Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 760 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22771 of 22783 Unread 02-10-2016, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
I will do a verbal update here. I am testing the enclosure of F25. The tuning frequency turns out to be about 17% higher than that of FV15HP 1 port mode. So I need to increase the enclosure height and port length by about 12%. My goal is to get the tuning frequency to within 5% of FV15HP 1 port. It is a bit tougher because FV25 uses 3 ports. Next I will test the enclosure of FV18 which uses 2 port.
Exciting news! Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing these come to fruition.

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #22772 of 22783 Unread Yesterday, 12:36 PM
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I have a very general sub/main integration question for the forum...

Is it best when integrating the sub and mains to
1) align the timing perfectly OR
2) is it best to tailor the timing to smooth the frequency response?

For example, let's say that there is overlap from forty to eighty hz, and that perfect time alignment creates a peak at 60 but is smooth everywhere else. However by delaying the sub I can smooth out the peak. Is it advisable to intentionally misalign the timing to improve the freq response?

The reason I ask is because it seems apparent that the benefit of multiple subs is to specifically to create the situation where peaks and valleys hit at different times thus smoothing out. But is this also true at higher bass frequencies? When does it get objectionable? Is smoother freq response always the goal or is time alignment important too? When they conflict which is most important?

Seems like something important for us to all know. All input is welcome!
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post #22773 of 22783 Unread Yesterday, 12:37 PM
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I have a very general sub/main integration question for the forum...

Is it best when integrating the sub and mains to
1) align the timing perfectly OR
2) is it best to tailor the timing to smooth the frequency response?

For example, let's say that there is overlap from forty to eighty hz, and that perfect time alignment creates a peak at 60 but is smooth everywhere else. However by delaying the sub I can smooth out the peak. Is it advisable to intentionally misalign the timing to improve the freq response?

The reason I ask is because it seems apparent that the benefit of multiple subs is to specifically to create the situation where peaks and valleys hit at different times thus smoothing out. But is this also true at higher bass frequencies? When does it get objectionable? Is smoother freq response always the goal or is time alignment important too? When they conflict which is most important?

Seems like something important for us to all know. All input is welcome!
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post #22774 of 22783 Unread Yesterday, 01:05 PM
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If timing is aligned properly then frequency response should follow and vice-versa. Fourier tells us they are the same signal whether expressed in the time or frequency domain. I am not sure how you are determining "perfect time alignment". Time delay and phase shift in the system make it (highly) likely that different phase shifts will be required at different frequencies to account for things like crossovers, physical distance, interaction with the room, etc.

The quick answer is that I would adjust for best frequency response since we hear changes in frequency response more readily than transient time events. Our ears, and brain, integrate the signals. That said, I always check impulse responses, and even with just frequency response you want to make sure you aren't wasting a bunch of power trying to feed a null.

Note time alignment also changes the relative phase, all of which impacts those peaks and valleys you hear and measure.
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post #22775 of 22783 Unread Yesterday, 02:30 PM
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pics or it did not happen

... with the F12 beside the two behemoths for size comparison Pleaaaasssseeeeeeee...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
I will do a verbal update here. I am testing the enclosure of F25. The tuning frequency turns out to be about 17% higher than that of FV15HP 1 port mode. So I need to increase the enclosure height and port length by about 12%. My goal is to get the tuning frequency to within 5% of FV15HP 1 port. It is a bit tougher because FV25 uses 3 ports. Next I will test the enclosure of FV18 which uses 2 port.
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post #22776 of 22783 Unread Yesterday, 06:37 PM
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Hey guys, I am still toying with settings and just got around to using the subtuner from Rythmik. After using the subtuner, it recommended me setting the crossover to 31hz. I was a bit confused since my preamp's bass management is set to 80hz. I guess I don't fully understand what the crossover nob does on the back of the sub. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.


For reference my gear is listed in my signature.

Equipment list:
B&W 803d, Rythmik F12SE, Emotiva XSP-1, Emotiva XPA-2, Oppo 105, Project 2Xperience Classic, Panamax M5300-PM, Panasonic 60ST60
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post #22777 of 22783 Unread Yesterday, 09:06 PM
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The lowest crossover will be used, since you used 31 hz at the subwoofer, the sub will produce 31 hz down to its lowest limit. Now if you want to use the pre-amp crossover, adjust the crossoover to the max level and control the crossover from the pre-amp. Is this is for HT, 80 hz would be a good stating point. For 2 channel audio, start at 31 hz and tweak from there


Quote:
Originally Posted by eorr23 View Post
Hey guys, I am still toying with settings and just got around to using the subtuner from Rythmik. After using the subtuner, it recommended me setting the crossover to 31hz. I was a bit confused since my preamp's bass management is set to 80hz. I guess I don't fully understand what the crossover nob does on the back of the sub. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.


