Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 742 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22231 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Yeah that doesn't surprise me in your room - it's huge. Mine is less than half the size of yours. I'm still considering the ported FV15HP due to wanting to use both subwoofers (and not wanting to integrate a sealed subwoofer with a ported one) and having lower extension. Placement options are limited though. One will be corner loaded and one will be next to a couch, which would be closer to the other corner at the front of the room. Does anyone see any issues with this?
If your room is half the size of mine I would pick up another LV12R. When I got my second FV it made a huge difference in seat to seat excitement throughout the room.

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post #22232 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
How would that output difference matter at moderate listening levels? It's not like the LV12R doesn't have a flat FR in it's operating range. Also, room size determines how much output you need.


Extension could matter; depends on several factors though (involving content and listening habits and placement/setup/calibration). How exactly do you notice the deeper extension? does it sound deeper or is it merely the tactile/rumble effect?
Well in my case my room is big and open, so I wanted more output on tap and deeper extension. I typically listen to content around -15 to -10. As far as how the deeper extension is perceived I'd say that most of the time it's felt, but once it gets to a certain point you just see the driver flapping like crazy, but get no sensation.

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post #22233 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Well in my case my room is big and open, so I wanted more output on tap and deeper extension. I typically listen to content around -15 to -10. A lot of the deeper extension is felt, but once it gets to a certain point you just see the driver flapping like crazy, but get no sensation.
In your case, it definitely makes sense (large room and loud listening levels). Though I wonder if the F15HP or 2 would be the better choice if extension is the priority. (Especially below the ports' tuning point.)

Do you leave the rumble filter off? And what extension and damping settings do you prefer for listening to movies loud like Mad Max? Do you use one or 2 ports open? Just curious.
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post #22234 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
If your room is half the size of mine I would pick up another LV12R. When I got my second FV it made a huge difference in seat to seat excitement throughout the room.
That's the way I'm leaning right now - a 2nd LV12R - it would be a lot cheaper too. But the extra extension of an FV15HP does have me wondering "what if"
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post #22235 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
In your case, it definitely makes sense (large room and loud listening levels). Though I wonder if the F15HP or 2 would be the better choice if extension is the priority. (Especially below the ports' tuning point.)

Do you leave the rumble filter off? And what extension and damping settings do you prefer for listening to movies loud like Mad Max? Do you use one or 2 ports open? Just curious.
Due to the size of my room and listening habits I don't think I would get the same experience with dual F15HP's.

Off/14hz/mid-dampening/1 port plugged

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post #22236 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 08:11 AM
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It's a few Hz below 20 Hz so I really doubt you'd notice. Room gain will probably provide as much or more, and you'll have smoother response. If you have the extra money and space now, going for the 15" makes sense if you may move to a larger space later. If not, and you still have the extra money, I will most unselfishly volunteer to accept the extra money to spare you the temptation.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #22237 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldark View Post
That's the way I'm leaning right now - a 2nd LV12R - it would be a lot cheaper too. But the extra extension of an FV15HP does have me wondering "what if"
Ah the infamous "what if" don't worry your not alone.

Display - LG 65EF9500
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post #22238 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
I currently have an L22 and have measured two room nodes (or, at least, major dips), one around 41Hz and another around 50Hz. Would adding a second sub eliminate the room nodes? Or are room nodes inherent to the room dimensions and can't be nullified?
If you have a closed, rectangular room, check out the REW room simulator (free) to check out the impact of placement and multiple subs.
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post #22239 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:07 AM
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The New LVX12 is in stock and ready to ship. We have four units in stock and more coming by mid January. Pictures and specifications are up in our website already. Introductory price is $799 shipped.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LVX12.html



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #22240 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:15 AM
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@goldark . There you go, the new lvx12.
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post #22241 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:18 AM
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Cool, congrats!

Although, IMO, you are going to be spending more time trying to explain the differences among all the various models to potential (and existing) customers. You might want to consider adding a page with a comparison table (more than the little chart of max output). It takes some time (or maybe I'm just slow) to figure out what distinguishes the various models from one another by wading through all the product pages.

