Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 718 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 11-14-2015, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
In case you missed, JT has 2 FV15hps to achieve the 108db in his room.
I hadn't noticed him saying it directly, but given the size of his room I reckoned dual subs were at play. I'll be looking into dual subs if/when I move into the new space I'm considering, at which point I'll be sitting between 5,000-6,000 cubic feet. Right now I'm only at ~2100 cubic feet.

Again, my idea here is to get more than enough for now, so that it goes back to being more than enough when I double up down the road

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Old 11-14-2015, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sevenz View Post
I've used and tested both HSU and Rythmik 15" subs in my system before and my impressions are both produces good subs. Note that the FV15HP is at a slightly higher price point. Out of the 2, my ears prefer the Rythmik. Frankly, u wont go wrong with either. =)

IMHO, my decision route would be like this:
1) if i can only fit 1 single sub in my room and absolutely no intention to add a 2nd sub, and budget is not a concern, i would lean towards the FV15HP.
2) if i plan to add 1 more sub in future, however dont want to spend too much (but the price of 2x HSU subs is ok), i would lean towards the HSU.

If budegt is an issue, we have less expensive FVX15 model. It uses exactly the same enclosure and tuning of FV15HP. It also has metal cone driver.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Unless Rythmik releases other numbers, or the LV12R is officially tested, that is all one has to compare. And both have fairly flat frequency responses, so why is it going to be behind 2-3 dB at 20Hz then be higher 2-3 dB in the mid bass, when both are claimed to be flat to 19 Hz. (Rythmik has the LV12R listed at +-2dB from 19 to 100+Hz, a 5 to 6dB flip would be outside that.)
Because the frequency response that the sub has been eq'd to at low level has almost nothing to do with its maximum output capability at various frequencies. No sub made will have maximum output at 80 Hz only 2 dB above its 20 Hz output. The vast majority of subs have double to triple the output at 80Hz than at 20 Hz, including ported subs. SVS sub are noted for having exceptionally good low frequency output compared to their mid and upper bass output when comparing them to other similar subs. For example, the PB12-NSD has nearly the same 20 Hz output as Hsu's VTF15H, yet the Hsu sub more than doubles the PB12's output above 30 Hz. This old version of the PB2000 hit 103 dB at 20 Hz, but only 108 at 80 Hz.

Any sub can be eq'd very flat at low level; again, has nothing to do with output.

Last edited by bear123; 11-14-2015 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Shift View Post
@ 108db you should "feel" it buddy, even at 10hz and duals at that. You should get 'sum' tactical feel.

I know you have a good size room which means more headroom to fill, but sitting 12' away you are basically sitting on your subs brotha.
So it looks like I'm closer to 106 maybe 107db at 10hz. It's been awhile since I looked at my last set of measurements. I use mid dampening.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:59 AM
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@Soulburner

Nice response!
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
For example, the PB12-NSD has nearly the same 20 Hz output as Hsu's VTF15H, yet the Hsu sub more than doubles the PB12's output above 30 Hz. This old version of the PB2000 hit 103 dB at 20 Hz, but only 108 at 80 Hz.
And yet no one has explained how this exactly happens. The reason is PB2000 uses a driver with high BL value and yet very heavy cone. It is the heavy cone that makes the inertia problem worse. Now why does it have a heavy cone? It uses a lot of turns of coil. This is a tricky that every company knows. But it comes with a price.


There has been discussion of whether cone mass is audible. I think it is. But from frequency response, one can actually tell if the cone mass is heavy. The sub has lower midbass output is the one with high moving mass. If one listens to enough of those and then compare that to those with lighter cone mass, it is easier to draw conclusion if the cone mass makes audible difference.
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Last edited by Rythmik; 11-14-2015 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 11-14-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
And yet no one has explained how this exactly happens. The reason is PB2000 uses a driver with high BL value and yet very heavy cone. It is the heavy cone that makes the inertia problem worse. Now why does it have a heavy cone? It uses a lot of turns of coil. This is a tricky that every company knows. But it comes with a price.
Inertia won't be a problem if BL and Mms are kept proportional to each other. The former depends on the later.

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Old 11-14-2015, 02:19 PM
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I love bass like really like it thats why i got 2 FV15HP…. My SUBS are set at about 12-1 and on my AVR is 5db, is that to hot?
the subs move like crazy… i turned my vol up to 75% on my AVR and my wife literally told me she thought we were having an earthquake because the fireplace started to rattle
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Old 11-14-2015, 02:34 PM
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^^ you want to increase the volumes on the subs so that Avr sets them into the negative range (-6 or so).
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Old 11-14-2015, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
The sub has lower midbass output is the one with high moving mass. If one listens to enough of those and then compare that to those with lighter cone mass, it is easier to draw conclusion if the cone mass makes audible difference.
What frequency range is mid bass, Brian? I keep hearing different range from different folks thanks.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:05 PM
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I'm finding a flat response from 19Hz to 105Hz or so sounds very strong without the need to run sub trim hot at all. And I listen at MV: -30 and under.

