Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 754 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22591 of 26334 Old 01-20-2016, 08:03 PM
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The F12 has more amplifier features. It is also a sealed design. I went with the F12 originally and recently bought another pair based on Brian's and Enrico's experience and knowledge of my system and listening experience and habits. I like having the best, or at least the best I can afford, and the F12 is a perfect fit to my room (I do not need larger). My guess is you would hear little difference between the LV12R and F12 but the F12 will play just a little deeper and sound a hair better.

What is your primary application (music, what type, movies, ditto?), listening distance, room size, other components, etc.?

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post #22592 of 26334 Old 01-20-2016, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The F12 has more amplifier features. It is also a sealed design. I went with the F12 originally and recently bought another pair based on Brian's and Enrico's experience and knowledge of my system and listening experience and habits. I like having the best, or at least the best I can afford, and the F12 is a perfect fit to my room (I do not need larger). My guess is you would hear little difference between the LV12R and F12 but the F12 will play just a little deeper and sound a hair better.

What is your primary application (music, what type, movies, ditto?), listening distance, room size, other components, etc.?

IMO - Don
My room is about 14 x about 30(living room opens to a small dining on one side and a small sun room on the other side). I'm in an apartment, hoping to buy in the next year to three. I'm about 10' from my tv and speakers, depending on seating. As for movies, mostly action, some sci fi, drama, and horror.

My favorite music is metal, but listen to a lot of jazz, classical, classic rock, breakbeats, acoustic, and old R&B.
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post #22593 of 26334 Old 01-20-2016, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
Yes. I would contact Brian or Enrico at Rythmik, I'm sure they'll take good care of you, and please report back when you've got the issue resolved.


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This was the problem. all 4 spiked feet were unable to completely screw into the bottom of the sub so when the heavy bass hits it gets pushed back and forth rattling like hell. so what i did was remove them and apply ''3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil'' to the screw rings then they went in completely without any issues at all. simple fix to what seemed like a big problem. Brian is on point with the support you have to respect that guy.
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post #22594 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 03:30 AM
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^^ glad to hear it was a simple fix. It looks like your sub is on carpet, is there a reason you can't just have the sub sit on carpet without the feet? I don't use feet at all.
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post #22595 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
This was the problem. all 4 spiked feet were unable to completely screw into the bottom of the sub so when the heavy bass hits it gets pushed back and forth rattling like hell. so what i did was remove them and apply ''3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil'' to the screw rings then they went in completely without any issues at all. simple fix to what seemed like a big problem. Brian is on point with the support you have to respect that guy.
Good deal.
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post #22596 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
This was the problem. all 4 spiked feet were unable to completely screw into the bottom of the sub so when the heavy bass hits it gets pushed back and forth rattling like hell. so what i did was remove them and apply ''3-IN-ONE Multi-Purpose Oil'' to the screw rings then they went in completely without any issues at all. simple fix to what seemed like a big problem. Brian is on point with the support you have to respect that guy.

Getting four support cones or spikes to all be at exactly the right height in relationship to each other (to disallow the enclosure from "rocking") is one reason why some prefer to use only three---two at the front (because of the greater weight/mass being there from the woofers baffle mounting, though it's motor---the greatest contributor to the drivers mass---is located somewhere near the middle of the depth of the enclosure) and one at the rear. If the threaded stud in each cone supplied with the Rythmik sub will complete unscrew, you can remove a stud from one cone and place it in the middle of the back edge of your enclosure, in place of one at each back corner. See if you prefer the 3-cone arrangement to the 4.

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post #22597 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 06:15 AM
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^^ glad to hear it was a simple fix. It looks like your sub is on carpet, is there a reason you can't just have the sub sit on carpet without the feet? I don't use feet at all.
The stupid floor isn't completely even... even after it was done over again so i had no choice but to put some feet on it.