Suggested columns off-the-cuff:
Model - Driver size - Vented/Sealed - Max Output @ 20 Hz - Max (min) LF corner - Amp Model - <feature column or three like LPF, Phase, etc.> - Size - Weight - Comments (e.g. paper/Al cones)

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #22242 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:19 AM
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Enrico or Brian, how does the new lvx12 compare to the lv12r or fv15hp output wise? You know this question will be asked. Thanks.

By the way, when are the FV18 and FV25 available? Very soon?

Last edited by tvuong; 12-23-2015 at 11:23 AM.
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post #22243 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Cool, congrats!

Although, IMO, you are going to be spending more time trying to explain the differences among all the various models to potential (and existing) customers. You might want to consider adding a page with a comparison table (more than the little chart of max output). It takes some time (or maybe I'm just slow) to figure out what distinguishes the various models from one another by wading through all the product pages.

Suggested columns off-the-cuff:
Model - Driver size - Vented/Sealed - Max Output @ 20 Hz - Max (min) LF corner - Amp Model - <feature column or three like LPF, Phase, etc.> - Size - Weight - Comments (e.g. paper/Al cones)
Yes, I'm working on this. Next week I will update the Subwoofer Comparison Chart and will add all models to date


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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #22244 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Enrico or Brian, how does the new lvx12 compare to the lv12r or fv15hp output wise? You know this question will be asked. Thanks.

By the way, when are the FV18 and FV25 available? Very soon?
LVX12 is +4dB compared to F12 baseline so output wise is at same level as F15HP and L22. Also LVX12 is tuned to 14Hz in one port mode and 20Hz in two ports mode.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #22245 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:44 AM
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Dual L22's or F12's for music-priority Sierra Tower-based system?

Newbie to the forum!

With respect to musicality/SQ which would be better, dual L22's or F12's?

Background: Music 80%, HT 20%. Room size is 1700 cu ft, with openings to another 1800 cu ft. Sub budget: $1000-1600. System will include (on order) Ascent RAAL towers/Sierra-2 center. Receiver: Marantz SR7009.

My first thought was dual L12's. Due to room size (3500 cu ft incl. adjacent rooms) I began leaning toward the F12's with greater output, and PEQ.

I spoke with Enrico at Rythmik. He suggested the L22's due to higher output, and because the F12's PEQ is superfluous since the SR7009 has Audyssey multieq-xt32 to handle the sub's eq.

Thanks,
Steve
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post #22246 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:51 AM
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Again, my recommendation is for dual L22s. The L22 is very musical and in terms of SQ and output at the par of the E15HP/F15HP subwoofers.



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #22247 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
@goldark . There you go, the new lvx12.
That's a very solid option. However, it's not too much less than the FVX15 right now which is on sale. Hmm.
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post #22248 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Yes, I'm working on this. Next week I will update the Subwoofer Comparison Chart and will add all models to date
<elided>
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post #22249 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbromley View Post
Newbie to the forum!

With respect to musicality/SQ which would be better, dual L22's or F12's?

Background: Music 80%, HT 20%. Room size is 1700 cu ft, with openings to another 1800 cu ft. Sub budget: $1000-1600. System will include (on order) Ascent RAAL towers/Sierra-2 center. Receiver: Marantz SR7009.

My first thought was dual L12's. Due to room size (3500 cu ft incl. adjacent rooms) I began leaning toward the F12's with greater output, and PEQ.

I spoke with Enrico at Rythmik. He suggested the L22's due to higher output, and because the F12's PEQ is superfluous since the SR7009 has Audyssey multieq-xt32 to handle the sub's eq.

Thanks,
Steve
Listen to Enrico, he knows what he's talking about. With that much room volume, and no need for the fancier amp features, a pair of L22's are likely your optimum choice for performance and reasonable cost. Their 4 dB higher output over the F12's means they should have slightly lower distortion for the same volume so (especially with the servo circuit) SQ is probably a wash.