What does that mean exactly? That flat response sounds stronger than house curves or that midbass is what makes it sound strong at moderate/modest volumes? Trying to make sense of why I perceive flat response as stronger than a house curve that biases deep bass over midbass.



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Old 11-14-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post
Inertia won't be a problem if BL and Mms are kept proportional to each other. The former depends on the later.
One can increase the BL value by a shorter coil (meaning shorter winding length), or tighter magnet gap, or larger magnet. Adding more turns in voice coil means wider magnet gap.

Another effect of high mass is when Mms is high the kinetic energy of cone movement is also higher. We all know where that energy goes to.. It goes to the enclosure and then spread. You have EE background. The cone mass is modelled as an equivalent capacitor in T/S parameters. To be more precisely, the equivalent capacitor is Mms/(BL)^2. In addition, that capacitor and voice coil inductance form a LC network. We need to also keep that LC network resonace frequency the same which means while we play this scaling game on BL and Mms, our inductance cannot change or it is no longer a perfect scaling. So increasing BL by having more turns (which alwasys increase voice coil inductance) always come up short in the end. Not to mention if we make Mms 50% higher, we also needs to make enclousre weight 50% higher (or 50% denser) to be a perfect scale system, isn't it? This is because the enclosure is the one receives the reaction force from cone movement.
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Last edited by Rythmik; 11-14-2015 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:51 PM
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Adding an 18" DIY sub with my 15" Rythmik?

I have a 15' x 20' dedicated home theater room. I already have the a Rythmik 15" sealed subwoofer (F15HP) that works fantastic for music.

I'm looking for a little more oomph for movies. I'd prefer not to add two additional subs to the room, so I'm considering building an 18" Dayton Ultimax with a Crown XLS 2002 amplifier (bridged for 2100 watts).

Has anyone tried this? I'm looking more for powerful tactile bass for movies, than smooth integration for music.

Thanks in advance!

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Old 11-14-2015, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by trmoore2 View Post
I have a 15' x 20' dedicated home theater room. I already have the a Rythmik 15" sealed subwoofer (F15HP) that works fantastic for music.

I'm looking for a little more oomph for movies. I'd prefer not to add two additional subs to the room, so I'm considering building an 18" Dayton Ultimax with a Crown XLS 2002 amplifier (bridged for 2100 watts).

Has anyone tried this? I'm looking more for powerful tactile bass for movies, than smooth integration for music.

Thanks in advance!
Theres a DIY section at AVS also.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
If budegt is an issue, we have less expensive FVX15 model. It uses exactly the same enclosure and tuning of FV15HP. It also has metal cone driver.
yea, that's another option
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by trmoore2 View Post
I have a 15' x 20' dedicated home theater room. I already have the a Rythmik 15" sealed subwoofer (F15HP) that works fantastic for music.

I'm looking for a little more oomph for movies. I'd prefer not to add two additional subs to the room, so I'm considering building an 18" Dayton Ultimax with a Crown XLS 2002 amplifier (bridged for 2100 watts).

Has anyone tried this? I'm looking more for powerful tactile bass for movies, than smooth integration for music.

Thanks in advance!
If it is a replacement for the Rythmik, post in the DIY forum and you'll get lots of help.

If in addition to your Rythmik, I'd just get another F15HP.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
If it is a replacement for the Rythmik, post in the DIY forum and you'll get lots of help.

If in addition to your Rythmik, I'd just get another F15HP.
I have posted in the DIY forum, but I am hoping i can get more bass for less money by building my own. Just curious if anyone has mixed their subs? I'm not looking for perfection, just more oomph.

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Old 11-14-2015, 11:16 PM
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Then why post in this thread? Yes, you can got more SPL (I assume that is your definition of "oomph") for the dollar by building your own, and arguably comparable sound quality (though without the benefits of servo), if done properly.

Many people have mixed sub manufacturers and types. Integration is often harder but with a little effort and work with REW or similar measuring tools it can be done. It is a popular topic and has been discussed in this and other threads. Phase alignment requires either a continuous phase control like on your Rythmik and/or some sort of DSP-based solution.

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Old 11-15-2015, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
One can increase the BL value by a shorter coil (meaning shorter winding length), or tighter magnet gap, or larger magnet. Adding more turns in voice coil means wider magnet gap.