For reference my gear is listed in my signature.
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post #22778 of 22783 Unread Today, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
The lowest crossover will be used, since you used 31 hz at the subwoofer, the sub will produce 31 hz down to its lowest limit. Now if you want to use the pre-amp crossover, adjust the crossoover to the max level and control the crossover from the pre-amp. Is this is for HT, 80 hz would be a good stating point. For 2 channel audio, start at 31 hz and tweak from there
Thanks qguy, I am using it for both music and movies but I care more about performance for music. Luckily its a long weekend so I will have plenty of time to play around with settings. Probably going to give REW a try for the first time as well, I am definitely excited to SEE what I am hearing.

Equipment list:
B&W 803d, Rythmik F12SE, Emotiva XSP-1, Emotiva XPA-2, Oppo 105, Project 2Xperience Classic, Panamax M5300-PM, Panasonic 60ST60
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post #22779 of 22783 Unread Today, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
If I bought the Lyngdorf TDAi2170 as mentioned, it would power the front L/R speaker. AVR would be set to Left and right = LARGE, and NO SUB.
The Lyngdorf would bass manage as well as EQ Front L/R and the two pairs of subs (stereo, i.e. 2.2), and the AVR (Denon X5200W) would bass manage and EQ (XT32) the center and all the surround speakers.

I will test it in the near future, and see if it will fix my problem of a collapsed stereo soundstage with crossover set to 80 Hz and higher (200 Hz is desired due to the two E15HP+FM8 stacks...) :-)

Cheers,
Jacob
Jacob, I hope you get the TDAI-2170, I'd love to hear how the Room Perfect worked for you, and how effective the bass EQ is.

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post #22780 of 22783 Unread Today, 12:14 PM
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I received my L12 about a week ago and have been enjoying it ever since. One of the things I have yet to fully understand though is the bass extension control.

From the website:

"The bass extension control enables the user to customize the frequency response of the low end for the best trade-off between output and extension. If set to low music, bass below 18 Hz will be filtered. The damping factor of this mode is 0.5 for the best time domain response. However, the disadvantage is slower attenuation of subsonic signals. For HT application, we recommend low-HT mode which incorporates a 3rd order highpass filter to filter out subsonic signals below 20hz. High extension setting is recommended for application where longer playback time and lower power consumption is required."

So for my understanding:
High is like party mode, use it when blaring music for hours to not overheat the amp.

What confuses me is Low HT vs Low music.



Looking at the graph, Low music has the deepest extension which would give lower bass notes for movies that actually use that spectrum right? And 99% of music (excluding pipe organs) doesn't hit down below 20hz and a slower attenuation would be less desirable for music I'd think so wouldn't the logic on these 2 be reversed? I must be missing something here and admit I'm a noob when it comes to sub tuning so please educate me.
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post #22781 of 22783 Unread Today, 01:19 PM
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Basically, you're adjusting 2 parameters at once, extension as you see in the graphs and damping/q value, which is what makes the sound cleaner and faster (lower q) or slower/boomier/more full body (higher Q).

For normal use you should pick low music or low ht, whichever sounds best to you... for high spl playback, high may be preferable.
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post #22782 of 22783 Unread Today, 01:37 PM
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I should add the low ht has the rumble filter on to limit sub 20Hz signals, which if loud enough could cause the driver to bottom out. An example would be playing Edge of Tomorrow intro at high spl. Low music might cause it to bottom out whereas low ht might not or not as easily. High mode would apply even more aggressive rumble filter to protect the driver but you lose significant low end output/extension as a result.

I'd use low music for music and possibly movies if you don't listen at high spl or you don't watch movies with lots of sub 20Hz bass.

I'd use low ht for ht use that does involve loud peaks and sub 20Hz bass.

Use high for loud music played for long periods of time, especially music that doesn't have lots of sub 20Hz content.
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post #22783 of 22783 Unread Today, 08:08 PM
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Anyone have the FVX15? Likes, dislikes?

(R&L: Infinity Beta 50) (Center: Infinity Beta C360) (Surround side & Back: Infinity IW ERS 210 x 4) (TM: Infinity ERS 110 x 2) (Sub: Def Tech SC1)
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f12g subwoofer , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub



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