Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 745 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I am having 4 matching surrounds coming that can go down to 80hz which allows me to connect subs with line in. I am planning to turn off Aud, measure subs, then play with the phase knob(s) to get the flattest FR for the 2 subs. Then run Aud cal and adjust with sub distances tweak if needed to flat out the xover region with my speakers.
Looking at the phase knob, it can be varied from 0-16ms. Am I safe to assume 4ms=9 O'clock position and 12ms=3 O'clock position? Also is 1ms~1 foot?

Man I honestly don't know about the phase knob. Maybe @enricoclaudio or @Rythmik can chime in and shed some light on it? When I was auditioning the 3rd FV a while back and was trying to get it in phase with the front two subs I had a hard time with this knob and knowing what the true value really was based on position.

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Old 12-28-2015, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
So, that's basically it in a nutshell then.

Which is why I was told the feet don't make a difference either way on carpet.
I left the feet off of my LV12R's and FV15HP's. It makes them much easier to move around on carpet and I don't think you have to worry about messing up the finish on the black matte or black oak. Now the piano finish that's another story....

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Old 12-28-2015, 11:07 AM
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Where my subs are sitting now, I have a 5db dip at ~ 80hz and a null around 110hz. I always want to try the phase knob pre-Audyssey but couldn't as my current surrounds rolls off at 150hz. I am thinking with where the subs are sitting now, adjusting the phase knob(s) (with Aud turned off) makes Audyssey thinks they sit elsewhere (with flatter FR; hopefully without that dip and null) and therefore, does not have to eq much during the calibration process.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:13 AM
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I left the feet off of my LV12R's and FV15HP's. It makes them much easier to move around on carpet and I don't think you have to worry about messing up the finish on the black matte or black oak. Now the piano finish that's another story....
Yeah it's definitely easier to move without feet on carpet. I couldn't get it to budge with the feet on. In fact, Brian told me not to attempt moving it with feet attached unless furniture sliders are used. Otherwise, the feet could be damaged.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:15 AM
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IIRC the phase control is linear from 0 to 180 degrees (0 to 16 ms). The velocity of sound waves in dry air at sea level and room temp (Standard conditions) is about 1127 feet/second, or roughly 1 foot per ms. If I did the math right, 16 ms is 180 degrees at 31.25 Hz (1/32 ms = 31.25 Hz).

Note that the delay is added to whatever other delays are in the system, including amplifier latency (negligible), processing for room correction (can be significant), and phase shift in the crossovers (can be very significant). Probably best to not get hung up on the numbers. The goal is to get the sub and mains in phase at the MLP so the actual delay may have little to do with their physical distance.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:17 AM
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@DonH50

English Don.

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Old 12-28-2015, 11:19 AM
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I use the phase control at 180 deg/10ms on my LV12R since my AVR doesn't take care of it automatically (either via sw phase setting on AVR or sw dist on AVR). Otherwise, I get huge nulls at my 80Hz crossover point, like with CC+sub or L+R+sub. I could just use the AVR's sw phase setting (has two options, normal and reverse), but then I'd have to manually flip it after each YPAO run.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Sony Core Bookshelf (SS-CS5) Side Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
IIRC the phase control is linear from 0 to 180 degrees (0 to 16 ms). The velocity of sound waves in dry air at sea level and room temp (Standard conditions) is about 1127 feet/second, or roughly 1 foot per ms. If I did the math right, 16 ms is 180 degrees at 31.25 Hz (1/32 ms = 31.25 Hz).

Note that the delay is added to whatever other delays are in the system, including amplifier latency (negligible), processing for room correction (can be significant), and phase shift in the crossovers (can be very significant). Probably best to not get hung up on the numbers. The goal is to get the sub and mains in phase at the MLP so the actual delay may have little to do with their physical distance.

HTH - Don
REW + sw dist tweak are great tools for getting integration right. It should also make setting the phase control a more straightforward process, either adjust and measure and re-adjust and re-measure or use the RTA tool.

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Old 12-28-2015, 11:27 AM
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@DonH50

English Don.
I'm an engineer. English is a second or third language.

Play a tone at the crossover frequency and adjust the knob until the sound is loudest, or do the same with an SPL meter, or (best) measure the response using REW or similar. Don't worry about where the knob ends up.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:36 AM
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Even if the phase adjustment is linear, my plan is to adjust the phase on one sub and leave the other as constant. With REW, it is easy to see if they compliment each other pre-audyssey. Then Aud will take care the rest. Again, the plan is not having Aud doing too much eq.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:36 AM
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I'm an engineer. English is a second or third language.

Play a tone at the crossover frequency and adjust the knob until the sound is loudest, or do the same with an SPL meter, or (best) measure the response using REW or similar. Don't worry about where the knob ends up.
Haha I know you are, so I had to mess with you. Your posts are always very informative.

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Old 12-28-2015, 12:17 PM
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Even if the phase adjustment is linear, my plan is to adjust the phase on one sub and leave the other as constant. With REW, it is easy to see if they compliment each other pre-audyssey. Then Aud will take care the rest. Again, the plan is not having Aud doing too much eq.
You'll need to delay the sub closer to you to prevent a non-causal filter response. Predicting the future is still somewhat beyond most AVRs. That is, leave the knob at "0" on the sub furthest away, and increase the delay on the closer one.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:18 PM
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Haha I know you are, so I had to mess with you. Your posts are always very informative.
Thanks.