Another effect of high mass is when Mms is high the kinetic energy of cone movement is also higher. We all know where that energy goes to.. It goes to the enclosure and then spread. You have EE background. The cone mass is modelled as an equivalent capacitor in T/S parameters. To be more precisely, the equivalent capacitor is Mms/(BL)^2. In addition, that capacitor and voice coil inductance form a LC network. We need to also keep that LC network resonace frequency the same which means while we play this scaling game on BL and Mms, our inductance cannot change or it is no longer a perfect scaling. So increasing BL by having more turns (which alwasys increase voice coil inductance) always come up short in the end. Not to mention if we make Mms 50% higher, we also needs to make enclousre weight 50% higher (or 50% denser) to be a perfect scale system, isn't it? This is because the enclosure is the one receives the reaction force from cone movement.

Very well said and I get your point.

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Old 11-15-2015, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'm finding a flat response from 19Hz to 105Hz or so sounds very strong without the need to run sub trim hot at all. And I listen at MV: -30 and under.

What does that mean exactly? That flat response sounds stronger than house curves or that midbass is what makes it sound strong at moderate/modest volumes? Trying to make sense of why I perceive flat response as stronger than a house curve that biases deep bass over midbass.


Plasma, this is an excellent FR, one of the better ones that I have seen. My opinion on why this sounds so good to you especially from a mid bass standpoint, is that you appear to have very good integration with your mains around the crossover. The majority of folks, it seems to me, struggle to maintain a flat response in the 80-200 Hz region, and yours(although you are not showing out to 200), seems exceptionally good in this region. A house curve in the lower frequencies is not going to affect the impact you get from mid bass/music etc. It is simply meant to increase LFE impact on movies when played back at lower volumes.
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Old 11-15-2015, 09:39 AM
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Hi everyone- I have been looking closely at the E15HP or the FV15HPse (love that piano black finish!). I'm leaning sealed despite a large space to fill because 1) the fiance is not into a ton of base, and 2) because we are currently in a condo, so the neighbors are a factor.

I've scoured numerous threads in this forum for insight into these two subs, and everything is largely positive. So, I'm wondering if anyone has hands-on experience with either or both and is willing to give me some feedback on the two? It sounds like both are extremely clean thanks to the servo technology, but I still want some rumble/chest thump, which is why in this instance the choice between sealed vs. ported is difficult!

These two Rythmik subs, as well as two 15" subs from a certain "phonetic alphabet" competitor (alpha...echo...gamma) are the front runners, so anything to separate the 4 would be greatly appreciated!

At this point I feel like it's picking nits, and I could throw a dart and be extremely happy. I know any of these subs will be great for me, so that's kind of a great position to be in! Thanks in advance.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'm finding a flat response from 19Hz to 105Hz or so sounds very strong without the need to run sub trim hot at all. And I listen at MV: -30 and under.

What does that mean exactly? That flat response sounds stronger than house curves or that midbass is what makes it sound strong at moderate/modest volumes? Trying to make sense of why I perceive flat response as stronger than a house curve that biases deep bass over midbass.


Plasma, this is an excellent FR, one of the better ones that I have seen. My opinion on why this sounds so good to you especially from a mid bass standpoint, is that you appear to have very good integration with your mains around the crossover. The majority of folks, it seems to me, struggle to maintain a flat response in the 80-200 Hz region, and yours(although you are not showing out to 200), seems exceptionally good in this region. A house curve in the lower frequencies is not going to affect the impact you get from mid bass/music etc. It is simply meant to increase LFE impact on movies when played back at lower volumes.
Thanks... to clarify that's an LFE/sub only measure. Though the CC+sub and L+R+sub are pretty flat in this frequency range shown (80Hz crossover). Frequency response well past 120Hz is another story.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:18 AM
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Is the port made of plastic or mdf? How thick?

And what's the gray insulation like material at the end?

Just curious...
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:30 AM
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While this is based on different filters in high bass extension (not mid like in the pic you quoted), it shows CC+sub and L+R+sub to 200Hz. They are not equalized, as the PEQ in my AVR sounds bad and I have yet to upgrade to an $800 or so model with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT.
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UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Sony Core Bookshelf (SS-CS5) Side Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Xfinity X1 (CI CXD01ANI)
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Old 11-15-2015, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by adeszko View Post
Hi everyone- I have been looking closely at the E15HP or the FV15HPse (love that piano black finish!). I'm leaning sealed despite a large space to fill because 1) the fiance is not into a ton of base, and 2) because we are currently in a condo, so the neighbors are a factor.

I've scoured numerous threads in this forum for insight into these two subs, and everything is largely positive. So, I'm wondering if anyone has hands-on experience with either or both and is willing to give me some feedback on the two? It sounds like both are extremely clean thanks to the servo technology, but I still want some rumble/chest thump, which is why in this instance the choice between sealed vs. ported is difficult!

