just so everything is set up the same way, at least at the start.

I also tend to flaunt the REW Wizards and use higher amplitude resolution. A 10 dB peak is the same if shown at 10 dB/div or 1 dB/div. I like to zoom in so the curve fills the plot and on my notebook that gave me 2 dB/div. Being one of those anal design engineering types I go for maximum detail and resolution in my plots... However, it is nice to have a quasi-standard so it is easy to compare curves among trials and to other folks' systems, so I can always plot in 5 dB/div scale when needed. Ther is also the argument about how much detail we can hear, which of course also relates to the smoothing applied. I find myself in agreement with REW's variable smoothing and use it for most of my plots. My other measurement SW also allows me to choose differnt smoothing factors but it is fixed over the sweep. I asked for the raw data or FFT output so I could play with the smoothing in Mathcad or Matlab, but it would have cost me to have the author add that to the program, so I passed.

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Old 09-19-2015, 11:59 AM
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Don, when are you coming over to tweak my system/room???

Magnepan 1.7's (LR), Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel), Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds), Rythmik F12 (Sub), Emotiva XMC-1 (Processor), Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's, Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds, Oppo BDP-103, Sony PS4

Last edited by stustan; 09-19-2015 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I find myself in agreement with REW's variable smoothing and use it for most of my plots.
I played with that last night. It is an interesting approach, but my head just can't accept the fact that I'm reducing the amount of information I can glean from the graph. Imagine a paper in which temperature data was smoothed, cutting off vital information at the extremes, trying to pass peer review. Oye!

I like 1/12 as a good middle ground for a full range graph, with a separate 15-300Hz unsmoothed bass graph rather than trying to compromise.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I played with that last night. It is an interesting approach, but my head just can't accept the fact that I'm reducing the amount of information I can glean from the graph. Imagine a paper in which temperature data was smoothed, cutting off vital information at the extremes, trying to pass peer review. Oye!

I like 1/12 as a good middle ground for a full range graph, with a separate 15-300Hz unsmoothed bass graph rather than trying to compromise.
The info is still there, it's just how it is displayed. There are so many ripples in the HF response that I find myself averaging by eye anyway so I like having the smoother curve. When I need it, I use the unsmoothed (or whatever smoothed) response. The top fundamental on a piano (C8) is about 4200 Hz and I can't hear much above 10 or 12 kHz anyway so the extra HF resolution is just noise. Perhaps I am more conditioned to smoothing since similar concepts are routine in the radar and imaging world, and even in my current SerDes testing we use noise averaging for a lot of things.

1/12th-octave (0.083333 octave) is not a bad choice, and one I use fairly often, since there are 12 notes in an octave (for my music, anyway, at least when I practice more than lately...)

I don't really care about temp curves below -10 degF or over 90 degF either, probably much less than that -- my comfort zone is pretty narrow these days. Of course I need decent resolution -55 to 125 (or 140 these days) degC for gov't stuff.

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Don, when I are coming over to tweak my system/room???
Soon as you learn some decent grammar, bud. Then again, I'm a country boy, send me to He!! or NYC... Seriously, love to see your system some time!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

Last edited by DonH50; 09-19-2015 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:59 PM
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Soon as you learn some decent grammar, bud. Then again, I'm a country boy, send me to He!! or NYC... Seriously, love to see your system some time!
Oops that's what I get for replying while I am supposed to be working! I would love to see/hear your system too!

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Old 09-19-2015, 02:08 PM
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It's Saturday, go home! (Can't really say much as I have been putting in a lot of hours too and it's about to get insanely busy again.)

Back on topic: I am going to have to tweak the Dirac Live target curve a bit; with four subs that reach to below 10 Hz in my little room the bass is boosted too much. It's making my ears pop and the dog gets nervous (she doesn't like thunder) every time I play a movie (fairly rare alas) or music with deep bass. OTOH, all the pressure waves wuppin' me upside the head haven't wiped the smile off my face since getting that extra pair installed... It is hard to describe how much difference the extra subs make. FR is way better and the little subs are just coasting along at volumes that shake the walls. My wife can hear the bass upstairs now, despite all the room isolation (floating walls/ceiling, double inner walls, etc.) She hasn't complained, just noticed it. I may have to steal basshead's username...
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:32 PM
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Peq

If I am to use the PEQ to tame this peak at 50-60Hz, would I use the exact same setting on both subs?

