Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 700 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20971 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 12:46 PM
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Hi Enrico-
how do I use these results? Do I adjust phase delay on the AVR only leaving FVX15 amp at 0 degrees of Phase (I do change the distance on AVR only to recommended 15.6ft)? or do I need to adjust the phase/delay control on the FVX15 amp only to 195 degrees? or on both AVR/Oppo distance to 15.6ft and on the FVX15 amp to 195 degrees?



Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The best way to set the phase/delay is with the Subtuner software. It's a Rythmik Audio proprietary software that you can use to set delay and the recommended crossover. It's a Java program so make sure to have Java installed in your computer. Also know that the FVX15 is not yet on the Subtuner database but you can use the FV15 option and get the same results.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/subtuner2.html
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post #20972 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post
Hi Enrico-
how do I use these results? Do I adjust phase delay on the AVR only leaving FVX15 amp at 0 degrees of Phase (I do change the distance on AVR only to recommended 15.6ft)? or do I need to adjust the phase/delay control on the FVX15 amp only to 195 degrees? or on both AVR/Oppo distance to 15.6ft and on the FVX15 amp to 195 degrees?

If you use LFE out on the 103D and LFE IN on the FVX15 then set the recommended distance from Subtuner on the 103D. Nothing has to be done on the FVX15 because you are using LFE IN. If you use LFE out on the 103D and LINE IN on the FVX15 then set the recommended distance from Subtuner on the 103D and additionally set delay/phase at 0 on the FVX15, crossover at 120Hz on the FVX15 and Slope at 12dB. Also remember to set speakers Small and crossover at 80Hz on the 103D for the front speakers. Also set the distance for each front speaker on the 103D.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #20973 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 01:09 PM
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Thank you for super fast responses and two more questions: I use LINE IN on FVX15 and my setup for music in 2.1, do I still setup FVX15 Slope at 12dB or for 2-channel stereo I should set to 24dB? Also for music the Bass Extension on FVX15 should be set to Low Music?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
If you use LFE out on the 103D and LFE IN on the FVX15 then set the recommended distance from Subtuner on the 103D. Nothing has to be done on the FVX15 because you are using LFE IN. If you use LFE out on the 103D and LINE IN on the FVX15 then set the recommended distance from Subtuner on the 103D and additionally set delay/phase at 0 on the FVX15, crossover at 120Hz on the FVX15 and Slope at 12dB. Also remember to set speakers Small and crossover at 80Hz on the 103D for the front speakers. Also set the distance for each front speaker on the 103D.
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post #20974 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post
Thank you for super fast responses and two more questions: I use LINE IN on FVX15 and my setup for music in 2.1, do I still setup FVX15 Slope at 12dB or for 2-channel stereo I should set to 24dB? Also for music the Bass Extension on FVX15 should be set to Low Music?
Use 12dB/Slope and 120Hz crossover on the FVX15. Also Low Music is fine!!



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
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post #20975 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
That driver is a beast. No wonder my duals sound so good
Also the servo amp with that huge transformers and capacitors contributes greatly to the articulate sound we hear. I saw that amp and it's a beast.
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post #20976 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 01:39 PM
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I love amps and the idea these have a toroidal transformer was very cool.
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post #20977 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
HQD comes to mind. Been a long time since I heard one, however. And frankly my memory is that the bass was not all that great; it took a massive amp to control the woofers. eV (I think) made models up to 32" or so. They used to plug them into the wall as a demo at CES shows and the like. Bozak was another "lots of bass" manufacturer though they took the multiple driver route. Back then their LF cutoff was not all that low, however, but they sounded impressive!

I'll stick with Rythmik.

Oh yeah Don, no comparison. The HQD (Hartley/Quad/Decca, for bass/midrange/highs) is still revered in Japan (where most of the HQD's reside) by the extreme High End fanatics there, who tri-amp them with single-ended triodes. The speaker was the product of Mark Levinson (the man), who really only made the stands and x/o (designed by John Curl) for the 3-way design, the drivers themselves just purchased from their makers. Around $80,000, I believe it was, and that was in late 1970's dollars! We had a dealer in San Jose who had the HQD in his listening room, and he actually sold some. Not to anyone I knew! $30,000 bought a real nice three bedroom house in the valley at that time, and a BMW 2002 was $5,000, to give a basis for comparison. The 24" Hartley was good for the time, but nowhere near as good as a Rythmik. The only speaker that was competition for the HQD was the Wilson Audio WAMM, which was also comprised of ESL midrange panels (though RTR's, not Quads), sub cabinets, and separate tweeter boxes, and was priced about the same as the HQD. Today you can get a pair of Maggie 3.7i's and Rythmik subs for a small fraction of those speaker's prices, and that killer combo is superior to both. The price-to-performance ratio of Hi-Fi has increased dramatically in the past few decades, IMO.