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post #22598 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
Getting four support cones or spikes to all be at exactly the right height in relationship to each other (to disallow the enclosure from "rocking") is one reason why some prefer to use only three---two at the front (because of the greater weight/mass being there from the woofers baffle mounting, though it's motor---the greatest contributor to the drivers mass---is located somewhere near the middle of the depth of the enclosure) and one at the rear. If the threaded stud in each cone supplied with the Rythmik sub will complete unscrew, you can remove a stud from one cone and place it in the middle of the back edge of your enclosure, in place of one at each back corner. See if you prefer the 3-cone arrangement to the 4.
See but I'm so crazy that i have to have 4 feet on the sub and it has to be as even on the floor as possible no matter how long it takes i have to have that way.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
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Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #22599 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 08:09 AM
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Three feet will always be stable; four are not in general. You'd be better off following BDP24's advice. There's a reason Martians use tripodal structures.
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post #22600 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ glad to hear it was a simple fix. It looks like your sub is on carpet, is there a reason you can't just have the sub sit on carpet without the feet? I don't use feet at all.
I don't either, though when running loud REW sweeps (90dB+) it does shake/rattle a bit. At 100dB+, it shakes/rattles like crazy. (As does the whole room/floor). Though I don't listen at these levels so it's fine during movies.
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post #22601 of 26334 Old 01-21-2016, 11:16 PM
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^^ me too. It just that I couldn't before with surrounds (in wall) that need a 150hz xover. The bass is punchier with line in, it's hard to describe. The biggest improvement from using all of the same speakers (7) crossing them all at 90hz is that I can hear a much wider bass spectrum spreading around my entire room. For example, I was rewatching Mad Max Fury Road the other night and I can hear/feel the bass from the back left of the room where the action was even though my subs are up front. This really surprised me as I didn't feel that way with the in wall surrounds. The dynamic of all 7 HE speakers gives me a much better experience all around.
Try the 24db slope setting. I bet you'll like a steeper slope better, as you're still getting a lot of output at 200hz.

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post #22602 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward Chen View Post
I have a FV15HP use IsoAcoustic iso-L8R430 two set as stand recently, much improve for clear sound and quaility.
I believe the stand is way too high might cause risks of supporting subs' weight.

Last edited by jimchao; 01-22-2016 at 05:20 AM.
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post #22603 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 05:28 AM
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Try the 24db slope setting. I bet you'll like a steeper slope better, as you're still getting a lot of output at 200hz.
You think I have lot of output still at 200hz with line-in? I will try the 80hz/24db setting. Thanks.
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post #22604 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 06:33 AM
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You think I have lot of output still at 200hz with line-in?
Only if the crossover in your AVR is set that high. If you have it at 80Hz you're getting absolutely no output at 200Hz.

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post #22605 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 06:56 AM
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Only if the crossover in your AVR is set that high. If you have it at 80Hz you're getting absolutely no output at 200Hz.
Makes sense. I too am using line-in, so my subs start to roll-off at 90hz. I have my crossover in the AVR set to 90hz. I wonder if I should increase it to 100hz since there is still output there it's just rapidly decreasing?

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post #22606 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 07:15 AM
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I think Soulburner was trying to say I still have lot of output at 200hz, so there will be some overlapping hz around the xover region whether it's 80, 90, 100, or 150hz which is why he suggested the 24db slope to stop the leaking bass over to the speaker region.
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post #22607 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I think Soulburner was trying to say I still have lot of output at 200hz, so there will be some overlapping hz around the xover region whether it's 80, 90, 100, or 150hz which is why he suggested the 24db slope to stop the leaking bass over to the speaker region.
If you have the crossover set relatively high - say 100Hz - and are using the default 12dB you're down the full 12dB by 200Hz, making that output completely inaudible. The only way you would have anything you could hear at 200Hz would be if the crossover was set for 150Hz, and even that would probably be imperceptible.

I played around with the 24dB setting myself and under certain circumstances I actually liked the way it 'cleaned up' the crossover region (which I suspect is what he was alluding to). That seemed to be mostly with sealed speakers though; if they were ported things tended to sound a bit thin for my liking. YMMV.

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post #22608 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I think Soulburner was trying to say I still have lot of output at 200hz, so there will be some overlapping hz around the xover region whether it's 80, 90, 100, or 150hz which is why he suggested the 24db slope to stop the leaking bass over to the speaker region.
I think I have mine set to a 12db slope, so a more gradual roll-off. If Jim is right and it's a hard stop after that frequency you have in AVR it might not matter what slope you have selected at least for your subs.

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post #22609 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 08:32 AM
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I think I have mine set to a 12db slope, so a more gradual roll-off. If Jim is right and it's a hard stop after that frequency you have in AVR it might not matter what slope you have selected at least for your subs.
It's definitely not a hard stop. No matter where you set a crossover - AVR, subwoofer, EQ - it will always be a roll-off. Could be 12dB or 24dB per octave, and perhaps something else I suppose, but it's never just a 'fall off the cliff' type of thing. Sorry if that's what it sounded like I was saying.