Wasn't "English Don" a shooter in some old western movie? Don't make me pull out my revolver...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:23 PM
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You'll need to delay the sub closer to you to prevent a non-causal filter response. Predicting the future is still somewhat beyond most AVRs. That is, leave the knob at "0" on the sub furthest away, and increase the delay on the closer one.
They are both equidistant to me. My left sub has a better FR, so I am planning to adjust the phase on the right sub such that the combined FR is flatter.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I am having 4 matching surrounds coming that can go down to 80hz which allows me to connect subs with line in. I am planning to turn off Aud, measure subs, then play with the phase knob(s) to get the flattest FR for the 2 subs. Then run Aud cal and adjust with sub distances tweak if needed to flat out the xover region with my speakers.
Looking at the phase knob, it can be varied from 0-16ms. Am I safe to assume 4ms=9 O'clock position and 12ms=3 O'clock position? Also is 1ms~1 foot?

10 o'clock for 4ms and 3 o'clock for 12ms.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:25 PM
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Thanks.

Wasn't "English Don" a shooter in some old western movie? Don't make me pull out my revolver...
Sounds about right.

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Old 12-28-2015, 12:29 PM
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10 o'clock for 4ms and 3 o'clock for 12ms.
Thanks Brian.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:29 PM
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Thanks.

Wasn't "English Don" a shooter in some old western movie? Don't make me pull out my revolver...


English Bob, Unforgiven?
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:42 PM
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What? Finally moving away from high dampening? I think there is a big difference between low and high dampening. That full body bass is definitely more pronounced in low. It's a lot tighter when you move to mid or high (shocker ). I've spent a lot of time experimenting with all of them. Here is an old graph that shows all three in my room. Low has an output advantage from just under 20hz to just over 40hz. I now use line in, but I sold my measuring gear, so I don't have a graph on what that looks like.
So far, for movie, lo D is great but too boomy for music as compared to hi D. Med D might be the answer for both.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:03 PM
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So far, for movie, lo D is great but too boomy for music as compared to hi D. Med D might be the answer for both.
I have found that with low damping, giving the sub more breathing room from the wall or corner sounds cleaner, smoother, and clearer. In other words, the tone of the bass improves and it just sounds better overall. For me, that meant a distance of about 8 inches from the mid wall placement, vs. the minimum recommended distance of about 3-4 inches.

Switching to mid damping is also a great compromise between low and high damping.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:20 PM
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So far, for movie, lo D is great but too boomy for music as compared to hi D. Med D might be the answer for both.
Mid has been a great compromise for me so far and to my ears it's the best. I get a little bit better extension versus low. I lose a little bit of headroom obviously, but this isn't really an issue since I typically don't go past -10 on the volume.

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Old 12-29-2015, 03:43 AM
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I just watched Edge of Tomorrow (EoT)...

Wow, the first 60 seconds of that movie scared my wife upstairs in the Den over my theater...

I played it at about -15, and still WoW.....

My F25s didn't break a sweat.

The good news is the sound is like nothing I've ever heard.

The bad news is it shakes the heck out of my projector blurring the image considerably. Between the sound and the image blurring you feel like you might be having a stroke!!

I'm now trying to minimize my projector shake. Any suggestions are most welcome.
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Last edited by Cain; 12-29-2015 at 03:56 AM.
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:30 AM
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Just for fun, JT. Edge of Tomorrow at reference MV with +6db subs hot. There was port chuffing but it was not bad. No bad sound was heard at all Again, look at how fast Rythmik puts a brake on the driver. Sorry for the crappy phone video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8prrwqwhk0...20hot.MOV?dl=0
Whoah!!
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:38 AM
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English Bob, Unforgiven?

My favorite Clint Eastwood western, a fine movie.
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:43 AM
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Whoah!!
The excursion is much more visible with the silver cones. Ah my old Infinity's those were great speakers for the cost.


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Old 12-29-2015, 07:07 AM
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The excursion is much more visible with the silver cones. Ah my old Infinity's those were great speakers for the cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFkRgCSIaoI
WOW!! What were your settings, volume and sub level, etc.???
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Old 12-29-2015, 07:09 AM
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Is the LV12R driver high excursion?

Says so here:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R_features.html#driver

But I remember posts saying it wasn't but the L12 and L22 were. Also, it appears the new LVX12 is.
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Old 12-29-2015, 07:18 AM
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WOW!! What were your settings, volume and sub level, etc.???
If I recall dampening was set to low and one port plugged. Subs were 6db hot and volume was only at -15.
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Old 12-29-2015, 12:24 PM
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Ah, Unforgiven, and not a Don after all!

I should play with my Q settings again just for fun, but have had zero time for tweaking lately (and little time for listening, alas).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Old 12-30-2015, 12:30 PM
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OK, good news. Love my new F25 Subs.

Bad news they shake my projector.

My projector is currently connected to a Chief arm that is mounted to the rear wall of my Theater. the subs are shaking the heck out of my rear wall.

Thoughts? suggestions??
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