Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 759 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22741 of 23582 Old 01-30-2016, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
I wonder if i can use PEQ to smooth out the range from 55hz - 70hz
Rarely can you pull up a dip, because more often than not those are due to room interactions that no amount of boost can overcome. Most people use the PEQ to draw down a peak. There's no harm in trying though.

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post #22742 of 23582 Old 01-31-2016, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Rarely can you pull up a dip, because more often than not those are due to room interactions that no amount of boost can overcome. Most people use the PEQ to draw down a peak. There's no harm in trying though.
No i used it to reduce the 55hz peak i had and then smooth out the rest with REW and a house curve. it worked really well. too bad the FV15HP doesn't have a PEQ screen where we can reduce two specific frequency's at once.

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post #22743 of 23582 Old 01-31-2016, 10:14 AM
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It's a single-band PEQ so not sure reducing two frequencies at once is in the cards unless they are very close (and thus treated as one). I have zero desire for a readout screen on my sub but that's just me... Don't want to pay for it, don't want something else to wear out or break, especially something I'd use very rarely, and prefer to use other measurement systems to dial things in.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #22744 of 23582 Old 01-31-2016, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'm not too familiar with how mid bass modules are integrated with the mains and regular subs, but I would use a combination of REW, your ears, and Audyssey on your AVR for best results.

Can you or someone else explain to me how a mid bass module is integrated into a typical 5.1 setup?
I'm not sure I know how that works exactly.
The FM8s are daisy chained with each their E15HP, a pair in each front corner. E15HP lowpass set at 50 Hz/24dB and FM8 high pass set at 50 hz. FM8 lowpass set at 200 Hz/24dB.

I have now been playing around with different AVR settings for the last month or so.
I currently have the center speaker crossed at at 80 hz and the mains at 200 hz for 7.1 movies.
This works pretty well except for musicals and other vocal heavy blu-rays.

However, I have changed the settings for 2 CH music (there is a special setting for that on my Denon X5200W).
Here, I have set crossover to 60 hz, effectively eliminating the use of my FM8s.
The reason is that the stereo soundstage collapsed with the 200 Hz setting, since the frequencies below 200 Hz effectively were played in mono as the same signal was fed to each FM8. I tried setting 80 Hz, but that also collapsed the soundstage, just not so much.
I really need a processor able to manage stereo subs...!

For the same reasons, I set the center speaker to 80 Hz, to avoid problems when not in the centerseat, which wil be the only place were a phantom sub 200 Hz centerspeaker would be played correctly. I haven't tested that part a whole lot yet, though.

Anyone else crossing high and experiencing the same?

cheers,
Jacob
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post #22745 of 23582 Old 01-31-2016, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
No i used it to reduce the 55hz peak i had and then smooth out the rest with REW and a house curve. it worked really well. too bad the FV15HP doesn't have a PEQ screen where we can reduce two specific frequency's at once.
What is the benefit of using the FV15HP PEQ, which is in the analogue domain, to smooth a single peak, as opposed to letting an EQ in the digital domain take care of everything (like Audyssey etc)?

Cheers,
Jacob
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post #22746 of 23582 Old 02-01-2016, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
What is the benefit of using the FV15HP PEQ, which is in the analogue domain, to smooth a single peak, as opposed to letting an EQ in the digital domain take care of everything (like Audyssey etc)?
So long as the peak is leveled out, what difference does it make where it occurred? I'm not being antagonistic when I ask that, just curious as to why it would be germane. I'm only interested in what the output sounds like when it hits my ears, not where it was adjusted.

With regards to the PEQ itself... not everyone has a sound processor with an auto-EQ system like Audyseey, YPAO, MCACC, etc. In the two channel world very few people have that in their electronics chain, and even if they do some folks just flat out don't like using them because it alters the sound in a way they aren't comfortable with. In that case, the PEQ gives them the ability to tailor the sound manually.

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post #22747 of 23582 Old 02-01-2016, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
What is the benefit of using the FV15HP PEQ, which is in the analogue domain, to smooth a single peak, as opposed to letting an EQ in the digital domain take care of everything (like Audyssey etc)?

Cheers,
Jacob
I read somewhere that by using PEQ to smooth
A peak more Audyssey resources (which are limited)
Could be used (applied) to further correct other
Issues more effectively. Hopefully that makes sense.

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post #22748 of 23582 Old 02-01-2016, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
So long as the peak is leveled out, what difference does it make where it occurred? I'm not being antagonistic when I ask that, just curious as to why it would be germane. I'm only interested in what the output sounds like when it hits my ears, not where it was adjusted.