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post #22610 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
It's definitely not a hard stop. No matter where you set a crossover - AVR, subwoofer, EQ - it will always be a roll-off. Could be 12dB or 24dB per octave, and perhaps something else I suppose, but it's never just a 'fall off the cliff' type of thing. Sorry if that's what it sounded like I was saying.
Jim thanks for clearing that up for me.

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post #22611 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 08:48 AM
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^^ yeah, there is always a leak over the xover region. The 24db helps lessen that leak. I can even have a 36 or 48db slope using bass management from jriver which also allows me to control the slope on both end: speakers and subs.
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post #22612 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Three feet will always be stable; four are not in general. You'd be better off following BDP24's advice. There's a reason Martians use tripodal structures.
Martians and ProJect whose turntables use three adjustable feet to level the deck.

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post #22613 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 10:07 AM
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Martians and ProJect whose turntables use three adjustable feet to level the deck.

As well as some other tables, such as my Townshend Rock. I believe the Oracle Delphi does as well, and plenty of others. Three makes much more sense than four; even suspended tables with four feet use three springs in their suspension. The Acoustic Research, Linn Sondek, and almost all other suspended-subchassis tables except the SOTA.
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I just received my new E15 w/ 550w amp option. I started a thread asking for recommendations and everyone was very helpful. Even though there are so many great options out there the rythmik just seemed like the best fit for me. I won't be giving any detailed reviews just yet since there are so many options to dial it in. It was immediately obvious, however, that the E15 is very detailed and musical and easily bests my Epik Legend in those departments. I opted for the matte black option and though it is fairly utilitarion it isnt offensive in any way. A nice satin paint job would be a great option though for those who don't want to splurge for the piano black.

For music (i will use my Marantz AVR w/ XT32 for movies) i am only using a Belles 22A line preamp and Emerald Physics 100.2SE power amp and no base management. My intentions are to crossover the sub w/ the Salk Songtowers natural rolloff point in the low 40hz to high 30hz range. I have begun the setup but am far from really dialing it in. As of right now my settings are:

Damping: Hi
Ext: i'm trying 20hz and 14hz
Line in Low Pass: 50hz/24 but i've heard that 80hz/24 may be better w/ speakers that have 5" woofers
Crossover: approx. 40hz
Volume: 1/2
Phase: 180, i played a 40hz test tone w/ just the sub playing and it sounded loudest near 180... is this a good way to set it?
Rumble Filter: On

PEQ - Using my SPL meter the response is still down a little bit from 20hz to 25hz
20HZ
Max (not sure exactly what the minimum to maximum bandwidth does?)
+3db

I've placed the sub in the front right corner about 3 feet behind the baffle of my speaker.

What i've concluded is i've got a little dip from 20-25hz and peaks at 45hz and 60hz (i may have to adjust my songtowers some to alleviate the peaks). I can't move my seating position much but the big null is about 3-5 feet in front of me. The ideal spot may be back another 2 feet but that is impossible due to a half wall that seperates the living room from entryway

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I have yet to send Brian an email but will be doing so soon.

Thanks,

Joe
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post #22615 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 10:22 AM
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As well as some other tables, such as my Townshend Rock. I believe the Oracle Delphi does as well, and plenty of others. Three makes much more sense than four; even suspended tables with four feet use three springs in their suspension. The Acoustic Research, Linn Sondek, and almost all other suspended-subchassis tables except the SOTA.
Yes, many TT's, including my old Linn clone, but Martians were more fun. To me anyway, and what else matters?

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post #22616 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by joegator81 View Post
I just received my new E15 w/ 550w amp option. I started a thread asking for recommendations and everyone was very helpful. Even though there are so many great options out there the rythmik just seemed like the best fit for me. I won't be giving any detailed reviews just yet since there are so many options to dial it in. It was immediately obvious, however, that the E15 is very detailed and musical and easily bests my Epik Legend in those departments. I opted for the matte black option and though it is fairly utilitarion it isnt offensive in any way. A nice satin paint job would be a great option though for those who don't want to splurge for the piano black.

For music (i will use my Marantz AVR w/ XT32 for movies) i am only using a Belles 22A line preamp and Emerald Physics 100.2SE power amp and no base management. My intentions are to crossover the sub w/ the Salk Songtowers natural rolloff point in the low 40hz to high 30hz range. I have begun the setup but am far from really dialing it in. As of right now my settings are:

Damping: Hi
Ext: i'm trying 20hz and 14hz
Line in Low Pass: 50hz/24 but i've heard that 80hz/24 may be better w/ speakers that have 5" woofers
Crossover: approx. 40hz
Volume: 1/2
Phase: 180, i played a 40hz test tone w/ just the sub playing and it sounded loudest near 180... is this a good way to set it?
Rumble Filter: On

PEQ - Using my SPL meter the response is still down a little bit from 20hz to 25hz
20HZ
Max (not sure exactly what the minimum to maximum bandwidth does?)
+3db

I've placed the sub in the front right corner about 3 feet behind the baffle of my speaker.