What would you recommend I do here:
Click image for larger version

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Old 09-20-2015, 12:58 AM
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Post-PEQ results

It took an individual, iterative process. I started with Sub2 and perfected the frequency, gain, and bandwidth until I had just the desired result. Then, I did the same for Sub1. They ended up with quite different PEQ settings to tame this peak:

Sub2 PEQ -12db 58Hz
Bandwidth 10:00
(Gold line result)

then

Sub1 PEQ -12db 47Hz
Bandwidth 07:30
(Light blue line result)

Click image for larger version

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That was a nasty peak! I'm glad I went with Rythmik subs. The fine control is so handy.

I'm done with optimizing my bass region. Tonight, I moved seats and subs a little and used the PEQ for the first time. I eliminated nulls at 85hz and 110hz and tamed that massive peak at 50-60Hz. Most of my problems now are >200hz, which are easier to absorb. Next, I'll adjust the mains a bit and run Audyssey.

Oh and I also took a quick peak at my response with just 1 sub on. It was ALL over the place. We aren't talking about a small improvement. The benefit of 2 subs, for me in this room, can't be understated.

Last edited by Soulburner; 09-20-2015 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 09-20-2015, 01:29 PM
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Regarding the LV12R, is the unboxing step exactly as detailed in Jim's review? Open top, put on side, and use sliding pallet to remove from box.

Also, once the feet are installed can I slide it on those directly on my carpeted floor or do I need furniture sliders or something of the sort?

When connecting to my receiver and running the auto setup routine for the first time, do I want to set the sub gain significantly under the midpoint?

I have 87dB lr fronts about 5-8 feet from the mlp. Asking because I don't want a loud boom and level error message on my receiver. I like to set sub gain a bit high so the AVR sw trim is between -5dB and -10dB. This leaves headroom for running the trim hot afterwards. On my current 120W SUB-1200, the sub gain is somewhat past halfway, probably near 1 o'clock or so.
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Old 09-20-2015, 01:35 PM
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^^ I am sure you'll figure out how to inbox the sub. If the sub is on carpet, I wouldn't bother putting the feet on. Don't know about the sub gain to get you to -5 and -10. Audyssey lets you save the calibration after the first step to check levels.
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Old 09-20-2015, 03:30 PM
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I'm going to share something else I learned last night.

Here is what I was able to obtain by moving both of my subs slightly, moving my seat up about a foot to get out of some nulls, adjusting the sub distance in my AVR, and using the PEQ to bring down a 15db mountain at 58Hz.

Click image for larger version

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Nearly ruler flat 15-80Hz with zero smoothing. Also there are no bass traps or absorbers of any kind in this (live) living room except for carpet and furniture. A true testament to dual subs and proper setup.

However, I didn't like how it sounded. It turns out that I really like 60Hz, and flattening that peak left me unsatisfied with the loss of impact. It seems that notes in the 50-60hz range give a visceral feel in my room, and vibrate the floor under my seat. I wanted that back, so I dialed the PEQ back quite a bit so that it's now a 6db peak rather than completely smooth. It was previously a 15db mountain. So the lesson I learned is that I don't like a flat bass response.

Some songs that I use for testing:

Transformers 2 - The Fallen
Transformers 3 - Lost Signal
Mass Effect 3 - Reaper Chase

There are some very tight, hard hitting bass notes in these songs that use 50-60Hz notes to create impact, and it's addicting. I didn't know what I had until I lost it!

I also am using Dynamic EQ to lift the bass region and create the downward slope that is favored by many.

Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings)
Denon AVR-X4000
A little R&R: Reaction Audio CX-10 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
And a pair of Emotiva Airmotiv 5s

Last edited by Soulburner; 09-20-2015 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ I am sure you'll figure out how to inbox the sub. If the sub is on carpet, I wouldn't bother putting the feet on. Don't know about the sub gain to get you to -5 and -10. Audyssey lets you save the calibration after the first step to check levels.
Ok, so I should be able to slide it on the carpet without feet and without scratching the bottom finish?

Are feet optional due to no port or driver firing down? My current sub has built in feet and is down ported.

I have a Yamaha AVR with YPAO, so I can't see anything until it's done.

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Old 09-20-2015, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Ok, so I should be able to slide it on the carpet without feet and without scratching the bottom finish?

Are feet optional due to no port or driver firing down? My current sub has built in feet and is down ported.

I have a Yamaha AVR with YPAO, so I can't see anything until it's done.
Don't overthink it. Get the furniture sliders from HD or Amazon if you're worried about it. They have many uses other then sliding subs around. If shipping weight is 69 lbs. you can probably pick it up to move it too unless you've got back problems. The feet are optional for the reason you stated - personally I would use them unless you want to keep the sub an inch or so lower. I'm sure others skip them on carpet and are equally satisfied.