Of course, there's always dual F25's, or quad F12's, should anyone be so daring...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #22250 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 03:06 PM
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I'm in the market for a sub. I love everything I've read about the Rythmik LV12. It's at the top of my short list along with the SVS 1000, and Martin Logan Dynamo 700. I have Martin Logan Motion 40's as my fronts and a Motion 8 center channel. They're being pushed by a Pioneer SC-81.

I like the bass from the 40's, however I'd like a lil more punch and extension. It will probably probably be 75%music and 25% home theater. My question is how much more detailed and articulate will the sealed vs ported sub be? I listen to a lot of metal, plus some jazz, classical, blues, breakbeat, and R&B if that helps any?
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post #22251 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 03:06 PM
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I'm in the market for a sub. I love everything I've read about the Rythmik LV12. It's at the top of my short list along with the SVS 1000, and Martin Logan Dynamo 700. I have Martin Logan Motion 40's as my fronts and a Motion 8 center channel. They're being pushed by a Pioneer SC-81.

I like the bass from the 40's, however I'd like a lil more punch and extension. It will probably probably be 75%music and 25% home theater. My question is how much more detailed and articulate will the sealed vs ported sub be? I listen to a lot of metal, plus some jazz, classical, blues, breakbeat, and R&B if that helps any?
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post #22252 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Yes, I'm working on this. Next week I will update the Subwoofer Comparison Chart and will add all models to date


You might want to add weight.
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post #22253 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Well in my case my room is big and open, so I wanted more output on tap and deeper extension. I typically listen to content around -15 to -10. As far as how the deeper extension is perceived I'd say that most of the time it's felt, but once it gets to a certain point you just see the driver flapping like crazy, but get no sensation.
I am looking to purchase two subs that will work well, and hopefully create a synergistic effect, with my current Klipsch Reference Series II collection. I can afford each of the three options listed below, I am not concerned about the size of these three subs, I listen to Music 2 channel plus subs (10%), Home Theater 11 channels plus subs (10%), T.V. mostly stereo to all speakers plus subs (55%) and Gaming mostly stereo signal to all speakers plus subs (25%), and I definitely listen at levels louder than the general population and want the ability to play at rock concert/club levels at times. I have always preferred bass reflex over sealed subs.

Can you please advise as to the advantages/disadvantages each of these three options have for my listening needs while giving consideration for how well you believe they would perform with my current speakers. Thanks.

In no particular order:
1) SVS PB13 Ultra
2) Power Sound Audio V3600
3) Rythmik F25

Klipsch:
4 Klipsch R-115SW powered subwoofers
1 Klipsch RF-7 II center speaker (it replaced the RC-64 II center speaker shown in the photos)
2 Klipsch RF-7 II front speakers
2 Klipsch RF-7 II side surround speakers
2 Klipsch RB-81 II front wide surround speakers
2 Klipsch RB-81 II front height surround speakers
2 Klipsch RB-81 II rear surround speakers

Klipsch: 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front-wide, height & rear surrounds), 4 R-115SW subs. Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs. ATI amplifiers: AT6005 & AT4006 Morris Kessler Signature series. Denon: AVR-X5200W. Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire. Sewell Direct Deadbolt banana plugs. SVS: sub interconnects. Blue Jeans Cables: interconnects. Mediabridge: Ultra series HDMI, Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans. Epson: 5030UBe projector. Elite: 125" AT screen.
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post #22254 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 08:23 PM
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^^ the F25 is sealed sub.
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post #22255 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 09:47 PM
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I have no experience with SVS or PSA.

Rythmik designs use a servo circuit to reduce distortion and better control the drivers. This can provide lower frequency response and higher output with lower distortion than competing (open-loop) designs. In particular, Rythmik's servo can compensate for both short term dynamic distortion caused by amplifier or the nonlinear EM field of the voice coil, and compensate thermal distortion that some other servo systems cannot. The servo essentially makes the amplifier look like it has much lower output impedance (it does, in fact) and thus acts like a much more powerful amplifier (hand waving, sorry).

Less technically, the cone distorts less, and starts and stops with much less over/undershoot and ringing, so you get much cleaner bass. It is hard to describe how much better your whole system sounds with a clean subwoofer; hearing is believing.