With regards to the PEQ itself... not everyone has a sound processor with an auto-EQ system like Audyseey, YPAO, MCACC, etc. In the two channel world very few people have that in their electronics chain, and even if they do some folks just flat out don't like using them because it alters the sound in a way they aren't comfortable with. In that case, the PEQ gives them the ability to tailor the sound manually.
I am not qualified to present the argument, but some claim that SUB EQ performed strictly in the digital domain (for digital sources) has less unwanted side effects on the sound - in other words, there is more to good sound than a perceived flat frequency response in the bass region or a perfect housecurve.

I understand that many dedicated 2 Ch systems will not have SUB EQ. In addition, if the source is analogue, a digital EQ processor might not be desired.

Cheers,
Jacob

PS any comments on the mono mid bass issue I have...?

Last edited by Jacob B; 02-01-2016 at 07:45 AM.
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post #22749 of 23582 Old 02-01-2016, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
I really need a processor able to manage stereo subs...!
If you really want to use them as stereo subs, it may be easier to buy an external crossover like a miniDSP or analog dbx 223, and use it to cross over to the sub arrays. That way your AVR "sees" a pair of full-range speakers (set them to "large") and will treat (compensate) as such. That is the way I ran my system for many years. It works if the subs and mains are close together so the AVR can handle them as single (L/R) speakers.

HTH - Don

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post #22750 of 23582 Old 02-01-2016, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
If you really want to use them as stereo subs, it may be easier to buy an external crossover like a miniDSP or analog dbx 223, and use it to cross over to the sub arrays. That way your AVR "sees" a pair of full-range speakers (set them to "large") and will treat (compensate) as such. That is the way I ran my system for many years. It works if the subs and mains are close together so the AVR can handle them as single (L/R) speakers.

HTH - Don
Don,
The subs are pretty close to the main speakers - right next to on the left and about a foot on the right. See picture below. Since the picture was taken, I have moved the right main speaker 1½ feet to the right.


I am considering buying the Lyngdorf TDAi 2170 to drive the main speakers and bass manage the subs. It can manage stereo subs and has a proprietary 2.2 EQ (Room Perfect). I would do exactly how you suggest: set the main speakers to large + no sub in the AVR and the connect the subs to the Lyngdorf. Then either turn off Audyssey XT32 on the AVR or set it to BYPASS FL/FR.
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/a...lifier-review/

Cheers,
Jacob

Last edited by Jacob B; 02-01-2016 at 10:59 PM.
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post #22751 of 23582 Old 02-02-2016, 09:31 PM
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Is there anyone here that is from the Pittsburgh Metro or surrounding area?

Any interest in a Pittsburgh area meet up?
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post #22752 of 23582 Old 02-03-2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
Don,
The subs are pretty close to the main speakers - right next to on the left and about a foot on the right. See picture below. Since the picture was taken, I have moved the right main speaker 1½ feet to the right.

<image elided>

I am considering buying the Lyngdorf TDAi 2170 to drive the main speakers and bass manage the subs. It can manage stereo subs and has a proprietary 2.2 EQ (Room Perfect). I would do exactly how you suggest: set the main speakers to large + no sub in the AVR and the connect the subs to the Lyngdorf. Then either turn off Audyssey XT32 on the AVR or set it to BYPASS FL/FR.
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/a...lifier-review/

Cheers,
Jacob
Hmmm... I would leave XT32 running to deal with the speakers and integration of subs to mains, your call... The external crossover is a cheap solution but only if you are using an external amplifier to drive the L/R speakers or have a pre-out/in loop on your AVR, something rare these days.

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post #22753 of 23582 Old 02-03-2016, 11:52 AM
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Hi guys,

As I mentioned before Chris Fogel, from Hyperion Sound @ ELBO Studios in Glendale, CA got an FV15HP back in June 2015 for his film mastering studio. Today we got a second order from him for a pair of F12s for a small stereo room. He is very impressed with the capabilities of the FV15HP. So I just wanted to share with you guys the list of the movies he already mastered using the FV15HP:

Creed
Spy
Trumbo
Zoolander 2
5th Wave
Ghostbusters (still in production)
Birth of a Nation (just won Sundance)
Halo 5 soundtrack (game)

Best Regards,

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post #22754 of 23582 Old 02-03-2016, 02:51 PM
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I switched to a 3.1 setup from a 5.1 one since my surround placement was poor. SQ improved overall and I get more bass from the front now (surrounds were much smaller than mains and now that info is downmixed into the mains). I also had the chance to move the sub a bit and give it more breathing room. Anyhow, my sub is playing higher now, as the measurement below shows:
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UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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post #22755 of 23582 Old 02-03-2016, 02:56 PM
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Also, I'm finding I don't need to set the sw trim as hot anymore (+2dB is plenty whereas before it was +4dB). I think the added bass comes from the surround info playing through the mains, which are much bigger and also because it now seems all bass comes from the front of the room. Since all bass is summed mono, the extra 80Hz and up bass from the mains and the sub 80Hz bass coming apparently from just the front makes it actually louder/seem louder.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N
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post #22756 of 23582 Old 02-04-2016, 09:49 AM
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The container came in today so we have L12 and LV12R back in stock!! A lot of shipping is happening today so if you are on the waiting list for any of these models most probably you will receive an UPS email with tracking number in a few hours.