Last edited by BDP24; 10-08-2015 at 12:26 AM.
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post #20978 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
@tvuong

Glad you were able to finally meet Brian and see the shop. Isn't it crazy to see how small of an operation it is at Rythmik, but yet they are highly regarded and world renowned? I've had the opportunity on more than one occasion to speak with Brian in person and you can definitely tell he is very passionate about what he does. Did you get the opportunity to meet Rick too? Great guy as well.
Rick was not there.
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post #20979 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The best way to set the phase/delay is with the Subtuner software. It's a Rythmik Audio proprietary software that you can use to set delay and the recommended crossover. It's a Java program so make sure to have Java installed in your computer. Also know that the FVX15 is not yet on the Subtuner database but you can use the FV15 option and get the same results.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/subtuner2.html
My "security settings" will not allow me to look at this page.... What is the most common JAVA Setting that blocks this site?
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post #20980 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 06:50 PM
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Chrome?

They have killed it but Firefox and IE will probably still run it.
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post #20981 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post

My "security settings" will not allow me to look at this page.... What is the most common JAVA Setting that blocks this site?
You have to go into the security settings on the Java settings page and add the rythmikaudio.com domain to the exceptions list. I believe you can get to the Java settings through Control Panel in Windows. Or search for it in the Start menu.
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post #20982 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 08:36 PM
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This may seem like a foolish question. i have paired the lv12r i just bought second hand to my NAD t775. i have wired it to both lfe and l and r because i figured that if the receiver is pushing surround to sub it would use lfe and if i am listening to stereo music, the receiver will push to sub with rca's. is this correct? haven't messed with the settings much and love the sub for the two days i've had it.
Thanks,
Charlie
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post #20983 of 24558 Old 10-07-2015, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post
...
My pre is Oppo 103D, feeding Harman power amp and I use LFE out from Oppo, my mains are Philharmonic Audio New Affordable Monitors 2. Room is open plan around 6300 cu. ft.
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
If you use LFE out on the 103D and LFE IN on the FVX15 then set the recommended distance from Subtuner on the 103D. Nothing has to be done on the FVX15 because you are using LFE IN. If you use LFE out on the 103D and LINE IN on the FVX15 then set the recommended distance from Subtuner on the 103D and additionally set delay/phase at 0 on the FVX15, crossover at 120Hz on the FVX15 and Slope at 12dB. Also remember to set speakers Small and crossover at 80Hz on the 103D for the front speakers. Also set the distance for each front speaker on the 103D.
dvzzz,

If you're planning on using the Oppo for bass management, please note there is a clipping issue on the LFE pre-out according to this thread: Bass Management Setup in Oppo Blu-ray players | Technical discussion only

Tests carried out by AVS member Shreds shows this.

Be careful with movies that have heavy bass sound tracks if you want to use the analogue outputs of the Oppo and have a direct connection to the Rythmik sub.

One can avoid the Oppo clipping issue by using HDMI connection to a receiver and implementing the receiver's bass management. Then connect your Rythmik sub to the receiver's LFE pre-out.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, Harmony Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
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post #20984 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliekboston View Post
This may seem like a foolish question. i have paired the lv12r i just bought second hand to my NAD t775. i have wired it to both lfe and l and r because i figured that if the receiver is pushing surround to sub it would use lfe and if i am listening to stereo music, the receiver will push to sub with rca's. is this correct? haven't messed with the settings much and love the sub for the two days i've had it.
I believe the amp is set to work with one input path, not both simultaneously, so you probably aren't getting any value from that.

LFE is a separate channel and has nothing to do with surrounds. If that's the primary reason for hooking up both inputs you can unhook one.

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post #20985 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
I believe the amp is set to work with one input path, not both simultaneously, so you probably aren't getting any value from that.

LFE is a separate channel and has nothing to do with surrounds. If that's the primary reason for hooking up both inputs you can unhook one.
Jim, thanks for the input. I guess my follow up question would be if I am listening to 2 channel stereo music through my receiver and i have the sub only connected via lfe, will the sub work?
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post #20986 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by charliekboston View Post
Jim, thanks for the input. I guess my follow up question would be if I am listening to 2 channel stereo music through my receiver and i have the sub only connected via lfe, will the sub work?
The LFE input disables some of the controls on the sub amp because those features would be handled by the receiver. Things like crossover for example. You will still get bass from 2 channel music using either input path.

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post #20987 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 10:22 AM
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Just an update on my 'noise' issue...

With MiniDSP out of the signal path and connecting AVR directly to one of the Line In connections and sub gain at 12:00, AVR sets sub trim to a perfect 0.0 dB. Noise is near impossible to hear even with my ear close to driver and all other devices in room off.

Now once I get the RCA 'Y' adapter I just ordered, I can use both Line In connections and gain 6 dB, so that once I get the MiniDSP back into the signal path, I can set sub gain only somewhat higher than 12:00. Might be some noise, but not like before.