After researching and building various subs over thirty years ago, I built a servo design very similar to the design used by Rythmik (I should have patented it, but what does a snot-nosed college kid know?) I worked for a couple of high-end audio stores so had access to many SOTA subs of the day for comparison. It blew away all the other subs in the stores where I worked and I made a tidy pile of spending money making others for a while until I graduated.

Fast forward to about five or ten years ago when I decided to rebuild my main stereo system. Some listening and a lot of research led me to Rythmik along with a few other subs in the $3k to $5k range (had not realized how prices had risen!) Some discussion with Brian Ding (the man behind Rythmik, and a fellow EE with similar day job) led me to order a couple. They matched, and often overmatched, subs costing two to three times their price.

Chances are most folk will not really notice the difference, and there are a lot of good subs around these days (unlike back then), but I think Rythmik represents leading-edge performance and value.

IME/IMO - Don
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post #22256 of 25372 Old 12-23-2015, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
You might want to add weight.

And the driver size, and number of them.
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post #22257 of 25372 Old 12-24-2015, 06:51 AM
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Merry Christmas everyone!

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #22258 of 25372 Old 12-24-2015, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ the F25 is sealed sub.
Thanks. Saw that last night after I posted. I have removed it from my final list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I have no experience with SVS or PSA.

Rythmik designs use a servo circuit to reduce distortion and better control the drivers. This can provide lower frequency response and higher output with lower distortion than competing (open-loop) designs. In particular, Rythmik's servo can compensate for both short term dynamic distortion caused by amplifier or the nonlinear EM field of the voice coil, and compensate thermal distortion that some other servo systems cannot. The servo essentially makes the amplifier look like it has much lower output impedance (it does, in fact) and thus acts like a much more powerful amplifier (hand waving, sorry).

Less technically, the cone distorts less, and starts and stops with much less over/undershoot and ringing, so you get much cleaner bass. It is hard to describe how much better your whole system sounds with a clean subwoofer; hearing is believing.

After researching and building various subs over thirty years ago, I built a servo design very similar to the design used by Rythmik (I should have patented it, but what does a snot-nosed college kid know?) I worked for a couple of high-end audio stores so had access to many SOTA subs of the day for comparison. It blew away all the other subs in the stores where I worked and I made a tidy pile of spending money making others for a while until I graduated.

Fast forward to about five or ten years ago when I decided to rebuild my main stereo system. Some listening and a lot of research led me to Rythmik along with a few other subs in the $3k to $5k range (had not realized how prices had risen!) Some discussion with Brian Ding (the man behind Rythmik, and a fellow EE with similar day job) led me to order a couple. They matched, and often overmatched, subs costing two to three times their price.

Chances are most folk will not really notice the difference, and there are a lot of good subs around these days (unlike back then), but I think Rythmik represents leading-edge performance and value.

IME/IMO - Don
Sorry, you missed out on the patent!

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Merry Christmas everyone!
Thanks. Hope you and the family have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year as well!

Klipsch: 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front-wide, height & rear surrounds), 4 R-115SW subs. Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs. ATI amplifiers: AT6005 & AT4006 Morris Kessler Signature series. Denon: AVR-X5200W. Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire. Sewell Direct Deadbolt banana plugs. SVS: sub interconnects. Blue Jeans Cables: interconnects. Mediabridge: Ultra series HDMI, Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans. Epson: 5030UBe projector. Elite: 125" AT screen.
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post #22259 of 25372 Old 12-24-2015, 07:18 AM
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You might want to add weight.
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
And the driver size, and number of them.
Got this. Thanks!!
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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post #22260 of 25372 Old 12-24-2015, 07:19 AM
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Merry Christmas



Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio
Media Room: Polk LSiM705s, LSiM706C, LSiM703s | Rythmik F12SE (x2) | Marantz SR7008 | Parasound Halo P5 | Emotiva XPA-3 & XPA-200 | Oppo 105D | Sony HW40ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Duet | 27" iMac|
Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz NR1606 | Emotiva XPA-200 Gen 2 | Samsung UN50JU6500 |
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub



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