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Old 09-20-2015, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Ok, so I should be able to slide it on the carpet without feet and without scratching the bottom finish?

Are feet optional due to no port or driver firing down? My current sub has built in feet and is down ported.

I have a Yamaha AVR with YPAO, so I can't see anything until it's done.
Don't overthink it. Get the furniture sliders from HD or Amazon if you're worried about it. They have many uses other then sliding subs around. If shipping weight is 69 lbs. you can probably pick it up to move it too unless you've got back problems. The feet are optional for the reason you stated - personally I would use them unless you want to keep the sub an inch or so lower. I'm sure others skip them on carpet and are equally satisfied.
I guess I'm just asking what most do... if furniture sliders are unnecessary, I don't want to get them. I can't lift it as I do have back problems.

So what do most do on carpet regarding moving the sub?
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:02 PM
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And is it easier to slide without feet?
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:22 PM
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Ok, so I should be able to slide it on the carpet without feet and without scratching the bottom finish?
.
A truly vexing problem. Glad you mentioned
Your back problems.

The one thing you should do is get an old
Sheet and move the boxed up sub on to the
Sheet.

Once the sub is on the sheet I usually cut the
Taped flaps of the box and gently flip the box
180 degrees and slide the box off in an upward
Motion. You may need to repeat this procedure
If the sub is double boxed. Remove the styrofoam
Pieces and the plastic wrap.

At this time with the sub unboxed and on the sheet
Slide the sub (using a firm grip on the sheet)
to your preferred spot. This would probably be
The time to decide if you want to install the feet
Or not.

Remove the sheet from under the sub by tilting it to
One side,sliding the sheet under the sub and then
Tilting it to the other side to completely remove the
Sheet.

Hope this helped!

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Old 09-20-2015, 05:27 PM
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I don't use feet. They slide fine without them.

I'd use them on a hard floor, though.

Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings)
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A little R&R: Reaction Audio CX-10 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:49 PM
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I use the feet on carpet, plus I have two bulldogs that like to run laps and when they bump things they move (like the couch).

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Old 09-20-2015, 06:18 PM
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The difference with 2xFV15HP is 11db more output at 20Hz vs dual F15HP. That's not a small amount.

Do you have an idea of how loud you like your movies?
Two FV15HP's = +5.5 dB at 20 Hz compared to two F15HP's, according to Rythmik's 20 Hz output comparison on their website.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I'm going to share something else I learned last night.

Here is what I was able to obtain by moving both of my subs slightly, moving my seat up about a foot to get out of some nulls, adjusting the sub distance in my AVR, and using the PEQ to bring down a 15db mountain at 58Hz.

Attachment 953418

Nearly ruler flat 15-80Hz with zero smoothing. Also there are no bass traps or absorbers of any kind in this (live) living room except for carpet and furniture. A true testament to dual subs and proper setup.

However, I didn't like how it sounded. It turns out that I really like 60Hz, and flattening that peak left me unsatisfied with the loss of impact. It seems that notes in the 50-60hz range give a visceral feel in my room, and vibrate the floor under my seat. I wanted that back, so I dialed the PEQ back quite a bit so that it's now a 6db peak rather than completely smooth. It was previously a 15db mountain. So the lesson I learned is that I don't like a flat bass response.

Some songs that I use for testing:

Transformers 2 - The Fallen
Transformers 3 - Lost Signal
Mass Effect 3 - Reaper Chase

There are some very tight, hard hitting bass notes in these songs that use 50-60Hz notes to create impact, and it's addicting. I didn't know what I had until I lost it!

I also am using Dynamic EQ to lift the bass region and create the downward slope that is favored by many.
Outstanding job. And it's even better that you found an eq profile that sounds good to you.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I don't use feet. They slide fine without them.

I'd use them on a hard floor, though.
I guess I'll do the same, it should slide easily that way.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Outstanding job. And it's even better that you found an eq profile that sounds good to you.
I've learned a thing or three from reading these forums, including plenty of your posts.

I now have the sub levels +1 higher than my last post, and the 58hz bump only 3db higher than the rest. I felt that when listening to real music like Tool and Chevelle, they sounded too unbalanced with a big bump there.

Just goes to show you much you can tweak your setup with repeated listening. You really need a broad selection of music to dial things in as well.
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Old 09-21-2015, 05:48 AM
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Furious 7 has some great bass...low...

65E6P / 65EF9500 / DMP-UB900
AV7702II / Outlaw 7125
RF7II's / RC64II / Dual FV15HP's
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Old 09-21-2015, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Furious 7 has some great bass...low...
Looking forward to watching it with the LV12R. Big fan of such movies (action/car related).
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