These two Rythmik subs, as well as two 15" subs from a certain "phonetic alphabet" competitor (alpha...echo...gamma) are the front runners, so anything to separate the 4 would be greatly appreciated!
I would say that there are no bad choices here, and both companies would give you great subs for your money, with the difference of course being the servo and amp controls. But in my opinion, your wife's opinion of bass and having neighbors are not factors to consider when deciding between ported or sealed. That's just going to determine the levels that you listen at. You may also want to look into Audyssey's Low Frequency Containment feature.

Get a ported sub if you want a boost in the 20-25hz region and have the space for its increased size. Get a sealed sub if you want maximum low frequency extension, and/or need your sub to be smaller. Because of the servo and other factors, there should be almost no sound quality differences between Rythmik subs above 30hz.
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Old 11-15-2015, 12:36 PM
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I'm positive I measured. It takes a lot of power down that low for it to be perceivable.
Me and you are in the same boat, with dual FV15HP's. I am dealing with a huge room and tested 105db at 12hz and 110db at 16hz (115db target).

You can tell there is pressure there, but that ultra low bass just seems to rattle a bunch of stuff. Im not sure what the kick you in the chest bass range is, but I never notice that at 10-12hz with testing.

Now dont take that to think these subs dont hit like a mutha, because they do. From 30hz to 100hz I achieve between 115db and 120db.

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Old 11-15-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by adeszko View Post
Hi everyone- I have been looking closely at the E15HP or the FV15HPse (love that piano black finish!). I'm leaning sealed despite a large space to fill because 1) the fiance is not into a ton of base, and 2) because we are currently in a condo, so the neighbors are a factor.

I've scoured numerous threads in this forum for insight into these two subs, and everything is largely positive. So, I'm wondering if anyone has hands-on experience with either or both and is willing to give me some feedback on the two?
I've owned the former and have heard the latter so if there's something you're curious about ask away. But before you do I have a question; what constitutes a "large space" for you? If you can provide the HxWxD of the entire space - not just what might be considered the viewing area - that might help make the decision for you.

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Old 11-15-2015, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Me and you are in the same boat, with dual FV15HP's. I am dealing with a huge room and tested 105db at 12hz and 110db at 16hz (115db target).

You can tell there is pressure there, but that ultra low bass just seems to rattle a bunch of stuff. Im not sure what the kick you in the chest bass range is, but I never notice that at 10-12hz with testing.

Now dont take that to think these subs dont hit like a mutha, because they do. From 30hz to 100hz I achieve between 115db and 120db.
chest thump I think is in the 100-300 mid bass range.
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Old 11-15-2015, 03:56 PM
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I've owned the former and have heard the latter so if there's something you're curious about ask away. But before you do I have a question; what constitutes a "large space" for you? If you can provide the HxWxD of the entire space - not just what might be considered the viewing area - that might help make the decision for you.
Sure, Jim. Thanks for the response! I apologize for the following description: our condo is difficult to describe! And for the record, I'm about 70% TV/Movies/Videogames and 30% music.

We are currently in a loft-style 1 bedroom, 1400 square feet condo. Our "family room," where the TV and sound system reside, is open to our kitchen and dining room. That space, in turn, is open to our bedroom as the walls do not go all the way up to the ceiling (a la loft style). The ceiling is also 13 feet high. It's a cool space to live, but NOT the ideal space for a sub.

The reason I did not include any descriptions about the space in my prior post is because this is only a temporary rental. We plan on being here only for another year and a half, before getting something larger. Thus, I don't want to choose a sub specifically for the very large, open condo that yearns for at least 2 ported beasts because I know the space will be different in the relatively near future. I would like to choose the best single sub I can moving forward- regardless of the space. Yes, I know that it is impossible to ignore the room, but I really don't want my fiance killing me in a year when I tell her we have to buy a new sub when we move.

In terms of specifics about the subs: my fiance doesn't like to watch movies too loudly (which drives me crazy; give me more volume!), so I need a sub that can give me some clean chest thumping even at moderate volumes. That pushed me towards a sealed sub, but this space pushed me towards ported. I oscillate back and forth every hour!

To wrap this overly long post up (I apologize!), the reason I have been pulled towards Rythmik is due to the "clean" sound people like you have described! Though I'm concerned the servo technology may detract from that chest thump, which- please correct me if I'm wrong- but as I understand from a previous thread where you conducted an impromptu comparison between Rythmik and SVS, you ended up with the SVS as your personal sub for that very reason?

Thanks for all the help! I'm just a guy that needs great sound from a great sub!
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Old 11-15-2015, 03:57 PM
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Seems a little high for the kick, since most subs cutoff before than. I was thinking 50-100hz range. Mine rolls off pretty good from 100-120.

65" EF9500
AV7702 MKII / Model 7125
Klipsch stuff and Rythmik stuff
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub
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