Turns out previously it was near max, not 2/3 or 3/4 as I thought it was. Also, LFE in is somewhat noisier than Line In, even at the same sub gain.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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post #20988 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Also, LFE in is somewhat noisier than Line In, even at the same sub gain.

This is becasue the noise is from the source. The bandwidth from LFE in is higher at the upper end extension. So you will hear more noise from the source. Some may say the noise also goes down to low frequencies. But keep in mind, our hearing sensitivity keeps increasing from subsonic to about 1khz and then drop again. So if the source noise is high, we recommend use LINE in.
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post #20989 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
This is becasue the noise is from the source. The bandwidth from LFE in is higher at the upper end extension. So you will hear more noise from the source. Some may say the noise also goes down to low frequencies. But keep in mind, our hearing sensitivity keeps increasing from subsonic to about 1khz and then drop again. So if the source noise is high, we recommend use LINE in.
ok, thanks... luckily I still get enough upper end extension with Line In
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UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
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post #20990 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 10:32 AM
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^^ though I'm considering a house curve that takes less off the 40Hz and under range...

Do subs sound best at 80Hz and under only (crossovers)?

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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post #20991 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 10:32 AM
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i may have missed it, but has anyone here picked up an L22 yet? i pulled the trigger on it, and it's still sitting in the box as i wait for new furniture to arrive before i set up the new theatre system
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post #20992 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tw1zt3d View Post
i may have missed it, but has anyone here picked up an L22 yet? i pulled the trigger on it, and it's still sitting in the box as i wait for new furniture to arrive before i set up the new theatre system
Check on this post from four weeks ago:

Rythmik L22 vs HSU ULS-15 mk2

This is a pair of L22s in a 10000 cu ft living room.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #20993 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw1zt3d View Post
i may have missed it, but has anyone here picked up an L22 yet? i pulled the trigger on it, and it's still sitting in the box as i wait for new furniture to arrive before i set up the new theatre system
I have one that I am using with an E15HP which was Brian's recommendation for my room. They go together very well, and the L22 on its own sounds very good too. The size of the L22 makes it easier to place.
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post #20994 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Just an update on my 'noise' issue...

With MiniDSP out of the signal path and connecting AVR directly to one of the Line In connections and sub gain at 12:00, AVR sets sub trim to a perfect 0.0 dB. Noise is near impossible to hear even with my ear close to driver and all other devices in room off.

Now once I get the RCA 'Y' adapter I just ordered, I can use both Line In connections and gain 6 dB, so that once I get the MiniDSP back into the signal path, I can set sub gain only somewhat higher than 12:00. Might be some noise, but not like before.

Turns out previously it was near max, not 2/3 or 3/4 as I thought it was. Also, LFE in is somewhat noisier than Line In, even at the same sub gain.
That explains the hum. What about the whirring whirling fan noise?
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post #20995 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 12:09 PM
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The hum only accompanied the whirling sound when the rca cable was unplugged. Otherwise, it's only a whirling sound. Either way, now both are 99% absent though raising gain will increase the whirling sound.
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post #20996 of 24558 Old 10-08-2015, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
With RCA cable from MiniDSP plugged in the sound is without hum, but louder whirling...

With RCA cable unplugged sound is with hum, but not as loud whirling...
See this post for more details

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; 10-08-2015 at 12:14 PM.
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post #20997 of 24558 Old 10-09-2015, 05:42 AM
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L12 vs. F12

Brian/Enrico, could you explain the differences between the new L12 and the F12? Why is the L12 so much cheaper? Or, to put the question another way, why should I pay $874 for a 12" direct servo Rythmik when I can get one for $300 less?

Sorry if this has been asked already...
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post #20998 of 24558 Old 10-09-2015, 06:07 AM
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From what I can tell there's a laundry list of little differences that add up for the F12 vs. L12. Paper vs. aluminum cone is one major difference.

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post #20999 of 24558 Old 10-09-2015, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robto View Post
Brian/Enrico, could you explain the differences between the new L12 and the F12? Why is the L12 so much cheaper? Or, to put the question another way, why should I pay $874 for a 12" direct servo Rythmik when I can get one for $300 less?

Sorry if this has been asked already...
L12 is part of our entry level subwoofers. LV12R is our entry level single tuned ported sub. L12 is our entry level sealed sub. LVX12 is our entry level multi-tuned ported sub.

Sound quality of L12 is excellent for its price range. The F12, our higher end model, improves on micro-dynamics, flexibility in control (one PEQ control and separate damping/extension control), slightly higher output, and a high end looking metal cone driver. F12 also comes with piano finish option. If customers can afford F12, we recommend F12 over L12. It is mainly dictated by budget. The difference of micro-dynmic is very subtle. Not everyone can immediately tell the difference. But if you plan to upgrade your front speakers in the future, invest in a more expensive subwoofer from the very beginning also makes sense.
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post #21000 of 24558 Old 10-09-2015, 06:40 AM
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LVX12? don't see that on the website... it is new?

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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