What i've concluded is i've got a little dip from 20-25hz and peaks at 45hz and 60hz (i may have to adjust my songtowers some to alleviate the peaks). I can't move my seating position much but the big null is about 3-5 feet in front of me. The ideal spot may be back another 2 feet but that is impossible due to a half wall that seperates the living room from entryway

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I have yet to send Brian an email but will be doing so soon.

Thanks,

Joe
There is a post describing how to set up for an AVR -- search or somebody will link it I'm sure (I need to just bookmark it).

Why aren't you using LFE in and letting the AVR handle the phase and crossover? More accurate than using an SPL meter let alone ears for this.

I would use 80 Hz for those speakers. I would also choose 14 Hz extension for starters. Setting the phase by playing a test tone at the crossover frequency is not unreasonable though I would let the AVR do it. Placing the SPL meter at the listening position (on a tripod) and playing the test tone will get you in the ballpark.

Be aware that inexpensive SPL meters typically have only C weighting which rolls off below 30 Hz. You can buy a better (albeit much more expensive) meter, use a cal file (are a few on the net), or invest in a calibrated mic (~$100) and go down the measurement (e.g. REW) rabbit hole.

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post #22617 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 10:36 AM
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There is a post describing how to set up for an AVR -- search or somebody will link it I'm sure (I need to just bookmark it).

Why aren't you using LFE in and letting the AVR handle the phase and crossover? More accurate than using an SPL meter let alone ears for this.

I would use 80 Hz for those speakers. I would also choose 14 Hz extension for starters. Setting the phase by playing a test tone at the crossover frequency is not unreasonable though I would let the AVR do it. Placing the SPL meter at the listening position (on a tripod) and playing the test tone will get you in the ballpark.

Be aware that inexpensive SPL meters typically have only C weighting which rolls off below 30 Hz. You can buy a better (albeit much more expensive) meter, use a cal file (are a few on the net), or invest in a calibrated mic (~$100) and go down the measurement (e.g. REW) rabbit hole.
This explains so much. I'm going to have to adjust by ear then until i get REW up and running.

I don't use my AVR for music. I have a really nice analog preamp that i enjoy. It sounds better than the AVR even if though it doesnt allow me to correct for room response. I'm going to stick with it come what may.
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post #22618 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 11:12 AM
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Regarding LPFs on the sub (or elsewhere, OTHER THAN THE AVR), keep in mind that the sub only measure (LFE channel) in REW doesn't show the LPF applied by the AVR's crossover. So, if you see too much output to 200Hz (or 300Hz or whatever) that doesn't mean after your AVR applies the LPF portion of the crossover to the sub pre-out (bass management signal) that all that output past 80Hz or whatever is actually going to the sub for bass management. It only shows what the LFE channel looks like. To see the bass management, you'd have to take a L+R+sub or CC+sub measurement with the LCRs unplugged from AVR (or ext amp off if applicable).

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Sony Core Bookshelf (SS-CS5) Side Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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post #22619 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 11:15 AM
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Sorry, I skimmed too fast, comes from posting on the job waiting for tests to finish. So are you using the high-pass output from the sub or running the SongTowers full range? If I read right you are running your mains full-range. I have done that but much prefer a crossover to keep the really deep stuff from the mains, letting the sub do its job. Most (vast majority) of speakers distort heavily when presented with large signals (music or movies) below their cutoff and you waste a lot of amplifier headroom. LF signals are often 10 to 20 dB louder than midrange signals (look up loudness curves or Fletcher-Munson on Wikipedia). It is also rare that the main speakers are positioned for the best bass response in the room, and running everything together makes for a complex tuning exercise to avoid peaks and valleys with the room (reflected sound) and other speakers all interacting. An inexpensive crossover I used for years is the little dbx 223, an old-school professional analog crossover. About $200 from Sweetwater Sound etc. You may be surprised how much cleaner the sound is when the mains don't have to work so hard.

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post #22620 of 26334 Old 01-22-2016, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
To see the bass management, you'd have to take a L+R+sub or CC+sub measurement with the LCRs unplugged from AVR (or ext amp off if applicable).
You can just set speakers to small to measure C+ sub, or any 'small' speaker + sub without unplugging anything.
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