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
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post #22757 of 23582 Old 02-04-2016, 07:55 PM
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Hey it's February, any updates on the prototypes? Inquiring minds want to know. I know that Rythmik is a small company where you guys wear multiple hats so I understand there is only so much you can do in a day, but having said that I do have a suggestion. On your website you should consider adding a future projects, or in the works section to keep everyone updated about new developments and possible future products. You might even find that it creates some additional buzz for your company. Anyway just a suggestion. Now back to our regularly scheduled subwoofer forum.


Regards,

RTROSE

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post #22758 of 23582 Old 02-05-2016, 05:39 PM
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I have had a couple of minor problems with my Rhythmik FV15HP - and the company's customer service has been very good in both cases. The first plate amp failed due to and issue with bad capacitors in an early manufacturing batch. I emailed them and within hours Brian Ding contacted me and determined what the issue was and decided to send me a new plate. Fast forward to last week - a year later - I called to ask for help replacing the fabric on the grill, which I suspect was attacked by one of my cats (i have no video proof, just circumstantial evidence). Brian helped me again, suggesting he could have a new grill shipped to me at cost (very affordable!). I received it yesterday. Really happy with the sub, but even happier with the support when things go wrong. Thank you Brian!!

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post #22759 of 23582 Old 02-05-2016, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Namikis View Post
I have had a couple of minor problems with my Rhythmik FV15HP - and the company's customer service has been very good in both cases. The first plate amp failed due to and issue with bad capacitors in an early manufacturing batch. I emailed them and within hours Brian Ding contacted me and determined what the issue was and decided to send me a new plate. Fast forward to last week - a year later - I called to ask for help replacing the fabric on the grill, which I suspect was attacked by one of my cats (i have no video proof, just circumstantial evidence). Brian helped me again, suggesting he could have a new grill shipped to me at cost (very affordable!). I received it yesterday. Really happy with the sub, but even happier with the support when things go wrong. Thank you Brian!!
I will second your thoughts and experiences regarding Rythmik's support of their products. Too often nowadays the customer is all but forgotten in customer service. However this is not the case with Rythmik they go out of their way to make sure the customer is the focus of their business before, during, and after the sale.

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #22760 of 23582 Old 02-05-2016, 07:26 PM
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Is there anyone here that is from the Pittsburgh Metro or surrounding area?

Any interest in a Pittsburgh area meet up?
I am in the Pitt area, but you already knew that
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post #22761 of 23582 Old 02-06-2016, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
Excellent idea. And if you get the DIY F15HP kit, you can have the enclosure made with an internal volume of up to 4 cu.ft. (the factory one is 3 cu.ft.), to maximize the output. And the enclosure can be any shape you want, great if you have space issues.
Is it normal to have such a wide range 3-4 cu. ft. in internal volume for a specific driver or is this where the servo is helping out?

I am looking to build a 15" kit as well, based on Rythmik's posted DIY plans for the DS1500 sealed, it works out to ~4.36 cu. ft for the empty cabinet. Then when you subtract for driver, amp and bracing it probably works out to the 4 cu. ft?

Internal dimension for DS1500 plans: 21 x 16.5 x 21.75 = 4.36 cu ft.

Thanks

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post #22762 of 23582 Old 02-06-2016, 08:08 PM
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You'll get higher efficiency and perhaps a bit more output in the larger enclosure.

The commercial product's enclosure size is to meet shipping requirements (per Brian) and is a compromise in performance; the servo keeps the frequency response and linear output but can't compensate for efficiency a larger enclosure provides.
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post #22763 of 23582 Old 02-09-2016, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Hmmm... I would leave XT32 running to deal with the speakers and integration of subs to mains, your call... The external crossover is a cheap solution but only if you are using an external amplifier to drive the L/R speakers or have a pre-out/in loop on your AVR, something rare these days.
If I bought the Lyngdorf TDAi2170 as mentioned, it would power the front L/R speaker. AVR would be set to Left and right = LARGE, and NO SUB.
The Lyngdorf would bass manage as well as EQ Front L/R and the two pairs of subs (stereo, i.e. 2.2), and the AVR (Denon X5200W) would bass manage and EQ (XT32) the center and all the surround speakers.

I will test it in the near future, and see if it will fix my problem of a collapsed stereo soundstage with crossover set to 80 Hz and higher (200 Hz is desired due to the two E15HP+FM8 stacks...) :-)

Cheers,
Jacob
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post #22764 of 23582 Old 02-09-2016, 06:00 PM
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Is it generally recommend to use the result from Rythmik's Subtuner to override the distance setting determined by Audyssey XT32 in my A/V receiver? I have the Rythmik L22 and a Marantz 6010 receiver

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/subtuner2.html
(I use Firefox to run the subtuner)

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post #22765 of 23582 Old 02-10-2016, 06:29 AM
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Is it generally recommend to use the result from Rythmik's Subtuner to override the distance setting determined by Audyssey XT32 in my A/V receiver? I have the Rythmik L22 and a Marantz 6010 receiver
Audyseey is good at what it does, but it's certainly not infallible (I can't comment on Rythmik's tuner because I've never gotten it to run on either of the browsers I use, Opera and IE). There are so many variables to consider that neither could be 100% accurate though. They should be used as a guide/reference, but ultimately your ears will tell you what sounds best.
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post #22766 of 23582 Old 02-10-2016, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post
Hey it's February, any updates on the prototypes? Inquiring minds want to know. I know that Rythmik is a small company where you guys wear multiple hats so I understand there is only so much you can do in a day, but having said that I do have a suggestion. On your website you should consider adding a future projects, or in the works section to keep everyone updated about new developments and possible future products. You might even find that it creates some additional buzz for your company. Anyway just a suggestion. Now back to our regularly scheduled subwoofer forum.


Regards,

RTROSE

I will do a verbal update here. I am testing the enclosure of F25. The tuning frequency turns out to be about 17% higher than that of FV15HP 1 port mode. So I need to increase the enclosure height and port length by about 12%. My goal is to get the tuning frequency to within 5% of FV15HP 1 port. It is a bit tougher because FV25 uses 3 ports. Next I will test the enclosure of FV18 which uses 2 port.
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post #22767 of 23582 Old 02-10-2016, 01:20 PM
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Hi All,

I plan on building either the 12” or 15” Rythmick using one of their kits. The good folks at Rythmik have suggested the 15” for my room and will most likely follow their advice. My indecisiveness is mainly around the size of the build and thinking a bit down the road where 2 -12” may be more of a possibility than 2 -15”

My room is 14x22x7.5 and opens up into a similar sized area. . My mains are NHT Classic 3’s which have a 6” woofer. I generally listen at low volumes levels and am certainly in the quality vs quantity camp when it comes to bass. Is there any reason for selecting the 12” ci over the 15 ci besides space considerations? Curious if any of you have upgraded from an F12 to F15?

Thanks for any guidance.
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post #22768 of 23582 Old 02-10-2016, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
I will do a verbal update here. I am testing the enclosure of F25. The tuning frequency turns out to be about 17% higher than that of FV15HP 1 port mode. So I need to increase the enclosure height and port length by about 12%. My goal is to get the tuning frequency to within 5% of FV15HP 1 port. It is a bit tougher because FV25 uses 3 ports. Next I will test the enclosure of FV18 which uses 2 port.
Will the ports be firing in the same direction as the drivers for either the fv25 or fv18?
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post #22769 of 23582 Old 02-10-2016, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bob_m10 View Post
My room is 14x22x7.5 and opens up into a similar sized area. . My mains are NHT Classic 3’s which have a 6” woofer. I generally listen at low volumes levels and am certainly in the quality vs quantity camp when it comes to bass. Is there any reason for selecting the 12” ci over the 15 ci besides space considerations? Curious if any of you have upgraded from an F12 to F15?
The room in question is over 2300 ft^3, so right off the bat most subs with a 12" driver are going to be working pretty hard. Factor in the "opens up into a similar sized area" and 15" subs become more appropriate. This assumes you're using one; if you opt for duals than 12's might not be overwhelmed.
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post #22770 of 23582 Old 02-10-2016, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
I will do a verbal update here. I am testing the enclosure of F25. The tuning frequency turns out to be about 17% higher than that of FV15HP 1 port mode. So I need to increase the enclosure height and port length by about 12%. My goal is to get the tuning frequency to within 5% of FV15HP 1 port. It is a bit tougher because FV25 uses 3 ports. Next I will test the enclosure of FV18 which uses 2 port.
Exciting news! Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing these come to fruition.

Regards,

RTROSE
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

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